Your Favorite Game Sucks

[Mezzo.]

This reminds me of a book called Blink!, talking about this same sort of thing. You got it spot on in that people will judge everything immediately and forming their opinions about it. You shouldn't necessarily rely on them, per se, but they shouldn't be ignored either.

Hell, that's how I came to love certain games is seeing them over and over in previews and walkthroughs before buying them. And I've enjoyed them and loved them ever since.

 

[Gjarble]

This article seems to conflate not liking a game with thinking it is a bad game. Your focus is upon prejudging a game so as to avoid wasting money. While this is necessary to be anything approaching a reasonable consumer of any medium, letting dislike get to the point of believing that the author is a hack, that other people shouldn't like the work, or that the work is outright morally objectionable requires a great deal more experience than those provided by previews, reviews, and the like. Farmville's kind of a bad example, as reading about Zynga's dubiously legal shenanigans to gain profit allow people to raise reasonable moral objection, no experience with the game necessary. So, I'll use your Twilight example instead: It is reasonable to have heard about the book and decide that you won't like it before even reading it. It is not reasonable to decry its treatment of vampires, women, or its audience's IQ before having read at least a few chapters of Meyer's actual WORDS. Otherwise, you can only know secondhand what such treatment actually entails. This is a problem because the details are easily skewed by those who already have a strong opinion about the book (in either direction). If you do have such objections to a work, it is fine to discuss it in a mature manner with those who disagree with you, but if you don't actually know what you're talking about, on what grounds do your opinions stand?

EDIT: For the record, I also disagree with those who say that Yahtzee was "biased" when he reviewed SSBB, or at least that his opinions were invalid on those grounds. I greatly enjoy Brawl, but the game flat-out REQUIRES a great deal of experience with Nintendo games (that is, a pro-Nintendo bias) to derive half of its enjoyment. The concept is even marketed as a form of wish-fulfillment; a resolution to the typical nerd fantasy of "who would win in a fight" that is only of relevance to Nintendo fans. Thus, non-Nintendo fans should not be expected to enjoy the game, and for them, Yahtzee's opinion is perhaps the best gauge of whether or not they would like the game. This contributes to a large portion of Yahtzee's criticism of the game ("Who the hell is Marth, and why is getting him considered a reward?"), and the rest of it, if memory serves me, were more minor points. The only thing Yahtzee criticizes that I take issue with is the allegedly too-far-zoomed-out camera... but who knows? Maybe us SSB fans have an easier time because our eyes have been trained by the frantic pace of the previous games. The camera IS farther away than in the original and Melee, and some specific character situations can produce particularly hard-to-see results (try playing a green Mr. Game and Watch on Smashville at night, or telling the difference between a blue and black Marth)

 

[Towowo2]

It is impossible to present your opinion as fact without saying something ridiculous like, "Research shows that Twilight sucks." If you're offended by someone offering their opinion without a big disclaimer that what they say is in fact their own subjective view of the matter, you lack conviction in your own opinions and need to get over it. Just about everything a person says that isn't either a math problem or a dry description of the current weather conditions is an opinion. Informing them that they still only speak for themselves just makes you look insecure.

Not really my intended point. I simply meant that people can put a little more effort to word them better, sure you can't please everyone but does it mean you shouldn't put effort into it.
I expect people to backup their opinions as well.

 

[Truehare]

You know, I see a lot of people here confusing "stating your opinion" with "being a troll". There is a big difference there, folks.

Let me give you an example: If I say "this game is a big pile of dog shit", that is just my opinion. But if I say "this game is a big pile of dog shit and everyone who likes it is a stupid dogshit-eater", then I'm being an asshole.

Can you see the difference? Stating an opinion about something, be it a game, movie, book or ice cream, shouldn't be considered offensive to anyone or anything but the game/movie/book/ice cream itself. I'm not trying to offend people who have a different opinion than mine.

People in general and fanboys in particular should learn to stop taking everything so bloody personally.

 

[tautologico]

People need to learn how to articulate their opinions better and try not to present it as fact.

It's the other way around: people need to learn that everything I say that is subjective is my opinion. It would be redundant, tiring and pointless to repeatedly state "that's just my opinion".

If someone says "game X sucks!!!1one", then of course it's his opinion. There's no anointed comittee that will decide which games suck and which don't, everyone has their opinion. It's not an objective, factual sentence, so it can ONLY be opinion.

A friend of mine, when he says something and someone responds "but that's just YOUR opinion", he then says: "no, it's not, this is the opinion from that old lady at the end of the street; now I'll state MY opinion"

 

[Jaqen Hghar]

So true Mr. Shamus. I am usually very vocal about things I dislike, but before I am so I usually research the things a bit more. In case, as you say it, I might miss out on something that I at first don't seem to like. Researching these things have more often than not made me dislike the thing in question even more. This includes games like Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid to movies and books like Twilight.

