Younger Game of Thrones actors...

BloatedGuppy

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GrimTuesday said:
Amusingly enough, they guy who plays Dagmar in the show, is the same guy who plays David's (Ricky Gervais's character) best friend Finch (the equivalent of Packard from the US version) in the UK version of The Office.
OMG YOU'RE RIGHT. IT'S FINCH. IT'S FUCKING FINCH.

Oh Jesus. Now I definitely won't be able to take him seriously.
 

Plinglebob

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My biggest problem with Season 2 is that there isn't a strong central character to follow. In Season one, while there were a lot of story lines and strong characters, it was all in service to the story of Ned Stark. In season 2 all the story lines are still there, but many feel very aimless with no real point or purpose (Daenerys' and Arya's especially) which (for me anyway) makes it very hard to watch.
 

Aurgelmir

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I honestly don't mind the changes they make in the show, and lets be fair there are some scenes which are more or less identical to the book as well.

What I personally do not like is how fast the show moves. Just to few episodes per season to cover a whole damn book. Aryas story feels very rushed...
 

BloatedGuppy

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Aurgelmir said:
I honestly don't mind the changes they make in the show, and lets be fair there are some scenes which are more or less identical to the book as well.

What I personally do not like is how fast the show moves. Just to few episodes per season to cover a whole damn book. Aryas story feels very rushed...
Stannis as well. He's a major player in season 2 and he's had all of about 5 minutes of screen time. Roz has had more screen time than Stannis.
 

The Diabolical Biz

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So far I'm enjoying this season, even if it has taken certain questionable liberties with the source material.

Especially the dragons being stolen, although I can understand why they might have made that decision. The manner of Sir Roderick's death was a little abrupt, and Theon has been changed perhaps a little too much from the book - he is a little more sympathetic, but more despicable perhaps because of that.

Still, I'm certainly not disappointed at all - as long as they manage to tie it back together.
 

Deathmageddon

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BloatedGuppy said:
Kendarik said:
Books often don't translate well to TV/movies without some changes, especially if you want to bring in more than just the nerd-fan who has the books memorized already.
I'm familiar with the changes that NEED to be made to bring them to screen. Game of Thrones is borderline unfilmable as it is, so the fact they're even trying is admirable. So stuff like losing secondary characters or combining characters, while lamentable, is understandable.

It's the OTHER bullshit. Stuff cut or changed for no apparent reason. And some incredibly weak things added, sopping up screen time that could've gone to stuff that was actually in the story to begin with. It'd be easier to rationalize, say, losing the Reeds and the entire Tully family and 90% of the screen time for the Cleganes if we didn't have Roz the traveling prostitute giving five minutes of pointless sexposition in every episode. Even the folks who have never read the books hate her.

The first season was uneven, but solid. The second season has been a gong show.
I know that feel, bro... I mean they cut out a bunch of characterization for Sansa and Sandor Clegane for some man-on-man body hair removal?! Not to mention the ridiculously long sequence where Littlefinger is "training" Roz. I like looking at breasts as much as anyone, but all this cheap pandering has got to stop.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Hammeroj said:
I haven't read any of the books, but season 2 seemed... Unimpressive to me compared to the first one to say the least. Episode 1 started it off well, but 2 and 3 shat all over my enthusiasm and now I watch the show almost because I feel obligated.

+1 on the Dany's scenes being cringe-worthy sentiment. I almost couldn't bear something like half of them.

You being someone who isn't particularly fond of the second season too, I have to ask out of curiosity if the second and third episodes stood out as by far the worst to you too.

Wouldn't mind if you went into great, great detail on why the season isn't too good either.
The second season is moving at a far more accelerated pace than the first. Partly because it's a longer book, partly because it features a broader array of characters with a less defined central character (Ned's Dead). As I pointed out when discussing other prominent HBO series above, very few scenes are being given an opportunity to breathe. You're just lurching around at breakneck speed. 30 seconds with Tyrion! 20 seconds with Dany! 30 seconds with Robb! Go! Go!

This is a problem that is only going to get worse as they go along, because the novels are comically dense. The ridiculous depth of world building that Martin indulges in is part of makes the books special, but it's difficult if not impossible to bring that to the screen. Which is why it's essential that they make the most of the time they have, and while I think they did a solid job of that in S1, they're falling down as oft as not at it in S2. They're introducing pointless ancillary characters who aren't well acted and who aren't improving the scenes they're in, they're padding out some storylines at the expense of others, and they're tampering with extremely solid dialogue and set pieces and making them demonstrably worse in the process.

As for Episodes 2 and 3...Episode 6 was notably the worst for me, as it was chock full of deviations, to the point where absolutely nothing in it was directly translated from the page. I don't expect a slavish interpretation. As discussed, that would be impossible. But I do expect them to honor the source material and not change things just for the sake of being able to say you changed them.

