Yes, They're Gamers, Too

OneBig Man

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Jul 23, 2008
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I don't think people who play casual games are "gamers", but rather people who play video games. Then again, I don't consider people Who spend their lives trying to be lvl 80 in WoW or try to be top ranked in CoD "gamers" either. To me, gamers enjoy every part of gaming from the RTS to the FPS. Gamers love to get headshots, but they also love to get to finish the quest and get to the next stage.

To sum it up, I think a gamer may love one genre, but that doesn't stop them from liking the other ones.
 

oppp7

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Aug 29, 2009
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I agree with this article. I'm tired of people making fun of games like WoW and casual games.
 

Graustein

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Jun 15, 2008
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BlueInkAlchemist said:
I'm reminded of the following.

[http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=282]
Ugh, don't remind me of that. One of the worst things I've ever read.

To Susan: THANK YOU. I have always found the notion of hardcore versus casual to be unbelievably petty and immature. The way people act, you'd think that anybody who doesn't play something on The Official Good Game List is worse than Hitler. It's absolutely appalling, the way people can't seem to get to grips with the concept that people like stuff that they don't.
 
Aug 25, 2009
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My argument say tha everyone who plays games on a regular basis, whatever the games, is a gamer by default. (Regular meaning at least weekly to me, some may differ)

That said, I don't find that the battle to have gaming accepted is won. I still get a lot of funny looks, and people automatically assume I have poor social skills and a small group of friends when I simply mention that I have an XBOX360, let alone referring to myself as a gamer.

I don't care about the 'hardcore'/'casual' debate, as long as it stays the hell away from me, but I don't think gaming is as accepted as other forms of entertainment yet, which to me is a more interesting issue than what makes a gamer or not.

(Also, it's extraordinarily interesting from a sociological standpoint to note that people are fine with Wii ownership, but mention any other console and they jump to 'freaky social reject loser'. This is not Wii bashing, but an observation I have made, has anyone else experienced similar? Gamers may argue about the Wii's relevance as a gaming platform, but I have found that 'non-traditional gamers' to give them a title, do not consider themselves to be gaming.)
 

Sion_Barzahd

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Jul 2, 2008
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I still defend the status as a gamer, though i feel a bit silly admitting it after reading that.Its always been something thats made me an outcast growing up, and as i grew i met many great games.

Nowadays casual gamers are most of the population, which is good. I am no longer an outcast for my hobby and people respect it as a decent past time.
On the other side, i've seen that the rise in popularity has followed a decrease in game difficulty and a lack of imagination.I mean i bless games like mirror's edge which have recently tried to put a new spin on playing games.

In my eyes its that we push the casual gamers away and reject them of the honored title because many of us don't want this decline of gaming to continue.
Soon enough games wont even have titles, each genre's ideas will be reprocessed into one filthy clump each.
You'll have First Person Shooter, Platformer, Puzzle, Real Time Stratergy, Racer, Sandbox, RPG, Guitar and Sport.
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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It doesn't matter to me. To me a "gamer" is someone who plays games, whether they be casual or otherwise. Besides I've played a few "casual" games and some of them aren't bad for occasional time wasters. It's like Baseball, you've got the Major League professional ball players, and you've got the neighborhood kid's ball team; you don't ever see the the former complaining about the latter saying they're not "real" ball players, do you? Of course not! That'd be ridiculous. Complaining about the more casual gamers in the same way is just as ridiculous.
As Susan said, we've won! Gaming is mainstream now, lay down your arms; the fight is over... well almost. There's still Micheal Atkinson and a few other pretentious jerks, but they're in the minority now.
 

coldfrog

Can you feel around inside?
Dec 22, 2008
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Why not bring gaming back to its roots? Make EVERY game almost entirely reliable on randomness, and we have to pay money to play the games, but if we win we get our money and everyone elses! Don't you remember the roots of gaming?
 

Jared

The British Paladin
Jul 14, 2009
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I suck at meg man too...and I dont think its about labelling...if you enjoy games, cool, if not...cool. Its all a mattr of a person
 

Plurralbles

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Jan 12, 2010
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But gamer has a specific meaning that you completely blkow over.
OneBig Man said:
I don't think people who play casual games are "gamers", but rather people who play video games. Then again, I don't consider people Who spend their lives trying to be lvl 80 in WoW or try to be top ranked in CoD "gamers" either. To me, gamers enjoy every part of gaming from the RTS to the FPS. Gamers love to get headshots, but they also love to get to finish the quest and get to the next stage.

To sum it up, I think a gamer may love one genre, but that doesn't stop them from liking the other ones.
I agree with this. I don't consider everyone who picks up a mouse or a controller or a phone with stuff on it, a gamer. A gamer is a connoisseur of games. I consider myself to be a gamer. I'm not particularly good at them or have the latest gen console or the most powerful hardware, but I have a far-reaching library, i keep up with gaming news and culture, and I love to play pretty much any game, though that doesn't stop me from being what a gamer is most and really adds to the, "connoisseur" definition- one who is a critic of games and care deeply about what value they add to the industry.
 

2012 Wont Happen

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Aug 12, 2009
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If you enjoy video games, you are a gamer. You don't have to be deeply involved in gamer culture to get the title.

Other example of the principle:

I am straight edge. I follow the rules of the lifestyle. However, I have only minor ties to the culture through liking Minor Threat.
 

Zac_Dai

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Oct 21, 2008
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I don't even like Megaman...

Its like making out people who read Harry Potter books aren't "real readers".
 

