Yay! Let's bastardize an entire culture!

[boholikeu]

I......completely agree. I can add nothing to that argument.

In fact, here's a rambling sort of rant I made about it a couple of days ago.

snip

I think you are taking the whole popular view of the holiday a bit too personally. People don't like St Patrick's Day because it's a "let's mock the Irish for being drunks day". Most people see it more as "hey the Irish really know how to party". Heck, that's probably why they holiday is so popular around the world whereas other national pride days are rarely celebrated outside their home country. So while I can understand that you want people to realize there's more to the Irish culture than the color green and alcohol, the only stereotype your breaking here is that the Irish are a bunch of wet blankets rather than a fun-loving bunch with world-wide appeal.

I have to disagree with the OP and I feel this is how the ugly 'political correctness' rears it's ugly head and does more to destroy a culture than by apparently "bastardising" it.

People are hopefully a little more open-minded than to down a pint of guiness and assume this is all that St Patrick's Day stands for. I'm just greatful we have a festival/holiday that is extremely easy-going, fun and void from controversy. You, with your Irish heritage should be greatful that your country has created an event that recognises the Irish as being generally awesome... not as a bunch of toffee-nosed, pompous, politically correct, culture-destroying people that wave their banners shouting:

"How can you celebrate our sacred St Patrick's Day in such a way? Oh the tragedy! The humanity! We Irish are offended that you have an excuse to generally let your hair down, get pissed with your mates and have a great time! (all the meanwhile helping to promote Ireland's tourism and export)"

Couldn't have said it better myself. Most countries would love to have their national pride holiday be as widely celebrated as St. Patrick's Day is.

 

[Davrel]

Just be thankful that the Irish get mocked rather than used as slave labour or exterminated in the millions.

You don't know a lot about Irish history at all do you? although I wouldn't say millions by direct action but there have been millions altogether over the years.

You're actually comparing the Irish experience to the slave trade and the holocaust on near equal terms?
Excuse me whilst I un-flabber my gast.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I......completely agree. I can add nothing to that argument.

In fact, here's a rambling sort of rant I made about it a couple of days ago.

I think that suggesting that the Irish are their own race is pretty obscene.

It's mostly just a marketing ploy. Guinness(who do more or less all of the advertising)sales must be tremendous.

 

[RamirezDoEverything]

In Ireland, the holiday is quite respected, but as an American holiday, it's just a sepcial day to get ****faced drunk and not be looked down upon.

 

[Estarc]

I can't say I care one way or the other. If not for this thread, I wouldn't even know it was anything other than a normal day.

 

[omega 616]

If you think about it though most holidays are messed up these days or totally made up.

Xmas has turned into a major expense were it's all about getting and receiving gifts.

Easter is just a day off to eat loads of more expensive chocolate.

How many people these days are actually religious yet all of them "celebrate" these days, we all buy and expect things on them days. I think if the next time these days happen and you get nothing you would be pretty disappointed.

Mothers/fathers day and valentines day is a week or two were the prices of flowers, chocolate and cards gets increased.

The vast majority also get drunk on these holidays which always leads to problems of some kind

 

[omega 616]

Hail to the snip

I got into a fight the other day with an American who wouldn't stop calling me a peasant and a leprechaun. After I told him to go fuck himself, he punched me in the stomach. It went on from there. Just an example.

Anyway, it's not that I have a problem with celebrating the Irish by drinking, more that I have a problem with just exploiting the whole principle of Irishness as an excuse to get drunk. Similar as they may sound, there is a difference.

With the first, you acknowledge that the Irish do drink and party a lot and do much the same, but always remembering that it is an Irish day and you're doing this to celebrate Ireland and all that.

However, with the second, you don't care about Ireland at all, you see the day as nothing but a 'get wasted' day. Which sadly, the day seems to be becoming.

Frankly, I wish they didn't celebrate it worldwide, the amount of annoying and sometimes violent tourists it brings isn't a good thing for anyone but the retail industry. I think that St.Patricks day is actually eroding the perception of Irish culture in the rest of the world. I'm not saying that you can prevent that, but it's weird encouraging it with the festival that paints us as a bunch of leprechauns and drunks.

