Yay! Let's bastardize an entire culture!

[boholikeu]

I do that too, in real life. However, not as much as I probably should. I'll do it more often.

I don't think the holiday is exclusively Irish, I just wish it wouldn't put Irish people in such a bad light. I mean, sure, we do drink a lot and are good at partying, which is sometimes an admirable quality, but if it's the only quality you have, as many pieces of media has portrayed it, then it stops being a quality.

Anyway, I know my argument is deeply flawed, but it's just a personal diatribe I have, being an Irish nationalist and a person who'd like to consider themselves in touch with their own culture.

You're definitely right about the media, but they hardly portray anyone in a good light. Real people and experiences are always much more effective to sway people's opinions, so I really think you'll see a difference once you start informing people more often than simply dismissing them as annoying.

I don't talk down to people. In my whole life I've only ever had one person ask me anything to do with Ireland that didn't involve a stereotype. I understand that it's a matter of experience and perception, but that's also a point to counter yours: Just because you have been lucky enough to not deal with these idiots, doesn't mean they're not the majority.

Well, there's your problem right there. You're waiting for people to ask you about it. Of course someone that is ignorant about a culture is going to assume there's nothing more to it than leprechauns and four-leaf clovers. The very definition of ignorance is that you don't know about something. How are they supposed to ask about something they don't know even exists?

Seriously, if you try volunteering info about your culture I think you'll be surprised at how much people are get into it (particularly if they are already drunk to begin with). So long as your tone is more "actually, this is what we Irish like to do to celebrate our culture" rather than "your doing it wrong", people will usually be pretty interested in what you have to say.

Also, I'd just like to add that I have encountered plenty of people that reduce my culture's holidays down to nothing more than stereotypes. My point is that it's up to you how to deal with it. You can ***** about it (but that will only make you look like a wet blanket and it won't change anyone's mind about celebrating the holiday), or you can use the situation as a learning opportunity, teach some people about REAL Irish culture, and maybe make some new friends in the process.

Most holidays are mere shadows of their former selves. It's not exclusive to St. Patrick's day, as others have mentioned.

There isn't really anything that can be done about it, since in reality people do not care about holidays. They really don't. Very few people actually celebrate holidays for their intended purpose, while the rest use it as an excuse to get wasted, break things, get a day off, or buy useless shit.

I don't agree with that mentality like the rest of the forumers do. Allowing perpetual ignorance is why our society is in this sorry state.

Well really, the OP and others that are against outsiders celebrating St. Patrick's Day are the ones supporting perpetual ignorance here. The holiday is a perfect chance to teach people about the culture beyond simple stereotypes, but rather than doing so they just sit and complain that people are having a good time.

 

[Sneaklemming]

Just ignoring the entire history of Saint Patrick's Day, because most people who "celebrate" this holiday are exactly that: Ignorant, be honest, Saint Patrick's Day has become an even greater abomination every year.

I understand that the very origin of the day was a "day off" from Lent, but there's another point: How many of the people who love today so much were actually participating in Lent? How many even go to Church? How many even believe in any type of faith?

This whole practice sickens me. If I were to dress-up in an Uncle Sam outfit, get drunk on piss-quality red beer with white foam and a blue cup, go parading down Main Street singing "The Stars and Stripes Forever", and basically act like a hooligan, all in the name of Martin Luther King Jr. Day, I'd get thrown in the loony bin after getting out of jail.

What mainly pisses me off is the total disrespect for another culture, and it's certainly not just today. The Irish in particular are on top of the list of people who it's apparently alright to openly mock and marginalize, which is painful on a personal level, seeing as I'm a Canadian, another group in the top-list, with immediate Irish heritage. And it's even accepted in media! If I were to come out with a brand of breakfast sausages called "Big Willie's", with a circa 1917 caricature of a German as the mascot, I'd be sued out of business before you could say "Ludendorff".

