Young South Korean Men Revolt Against Feminism in South Korea

[Gergar12]

South Korea's young men are fighting against feminism | CNN

On the same street corner in Seoul where 10,000 South Korean women rallied last October to demand an end to spy cameras and sexual violence, the leader of a new activist group addressed a small group of angry young men.

www.cnn.com

The New Political Cry in South Korea: ‘Out With Man Haters’ (Published 2022)

After slow gains in women’s rights, the country is facing a type of political correctness enforced by young men angry at feminists, saying they undermine opportunity.

www.nytimes.com

Apparently, these young men in South Korea are even more against feminism than the older generation in South Korea. They argue that special affirmative action programs are bad because it gives women an unfair leg up. Female colleges are bad because some degrees like law and pharmacy are taught, and there is no male equivalent. It's a reaction against the more progressive Moon administration who used to be popular among the young but now is at 30% with men vs 60% with women. Oh, and they argue feminism is anti-men.

Also, those young Korean men argue against the conscription-based mandatory draft which only applies to men. A lot of those mentioned South Korean men also hate short hair women, overweight women, and feminist authors. And to top it all off the male-favored discourse is dominated by the internet age. Some men also argue against abortion as well.

My opinion on this is mixed. The problem with feminism is that it cuts across everything. From the wage gap to something as mundane as video game character models. Generally, sexual harassment, rape, wage gaps, abortion the feminists are right. Affirmative action depends on how it’s implemented, in the US it has meant white women have gotten hired more, but POC women haven’t which makes male whites, and POC, and POC women hate it. But when it comes to creative content feminists don’t like I don’t agree. I tend to like non-politically correct artist content and politically correct content, and things in-between. But when it comes to feminist forums it’s always, I get all I want, and you get nothing(skimpy armor for men but none for women) or no one gets sex-positive content because I calculated that it makes my feminist political position stronger due to lowering an implicit atmosphere of sexism in say the video game or movie or art mediums.

A lot of it has to do with economic growth, if there are enough jobs for everyone or a growing economy fewer would care, and or they would care less. The unemployment of young people in South Korea is 9% according to both the CNN article and the statistics website I looked upon. But Moon didn’t grow the economy, and the pandemic made it worse. Even if Moon focused a lot of his attention on North Korea, he failed to get closer ties, and it. I would argue it helped the US a lot. Now we don’t have to worry about North Korea, and can focus on Russia, and China.

At least Black Desert Online can have really skimpy outfits even if it’s not that good of a game from an endgame standpoint.

Beware the Law of Unintended Consequences: Why South Korea’s Income-Led Growth Policy Isn’t Working

How Moon Jae-in's flagship policy has failed to address a range of societal ills.

www.globalasia.org

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1233398/south-korea-youth-unemployment-rate/

White women benefit most from affirmative action — and are among its fiercest opponents

The willingness to erase white women from the story of affirmative action is part of the problem.

www.vox.com

 

[Gergar12]

Counterpoint to this from Reddit Neoliberal

Quote;

The article talks about "meritocracy", but I think it may have benefitted from elaborating further on what modern South Korean culture is like. From a young age, the vast majority of kids are sent to "hagwons", essentially private academies that you go to after school. This culture is the norm, and deeply entrenched: you see hordes of kids (starting from elementary school age) on the streets at 8, 9pm, as this is the de-facto end time for school due to hagwons. High-schoolers may return home even later. So for a Korean student, their entire youth revolves around education, and much more time is spent studying or in the classroom than in most other countries.

All this effort essentially amounts to the standardised university entrance exam, the single most important factor for entry into a good university. Likewise, a very important factor for entry into a good corporate job is what university you went to. This is generally the set path of an average middle-class Korean youth (both male and female), and even for lower-class Koreans, performing well in this education system is the typical path for upward mobility. Many young Korean men see themselves as disadvantaged in this highly competitive career path because they lose 18 months that they could have spent studying to the mandatory military service, something that women are not obliged nor incentivised to do.

In the eyes of many Korean men, feminism has lead to affirmative action policies that lower standards for women to fill competitive slots in a system that already favours women. Many other factors make the Korean feminism debate different than in the West. I think a more conservative culture is definitely part of it, as well as the newer incel, men's rights, and other anti-feminist ideologies of a post-sexual-revolution world, but I just wanted to explain the one that might help people to understand the mindset of a young anti-feminist Korean man.

TLDR: The importance of the Korean education system cannot be overstated here; almost every young Korean person's life revolves around this highly competitive and stressful system, and unfair advantages in this system, such as affirmative action and sex-discriminatory mandatory military service (but also nepotism and economic inequality) are controversial in Korea.

Edit: don't have a source but I am Korean and have spent time in the Korean education system. Anecdotally, this is a part of the arguments made by most anti-feminist Korean men. Also, others have already pointed out that feminism in Korea is perceived to have a more radical bent.


OP/my Edit: No I am not South Korean, but this comes from someone who claims to be one.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I would like to point out that mandatory military service for men and not women isn't "pro-feminist" and actually goes against the basic tenents of feminism, which is equality between men and women.