I hope you kicked his ass.

Ireland is widely only associated with alcohol, although England is quickly getting the same association.

I don't "celebrate" St. Patrick's days and I am half Irish.

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

It's a cultural celebration with ties to religion. Plus, why do you need to be so patronizing? Do you have no convictions? No passionate beliefs? If you don't, then you are a truly empty individual. If you do, then you are a hypocrite.

And you, sir, are one of those people who's "proud of their culture/nation/whatever."

(That is a bad thing.)

And why is that? Are you one of those apathetic people who coast along with no real opinion on anything? I'm not preaching racial superiority here, just base-line respect.

snip

In all honesty mate you're over reacting a bit. Every holiday has been bastardised from its original purpose. Christmas for example. It's nothing remotely what it was originally about in the pagan relgion before christianity stole it and bastardised it which was then further bastardised by modern culture.

Easter is another one, it didnt start as eggs and chocolate did it? No.

Niether did halloween start as dressing up in costumes and begging for candy, niether did new years start on january first (the roman started that one apparently). So far the only western holiday that basically the same sinc eit began is Guy Fawkes night. Bonfire and fireworks to represent his attempt to blow up parliment.

So yeah...bit pointless griping about one minor holiday thats been relatively recently bastardised when theres others that were fiddled with way before it.

Don't get me started on those "celebrations". The treatment of Saint Patrick's day is tied-in to a common practice of marginalizing people. What has happened to my other days of significance (Christmas and Easter) is terrible, but not being discussed here.

*overblown call to arms

Hello. My name is Ryan O'Carolan. I'm Irish. The proper sort - one who's lived in Ireland, not one of the Americans who are 1/16th Irish by blood, wear green and only drink Guinness when they're in Eire.

*snip*

Well, I have a great deal of ties to The Republic and The North, and I have only ever met two Irish drunks, one of which was a wino, neither of which are related to me. This is also a problem, you'll never catch me saying "All Canadians do (X)", because the only thins all Canadians do is breathe.

Ok, first understand that every holiday is an invented holiday. Someone, somewhere, at some time, invented it. A holiday (like Christmas) might be enshrined in millennia of tradition, but it's no less an invented holiday than Kwanza. Given that basic holiday truth, does this invented holiday of Saint Patrick's day basically work well or not? Should we embrace it, leave it alone or actively campaign against it?

*snip*

The YouTube video you linked to was somewhat funny, but getting drunk and puking all over the place isn't what Saint Patrick's Day is (or should be) about. Not to mention, it's not about pinching either.

Just to simplify, I'll number these responses:

1) The problem isn't that people are enjoying it, it's that people are enjoying it for completely wrong reasons, and they have accepted all of the stereotypes that go with it, and all of the other perverted Irish iconography they see all year.

2) Alright, I've addressed the "But other holidays..." argument about three times now, so yeah.

3) Well, that's kinda the point: acting like an idiot under the guise of celebrating others culture and heritage.

4) You know, "Big Willie"? As in Wilhelm II? Last Kaiser of Germany? Was still held in high regard even by the Nazis?

5) No, it really was bad. It was the equivalent of the whole "Toora Loora Loora, diddly dee, potatoes!" shtick, but more centric around Italian restaurants (which I also hate; I don't care who cooks my food, or what its childhood was like, If I want a cheeseburger and some rice, I shouldn't have to go to two different restaurants) hanging up stupid looking Dollar Store "decorations", some of which I swear looked like re-purposed anti-Japanese propaganda posters. It was bad.

6) I agree.

