Yet another girl trouble thread.
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You sir, are in a tough position. You're slightly screwed but not totally. There is a little hope, but you have to play it perfectly.snowman6251 said:
You have to find the balance between your interest in her and her interest in you. Initially, she had interest in you and I believe it was something more of intrigue and not necessarily a yearning as it appears you have. Out of curiosity, she has hung out with you a few times just to see if this intrigue could lead to anything further. This (unfairly) put her in a position where she would react instead of being the instigator. Due to your timidness (I don't blame you, you just wanted to feel out the situation and not screw it up), things have gone stale. After two dinners and one lunch (very neutral places), things have remained the same. This is turning her off. Staleness is the worst and she feels that the two of you aren't clicking if you both are still at the place where you started. You're at your last gasp, hopefully Thanksgiving gives you a little time.
You need to lay off. Don't talk to her on Monday. She'll think, "Well it's over. I'm actually relieved because this makes it less awkward when I slowly reject him."
This is when you throw her in a loop. On Tuesday, whether it be in class or in passing somehow, give her a small meaningful present. If she mentioned that she has cold feet, get her socks. If she has a favorite pen, get her a pack of five. Something not creepy, but it has to show you pay attention. Wrap it up too, you can make a joke that you found it funny wrapping up something so silly. Also write a note that while you saw it while you were out and remembered you might need it (or something along those lines). Make it short, and DO NOT express your feelings or be sappy.
After the gift, don't hang around. If she asks if you want to have lunch, say you wish you could but you're busy. Then hang low. Somewhat avoid her. Don't call, let her call you. If she hasn't called you by Friday or Saturday, find a party, invite her, "I got invited to some party but don't really want to go alone. I don't want to be stuck with a bunch of people I don't know."
By this time, you are either eating away at her mind and she's gushing over you, or she has no interest. If it's the latter, it never would have happened.
snowman6251 said:
You are almost definitely in the friends zone.
The kinds of stuff she was saying to you (e.g. she uses her schedule to get away from people, shes a closet nerd) aren't the kinds of things girls normally say to people they are attracted to. When you made the "you know you want me here" it showed that she likes you, but really isn't attracted to you.
When shes talking to this other guy, does she talk differently? Does she giggle a lot and touch him unnecessarily? If so, there is a good chance shes attracted to him.
However, you can try to fix this.
I would say escalate physical contact between the two of you. Nothing big, maybe casually nudge her arm while gesturing, or put your hand on her shoulder when you point something out, etc. tiny things, like you could be doing it unconsciously. If she starts being cold or slightly put off, retreat.
But before you do this you need to do something that may be a bit harder; you need to stop talking to her as much. You need to not talk to her all that much in class anymore, and do what the person above me said, and reject any invites she gives, you, saying that you are busy. But never forget, don't be rude about it. Ever.
I hope that helps.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!
Seriously though......wall'o'text. I understand that its complicated and important, but perhaps consider bullet points next time. Its hard to concentrate reading all that.
And while I understand your confusion, I can't help you. Because when you got to the "talked to" part that didn't involve you being humilated, you got farther than I ever have. When you got to "date", you exceeded anything I've ever realisitically dreamed about.
Seriously though......wall'o'text. I understand that its complicated and important, but perhaps consider bullet points next time. Its hard to concentrate reading all that.
And while I understand your confusion, I can't help you. Because when you got to the "talked to" part that didn't involve you being humilated, you got farther than I ever have. When you got to "date", you exceeded anything I've ever realisitically dreamed about.
Not only to I get contradicting advice but I get contradicting opinions on my writing capabilities. Thanks for that.Mr.Tea said:
Also I've done the blurt it all out thing in the past and seen mixed results. Its usually what I do when all else fails and I'm preparing myself for it as a plan B.
With someone with NO experience in this field at all, I'd say you on her "Friend ladder" rather than the "Boyfriend ladder."
Once you're on there, you never go back.
