Yahtzee Wrote a Book

[DayDark]

Oh here's an awesome thing:

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

tl;dr version: A better way of saying it's getting late would have been, shockingly, 'it's getting late'.

(i) Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.

(ii) Never us a long word where a short one will do.

(iii) If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

(iv) Never use the passive where you can use the active.

(v) Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.

Writing it in some over the top convoluted way like that just because you think it shows the reader how clever and creative you are is generally the wrong road to be going down unless you're spectacularly masterful at it. You're writing the book to convey your story, characters and world to the reader, not to impress them with flowery ways of describing things.

What does using that phrase actually accomplish? Does it convey any particular image of HOW the sun is setting? Or is it just setting exactly like a sun sets? No image is conveyed, no insight is gained, it's just pointless fluff that makes reading the book take a little longer and doesn't help the reader get a clearer image of what's happening in the story at all.

I think it does pretty well, I actually like the symbolism of the whole sentence, both the characteristics of the suns situation and "mood", tells that it's getting late. It creates atmosphere, It's funny I've just read this other book which also colorfully described a sunset. "As the sun sets - a ball of molten iron sinking into the chilling waters of the Diamond Sea - you catch sight of Valsinore at long last". Sure you could describe that as simply, at the sun sets, you see valsinore, but that would be plain and boring.

This is basically amateur writer mistake #1 and shows a complete misunderstanding of the entire concept of good writing.

Well what is good writing really, I didn't know that there was a standard, and usually people are very at odds about what that standard is.

The paper you link to, George Orwell seems to focus completely on expressing oneself clearly, when the goal is clarity, not entertainment or creative ways of expressing a setting. Indeed George Orwell talks specifically about the political use of the language, and how better clarity can be achieved by not over expressing yourself, when you need people to understand you as best as possible.

In Yahtzees description of the sunset, he starts by saying that the day is wearing thin, effectively making sure that the reader knows already from this what 'time' of day it is, and then proceeds to 'paint' a picture of it, or set the mood. Like a descriptive "!". If we apply George Orwells guidelines, even though they aren't IMO meant to be applied to this form of writing, Yahtzee wouldn't even be able to write that the day is wearing thin, because this is a metaphor, and someone could misunderstand it, it would lack precision.

Despite the liking ZP comment, otherwise I'm 100% behind OANST and consider him 100% correct in this thread. Not just me who thinks so, GEORGE ORWELL agrees. ;D

I didn't find it particularly amateurish, at least it wasn't boring, but than again I find that the terms, amateurish writing and good writing to blend together a little since given the lack of concrete examples.

But don't you see that this is the problem with that particular line? We have no idea what he means by it. That's not good writing.

No not really, I mean he describes it as flamboyant, as in having the characteristics that flamboyant covers.

 

[MrSpectabular]

Hey guys, we should stop this squabbling. It's not really fair to the Escapist or Yahtzee to be squabbling and arguing with each other and hijacking this thread, we should keep the comments purely about the sample chapter.

It sucks.

 

[OANST]

No not really, I mean he describes it as flamboyant, as in having the characteristics that flamboyant covers.

In what way?

 

[feather240]

I don't think this will rock the world, but I might pick it up at a library or buy it if it's cheap. To me it's like finding an amusing post, but the post goes on for a few hundred pages and you can carry it around with you. It also gets better the more you read into it. I really liked how the adventurers from early on were recycled for the argument with the mayor. I don't know why but I like little details that interlock the story.

(Hurry for above average filler novels! You can read them again, and again, and again, and still be entertained! It sure beats Redwall.)

I would agree that the first page or two are pretty terrible, but once the characters got talking I really liked it.

I agree with you. I imagine those first two pages will make more sense after reading the first chapter since they seam a little more plot centered.

 

[tautologico]

Hey guys, we should stop this squabbling. It's not really fair to the Escapist or Yahtzee to be squabbling and arguing with each other and hijacking this thread, we should keep the comments purely about the sample chapter.

It sucks.

You are an anti-fanboy. You said it yourself: you have issues with Yahtzee, to the point of registering here to post your rant. Thus, your opinion is worth exactly the same as a fanboy's opinion.

As for my opinion, I'm thinking about buying it. I like Pratchett and Adams, and although what is shown here could be better written, it is quite readable. Let's see how the rest of the text fares.

 

[DayDark]

In what way?