It's spreading, too. I noticed this past Lunar New Year that there were a few Chinese-centric instances of exploitative practices going on in my local community.



This is a rant, but one I fully stand behind. Maybe if we want to show the world that we people who play Video Games aren't as baseless and immoral as they mock and marginalize us as, we could start a movement of "Absolute Legitimate Equality", and denounce these filthy practices.



Seeing as I'm posting this to a forum, I fully expect a response, and am fully anticipating backlash, so do your worst. Oh, and if on the off-chance you're not here to bash me, here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ocpv5EtokY

Start by demanding something be done about that (yes, this was in part "inspired" by that video).

Have you actually ever been to Ireland? Met an Irishman allow me to re-iterate what happened the last time I spent st pats day in ireland we went out got fucking drunk, pubs were full, everyone there was out of their fucking arse. No one and i repeat no one celebrates fuckign lent in bloody Ireland I can assure you it's a day off work for them and thats it.

Yknow what i do for Burns day, fuck all. Culture is not about sticking to the fucking letter it's ingrained on people if you want to celbrate something in a different way who gives a bloody toss how do you think cultures even came about.

Well, first of all, I have been to Ireland, many times, and I have met a fine and diverse group of people every time. You're just as bad as the rest, using barely any information to formulate an opinion. And culture is the distinction between the way people act and behave based on region, so if everyone acted differently, culture wouldn't have ever came about.

While that guy above you might not have made his argument in a clear fashion, I can confirm, as someone from Ireland that Irish society is almost completely secular from the age of 30 down. There are good reasons for it; The disgrace of the church, and the rise in wealth. Whether or not its a good thing is for another discussion.

So in Ireland it is just a day to have a few more pints then usual, and a day off work. That's it. That is the extent of it. St. Patricks day is no more then a national holiday. It's not defined as a break from lent, its defined as a national holiday.

If you want to talk about Irish culture we can talk about how it was all created in the late 1800s as part of an ethnic revival.

Edit; by someone from Ireland, I mean that I am an Irish citizen, born and raised there. I have an Irish-european passport etc.

 

[Wardnath]

What mainly pisses me off is the total disrespect for another culture, and it's certainly not just today. The Irish in particular are on top of the list of people who it's apparently alright to openly mock and marginalize, which is painful on a personal level, seeing as I'm a Canadian, another group in the top-list, with immediate Irish heritage. And it's even accepted in media! If I were to come out with a brand of breakfast sausages called "Big Willie's", with a circa 1917 caricature of a German as the mascot, I'd be sued out of business before you could say "Ludendorff".

You have to bear in mind that most cultures are mocked openly. Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Scotland, America, Canada, Ireland, Russia, China, Japan. I'm sure you can think of stereotypes to go with all of them.
If it were just that I'd say shut up and stop bitching, but you are right. The fact that there is a public holiday dedicated to reinforcing the stereotype is just bullshit. And I can sympathise, I live in Australia.
You know.
G'day mate. Shrimps. Barbies. Ocker. Shiela.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is that there aren't that many cultures that it isn't acceptable to mock, and these are the cultures that have faced some sort of mass discrimination in the past. That's why you can't say black people in america live off fried chicken and watermelon, but you can say that people from Texas all have eleven toes and fuck their sisters.

Actually, the stereotype going around here lately is that we live in Soviet Australia, last I heard.

Because the filter has 100% Parliament approval, and is going through first thing tomorrow.

Wait, what?

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Just be thankful that the Irish get mocked rather than used as slave labour or exterminated in the millions.

You don't know a lot about Irish history at all do you? although I wouldn't say millions by direct action but there have been millions altogether over the years.

You're actually comparing the Irish experience to the slave trade and the holocaust on near equal terms?
Excuse me whilst I un-flabber my gast.

Yes I am and in fact oppression of the Irish went on for twice as long as the slave trade of black people in the Western World and there was around 10mil in Ireland now we have 4.5mil roughly although some of that was lost to emmigration. So yes I would like to compare the treatment of the Irish to the treatment of the African slaves and Jews. Do you even know what the penal laws were?