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

Boo fucking hoo OP. I'm sick of the conceded shit here. "Look at me! I'm better then the rest of the country because I point out the obvious!"
HEY! While were at it, let's ***** about Christmas, Easter, and Halloween!
And you know what? I'm Irish too! But do I whine and ***** about fucking JOKES!? NO. Because every country gets it! HELL! America makes fun of itself! And even if America DIDN'T insult itself. Every FUCKING day I see at least one America bashing post! So you know what? If your too touchy to take a joke, why not go live in a cave where nothing can ever insult you again. Maybe while your there, you could create a "perfect" society where everyone is the same and can't be made fun of! Where everyone gets equally paid and is ruled by the government. OH WAIT. IT'S CALLED FUCKING COMMUNISM!
Your right, culture doesn't stay the same. But if it did, we would be one of 2 things:
A: Cavemen
B: Non existent, the forbidden apple never would have been eaten.
So, fuck you OP. I'm sick of this shit. And this goes to anyone who wants to make another rant thread about ANYTHING remotely like this.

Premièrement, mon ami, je suis Canadien. Secondly, I've already adressed the treatment of other holidays. Thirdly, I'm not responsible for the America bashing, and when I see it, I speak out against it. Furthermore, it's not *a* joke, it's a perception that has been perpetuated by ignorance and disrespect.

Also, there's nothing wrong with Communsim. There has never been a bad system of government, only bad leaders.

Plus, you should learn to stay calm. I might have my beliefs, but you'll never see me flying off the wall about them (the original post was a rant, but not the "LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE!" kind).

Just ignoring the entire history of Saint Patrick's Day, because most people who "celebrate" this holiday are exactly that: Ignorant, be honest, Saint Patrick's Day has become an even greater abomination every year.

I understand that the very origin of the day was a "day off" from Lent, but there's another point: How many of the people who love today so much were actually participating in Lent? How many even go to Church? How many even believe in any type of faith?

This whole practice sickens me. If I were to dress-up in an Uncle Sam outfit, get drunk on piss-quality red beer with white foam and a blue cup, go parading down Main Street singing "The Stars and Stripes Forever", and basically act like a hooligan, all in the name of Martin Luther King Jr. Day, I'd get thrown in the loony bin after getting out of jail.

What mainly pisses me off is the total disrespect for another culture, and it's certainly not just today. The Irish in particular are on top of the list of people who it's apparently alright to openly mock and marginalize, which is painful on a personal level, seeing as I'm a Canadian, another group in the top-list, with immediate Irish heritage. And it's even accepted in media! If I were to come out with a brand of breakfast sausages called "Big Willie's", with a circa 1917 caricature of a German as the mascot, I'd be sued out of business before you could say "Ludendorff".

It's spreading, too. I noticed this past Lunar New Year that there were a few Chinese-centric instances of exploitative practices going on in my local community.



This is a rant, but one I fully stand behind. Maybe if we want to show the world that we people who play Video Games aren't as baseless and immoral as they mock and marginalize us as, we could start a movement of "Absolute Legitimate Equality", and denounce these filthy practices.



Seeing as I'm posting this to a forum, I fully expect a response, and am fully anticipating backlash, so do your worst. Oh, and if on the off-chance you're not here to bash me, here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ocpv5EtokY

Start by demanding something be done about that (yes, this was in part "inspired" by that video).

I appreciate your argument, and your passion for the respectful representation of Irish culture. A lot of my Irish relatives share your chagrin with the way St. Paddy's day seems to have been marginalized. As an American-Irish, I would like to pose a counter-argument. I think St. Paddy's day is a great opportunity to share the history of my ancestors with people that are going out to celebrate, even if they don't necessarily know why. I find that folks in the spirit are very receptive to me when I ask them if they would like to know why St. Paddy's day exists. Especially if they come from a culture that has never heard of St. Patrick's Day. (I live near San Francisco. It seems that the largest body of people that don't know about St. Patrick's day in my neck of the woods are recent immigrants to California from the Asian countries. I have yet to meet a drunk Asian homie or homette on St. Patrick's Day that isn't keen to hear what it's all about.)

Well then you're lucky. It wouldn't be as bad if it was just a once-in-a-while little jab in the name of good fun, with people actually willing to learn a little something about the culture in question. But you must admit, your buddies are definitely a minority in their sentiment.

 

[boholikeu]

Hail to the snip

I got into a fight the other day with an American who wouldn't stop calling me a peasant and a leprechaun. After I told him to go fuck himself, he punched me in the stomach. It went on from there. Just an example.