I would implore you to wait for Season 3 regardless of how Season 2 plays out, because apparently they're splitting the third book into 2 seasons, so that might help address some of the pacing issues. Clash of Kings is also the worst of the first three books, and Storm of Swords arguably the most eventful, so unless the show goes completely into the gutter it'll be worth sticking around at least that long.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Hammeroj said:
...Should I expect anything cool to happen by the end of the season?

Does that piece of shit king die a horrible death?
Do you actually want me to spoil you? Next season especially has a lot of fairly momentous events. Are you sure you want to be spoiled for anything?
 

DanielScott

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You've got to understand though that The Tv show isn't supposed to follow the exact story, it's meant to be a little different to keep it fresh for those who've read the books and i applaud how they've done it.


Think Trueblood in terms of book/tv relationship
 

BloatedGuppy

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Hammeroj said:
Nah, I just asked if anything cool was coming.

But if that little brat dies you can tell me.
Yes, cool stuff is coming in this season. I can't guarantee they won't fuck it up mind you.

Joffrey does not die. Not this season, anyway. Maybe later. =D
 

Goofguy

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BloatedGuppy said:
MetalDooley said:
Have to agree with you here.I am enjoying the show but some of the changes just seem to be for the sake of it rather then because they add to the show.Take the most recent episode for example -
Dany's dragons being stolen.Seriously why did they need to put this in?Was the original scene where she simply goes to the House of the Undying with one of the dragons unfilmable?Or did they simply,as seems more likely,throw this in for dramatic effect?I mean the books where hardly lacking in dramatic moments so why the fuck do they need to make one up
The Dany scene irked (I was screaming THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN at the screen), but as you suggest I think they felt the House of the Undying sequence wouldn't translate well to television, and they're probably right. I'm a little confused as to why Doreah is the lone survivor of Dany's Khalasar at this point, though, when she was the only one who died in the book.

Robb's new love interest is going to cause serious injury to the Red Wedding unless she, as some have speculated, is actually Jeyne Westerling in disguise.

Ygritte runs instead of Jon letting her go...why? That was a significant character moment for Jon.

No Reek at Winterfell, so possibly no faux-flaying of Bran and Rickon.

The Ironmen changed from wild-eyed, battle obsessed, hulking Viking standins to lanky, bedraggled brigands.

Littlefinger telling Sansa about the Hound's backstory instead of the Hound doing it himself, turning a chilling scene into a weird, sleazy one.

I could go on and on, really.
I agree with you.

I'm really hoping Robb's love interest turns out to be Jeyne in disguise. I see no reason why not. In the books, she was introduced out of left field as his wife with us having no previous knowledge of House Westerling. The same thing could work on the TV adaptation.

While all your points are valid (and you did mention you could go on), I was very irked by Rodrik's scene. I guess if there is no Reek in Winterfell, then we'll just see Ramsay and his army riding up to Winterfell and have them take it back from the Ironmen without betraying Cassel and the other Northmen. Not too impressed with omitting that whole part.
 

Justyn Stahll

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Never watched the TV show because after I saw the cast (A few months after the show was released and I started reading the books) They did'nt look "Right" in my head.

Also is it just me or does Arya's actor look more like Catelyn's Actor (Don't know thier names, and to lazy to look XD )
 

BloatedGuppy

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Goofguy said:
I agree with you.

I'm really hoping Robb's love interest turns out to be Jeyne in disguise. I see no reason why not. In the books, she was introduced out of left field as his wife with us having no previous knowledge of House Westerling. The same thing could work on the TV adaptation.

While all your points are valid (and you did mention you could go on), I was very irked by Rodrik's scene. I guess if there is no Reek in Winterfell, then we'll just see Ramsay and his army riding up to Winterfell and have them take it back from the Ironmen without betraying Cassel and the other Northmen. Not too impressed with omitting that whole part.
I actually got asked by someone to make a list of deviations between book and show to this point in time. I babbled out the ones I could think of off the top of my head. Rodrik's death was one of them. It's below, in spoilers. It should be relatively safe of spoilers moving forward for show watchers, but if you're EXTREMELY spoiler adverse and don't even want vague references to future events be warned.

In the very first episode of the first season, when Jon says goodbye to Bran, Catelyn stops him. Calls him by his name. He stops, and she says 'It should've been you'. Likely altered so people would sympathize more with Catelyn.

The character of Roz (the prostitute) does not exist in the books. At all. She's introduced in the show as a way to give Littlefinger more screen time.

Speaking of which, Littlefinger plays a very minor part in the first two books, it has been expanded significantly here. He's also 500% more smarmy onscreen for some reason.

Shae is much older and more worldly onscreen than in the books. She's also foreign in the show, and was not in the books. Book Shae is more bratty/youthful, and less sophisticated. Ironically, the character of Shae is becoming closer to the one in the book in season 2.