Saying that Korean men hate feminism because of mandatory military service actually doesn't make any sense, because a society that was pro-feminism would not have sex/gender-based mandatory military service, and would have military service for both men and women (sort of like how the IDF does it).

 

[Gergar12]

I would like to point out that mandatory military service for men and not women isn't "pro-feminist" and actually goes against the basic tenents of feminism, which is equality between men and women.

Saying that Korean men hate feminism because of mandatory military service actually doesn't make any sense, because a society that was pro-feminism would not have sex/gender-based mandatory military service, and would have military service for both men and women (sort of like how the IDF does it).

I think the argument is that forcing South Korean men to be both breadwinners(by getting into a good college, and doing well on exams, etc. then getting a job), and do military service, and to compete against women who have more time to study for exams, and supposedly due to affirmative action makes men angry against feminists who are seen as making the problem worst, worse.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I think the argument is that forcing South Korean men to be both breadwinners(by getting into a good college, and doing well on exams, etc. then getting a job), and do military service, and to compete against women who have more time to study for exams, and supposedly due to affirmative action makes men angry against feminists who are seen as making the problem worst.

But once again, the idea that a man has to be the "breadwinner" isn't a feminist idea.

Like I completely understand their frustration with this system, but their issues don't actually seem to have anything to do with feminism. They're just labeling these as problems with feminism because they (and you) don't seem to understand what feminism is.

 

[Gergar12]

But once again, the idea that a man has to be the "breadwinner" isn't a feminist idea.

Like I completely understand their frustration with this system, but their issues don't actually seem to have anything to do with feminism. They're just labeling these as problems with feminism because they (and you) don't seem to understand what feminism is.

Feminism can mean many things to many people it could mean equity(making things unfair at least for a while to even the playing field for women vs men, what this is), equality(Creating equality of opportunity, but not equality of outcome for both sexes). and it could be TERFs.

For me personally, and likely these men, definitions are less important, but power is. It will increase the power of women relative to men, and this power will be transformed into action from which the exterior world will be shaped. I am not an anti-feminist, but I can't be described as a 4th wave feminist either.

And of course, your dictionary definition is that feminism means equal rights for both sexes.

But do enlighten me on your definition.

 

[Gergar12]

But once again, the idea that a man has to be the "breadwinner" isn't a feminist idea.

Like I completely understand their frustration with this system, but their issues don't actually seem to have anything to do with feminism. They're just labeling these as problems with feminism because they (and you) don't seem to understand what feminism is.

I didn't say their issues have anything to do with feminism, it has to do with South Korea's economic policies, demographics with falling birthrates, lack of immigration, and South Korea's cultural conservatism. Also monopolies with Samsung, and Hyundai as well. But I think for these men it's easier to say feminism sucks, and since they view jobs as a zero-sum game South Korean men are making a decision to attack feminism instead of saying lobby for better economic policies.

The point of this article for me is that you should likely increase economic growth which lots of leftists have no idea how to do if you want social justice you need economic justice to go along with it.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I didn't say their issues have anything to do with feminism

The title of this thread is literally "Young South Korean Men Revolt Against Feminism." Your first sentence is

Apparently, these young men in South Korea are even more against feminism than the older generation in South Korea.

You noted that

A lot of those mentioned South Korean men also hate short hair women, overweight women, and feminist authors.

You also stated that

The problem with feminism is that it cuts across everything.

and

But when it comes to feminist forums it’s always, I get all I want, and you get nothing

For someone who isn't saying that their issues have anything to do with feminism you sure seem to be drawing attention to feminism for no reason if you don't think that it's a problem.

 

[Gergar12]

The title of this thread is literally "Young South Korean Men Revolt Against Feminism." Your first sentence is



You noted that



You also stated that



and



For someone who isn't saying that their issues have anything to do with feminism you sure seem to be drawing attention to feminism for no reason if you don't think that it's a problem.

Read my reply.

Edit replies

"Generally, sexual harassment, rape, wage gaps, abortion the feminists are right."

 

[Worgen]

The funny thing about being on top is that when it looks like someone else might get to the same level as you, it can appear they are suddenly ahead. The problem is that the reality of the situation doesn't really matter, only the perception. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were some right wing people helping to stroke the flames of an already kinda fucked up system and using women as a scape goat to avoid having to fix deeper ingrained issues.

 

[Gergar12]

The funny thing about being on top is that when it looks like someone else might get to the same level as you, it can appear they are suddenly ahead. The problem is that the reality of the situation doesn't really matter, only the perception. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were some right wing people helping to stroke the flames of an already kinda fucked up system and using women as a scape goat to avoid having to fix deeper ingrained issues.

To be fair I don't envy the youth in South Korea. If you are a male you have to do military service in a country that faces North Korea. If you are female the country is not Sweden, and you have to make yourself pretty oftentimes with plastic surgery, and heavy makeup. Not to mention the current crisis with men putting spy cams, and other weird shit.