In a striking way, or colorful and brilliant way. The point isn't how it is flamboyant, it's that what it says. That the sign is flamboyant, I suspect is simply pointed out because it makes the fact that Johns failure to express himself more clearly where they needed to go. Is even more of a failure, given that a flashy sign tells anyone that there are more inns, that in fact it's a street dedicated to inns. So it would be obvious (because of the street name given by the flamboyant sign) to anyone, that if you were to guide someone to one of those inns, simply telling them to meet at the inn, is insanely inadequate.

edit: I think John needs a talk with George Orwell

 

[OANST]

In what way?

In a striking way, or colorful and brilliant way. The point isn't how it is flamboyant, it's that what it says. That the sign is flamboyant, I suspect is simply pointed out because it makes the fact that Johns failure to express himself more clearly where they needed to go. Is even more of a failure, given that a flashy sign tells anyone that there are more inns, that in fact it's a street dedicated to inns. So it would be obvious (because of the street name given by the flamboyant sign) to anyone, that if you were to guide someone to one of those inns, simply telling them to meet at the inn, is insanely inadequate.

edit: I think John needs a talk with George Orwell

But that doesn't answer the question of what is flamboyant about it. Is it curved in a flame like pattern? What? What is it?

 

[feather240]

For the people who say it sucks, stop complaining already and go write your own damn book about MMOs if you think you can write better.

You aren't allowed to say this anymore, no one's allowed to say this anymore, ever. Please. ):>

 

[MrSpectabular]

Hey guys, we should stop this squabbling. It's not really fair to the Escapist or Yahtzee to be squabbling and arguing with each other and hijacking this thread, we should keep the comments purely about the sample chapter.

It sucks.

You are an anti-fanboy. You said it yourself: you have issues with Yahtzee, to the point of registering here to post your rant. Thus, your opinion is worth exactly the same as a fanboy's opinion.

Oh undoubtedly, just as I said in my original tl;dr post.

My point is that whether I personally find him funny or not, or whether I dislike or like his persona, there is a lot more non-subjective evidence in this sample chapter that his writing sucks than can be gleaned from a much more subjective thing like Zero Punctuation. Like him or dislike him, the writing in this sample chapter is palpably bad. Just because I happen to notice these same naff similes in his ZP stuff just goes to validate it personally for me, is all.

Whether you personally find something funny or someone likeable is one thing. Being able to tell, subjectively, that writing is poor is another completely.

And for anyone to take offence in people harshly critiquing Yahtzee, who they like because he's a harsh critic, is bordering on the ridiculous and is beyond hypocritical. It's like Issac Hayes getting all offended when South Park had a go at the Scientologists despite being a willing participant in mocking every other faith.

Would our criticisms of Yahtzee's book be better received if we delivered them in sound file clips with the silence removed? Perhaps if we threw in some random similes involving monkeys with hand grenades or a big cock flying at us or something to make it 'witty' and 'biting'?

From what I've seen, the majority outside Escapist seem to think this book looks awful, and that Game Damage was cringe-worthy. These are his two big endeavours since Zero Punctuation, and simply go to show exactly what you get when the punctuation is added back in. Complete guff. I'm just glad I could tell it was complete guff, punctuation or no. ;D

 

[DayDark]

But that doesn't answer the question of what is flamboyant about it. Is it curved in a flame like pattern? What? What is it?

We don't know how it is flamboyant, it's given for you to imagine, but than again, why is it important? Is the signs flamboyans worth elaborating on? I think it managed what was intended.

 

[OANST]

But that doesn't answer the question of what is flamboyant about it. Is it curved in a flame like pattern? What? What is it?

We don't know how it is flamboyant, it's given for you to imagine, but than again, why is it important? Is the signs flamboyans worth elaborating on? I think it managed what was intended.

It isn't important other than to show that this guy doesn't know how to write.

 

[feather240]

The whole thing.

oh come on there's got to be somewhere in it where you went "this is poor writing, it would have been better phrased like this".

Come on, I've read this argument. They like it and won't except "it's bad" without examples. Just give some examples, don't pull a Brutus! All you have to do is explain, work them down to a point where their excuses are too elaborate to gain anyone's' support. If you can't find them then you probably just don't like the writing style and it's making you come off as a troll. Please, just give detailed examples. Tear it apart, but don't give those earlier one sentence attacks. Decimate it until it's irreparable beyond all but the most pious fanboy.