 

[ajb924]

Boo fucking hoo OP. I'm sick of the conceded shit here. "Look at me! I'm better then the rest of the country because I point out the obvious!"
HEY! While were at it, let's ***** about Christmas, Easter, and Halloween!
And you know what? I'm Irish too! But do I whine and ***** about fucking JOKES!? NO. Because every country gets it! HELL! America makes fun of itself! And even if America DIDN'T insult itself. Every FUCKING day I see at least one America bashing post! So you know what? If your too touchy to take a joke, why not go live in a cave where nothing can ever insult you again. Maybe while your there, you could create a "perfect" society where everyone is the same and can't be made fun of! Where everyone gets equally paid and is ruled by the government. OH WAIT. IT'S CALLED FUCKING COMMUNISM!
Your right, culture doesn't stay the same. But if it did, we would be one of 2 things:
A: Cavemen
B: Non existent, the forbidden apple never would have been eaten.
So, fuck you OP. I'm sick of this shit. And this goes to anyone who wants to make another rant thread about ANYTHING remotely like this.

I'm so sick of people saying that Communists can't take a joke. Communists are as funny as any other political group!!

Seriously, how did Communism wind up in that rant? I was with you up until that point.

Ahhh, I was tired and when I rant I tend to go a BIT off the wall... But I think this was my reasoning.
The OP was sick of the Irish culture being bashed, I suggest he go create his own society where everyone was equal so there was no room for insults. From there I went to Communism. Not my brightest idea, but sure as hell ain't my dumbest either.

 

[Nifarious]

It's like participating in christmas when you're not pagan, or playing Japanese "games" when you're not Japanese, or eating tandoori chicken when you're not from the Middle East, or celebrating Chinese New Year when you're not Chinese.

In other words...

It's NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL.

Does your culture exist in this global age? Then we all have a right to it, and for that matter, it's not your culture; you can't own an idea, despite how much some people (for example, those who try to make their software proprietary) wish otherwise.

Yes.

I regret having taken the time to scan through this post at all. Banality manifests itself in a plethora of ways and NOTHING IS SACRED. Until you figure out how to cope with the inanity of other people, I suggest you keep your childish lamenting about people who don't play according to your rules to yourself. This sort of ranting does more harm than the throngs that throw themselves into a holiday just because everyone else is.

And if your stuffiness is focused here because of your religion, then I'll point you to Jonah who was disciplined by God for being cantankerous about his neighbor rather than opening his religion to them. Imagining your god writing a post like this makes him the biggest joke possible. Moreover, it throws calumny upon all creation, both the good and the banal.

High and mighty my ass.

 

[ajb924]

Boo fucking hoo OP. I'm sick of the conceded shit here. "Look at me! I'm better then the rest of the country because I point out the obvious!"
HEY! While were at it, let's ***** about Christmas, Easter, and Halloween!
And you know what? I'm Irish too! But do I whine and ***** about fucking JOKES!? NO. Because every country gets it! HELL! America makes fun of itself! And even if America DIDN'T insult itself. Every FUCKING day I see at least one America bashing post! So you know what? If your too touchy to take a joke, why not go live in a cave where nothing can ever insult you again. Maybe while your there, you could create a "perfect" society where everyone is the same and can't be made fun of! Where everyone gets equally paid and is ruled by the government. OH WAIT. IT'S CALLED FUCKING COMMUNISM!
Your right, culture doesn't stay the same. But if it did, we would be one of 2 things:
A: Cavemen
B: Non existent, the forbidden apple never would have been eaten.
So, fuck you OP. I'm sick of this shit. And this goes to anyone who wants to make another rant thread about ANYTHING remotely like this.

