"You can't love animal's if you're not a vegetarian"

[Eggsnham]

Plants are living things, I bet most vegans/vegetarians not only eat plants, they probably also live in houses made with wood and other natural plant based resources.

Not to mention that pretty much any vegetarian willing to argue about the ethics of eating meat ignores that the human body is designed to work best when consuming both plants and meat.

Plus, these people tend to ignore that a huge number of Earth's living beings eat meat exclusively, and would literally die if it were any other way.

 

[bl4ckh4wk64]

I can't even word an argument as to how wrong this statement is... I mean, it's not just straight black and white here. I think cows are pretty cool, but I will eat them and their little baby cows in a heartbeat. Veal is too good to pass up, and regular steak is amazing. That being said, I'd do the same for chickens (I've even tried Balut, and that was kinda ok). However, I would never eat any house animals. You can't keep a cow as a pet instead of say, a dog or a cat. They just aren't like that. They're big, very very stupid, and extremely tasty.

 

[peruvianskys]

I absolutely loved my cat (loved, he unfortunately had to be put down because he was suffering from cat-leukemia, I was devastated, especially because I hadn't had the chance to say a proper good buy to him since I was at a boarding school at the time, although I'd probably have been equally devastated anyways but it did come as a hit in the gut when you're getting that kind of news through the phone).

I also like to eat a medium done steak.

This just goes to show that when you treat animals as individuals, as living beings, you can develop deep and meaningful relationships with them.

When you treat them like walking buffets that exist to get eaten, then you can't.

The fact is, every cow you've eaten is every bit as much of an individual capable of being loved as your cat was.

However, I would never eat any house animals. You can't keep a cow as a pet instead of say, a dog or a cat. They just aren't like that. They're big, very very stupid, and extremely tasty.

Cows are just as intelligent as dogs and cats. You are simply wrong to argue otherwise.

Plants are living things, I bet most vegans/vegetarians not only eat plants, they probably also live in houses made with wood and other natural plant based resources.

Plants are not capable of experiencing sentience. Pigs, cows, chickens, ducks, geese, and other animals are.

Not to mention that pretty much any vegetarian willing to argue about the ethics of eating meat ignores that the human body is designed to work best when consuming both plants and meat.

This argument is meaningless. The fact that our bodies are designed to consume meat just means that at one point in our evolution, it was advantagous to kill other things and eat them. Evolution is not a moral process; after all, evolution has also created us ready to rape and murder in order to survive. Are those things alright because we are evolutionarily inclined towards them?

Plus, these people tend to ignore that a huge number of Earth's living beings eat meat exclusively, and would literally die if it were any other way.

And you tend to ignore the fact that a huge number of Earth's human beings die of starvation because of the absurdly destructive and inefficient meat industry.

I am generally FOND of animals, and had much warmer feelings still for those that I've come to know and/or care for. Same is generally true of people, too, I suppose.

It is the same with people; if you pretend that they're the "other," who you don't need to care about, who exist to serve you, if you rob them of their existence as living creatures, then it's easy to sanction violence against them.

If you treat them like meaningful, worthwhile beings worthy of affection, then suddenly you don't want to tear their muscles off and eat their dead bodies.

 

[Sectan]

When EVERYONE in the world has enough to eat, then we can start arguing about what we should be eating. Pretty soon we'll have organizations telling starving nations that the food source they're going to get is poi-Oh wait...

 

[MrFalconfly]

I absolutely loved my cat (loved, he unfortunately had to be put down because he was suffering from cat-leukemia, I was devastated, especially because I hadn't had the chance to say a proper good buy to him since I was at a boarding school at the time, although I'd probably have been equally devastated anyways but it did come as a hit in the gut when you're getting that kind of news through the phone).

I also like to eat a medium done steak.

This just goes to show that when you treat animals as individuals, as living beings, you can develop deep and meaningful relationships with them.

When you treat them like walking buffets that exist to get eaten, then you can't.

The fact is, every cow you've eaten is every bit as much of an individual capable of being loved as your cat was.