 

[DayDark]

It isn't important other than to show that this guy doesn't know how to write.

To me it almost shows the opposite. If he had elaborated on it, I would say it would take away from the point of even mentioning the sign at all, it would shift focus unto the sign itself, instead of it's message, basically he would be a worse writer, if he had gone ahead and described the sign further.

 

[OANST]

It isn't important other than to show that this guy doesn't know how to write.

To me it almost shows the opposite. If he had elaborated on it, I would say it would take away from the point of even mentioning the sign at all, it would shift focus unto the sign itself, instead of it's message, basically he would be a worse writer, if he had gone ahead and described the sign further.

You and I have a serious difference of opinion. I think we shake hands and go our separate ways at this point.

 

[DayDark]

It isn't important other than to show that this guy doesn't know how to write.

To me it almost shows the opposite. If he had elaborated on it, I would say it would take away from the point of even mentioning the sign at all, it would shift focus unto the sign itself, instead of it's message, basically he would be a worse writer, if he had gone ahead and described the sign further.

You and I have a serious difference of opinion. I think we shake hands and go our separate ways at this point.

Indeed, at least we can agree on that

 

[MrSpectabular]

I should also point out that, in the scheme of things, I'm pretty open to changing my opinion on someone or something I dislike. Perfect example would be Russell Brand. First time I saw him I thought he was king of all the unfunny pricks.

I didn't find him funny in the slightest, and everything about him just irritated the life out of me whenever I saw him. Someone I worked with said they liked him, and I couldn't believe it. "What, you like HIM?" He introduced me to his stand up, and after that point I began to appreciate him more and more, up until the point where now I can appreciate that actually he's a very clever and witty guy.

This works in reverse too.

I didn't come out of the box hating Yahtzee. I was charmed by the first couple of Zero Punctuations, and he also once strolled amongst the AGS community of which I was a a casual member for a while (though he was before my time) so I was all supportive and hoped he'd do well with it.

But I soon came to realise that it was a one joke thing, and in his pressure to keep his crown as the 'guy on the net who hates games fast with no punctuation' led him to just come up with more wildly unjustifiable or flippant reasons to hate games, my enthusiasm quickly waned. Along with the self-congratulatory posing photos and his awful and unlikable performance on Game Damage. It became abundantly clear that if he was, for example, some guy at your school, you'd probably think he was a bit of a dick. "Oh take that hat off and stop making all those pithy comments like you're Oscar Wilde, you dick". He made me hate him. I didn't want to hate him.

And it's not like I don't like that kind of humour. I love Charlie Brooker so hard I can barely convey, and there's so much crossover in their style, character, target audience and potential appeal that for Yahtzee to fail to rise a smile in me cannot purely be down to taste in humour or because I dislike grumpy misanthropic critics.

I welcome you to present me with the definitive masterpiece of his Zero Punctuation collection that will change my mind. I've changed my mind before. But unlike Russell Brand, who I just decided pretty much that I hated him purely off his first appearance on TV, I gave Yahtzee more than a fair chance, and he squandered it by revealing himself to be a one trick pony with one joke up his sleeve and a seriously out of whack ego and fanbase.

To the point where I'm reading on the Escapist 'oh Yahtzee's wrote a novel'...

Of course he has.... Of course he bloody has.

 

[tautologico]

But I soon came to realise that it was a one joke thing, and in his pressure to keep his crown as the 'guy on the net who hates games fast with no punctuation' led him to just come up with reasons to hate games, my enthusiasm quickly waned. Along with the self-congratulatory posing photos and his awful and unlikable performance on Game Damage. It became abundantly clear that if he was, for example, some guy at your school, you'd probably think he was a bit of a dick. "Oh take that hat off and stop making all those pithy comments like you're Oscar Wilde, you dick". He made me hate him. I didn't want to hate him.

Sorry, but this last part is quite funny. It's like those rapists who say "she dressed provocatively! she made me do it! it's her fault!"

I welcome you to present me with the definitive masterpiece of his Zero Punctuation collection that will change my mind. I've changed my mind before. But unlike Russell Brand, who I just decided pretty much that I hated him purely off his first appearance on TV, I gave Yahtzee more than a fair chance, and he squandered it by revealing himself to be a one trick pony with one joke up his sleeve and a seriously out of whack ego and fanbase.

I don't care very much if you like him or not. But you could start by telling us what game dear and near to your heart was slaughtered by Yahtzee to make you hate him

 

[DayDark]

He made me hate him. I didn't want to hate him.