Rachel Edidin

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Oct 23, 2009
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Wondering to how, if at all, participation in gaming culture and/or self-identification relate to the gamer label. I know plenty of people who play video games but deliberately avoid the label because they don't consider gaming a significant part of their identities.
 

Citrus

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Apr 25, 2008
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I'd encourage you guys read Jun-Kai's article before bashing him. I still disagree with him, but what he says was taken a bit out of context. I don't think it was intended as a straight criteria as for what makes a person a gamer so much as sort of a suggestion as towards the kind of skill/dedication he'd expect a gamer to have.

Also, he didn't say anything about beating Megaman without dying. He said, "A gamer is a person that can leap from one end of Rockman/Megaman until the other end without losing a single drop of life." I have no idea what that means because I've never touched Megaman, but if leaping from one end of "Rockman/Megaman" to the other is the entire game, then never mind.

Anyway, this debate is inherent in all hobbies and practices. If a person can only play the first two notes of Stairway to Heaven, does that make him a guitarist? That's the sort of logic behind the "you're not a real gamer" thing.

In truth, it's all entirely subjective. I don't consider someone who can play the first two notes of Stairway to Heaven a guitarist, but I do consider someone who occasionally plays Farmville a gamer. There is no real answer and no real criteria, so I'd say it's pretty much opinion all the way.
 

WorldCritic

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Apr 13, 2009
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Too high requirements for "real gamers". Although I probably qualify, I think he's an idiot for continuing the real gamer argument and making it worse at that.
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
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Citrus Insanity said:
Also, he didn't say anything about beating Megaman without dying. He said, "A gamer is a person that can leap from one end of Rockman/Megaman until the other end without losing a single drop of life." I have no idea what that means because I've never touched Megaman, but if leaping from one end of "Rockman/Megaman" to the other is the entire game, then never mind.
As I see it, there are two ways to interpret his Megaman comment: either get through a level, or get through the entire game. Either way...it's a bit of a tall order. One is certainly more doable than the other, but both are quite hard. (Me, I just don't have that kind of patience. Soooo not my bag.)
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Generally speaking I agree to some extent with the person being refuted here. I think the big problem is that it's hard to put a label on the trait that he was trying to quantify which is why it fell apart.

Right now gaming has gone mainstream, and you see a lot of mainstream people who are enjoying gamers wanting to be considered serious gamers by the people who are really involved in it. Rational, right, wrong, or whatever it's true. Due to this division the industry has been trying to pretty much lump everyone into one catagory and saying "your all gamers".

The term "gamer" is of course simply someone who plays games. By a strict definition everyone IS a gamer, but what we see here is getting into subcultural lingo where the word has a changed meaning, when it comes to video gamers it means something very specific. Argueing about the ascribed meaning being pointless because like it or not it exists, and like most other subcultures, disagreeing with it doesn't mean anything.

In general the games industry wants to try and pretend there isn't much division in the audience, but there is one. It's also social within gaming communities as well as simply an abstract label. You have "noobs" (labeled by others), and "elites" and such. The type of game can make things very pronounced, for example hardcore raiders in WoW are considered elitist jerks, and a site called "Elitist Jerks" was launched to cater to that community, pretty much admitting the truth of it and wearing it as a badge of honor.

Overall the conflict arises because increasingly you have people who want to be challenged by, or simply deeply involved in a game. Then you have people who don't really want to embrace gaming as a major part of their lives and pretty much want games to be shallow, easy to understand, and immediatly gratifying. In certain things like MMORPGs where a lot of work can be involved, there are those who believe that those who do that work are entitled to special content and events as a payoff for doing these things, on the other hand you have more casual players who feel that they should be handed all of the same content and rewards just for being there because they pay the membership fees too.

I don't feel any specific feat defines a real gamer as opposed to a gaming member of the mainstream. But types of feats DO, such as defeating some of the hidden uber bosses in RPGs, mastering complicated systems of combos in fighting games, or virtuoso achieements in platforming games. The people who work at those kinds of things are far differant from the mainstream.

I think the problem is also that a lot of hard core gamers are those who seek escapism (or are otherwise doing something very solitary). People who might fail at life (for one reason or another), but are very good at games. I think part of the problem is that you have a lot of people who want to feel like they are good at games, yet don't want to put in the work.

Despite how this all might sound, I actually fall between the extremes. I spent a lot of time gaming, but I'm a bit of wreck and I'm not all that good at a lot of them. I was also in a position where when I was working, I couldn't invest the time in "Serious" gaming (which I recognized) and still keep everything else flowing. I for example didn't do MMORPG raiding at that time period. I admit having been "outside" I can understand the envy factor involved and wishing you could do some of the things other people were doing. Now that I'm on the other side again, and put in that kind of effort I very much understand what people were saying when they expressed their disdain of casuals. I feel it ruins half the point and cheapens the effort if you just let everyone do some things. What's more when world building in an RPG a truely epic monster should be well... epic, and part of that is to make it so that people can't just casually wipe the floor with it. In a lot of respects what casuals seem to want (dealing with RPGs in general) is the equivilent of that old "Dragon Magazine" cartoon of a crate with a slit in it and a sign saying "Contains One Minotaur, insert sword for 675 exps".

That said, I haven't played Farmville to judge that game specifically, it sounded a lot like "Harvest Moon" me, and really I have never been excited by the idea. I game to get away from reality, I can't imagine why anyuone would want to simulate doing chores on a farm.