Once you're on there, you never go back.
i say let your intentions be known, i think subtly can be a good thing but not when you are letting your feelings known. she might be hot but to be brutally honest she seems like she's abit of a *****. you take her out for dinner confide with her and treat her the way a woman deserves to be treated and all you get is a "meh". you can do better, you seem like a gentleman and there's not many guys like you left. find someone who appreciates you
either that or she's waiting for you to say how you feel and you are doing the same and you're stuck in a stalemate
either that or she's waiting for you to say how you feel and you are doing the same and you're stuck in a stalemate
Seems like you have similar traits to mesnowman6251 said:
Highly optimistic (What I want to hear)
Reading into things too much (Getting upset over them)
Not a mind reader (A girl could kiss me and id still wouldnt be sure)
When a similar thing happened to me, My prevoius experience with girls, as well as my low self esteem, made me panic alot. I liked this girl for 5 months, and throughout I was convinced she liked me. But I didnt ask her out due to doubt, made by invisible evidence. It ended up being a really really bad 5 months.
She then Fell for another boy, about 4 or 5 days before I finally asked her out. The outcome was bad, which through me into a physho minded...physhco.
However, i bring tips to the table
1) Dont dawdle
2) Dont do the same things repeatedly, dont do the same thing 7 times
3) Be creative
4) Keep on top of your thoughts
As much as the situations are different, we have similar traits, your like the american version of me (I oplogize in advance if your not from the states
Also, Theses guys comments (on this thread) are all good advice (from the ones Ive read).
I wish you the best of luck, let me know how it works out.
You my friend are in a nose dive into the 'Frend zone' with one engine on fire and half a wing missing. It's gonna be hard to pull up from this one i think.
Ok airplane metaphors aside then. What you need to do is to talk to her and not dance around the issue. You like her and you don't know if she likes you...welcome to the world of being a man my son, get accustomed to it. Woman is a strange and curious creature.
from what you have said i think she is confused about how you feel about her so she is being cautious and not letting her feelings about you show. She may like you and want to be more than friends or she may not but she wont risk making a choice ether way until she has a clearer idea of what you want. I think your lack of physical contact is the problem. You show interest in her by asking her to dinner et al... but you haven't even given her a hug yet? Now don't get me wrong i'm not saying be a creep but you need to initiate physical contact, from what you described of her then she never will be the first to and it's up to you.
And hey remember, don't stress out! It's not attractive. Be cool and tell her how you see it, try some thing along the lines of 'I like you (put your self on the line, she will respect your honesty even if she doesn't like you) and i think you may like me too but I'm not sure, so now you know where i stand...wanna go get a drink? *proceed to nearest pub/bar, order a round, DO NOT GET DRUNK AND DO SOMETHING STUPID, then be a gentleman and walk her home, give her a hug and say you had a good time (if that's the case) and that you will see her in school/around. If she doesn't respond to that then she's probably not that into you.
Ok airplane metaphors aside then. What you need to do is to talk to her and not dance around the issue. You like her and you don't know if she likes you...welcome to the world of being a man my son, get accustomed to it. Woman is a strange and curious creature.
from what you have said i think she is confused about how you feel about her so she is being cautious and not letting her feelings about you show. She may like you and want to be more than friends or she may not but she wont risk making a choice ether way until she has a clearer idea of what you want. I think your lack of physical contact is the problem. You show interest in her by asking her to dinner et al... but you haven't even given her a hug yet? Now don't get me wrong i'm not saying be a creep but you need to initiate physical contact, from what you described of her then she never will be the first to and it's up to you.
And hey remember, don't stress out! It's not attractive. Be cool and tell her how you see it, try some thing along the lines of 'I like you (put your self on the line, she will respect your honesty even if she doesn't like you) and i think you may like me too but I'm not sure, so now you know where i stand...wanna go get a drink? *proceed to nearest pub/bar, order a round, DO NOT GET DRUNK AND DO SOMETHING STUPID, then be a gentleman and walk her home, give her a hug and say you had a good time (if that's the case) and that you will see her in school/around. If she doesn't respond to that then she's probably not that into you.
Three thingssnowman6251 said:
1) Perhaps try not blurting. I mean you probably don't mean you're actually going to blurt it out, but if you do, please try and be a little more smooth.
2) The longer you leave it to actually talk about this, the weirder it's going to be when you do.
3) She may have no idea that you're attracted to her. Maybe she can't read signals either, or perhaps yours are reading clearly as you wanting to be friends with her. She might not have even considered that you two could get together, and so unless you actually outright ask her out nothing may end up happening.
Also, you've said 'blurting' has mixed results, does your current strategy usually have a higher success rate?