- he said to the judge, thinking it would make him understand why he did what he did. Sorry I just had to do that

And it's not like I don't like that kind of humour. I love Charlie Brooker so hard I can barely convey, and there's so much crossover in their style, character, target audience and potential appeal that for Yahtzee to fail to rise a smile in me cannot purely be down to taste in humour or because I dislike grumpy misanthropic critics.

I welcome you to present me with the definitive masterpiece of his Zero Punctuation collection that will change my mind. I've changed my mind before. But unlike Russell Brand, who I just decided pretty much that I hated him purely off his first appearance on TV, I gave Yahtzee more than a fair chance, and he squandered it by revealing himself to be a one trick pony with one joke up his sleeve and a seriously out of whack ego and fanbase.

To the point where I'm reading on the Escapist 'oh Yahtzee's wrote a novel'...

Of course he has.... Of course he bloody has.

I don't think we can give you any masterpierce, as you've said you like that kind of humor, which means your problem really is with Yahtzee himself, it's not what he does, but more that it is him who are performing it, at least that is what I get from you.

Even if we could give you some masterpiece, it would not have a chance of changing your mind, simply because it would still be Yahtzee.

 

[MrSpectabular]

- he said to the judge, thinking it would make him understand why he did what he did. Sorry I just had to do that

Sorry, but this last part is quite funny. It's like those rapists who say "she dressed provocatively! she made me do it! it's her fault!"

Well... yeah, that's kinda what I was going for.

I don't care very much if you like him or not. But you could start by telling us what game dear and near to your heart was slaughtered by Yahtzee to make you hate him

Oh you won't find me getting all offended on a game's behalf. The only thing that winds me up more than Yahtzee is the culture of offence where people whine about someone making a tasteless joke or poking fun at someone else. Boo hoo! They insulted my home town or my football team. People who get offended by satire are the worst.

Oh no, I've got a pretty thick skin when it comes to people mocking things I like or places I'm from or opinions I have or peer groups I belong to. That's not what offends me. they are only games, and he's never reviewed anything I personally worked on (probably) so why would I care that much what he said about a particular game?

I'm not 'offended' by his opinion on games, I just value journalistic integrity somewhat and while I enjoy reading cutting reviews of bad games, as soon as your aim is to pick apart games for comedy irrespective of their quality you're on shaky ground. It's the equivalent of chasing ratings and is not a pretty thing.

An example of his poor reviewing though, would be EVE Online. I haven't played it that much because of time, and am certainly not what you could describe as a fanboy, so really I'm not bothered what he says about it, but I couldn't help notice he said (paraphrased):

"I didn't get involved in the player run corporations because they are nerdy not got enough time for it whatever"

and....

"Those people who say 'it's different from other MMO's are talking out of their arses"

DING DING. Hellllooo!

"I didn't get involved with one of the main aspects of the game that makes it different to other MMOs, but people who say it's different from other MMOs are talking out their arses"

Basically from what I can gather, he's saying is he booted it up, created a character, and zipped around on his own for a while doing the tutorial missions killing a few NPC ships, logged off then written and recorded his review of how boring it is.

Shoddy, sloppy review. Who cared? No one. Cause it was all for LOLZ.

Well it's only a bit of fun, isn't it....? not like anyone could get dragged over the coals for bad journalistic integrity for something like this, is it?

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/46811/Darkfall-Devs-Fight-Back-Against-Bad-Review

SOUNDS FAMILIAR?

Pretty much exactly the same thing Ed Zitron is accused of doing. That however, is a SCANDAL, It's okay tho Yahtzee gets away with it cause he's a 'rebel' and he does videos and no punctuation LOL, even though it was probably watched by and influenced the opinions of 10x/20x/100x/1000x the amount of people that read that Darkfall review (before the scandal, obv) and let's not dwell on the fact Ed Zitron's got more talent in his little finger.

so yeah, apart from not being funny, he also gets away with bad journalism.

 

[DayDark]

Snip

Well he isn't the escapist official reviewer, and doesn't give ratings. So really he can say everything is shit, be comepletely wrong, and still get away with it. It's not about giving the game a fair trial on all its aspects, it's simply about he's personal experience with the game. His opinion is not the Escapist opinion.

There's always two kinds of reviews on this site, there's ZP and there's the escapist magazine review.