Why do I spend time researching these things if I don't like them? Because whenever you say you don't like something, the usual reply will be "well, have you tried/listened to/read it?" At least I can then answer "No, but I know at least as much as you do about the subject, maybe even more" instead of just "no". Because then the answer will be "Well, you just don't have a valid opinion then". So thank you Shamus for putting this out there.

 

[Lillowh]

(Don't take this as me defending fan boys, but to be honest, anyone who blindly criticises a game without playing it is equally guilty of trolling it up)

QFT. Fanboys are stupid IMO (why can't people be happy for other people who enjoy the same hobby they do but have differing opinions). If you have not played the game, and have no interest in playing it you should not comment about it because it's stupid and immature because all you're doing is acting like the 5 year old who kept saying his toys were better than yours (even though he hasn't seen them) and if you try to argue with him he just plugs his ears with his fingers and yells "la la la la la i'm not listening la la la la la" THAT is EXACTLY what you're acting like if you say a game "sucks" or is "mainstream drab" if you haven't played it yet. go play your indie and "art" games ya hippie[jk on the hippy part don't flame me], if you don't like mainstream games good for you, you don't need to put it in every post just because most mainstream games are actually really good. I'm pretty sure the people that slam mainstream games are just like those people who want to be with the "cool" crowd and will say "me too" when it comes to "fighting the power (mainstream media).

 

[tautologico]

It is impossible to present your opinion as fact without saying something ridiculous like, "Research shows that Twilight sucks." If you're offended by someone offering their opinion without a big disclaimer that what they say is in fact their own subjective view of the matter, you lack conviction in your own opinions and need to get over it. Just about everything a person says that isn't either a math problem or a dry description of the current weather conditions is an opinion. Informing them that they still only speak for themselves just makes you look insecure.

I was ninja'd while writing my post. But yes, exactly. People need to stop with "but it's just YOUR opinion". Well, of course it is.

 

[aldowyn]

My internet life is largely formed around learning information, forming opinions, and sharing opinions with other people, on games I have never played. You could ask me about almost any recent AAA game, and I could tell you what I think about it -- and I've never played more than 3/4 of them! I'm planning on recording a podcast later today on Reach, and my sole experience is from a ton of reviews and previews, word-of-mouth, and a bit of live coverage!

 

[Impluse_101]

My internet life is largely formed around learning information, forming opinions, and sharing opinions with other people, on games I have never played. You could ask me about almost any recent AAA game, and I could tell you what I think about it -- and I've never played more than 3/4 of them! I'm planning on recording a podcast later today on Reach, and my sole experience is from a ton of reviews and previews, word-of-mouth, and a bit of live coverage!

Orly.... *Suave eyes*

Edit: Mwuahahhaaha~

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

If you can't hate something until you've tried it: How many people hate crystal meth?

 

[Impluse_101]

If you can't hate something until you've tried it: How many people hate crystal meth?

Thats an entirely differnet subject for another time.

 

[Casual Shinji]

But it begs the question; if you don't like a game, and you haven't tried it, why are you getting involved in an argument over something you clearly have no interest in in the first place? If you'd played the game, or even demoed it, and had genuine criticism for it, then I think its something to discuss, but wading into the troll pit blindfolded is not bringing anything to the table except bad feeling.

Nicely put.

A lot of people in the comments section of Zero Punctuation just want to be in on the feeding frenzy eventhough they never played the game and probably had no prior interest in it to begin with.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Theres all sorts of reasons to hate games you have never played, but fanboys are fanatics. They will read how you don't like a game, hassle you for it, then 5 minutes later go back to being "right" about their game. Being on the Internet means if you share your opinion then there will be those who don't like it. To the fanboys, my credo is simple; "Who cares what you think."

 

[jebussaves88]

If you can't hate something until you've tried it: How many people hate crystal meth?

People don't hate the taste of crystal meth; they hate its effect on society. That's different. If Halo Reach was causing mass infertility, tooth loss and discolouration of the skin, then we would have every right to tell the Halo fanboys to button it. But it isn't, so we kind of don't, unless we've played it and are now chewing with our gums and firing blanks.

 

[Loonerinoes]

I find it funny that many people seemed to have agreed with #2 from last week, especially considering that outside these forums most other people, that have not checked out the Escapist or its forums and only heard of it from reputation, consider it as 'That elitist place, that loves Yahtzee and criticizing anything.'

I suppose in light of that information, this article is indeed badly needed. Though personally I've grown to despise the opposite spectrum a bit more as of late. All the snarky forum trolls and posters of furyyyyy who feel the need to detract and hate on things at every moment of every day in the hopes of 'drowning out' the fanboys of popular things (or at least such has been my experience from the SWTOR forums as of late).