Premièrement, mon ami, je suis Canadien. Secondly, I've already adressed the treatment of other holidays. Thirdly, I'm not responsible for the America bashing, and when I see it, I speak out against it. Furthermore, it's not *a* joke, it's a perception that has been perpetuated by ignorance and disrespect.

Also, there's nothing wrong with Communsim. There has never been a bad system of government, only bad leaders.

Plus, you should learn to stay calm. I might have my beliefs, but you'll never see me flying off the wall about them (the original post was a rant, but not the "LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE!" kind).

Just ignoring the entire history of Saint Patrick's Day, because most people who "celebrate" this holiday are exactly that: Ignorant, be honest, Saint Patrick's Day has become an even greater abomination every year.

I understand that the very origin of the day was a "day off" from Lent, but there's another point: How many of the people who love today so much were actually participating in Lent? How many even go to Church? How many even believe in any type of faith?

This whole practice sickens me. If I were to dress-up in an Uncle Sam outfit, get drunk on piss-quality red beer with white foam and a blue cup, go parading down Main Street singing "The Stars and Stripes Forever", and basically act like a hooligan, all in the name of Martin Luther King Jr. Day, I'd get thrown in the loony bin after getting out of jail.

What mainly pisses me off is the total disrespect for another culture, and it's certainly not just today. The Irish in particular are on top of the list of people who it's apparently alright to openly mock and marginalize, which is painful on a personal level, seeing as I'm a Canadian, another group in the top-list, with immediate Irish heritage. And it's even accepted in media! If I were to come out with a brand of breakfast sausages called "Big Willie's", with a circa 1917 caricature of a German as the mascot, I'd be sued out of business before you could say "Ludendorff".

It's spreading, too. I noticed this past Lunar New Year that there were a few Chinese-centric instances of exploitative practices going on in my local community.



This is a rant, but one I fully stand behind. Maybe if we want to show the world that we people who play Video Games aren't as baseless and immoral as they mock and marginalize us as, we could start a movement of "Absolute Legitimate Equality", and denounce these filthy practices.



Seeing as I'm posting this to a forum, I fully expect a response, and am fully anticipating backlash, so do your worst. Oh, and if on the off-chance you're not here to bash me, here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ocpv5EtokY

Start by demanding something be done about that (yes, this was in part "inspired" by that video).

I appreciate your argument, and your passion for the respectful representation of Irish culture. A lot of my Irish relatives share your chagrin with the way St. Paddy's day seems to have been marginalized. As an American-Irish, I would like to pose a counter-argument. I think St. Paddy's day is a great opportunity to share the history of my ancestors with people that are going out to celebrate, even if they don't necessarily know why. I find that folks in the spirit are very receptive to me when I ask them if they would like to know why St. Paddy's day exists. Especially if they come from a culture that has never heard of St. Patrick's Day. (I live near San Francisco. It seems that the largest body of people that don't know about St. Patrick's day in my neck of the woods are recent immigrants to California from the Asian countries. I have yet to meet a drunk Asian homie or homette on St. Patrick's Day that isn't keen to hear what it's all about.)

Well then you're lucky. It wouldn't be as bad if it was just a once-in-a-while little jab in the name of good fun, with people actually willing to learn a little something about the culture in question. But you must admit, your buddies are definitely a minority in their sentiment.

Alright, I wouldn't argue if you hadn't said this in that post.
"There's never been a bad system of government."
Yep, so, Dictatorship works 100% well as long as a "nice guy" takes over?
And Communism IS a bad system. This isn't a thread about Communism though, so in fear of getting worse then a probation, I will not point out all of it's flaws.
And I'm sorry I missed those parts of your post. I was a bit pissed after reading the topic name. And if it isn't a joke, then take it as one. If you laugh about it, guess what happens? It becomes a joke. If you can't learn to laugh about it, just ignore it.

 

[uncle-ellis]

Maybe it's celebrated in Ireland because they want to get piss drunk with a legitimate excuse for getting out of work?

now usually I would insult you for saying my ancestors are drunken slackers.

unfortunately you're completely right.