Littlefinger telling Sansa the story of how the Hound got burned. That's a big one. In the book, the Hound tells her. In a particularly menacing way, and threatens to kill her if she tells anyone. As Sandor/Sansa have a unique kind of relationship in the books, it was a bizarre re-write, and poorly acted by Gillen in the bargain.

Tyrion does not lecture Jon to be nicer at the wall. Tyrion, book Tyrion anyway, likely wouldn't have given a shit what Jon was up to. Jon was lectured by the armorer Donal Noye, who called him "A bully and a bastard". It was actually one of the strongest moments of the books and a good character building moment for Jon.

Tyrion did not get knocked out on the way to the battle against Robb's forces. He fought, and took a mild wound. I suspect this was changed for budget reasons. Not a big deal.

Catelyn's Uncle, Brynden Tully, is a fairly significant character through the first four books. He's been written out entirely. As too apparently have her father and brother, both of whom play not insignificant roles.

Meera and Jojen Reed play a very significant role in the 2nd book in Bran's storyline. They've been written out entirely.

Roose Bolton is supposed to be soft spoken to the point of whispering. In the show, he's been blustery. Odd change.

Margaery Tyrell is meant to be 16, but I like Natalie Dormer a lot so this is alright.

Stannis is never seen having sex with Melisandre, nor does she ever promise him a son. Stannis also has a daughter in the books, who seems to have been written out (and who plays a minor but not entirely insignificant role in a later plot line).

Davos has something like 7 sons. They've been condensed into one for show purposes.

Arya was not captured by Amory Lorch, nor did the Night's Watch fight a battle in the middle of a field. They defended the holdfast, and Arya, Hot Pie, Lommy and Gendry escaped, to be later captured by The Mountain and some of his men, including Polliver and The Tickler. Although Yoren does die in the books, he did not die a heroic death whilst cutting down a half dozen men.

Irri and Rakharo do not die in Dany's storyline. In fact Doreah is the only one who dies in the Red Wastes, and is presently the only one left alive in the show.

Robb does not ever meet a nurse named Talissa. This is either a new character, or (possibly) an alteration of a character who does not appear until the third book. Depending on how this plays out it could have MAJOR effects on later events.

Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions have either been written out of the show, or are not going to appear until the third season. They played a small role in book 2.

Tywin Lannister never met Arya at Harrenhall, and Arya was never his cupbearer. She was a serving girl under a cruel man named Wease. Wease was one of the two kills Jacquen H'ghar performed for her. The other one was one of the Mountain's Men, whose name escapes me. It was not Amory Lorch. Nor was one of her kills The Tickler, whose death in season 2 now alters a significant scene in season 3.

Jorah Mormont never gives Dany an impassioned speech about sailing to Westeros and making the people rise up for her. Quite the opposite actually, he's quite ruthlessly pragmatic in the books. She doesn't marry Xaros because as per Quarthian marriage custom, she would have owed him a gift of his choice that she could not refuse, and he would have chosen a dragon.

Dany's dragons are never kidnapped, and her Khalasar never murdered. That's entirely new.

Ygritte does not escape. Jon lets her go. Significant character building moment for Jon. He also does not run off after/with her.

Jon never sees Craster giving up a son to The Others (called The White Walkers in the show), and is never knocked out by Craster, and never catches shit about it from the old bear.

Qhorin Halfhand requests Jon Snow come with him on the ranging. Jon doesn't ask to go.

Bran never stands up to Theon when Theon seizes the castle. He's confused and scared. Theon also doesn't do it in the middle of the fucking day, they scale the walls at night.

There's never any confusion about whether it might be the Lannisters attacking Torrhen's Square. It's known all along that it's Iron Men. Weird, pointless change.

Ser Rodrik Cassel was not killed by Theon at Winterfell. He wasn't even at Winterfell. He was at Torrhen's Square.

The Iron Men in general are much changed. In the books they are puissant warriors, very similar to Scandinavian Vikings in manner and appearance. In the show they look like dirty, ragged bandits.

When Rodrik Cassel is killed in the show, Dagmar (who was also at Torrhen's Square in the book) says he needs to "pay the iron price". Paying the iron price means killing a man to take what he owns instead of buying it with gold. Weird misappropriation.

Renly is not stabbed by the Shadow, it slits his throat (through his armor, no less). Catelyn and Brienne are the only ones who see it happen, and Brienne is suspected for a long time. Loras, for instance, believes its her for quite a while.

A not insignificant subplot involving a 2nd shadow, the castle of Storm's End, and a bastard son of Robert's has all been cut.

Tyrion's character in general is much changed. He's still witty and affable in the books, and very smart, but he's bordering on a Mary Sue in the show. A lot of his less genial moments have been cut or slightly altered to make him more sympathetic. For instance, he threatens to have Tommen raped and beaten if Cersei harms a prostitute.