Maybe.

I beg to differ simply because unlike the cat the cow is a group-oriented herbivore whereas the cat is a predator which is capable of formulating and coordinating a plan of attack.

The cat is inherently more intelligent because if it wasn't it wouldn't have survived as a predator while the cows defense lies in their size and their numbers.

Pigs are omnivores which would also require a relatively high intelligence.

In short animals with either carnivorous or omnivorous diets are likely more intelligent than herbivorous prey.

 

[90sgamer]

It is a poor argument to make namely because it uses a broad catch-all term. People are animals and I am positive just about every omnivore loves at least one other person.
The argument needs to be qualified. For example: It is impossible to love all chickens if you eat chicken. I might agree with such an argument. Sure, a chicken eater could love one chicken, a chicken they keep as a pet, while eating others. The argument above suggests that the chicken-eater does not love the chickens that it eats. It makes intuitive sense: love is a very strong emotional attachment. How could one eat a chicken they are in love with?

As for myself I love all animals... to be nicely prepared on my grill.

 

[Korolev]

You can't love animals as much as a vegetarian if you eat meat, but you can still like animals. And not all animals are equal. Primates, for instance, are far more intelligent than cows or chickens. Which is why I eat chickens and not chimpanzee meat. Chickens are really, really, really stupid. So it's okay to eat them.

I mean seriously, have you see how stupid chickens are? They're dumb as hell. So are fish for that matter. So it's okay to eat them. But it's not okay to elephants, who can recognize their own reflections, or chimps, who can do that as well - basically, if an animal is intelligent enough to pass the "recognize self in mirror" test, I won't eat them. If they're too stupid to even recognize their own reflection, then dig in. The world won't miss much.

 

[peruvianskys]

When EVERYONE in the world has enough to eat, then we can start arguing about what we should be eating. Pretty soon we'll have organizations telling starving nations that the food source they're going to get is poi-Oh wait...

Did you know that last year, the UN released a study that confirmed the widely-held scientific belief that a wider adopting of vegetarianism would allow for the massive reduction of starvation across the world within 50 years?

If we wait to argue about what we should be eating, there will never be a time when the world has enough to eat.

 

[peruvianskys]

The cat is inherently more intelligent because if it wasn't it wouldn't have survived as a predator while the cows defense lies in their size and their numbers.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1352692/posts

The Bristol researchers have documented how cows within a herd form friendship groups of between two and four animals with whom they spend most of their time, often grooming and licking each other. They will also dislike other cows, and can bear grudges for months or years.

Donald Broom, professor of animal welfare at Cambridge University, will tell the conference how cows can become excited by solving intellectual challenges.

In one study, researchers challenged the animals with a task where they had to find how to open a door to get some food. An electroencephalograph was used to measure their brainwaves.

"The brainwaves showed their excitement; their heartbeat went up and some even jumped into the air. We called it their Eureka moment," Professor Broom said.

You're wrong. Cows are emotionally complex and intelligent beings, like pigs or apes or humans, for example.

 

[Vegan_Doodler]

Ok the argument sounds like it was worded a bit to aggressively but they have a point, I can't comprehend how some one can love something and then eat it.
Also...

I don't know about you guy's, but I found this idea completely idiotic, the way I see it, we are in the food chain as-well as the animals, it's natural for us to eat them. {snip}
It's just normal nature, you can still love animals, even if you eat meat.

I will never accept the "its natural" argument because we are typing on computers right now and the majority of meat people eat comes pre-dead warped in plastic, what's human and what's natural parted ways long ago, additionally we aren't really part of the food chain are we, I've never seen a human chase down and kill a cow with it's bare hands.

But hey, different strokes for different folks and all that, I now invite the tidal wave of wild accusations I get when ever I post in a food thread that I look down on everyone and I wan't to convert you all.

 

[MrFalconfly]

The cat is inherently more intelligent because if it wasn't it wouldn't have survived as a predator while the cows defense lies in their size and their numbers.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1352692/posts

The Bristol researchers have documented how cows within a herd form friendship groups of between two and four animals with whom they spend most of their time, often grooming and licking each other. They will also dislike other cows, and can bear grudges for months or years.