 

[Davrel]

Just be thankful that the Irish get mocked rather than used as slave labour or exterminated in the millions.

You don't know a lot about Irish history at all do you? although I wouldn't say millions by direct action but there have been millions altogether over the years.

You're actually comparing the Irish experience to the slave trade and the holocaust on near equal terms?
Excuse me whilst I un-flabber my gast.

Yes I am and in fact oppression of the Irish went on for twice as long as the slave trade of black people in the Western World and there was around 10mil in Ireland now we have 4.5mil roughly although some of that was lost to emmigration. So yes I would like to compare the treatment of the Irish to the treatment of the African slaves and Jews. Do you even know what the penal laws were?

Oppression/occupation of a state is somewhat different to enforced slavery of a race or the forced extermination of a race - (although admittedly there was a religious aspect involved in the case of Ireland).

Furthermore: the Irish potato famine. Between 1845 and 52 alone the population dropped by roughly 25% with approximately 1 million emigrating and 1 million dying from famine (note: not dying from oppression, genocide, or slavery). Thats a third of your population drop in 7 years, when you take into account the fact that Irish emigration had been going on since the early 18th Century, your figures seem less than water-tight.

As for the penal laws, they only had an effect on the general populous after 1800; the effect being poverty as a method to remove catholics from power. Again: not slavery or genocide.

I'm not by any means saying that nothing bad has ever happened to the Irish, but really, the comparison you make is disgusting...and just factually wrong. And thats it - I wont be replying/derailing this thread any further.

 

[Jenova65]

It's like participating in christmas when you're not pagan

It is arguable whether it is in fact the Christians who pinched the holiday from pagans in the first place (google it) I only point this out since it is a debatable thing and not by any means cut and dried!
I am not passing an opinion either way.

 

[electric discordian]

Another way to look at this, Patron Saints never come from the country they represent and seem to have done questionable things. Patrick the patron saint of sectarian violence, the man who saved Ireland from it's Pagan ways and ushered in hundreds of years of war over whose particular flavour of god is correct. He also got rid of the snakes, a job which given Ireland's climate must have taken all of three seconds.

St George was a I believe a Persian or a Turk who was hung drawn and quartered during the second crusade which was basically religious genocide by any other name, in order to make more money for the church.

Wales and Scotland I'm sorry I know little about! I'm English and as such will no doubt be accused of being responsible for the troubles in Ireland. Let's not get into that!

There are many things to be proud of the saints seem not to be amongst them on the grounds of historical evidence.

OT I hate the way Samhain has become over commercial!

 

[oldmanwynter]

Oh I thought this thread was going to be about Japan

Lol! I could name at least 10 different cultures this thread could be about.

OT: I don't even like holidays that much, save the vacation time. As has been said before, nowadays holidays are just and excuse to get drunk, and I deplore alcohol. So...

 

[Risingblade]

I completely forgot about this day...

 

[breadlord]

And it's even accepted in media!

The media accepts everything. If they see a man talking to his boss that is a woman, the media says he's having an affair with his wife. Plus, since he's telling the truth, the lie detector crushes a mans hope. Then the media craves at their success because they are "smart investigator."

The media is this culture. The only reason why you would be thrown in jail, with your scenarios is because the media is biased, and can't think for themselves. So if any major changes happen, the culture would try and crush it because they hate learning. By using the media.

The true fact that we have to establish is not to say stuff and try change to be sent into the dark ages, but rather make our own country without those people, and give suggestions. If they decline it, then we could say to the survivors to a nuclear holocaust, that we were smart enough survive through, "We told you so."

 

[Ninjamedic]

Just ignoring the entire history of Saint Patrick's Day, because most people who "celebrate" this holiday are exactly that: Ignorant, be honest, Saint Patrick's Day has become an even greater abomination every year.