 

[Terminal Blue]

This thread should be titled "Young South Korean Men Revolt Against Neoliberalism in South Korea (Only They Call Neoliberalism Feminism For Some Reason)"

Honestly, it doesn't seem good to buy into political delusions. South Korea is fucked up because for most of its postwar history it's been a right-wing US puppet state ruled by an autocratic regime trying to please their masters through the worst excesses of unrestrained capitalism, militarism and social conservatism, and the painfully slow transition to democracy hasn't fundamentally ripped out any of the rot at the heart of the system.

Millennial changes are conducive to paranoid fantasies. This is mine: I imagine that the world is ruled by a few rich white men. They control multinational corporations and the media, yet they want even more wealth and power. Their success produces problems they need to manage. Some want their daughters as well as their sons to inherit their power.
- Judith Kegan Gardiner

But I think if there's one thing I've learned in my life, it's that men will tolerate any level of abuse provided its delivered by a man, because being abused by a man allows men to fantasize that they too might be in a position to abuse other men one day.

 

[Gergar12]

This thread should be titled "Young South Korean Men Revolt Against Neoliberalism in South Korea (Only They Call Neoliberalism Feminism For Some Reason)"

Honestly, it doesn't seem good to buy into political delusions. South Korea is fucked up because for most of its postwar history it's been a right-wing US puppet state ruled by an autocratic regime trying to please their masters through the worst excesses of unrestrained capitalism, militarism and social conservatism, and the painfully slow transition to democracy hasn't fundamentally ripped out any of the rot at the heart of the system.

Millennial changes are conducive to paranoid fantasies. This is mine: I imagine that the world is ruled by a few rich white men. They control multinational corporations and the media, yet they want even more wealth and power. Their success produces problems they need to manage. Some want their daughters as well as their sons to inherit their power.
- Judith Kegan Gardiner

But I think if there's one thing I've learned in my life, it's that men will tolerate any level of abuse provided its delivered by a man, because being abused by a man allows men to fantasize that they too might be in a position to abuse other men one day.

They tried that with Moon; he raised the minimum wage, and that backfired leading to high unemployment among the young. the average home price is around 600k USD thanks to his anti-building policy. They are also heavily dependent on exports, hate immigration, and have a myriad of bad policies. But what they need to do is grow the economy which Moon failed to do.

I think they should

1. Increase building of homes(not to China levels tho)

2. Decrease personal house loaning requirements

3. Increase immigration.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Angry people blame their problems on something that isn't to blame, because what is to blame is too scary.

Which people, which problems, why it's scary changes, but same old.

 

[Seanchaidh]

They tried that with Moon; he raised the minimum wage, and that backfired leading to high unemployment among the young. the average home price is around 600k USD thanks to his anti-building policy. They are also heavily dependent on exports, hate immigration, and have a myriad of bad policies. But what they need to do is grow the economy which Moon failed to do.

I think they should

1. Increase building of homes(not to China levels tho)

2. Decrease personal house loaning requirements

3. Increase immigration.

They should join the DPRK

 

[BrawlMan]

Sounds like a bunch of another group of men being bitches blaming their problems on innocents, or those they see a scapegoats and to blame their failures on. Another bunch of MRAs that can't get laid, know how to talk to women, or petty jealously, because someone that is the opposite gender "has it better than them". I don't care how rough or tough your life is, that excuse acting like an asshole to people who did nothing to you. These bitches are the South Korean version of Trump Conservatives and the Alt-Right. I feel nothing for pathetic parasites such as them.

 

[Gergar12]

Sounds like a bunch of another group of men being bitches blaming their problems on innocents, or those they see a scapegoats and to blame their failures on. Another bunch of MRAs that can't get laid, know how to talk to women, or petty jealously, because someone that is the opposite gender "has it better than them". I don't care how rough or tough your life is, that excuse acting like an asshole to people who did nothing to you. These bitches are the South Korean version of Trump Conservatives and the Alt-Right. I feel nothing for pathetic parasites such as them.

My life is not rough, I just saw the news article on NYT, and thought was interesting. I like to look at why social democrats and democratic socialists go wrong. Oftentimes it's because they pursue bad policy, or aren't experienced enough. You don't see it happen with people like Lula for example, and I would argue Bernie Sanders if he had won.

 

[BrawlMan]

My life is not rough, I just saw the news article on NYT, and thought was interesting. I

I was not referring to you, but thanks. They're still unsympathetic assholes.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

But once again, the idea that a man has to be the "breadwinner" isn't a feminist idea.

Like I completely understand their frustration with this system, but their issues don't actually seem to have anything to do with feminism. They're just labeling these as problems with feminism because they (and you) don't seem to understand what feminism is.

A while back I heard a conversation on the radio, where a woman talked about men who didn't want to date women who were more famous/wealthy/powerful than them. "I feel like I wouldn't have the upper hand in the relationship," one man complained to her.

That seems to be a huge part of the "breadwinner" mindset- a lot of men want a woman to be wholly dependent on them, so that she can't just up and leave him whenever she wants and therefore damage his ego and his standing with male friends. Of course, that doesn't jibe with the "everything bad is because of feminism" mindset.

 

[Fallen Soldier]

Another ridiculous thing to be angry about. As if we don’t have real problems facing our planet.