Honestly, fanboys might make people squirm at times, but the elitists that feel the need to 'express their opinions' over a subject at least 5 times every day and put down the fans on forums really are the saddest of the bunch that have recently driven me away from forums far moreso than any fanboy. Especially since I used to be one of them and am pretty sure I know exactly how they feel they're 'obligated' to 'bring people down to reality' whereas in fact they should maybe just let go of arguing over fictional entities and works of art and enjoy life a bit more for a change rather than trying to change it over the freaking internet, where their 'actions' amount to, as ED put it, pissing in an ocean of piss.

So yeah, last week's article is still prefferable for me, since it's more wonderfully balanced and succinct. But still, if people fail to detect sarcasm over a certain point, it's only fair to clarify it so. Fair enough article.

 

[Mr. Omega]

You know, I see a lot of people here confusing "stating your opinion" with "being a troll". There is a big difference there, folks.

Let me give you an example: If I say "this game is a big pile of dog shit", that is just my opinion. But if I say "this game is a big pile of dog shit and everyone who likes it is a stupid dogshit-eater", then I'm being an asshole.

Can you see the difference? Stating an opinion about something, be it a game, movie, book or ice cream, shouldn't be considered offensive to anyone or anything but the game/movie/book/ice cream itself. I'm not trying to offend people who have a different opinion than mine.

People in general and fanboys in particular should learn to stop taking everything so bloody personally.

Exactly. I never played certian games and don't like them, like Halo, but I can understand the appeal of it. It's just not my kind of game. I don't rage at Halo fans, I just say I don't like Halo. Agree to disagree, people!

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

If Halo Reach was causing mass infertility, tooth loss and discolouration of the skin,...

Must. Not. Reply. Must. Be. Strong.

 

[Greetz_DK]

What I take issue with is people verbally dismissing a game via the internet at the very people who are likely to take issue with the criticism they are levelling at it when the person has no contact with the game short of demoing it. SO I think saying its fine to bad mouth a game without playing it is sort of reckless.

But as Shamus writes in his article you can form an opinion of what the game is like on a lot of subjects. What studio made it? What games do they have in their library? Does the game mechanics seem interesting? What about the genre, the story, the settings and so on.

All of these tings must be taken into account when forming an opinion of what a game is like, and if you would be able to like it based on those merits.

When gathering data you look at gameplay videos and read information about the game. I personally haven't bought a game i that were not carefully studied, hence i rarely waste my hard earned greens.

If we were to buy games, that only people who had played the game, could honestly tell us about. Then our opinions would naturally go with the majority. Since they would have to be right. Genre wouldn't matter since a lack of data would render us unable to determine whether its a good game or it just isn't the genre we would be interested in.

I for one dislike Halo Reach. I know its a glossed up version of Halo with slightly improved graphics (and FPS just isn't to my liking). But if were unable to share my thoughts about game design and etc. we would be unable to discuss in details. Maybe by having a meaningful conversation i would give it a chance and like it? (But so far no one has reached beyond: "Its Halo stupid!".

 

[jebussaves88]

You know, I see a lot of people here confusing "stating your opinion" with "being a troll". There is a big difference there, folks.

Let me give you an example: If I say "this game is a big pile of dog shit", that is just my opinion. But if I say "this game is a big pile of dog shit and everyone who likes it is a stupid dogshit-eater", then I'm being an asshole.

Can you see the difference? Stating an opinion about something, be it a game, movie, book or ice cream, shouldn't be considered offensive to anyone or anything but the game/movie/book/ice cream itself. I'm not trying to offend people who have a different opinion than mine.

People in general and fanboys in particular should learn to stop taking everything so bloody personally.

Exactly. I never played certian games and don't like them, like Halo, but I can understand the appeal of it. It's just not my kind of game. I don't rage at Halo fans, I just say I don't like Halo. Agree to disagree, people!

Thats fine. You're entitled to your opinion. I don't like Halo any more either. But, assuming when you said "I just say I don't like Halo", it was on an internet forum concerning Halo, what did you hope to gain by voicing this opinion? You haven't played it, you have no actual criticism based on experience. So why did you bother? All that could happen is that you drew attention to yourself from people who have an informed, or maybe even overly biased opinion that contradicts yours. You don't have anything else to add except "Haven't tried it, don't care to". As far as I'm concerned, that's either a waste of time, or openly trolling those people who you know did like it.

Snip

I don't take issue with people forming their opinions without playing the game. I too dismiss games that I know I won't like. What I DON'T do, or agree with, is to go and argue with people who do like it, as I would have no ground to stand on in such an argument. And an argument is what anyone who puts themselves in this position ought to expect. Okay, so I don't like that developer, or its past works, or that genre. Then why should I expect anyone to care what I think in that conversation/forum topic?

Now in the case of Zynga, there is ground to stand on, as constant news coverage shows how corrupt they are. I actually have played one of their games, and grew bored, and I may even occasionally voice an opinion against Zynga, but only because I have played one of their games (which are free-to-play potentially, so there's no excuse) and because I know what scamsters they are. It is a warning to those pulled into their scam.