Well, I'm sorry that you had to deal with some random idiot, but I can tell you that if you were at one of the US St. Patrick's Day celebrations he would've gotten his ass handed to him by the whole crowd of revelers (well, unless you instigated the whole think by complaining about partying, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here).

Anyway, it's not that I have a problem with celebrating the Irish by drinking, more that I have a problem with just exploiting the whole principle of Irishness as an excuse to get drunk. Similar as they may sound, there is a difference.

With the first, you acknowledge that the Irish do drink and party a lot and do much the same, but always remembering that it is an Irish day and you're doing this to celebrate Ireland and all that.

However, with the second, you don't care about Ireland at all, you see the day as nothing but a 'get wasted' day. Which sadly, the day seems to be becoming.

Dunno if you saw my earlier post, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you with Cinco De Mayo in America. Yes, it's annoying when frat boys use a national holiday as just another reason to get smashed, but there are two ways you can deal with this: 1) You can be "that guy" and lay a guilt trip on everyone when people are just trying to have a good time 2) You can try to sway the tone of the festivities yourself and inform people about your culture in the process. Quote some Joyce (it goes so well with alcohol anyway), speak some Celtic, or teach people a traditional song. Most people will be pretty receptive to stuff like that, and I can tell you from experience that it will leave a much better impression than just complaining about other people's ignorance. So if you really feel like people are reducing your culture down to green and leprechauns, help expand their knowledge a bit (cause it's not going to just happen by itself).

Frankly, I wish they didn't celebrate it worldwide, the amount of annoying and sometimes violent tourists it brings isn't a good thing for anyone but the retail industry. I think that St.Patricks day is actually eroding the perception of Irish culture in the rest of the world. I'm not saying that you can prevent that, but it's weird encouraging it with the festival that paints us as a bunch of leprechauns and drunks.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but as I mentioned above I really think the "this holiday is ours" mindset is much more detrimental. People only associate leprechauns and drunkenness with St. Patrick's Day because they don't know any better. If this irritates you, it's up to you to inform them of the truth because complaining about it only makes you look like a killjoy.

 

[boholikeu]

Well then you're lucky. It wouldn't be as bad if it was just a once-in-a-while little jab in the name of good fun, with people actually willing to learn a little something about the culture in question. But you must admit, your buddies are definitely a minority in their sentiment.

His buddies are hardly the minority. Most people at parties are totally willing to learn more about another culture from a "pure blood" provided you aren't talking down to them or being preachy. If you've found a lot of resistance to this in the past I would suggest you take a second look at how you're trying to "inform" the ignorant, because frankly if it's anything like your original post I'm not surprised that people weren't being receptive.

 

[tzimize]

I for one think its ok to mock more or less everyone. You're not special, you're just mocked like tons of other things in life. Stop taking things so seriously. If you want to celebrate a "dignified" St. Patricks day (I dont even know what it is tbh) do so, and let other people act like asses if they want to.

As long as anyone is not injured go nuts, be stupid, but dont expect me to respect you.

edit: grammar.

 

[aaronmcc]

I'm Irish and if I had a pound for every time I had to hear a potato-related joke I would be VERY VERY rich. But at the end of the day I don't really care and a lot of the joking is just good clean fun. The episode of Family Guy where they show you Ireland before the discovery of alcohol as a super futuristic space age society was hilarious.

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

Well then you're lucky. It wouldn't be as bad if it was just a once-in-a-while little jab in the name of good fun, with people actually willing to learn a little something about the culture in question. But you must admit, your buddies are definitely a minority in their sentiment.

His buddies are hardly the minority. Most people at parties are totally willing to learn more about another culture from a "pure blood" provided you aren't talking down to them or being preachy. If you've found a lot of resistance to this in the past I would suggest you take a second look at how you're trying to "inform" the ignorant, because frankly if it's anything like your original post I'm not surprised that people weren't being receptive.

I don't talk down to people. In my whole life I've only ever had one person ask me anything to do with Ireland that didn't involve a stereotype. I understand that it's a matter of experience and perception, but that's also a point to counter yours: Just because you have been lucky enough to not deal with these idiots, doesn't mean they're not the majority.