I feel pretty bad for you man, I've been there, and for me it's never ended the way I want it to.. it might be that she can't read people either, i.e. can't comprehend you having a genuine interest in her.snowman6251 said:
I'd see what she's like after the break, and if she keeps up with the mixed messages just come clean with how you feel about her, even if she rejects you it'll save you a lot of heartache in the long run.
You just answered your question right there buddy, yes... you are.snowman6251 said:
And the way you explain her I get the opinion that she may be sort of socially akward, like her telling you she's a loner is a big indicator. The reason she may seem so confusing to you is because she is new the the whole social interaction thing and may not be very good at it. Maybe she's wating for you to make the first move because she is inexperienced in the field and does not know how. It couldn't hurt, and besides it will let you know whether she likes you or not... so take a chance.
You said before you always let the girl make the first move, and by the content and tone of you words I would say you are let down in the romantic field a lot. So having said that... doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time is the deffinition of insanity... don't be insane bro. Just make the move, and if it doesn't work out, then at least you may be on the road to changing your habits with the females.
Same boat, mate.snowman6251 said:
Or at least I've been there before, empathize, also have trouble reading social cues, ect.
Although, as an observer, I'm fantastic at reading social cues and stuff, just never when it involves me. Go figure.
So what I see here is a classic case of neither of you knows what the other really thinks/feels. You're both playing the wait and see card. She doesn't seem to be showing overt signs of attraction, though she is showing at least that she enjoys your company. Thus it is possible that she views your friendship as platonic. Or she's playing it cool just like you are. Because you are not being overt either as far as signs of attraction go. You've asked her out on pretty safe friend things. You've been very careful to word your invites as not to imply "dating" while thinking to yourself-"this is a data."
I did the same thing with a girl I liked a lot last year. I was very political in my advances, never implying that I wanted to be her boyfriend while maintaining that I enjoyed hanging out with her. Asked her to go to a movie with her, went to my homecoming dance with her. And she seemed to enjoy herself ect. When she asked me to a dance, I thought to myself that this was "the sign" or whatever. Especially because my friends encouraged me that it was. Long story short, she told me she had no interest in pursuing a relationship.
After that, we stayed friends for a while, then we both went to different colleges and I haven't spoken to her in months.
On top of this, the year before this, my first girlfriend and I broke up in part due to miscommunication on my part. I never officially "asked her out." This little thing ended up being important to her, because it brings out into the open all of your feelings. We had been "dating" for about a year at this point. But I had never asked her out, and she never asked me out. We just kinda, had each other. When I saw pictures of her with another guy, I flipped. She responded with saying if I liked her so much, why did I never ask her out.
Wow, didn't mean to dump my stories on you....sorry about that.
Point being, diplomacy and playing the "nice, sensitive, mysterious" type might bring about rejection anyway. At this point, it sounds like you've developed enough of a friendly rapport. If you have feelings for her, ask her out officially. See what happens.
Ok.. After reading ALL OF THAT! No way in hell am I reading ALL the comments...
OT; Alright lets look at the facts.
Fact 1: She is a loner
Fact 2: she liked you enough to show you embarrassing things
Fact 3: She hangs out with you a lot.
So, for you she has nearly abandoned her loner ways and has been hanging out with you a lot... Well that starts you out on good ice.. But perhaps you are being a tad to slow? Maybe she wants you to make a move, but is scared that you don't like her and is perhaps now cutting you off in fear of being hurt? I dont know, but that is one possible area.. Another is she just wants you as a friend. Either way, best to let her know how you feel. You two have gone out enough it seems reasonable to think there might be something there for you two.
My advice, go get her.. If she says no, go home?
(Sorry, I don't want to write a whole lot after reading all that... I had a far better post thought out halfway threw.. Now I am just mind fucked.)
OT; Alright lets look at the facts.
Fact 1: She is a loner
Fact 2: she liked you enough to show you embarrassing things
Fact 3: She hangs out with you a lot.
So, for you she has nearly abandoned her loner ways and has been hanging out with you a lot... Well that starts you out on good ice.. But perhaps you are being a tad to slow? Maybe she wants you to make a move, but is scared that you don't like her and is perhaps now cutting you off in fear of being hurt? I dont know, but that is one possible area.. Another is she just wants you as a friend. Either way, best to let her know how you feel. You two have gone out enough it seems reasonable to think there might be something there for you two.
My advice, go get her.. If she says no, go home?