You give people an excuse to get drunk (ie any holiday) and you can forget tradition. The simple fact of the matter is that people generally just don't care about the traditions of "Culture X" but they will gladly celebrate their holidays.

Its nothing new either, take a look at Christmas. Thats been constantly changed since the Victorian era and earlier.

Also, the general Xenophobia/mocking of certain nations will continue as long as there are different nations: whilst it is unfair and I don't (entirely) approve of it, there is nothing you can do about it.

Just be thankful that the Irish get mocked rather than used as slave labour or exterminated in the millions.

The ninteenth century wasn't good to us.........

 

[JimmerDunda]

Just ignoring the entire history of Saint Patrick's Day, because most people who "celebrate" this holiday are exactly that: Ignorant, be honest, Saint Patrick's Day has become an even greater abomination every year.

I understand that the very origin of the day was a "day off" from Lent, but there's another point: How many of the people who love today so much were actually participating in Lent? How many even go to Church? How many even believe in any type of faith?

This whole practice sickens me. If I were to dress-up in an Uncle Sam outfit, get drunk on piss-quality red beer with white foam and a blue cup, go parading down Main Street singing "The Stars and Stripes Forever", and basically act like a hooligan, all in the name of Martin Luther King Jr. Day, I'd get thrown in the loony bin after getting out of jail.

What mainly pisses me off is the total disrespect for another culture, and it's certainly not just today. The Irish in particular are on top of the list of people who it's apparently alright to openly mock and marginalize, which is painful on a personal level, seeing as I'm a Canadian, another group in the top-list, with immediate Irish heritage. And it's even accepted in media! If I were to come out with a brand of breakfast sausages called "Big Willie's", with a circa 1917 caricature of a German as the mascot, I'd be sued out of business before you could say "Ludendorff".

It's spreading, too. I noticed this past Lunar New Year that there were a few Chinese-centric instances of exploitative practices going on in my local community.



This is a rant, but one I fully stand behind. Maybe if we want to show the world that we people who play Video Games aren't as baseless and immoral as they mock and marginalize us as, we could start a movement of "Absolute Legitimate Equality", and denounce these filthy practices.



Seeing as I'm posting this to a forum, I fully expect a response, and am fully anticipating backlash, so do your worst. Oh, and if on the off-chance you're not here to bash me, here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ocpv5EtokY

Start by demanding something be done about that (yes, this was in part "inspired" by that video).

People get drunk and celebrate a holiday. With alcohol involved a few selected people do stupid shit.

Long story short, people have fun and get drunk on holidays. It has happened throughout many cultures and it will always happen.

Just because you are straight edged doesn't you mean have to go preaching to people how to celebrate a holiday. No one has entitlement to a certain holiday and how it should be celebrated, nor do many people give a shit.

In fact its people like you that piss me off.

 

[Sixties Spidey]

Ahh... St. Patrick's Day... A time when the idiots in the world rejoice to proclaim "irish" roots all while getting piss-ass drunk. FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC.

 

[Ninjamedic]

I......completely agree. I can add nothing to that argument.

In fact, here's a rambling sort of rant I made about it a couple of days ago.

ULTRAAAAAAAAA COMBOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

And you didn't mention boland as a poet, you get to live!

 

[magnuslion]

actually, the Irish brought Saint Patrick's day with them to New york. so I would get over it if I was you.

 

[Fr331anc3r]

You're fighting straw men here... Of course people are going to be offended if you equate bestiality with their culture's holiday. Meanwhile, St. Patrick's Day was celebrated as a day of feasting since the early 1600s, so it's not that much of a stretch for it to become a drinking holiday.

My only real problem here is the pinching if you don't wear green, who the hell came up with that. Alright I've changed my idea, it is now going to slightly celebrate normally with a hint of the weird... Screwing a goat while eating chinese food, shooting off fireworks, in a giant dragon costume parading down the street. That's how we should celebrate the Chinese New Year from now on, I decreed it so.