Shae does work as Sansa's handmaid for a time, but Sansa never trusted or liked her on any level.

The wolves are under-represented in the show, but that's alright. CGI is expensive.

The entire Riverlands have been cut along with the Tullys, more or less. They were part of Robb's host, and also part of Robb's kingdom. King of the North and the Riverlands. So basically one of the 7 kingdoms has just curiously been omitted entirely. Perhaps we will see the Tully's and the Riverlands in season 3. I'm not holding my breath.

Numerous smaller characters and subplots have been changed or abandoned. Same with lines of dialogue, some made worse. Tons of needless whorehouse scenes have been added in their place.

Joffrey's cruelty and stupidity have been dialed up to 11 in the show. He was always cruel and stupid but it's at ludicrous levels in the show. The beating/abuse of the prostitutes, for example, never happened. Still, Joffrey is a monstrous prick either way, so it's hard to get too ruffled about that.

You'll be introduced to Ramsey Snow, possibly this season. He's meant to already be in Winterfell, under a different name. This has MAJOR implications for events in this book, and future books. No idea why they've gone about it this way.

Asha (Yara) is a lot more charming and a lot less brittle in the books. No idea why they've written her the way they have for the show. Balon is pretty on the nose though.

Numerous significant Ironmen characters are missing. They go on to play moderate to major roles later on. As the Ironmen sections in the books have often been decried as examples of Martin over-indulging in side plots, this may be an area where HBO decided to do judicious pruning.

Bronn was never made captain of the guard. Given Bronn's general personality, the very idea of it is somewhat ludicrous. That position went to Ser Jaclyn Bywater. Done to condense the number of character on screen, no doubt.

Sansa was not almost raped in the riot. A secondary character who featured prominently in several books was. She was almost dragged off her horse though. And while Tyrion's chastisement of Joffrey was entertaining, it was altered from the book, which did the same scene better and with the same amount of dialogue.

The Pyromancers were never making Wildfire for Cersei. Tyrion just stumbles across the fact there's thousands of jars of it festering under the city and decides to try and make use of it.

A fairly significant subplot involving a giant chain that Tyrion has made is either cut or not yet started.

Stannis is actually being reasonably well portrayed, but is positively starved for screen time. We've also not heard anything about his goofy magic sword, which gets prominent mention at numerous junctures.

The scene with Melisandre and the poison was poorly framed. She drank first, and the guy wasn't half dead already by the time she took her drink. Was a weird way to shoot that.

My girlfriend wandered through and told me I should also mention the complete omission of the Kingswood Brotherhood. They were briefly mentioned once by The Tickler. I know a lot of show watchers were confused by that scene. Who the fuck is this Brotherhood, they asked. Too bad for you show watchers! CUT FOR TIME!

I suspect we'll see a bit of them in S3, although at the pace we're moving "a bit" might amount to 4 minutes.
 

anthony87

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BloatedGuppy said:
Meera and Jojen Reed play a very significant role in the 2nd book in Bran's storyline. They've been written out entirely.

I'm okay with the slight changes. I don't even mind the reworking of Arya's story because it means more Tywin Lannister on screen, but that bit in the spoilers really annoys me. I was looking forward to see how they'd be portrayed.

(If you decide to reply to this, please bear in mind that I'm only on A Feast for Crows at the moment ^_^)
 

BloatedGuppy

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anthony87 said:
I'm okay with the slight changes. I don't even mind the reworking of Arya's story because it means more Tywin Lannister on screen, but that bit in the spoilers really annoys me. I was looking forward to see how they'd be portrayed.

(If you decide to reply to this, please bear in mind that I'm only on A Feast for Crows at the moment ^_^)
I guess there's always a possibility they could try and find some way to write them in later, but it's certainly not looking good for them. They'll not be in S2 at all.

Until last episode I wasn't even sure we'd be getting Ramsey. There was a lot of talk of combining him with Roose.

And yeah...that list is nowhere near comprehensive, and some of the stuff in there is minor, and I certainly don't expect it'll bother everyone. But a few of the things really stick in my craw.
 

Goofguy

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BloatedGuppy said:
All very valid points but some are justified in their omissions. It's been a while since I read the books so I'm having a hard time differentiating between them:

The Brotherhood first showed up in A Clash of Kings? Of all the books' characters, Beric was one of the ones I was most excited to see portrayed on TV. It might not be too late for this season...

I do want to see the Riverlands and I sincerely hope the Tullys are included soon because an other of the characters I want to see most is the Blackfish.

And I agree 100% with your statement on Asha (Yara). I always considered her to be one of the stronger female characters but in the TV series, she comes across as somewhat wooden in her performance and also, kind of douche-y. I was torn between her and Victarion during the Kingsmoot however, I won't be feeling the same way for Yara in the TV series IF this scene is shown.