(Sorry, I don't want to write a whole lot after reading all that... I had a far better post thought out halfway threw.. Now I am just mind fucked.)
MY MAIN POINT: You're not a mind reader, let this girl how you feel it will save you feeling like crap in the long run and messing around thinking if she likes you or not is NEVER worth it.
Now my large body of text if you want to read...
This takes me back a few years during my first year at University.
This sounds similarish to a situation I went through. I met this girl, who lived in my college housing. There was a physical attraction right off the bat (well me fancying her anyway). We started hanging out very innocently enough like you, and things slowly progressed, but that was the problem.
I knew i liked her, I wanted to take things further considering we spent ALL our time together. My friends could see i was getting miserable and to be honest i was acting strange compared to before i had met her. After around 6 months of messing around (yes 6 months...) and my friends saying who is she whats so special about her? shes just messing you around!!!
I finally just came out and said I like you, i want to be with you (not those exact words) and she turned around and said she wasnt looking for a relationship... i was devestated having i thought wasted 6 months of my time at uni going after her. We stopped talking for about a week, where she then got back in contact with me saying she didnt want to lose me as a friend blah blah, so i gave her a second chance as she said she wasn't ready right now. Then 3 months later... we were in a relationship...
We went out for a year and a half, where things kind of fell apart. I can't help but feel that her messing me around for 6 months (and sort of the other 3 ) led me to eventually resent her somewhat.
My point though is that from my experience all I can say is DO NOT become to obsessed with this girl. I understand how you are feeling, for example seeing her talking to another lad. It could be seen as a petty and jealous, but i know that hanging around someone you like and them not giving any signs away whether they like you in that way or not can be infuriating and make you act stupidly.
You are better off telling this girl NOW exactly how you feel, even if it costs you your friendship. I say this because believe me it is NOT worth it, not to feel like you probably are because its highly possible that if you get what you want, when you mess around not telling her for a few more months, it won't be as good as you thought.
Let her know, if she doesn't like you that way fine, better you know now than months from now.
Now my large body of text if you want to read...
This takes me back a few years during my first year at University.
This sounds similarish to a situation I went through. I met this girl, who lived in my college housing. There was a physical attraction right off the bat (well me fancying her anyway). We started hanging out very innocently enough like you, and things slowly progressed, but that was the problem.
I knew i liked her, I wanted to take things further considering we spent ALL our time together. My friends could see i was getting miserable and to be honest i was acting strange compared to before i had met her. After around 6 months of messing around (yes 6 months...) and my friends saying who is she whats so special about her? shes just messing you around!!!
I finally just came out and said I like you, i want to be with you (not those exact words) and she turned around and said she wasnt looking for a relationship... i was devestated having i thought wasted 6 months of my time at uni going after her. We stopped talking for about a week, where she then got back in contact with me saying she didnt want to lose me as a friend blah blah, so i gave her a second chance as she said she wasn't ready right now. Then 3 months later... we were in a relationship...
We went out for a year and a half, where things kind of fell apart. I can't help but feel that her messing me around for 6 months (and sort of the other 3 ) led me to eventually resent her somewhat.
My point though is that from my experience all I can say is DO NOT become to obsessed with this girl. I understand how you are feeling, for example seeing her talking to another lad. It could be seen as a petty and jealous, but i know that hanging around someone you like and them not giving any signs away whether they like you in that way or not can be infuriating and make you act stupidly.
You are better off telling this girl NOW exactly how you feel, even if it costs you your friendship. I say this because believe me it is NOT worth it, not to feel like you probably are because its highly possible that if you get what you want, when you mess around not telling her for a few more months, it won't be as good as you thought.
Let her know, if she doesn't like you that way fine, better you know now than months from now.
you answer your own question with the first line of the post. Whenever you meet a friend, guy or girl, there are natural feelings about how well you click. If its right you don't go through this questioning phase at all because it just clicks, walk away she's not really too nice or considerate, and she knows exactly how you feel and she uses that to manipulate your relationship to her benefit. If you have to "think" about this, and analize it then how right can it be ? Your heart always tells you the truth, its your head that plays tricks on you.
Quit looking and there it is !
Quit looking and there it is !
Well that was a fun read. All I have to say is well done, man. It takes a lot of courage to ask someone out the further into the "friend state" you get. I guess, at some point, you've got to stop being afraid of failure and just do it. So congrats and good luck!