Donald Broom, professor of animal welfare at Cambridge University, will tell the conference how cows can become excited by solving intellectual challenges.

In one study, researchers challenged the animals with a task where they had to find how to open a door to get some food. An electroencephalograph was used to measure their brainwaves.

"The brainwaves showed their excitement; their heartbeat went up and some even jumped into the air. We called it their Eureka moment," Professor Broom said.

You're wrong. Cows are emotionally complex and intelligent beings, like pigs or apes or humans, for example.

I didn't say cows were emotional mules.

I said they were comparatively less intelligent than an omnivore (human, ape, pig) or a predator (wolf, cat, any kind of whale).

Sure they can remember individuals and they can hold grudges and that but they can't form a strategy like a pack of lions herding and singling out a weak member of a group of wildebeest or a group of humpback-whales fishing herring using nets of air-bubbles. And while I use the intelligence argument for animals I wont eat it falls down when it comes to octopi (which although being mollusks are monumentally intelligent beings) which I find positively tasty.

 

[identifier]

How do you argue against crazy?

 

[peruvianskys]

I said they were comparatively less intelligent than an omnivore (human, ape, pig) or a predator (wolf, cat, any kind of whale).

And what I'm saying is that your criteria for determining intelligence is flawed and does not reflect scientific understanding.

And while I use the intelligence argument for animals I wont eat it falls down when it comes to octopi (which although being mollusks are monumentally intelligent beings) which I find positively tasty.

So will you just admit that you don't actually care about what is right or wrong and instead just care about what tastes best? Because that fairly shitty approach to life is what I detect in your above statement.

 

[Risingblade]

I only like animals that eat meat, cats, dogs, tigers, sharks, crocodiles etc hence why i dont' eat those animals.

 

[Daveman]

I can, it just makes me a hypocrite... but I already knew that.

 

[Soundwave]

Arguing something for the sake of it being 'natural' is a logical fallacy.

 

[teknoarcanist]

I love animals.

I just love how they taste slightly more.

 

[MrFalconfly]

I said they were comparatively less intelligent than an omnivore (human, ape, pig) or a predator (wolf, cat, any kind of whale).

And what I'm saying is that your criteria for determining intelligence is flawed and does not reflect scientific understanding.

And while I use the intelligence argument for animals I wont eat it falls down when it comes to octopi (which although being mollusks are monumentally intelligent beings) which I find positively tasty.

So will you just admit that you don't actually care about what is right or wrong and instead just care about what tastes best? Because that fairly shitty approach to life is what I detect in your above statement.

My criteria for determining intelligence is flawed? How so?

I'd say it requires intelligence to communicate ideas (for example coordinate a strategy to take down prey) and learn things (learn a new method of catching your prey like the bubble-net method utilized by humpback-whales not just learn to associate a color with food). Where do I go wrong?

Also what is wrong with eating octopi? It is the only exception to my usual pattern (if it's intelligent and is capable of communicate not just feelings but wants and plans I wont eat it). Yeah octopi are tasty and intelligent but I also treat them as a delicacy not to mention they are chock full of proteins which however you slice it (pun not intended) are beneficial (it was a change from a herbivorous to omnivorous diet that started somewhere around the time of Australopithecus Aferensis or Africanis that resulted in the large brain of Homo Sapiens we're so proud of).

If it's beneficial to my organism I'll eat it (another reason for NOT eating predators is that they are a horribly inefficient way of getting nutrients). I said it in my first post and I'll say it again, I'm pragmatic when it comes to my food.

Also notice how our preferred pet animals are usually also accomplished killers (cats, dogs) should tell you something about what usually classifies as friend and what classifies as food.

 

[Brotha Desmond]

It's not like we kill them out of malice, we kill them for the sake of survival.

 

[Terramax]

I eat meat and I reckon I still love animals. If someone believes I don't love animals because I eat meat, that's their problem.