People have started to leave more than one unpopular opinion per thread, so okay, I'll chip in:
I'm sure there's others I can think of, but they're the ones off the top of my head.
But as for my opinion here...well, here's the thing. Empire doesn't really have any major flaws in the same way that, say, Phantom or Clones has, and it's arguably a less flawed movie than Jedi. However, I do have the following gripes with the movie:
So, yeah. I don't think Empire is a bad film, and it does take my #4 Star Wars film spot. And as you can tell, a lot of these gripes are subjective, and I do admit that Jedi probably has more flaws. But Jedi also has higher highs than Empire for me, and Empire...there's something about the film that just feels off to me. Very unpopular opinion (hence why I chose it), but I'm afraid all I can be is honest.
-The Game of Thrones TV series might be better than the books (hard to say, but I feel books 4 and 5 bogged down a lot, whereas the TV show, at the least, is much better paced).
-Advance Wars: Days of Ruin is a good game, and the #2 Advance Wars game at that.
-Adventure Time is hot garbage and I won't be sad to see it go.
-Avatar: The Last Airbender (the film) isn't a bad film. It's a bog standard average one that barely leaves any impact, and is a pale imitation when compared to the cartoon, but it isn't outright bad.
-Avatar (the James Cameron movie) is a very good movie that if anything, subverts cliche.
-Battlefield Earth (the movie) likewise isn't a bad movie, just a very flawed one. I admittedly still enjoyed it, even if some of its plot points are outright bonkers.
-Battlestar Galactica (reboot series) had a good ending and a good final season. While Season 4 is the worst season, its flaws are more due to pacing than its plot points.
-Captain Planet and the Planeteers hasn't aged particuarly well, but it deserves better than to be the laughing stock of the cartoon world. It has its heart in the right place, and isn't as preachy as people make it out to be.
-Red Alert 3>Red Alert 2 (for Command and Conquer)
-Diablo III is the best Diablo game.
-Doom 3 is the best Doom game.
-The Expanse novels are pretty lacklustre.
-Half-Life 2 is...fine. It's enjoyable. It's a net positive. But it isn't the masterpiece so many claim it to be.
-Halo 5 is a good game, better than Halo 4 and even Halo 2.
-Indiana Jones is overrated.
-The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past is overrated. While I won't deny its influence, it's easily superseeded by games such as Minish Cap, and most of all, A Link Between Worlds.
-The Jackson Hobbit films are good. Not nearly as good as the Lord of the Rings films, but still good at the end of the day.
-The MCU...isn't that great.
-The Matrix: Reloaded is a good movie. Not as good as the original, but still good (I'm inclined to defend Revolutions as well, but that's just average.
-Super Metroid is a good game, but Zero Mission and Fusion are better.
-Pan (the movie) is enjoyable, warts and all.
-Prince of Persia is the best videogame adaptation movie (sorry Mortal Kombat).
-The Freelancer saga of Red vs. Blue is garbage. The series should have ended with season 5, or season 8 at the very least. The series worked much better as a comedy than a drama, and Monty, while I hate to speak ill of the dead, did a number on the series, putting an emphasis on spectacle over writing.
-Regular Show is just "meh."
-Resident Evil 5 is a good game. Bit too actiony, but still good.
-The Inheritance Cycle gets too much flak. Eragon (the book) is derivative, but its sequels improve in terms of plot, worldbuilding, and writing. Not a fantasy masterpiece, but not creatively bankrupt.
-Shannara was never good. Sword of Shannara is riffing off Lord of the Rings, but while the books get more original afterwards, they never enter "good" territory, but stay in pulp fantasy territory.
-The Simpsons didn't magically just stop being good at 'The Principal and the Pauper' (I'm actually inclined to defend that episode). It's long past its golden years, but there's still good to be had post season 9, even though it doesn't reach the same highs of its early seasons.
-StarCraft II>StarCraft I
-Stargate: Universe>Stargate: Atlantis
-Star Trek as a franchise is overrated.
-Terminator: Salvation & Terminator: Genisys are good films. Not nearly as good as T1/T2, but still good. And by extension, T3 is the weakest Terminator film.
-Tron: Legacy>Tron Vanilla (though they're pretty comparable, they have different strengths and weaknesses)
-Warhammer Fantasy Battle>Warhammer 40,000 (as a setting)
-Alien 3 and Alien: Covenant are good films, albiet not as good as Alien/Aliens.
-Aliens: Colonial Marines is a good game.
-Law and Order is "bleh."
-Arrow>The Flash (for the TV series).
-The Star Wars prequels are net positives, with Revenge being pretty damn good. Not nearly as good as the OT, but there's far more to them than Disney's offerings (as an aggregate, my Star Wars film rankings mix and mesh).
-Advance Wars: Days of Ruin is a good game, and the #2 Advance Wars game at that.
-Adventure Time is hot garbage and I won't be sad to see it go.
-Avatar: The Last Airbender (the film) isn't a bad film. It's a bog standard average one that barely leaves any impact, and is a pale imitation when compared to the cartoon, but it isn't outright bad.
-Avatar (the James Cameron movie) is a very good movie that if anything, subverts cliche.
-Battlefield Earth (the movie) likewise isn't a bad movie, just a very flawed one. I admittedly still enjoyed it, even if some of its plot points are outright bonkers.
-Battlestar Galactica (reboot series) had a good ending and a good final season. While Season 4 is the worst season, its flaws are more due to pacing than its plot points.
-Captain Planet and the Planeteers hasn't aged particuarly well, but it deserves better than to be the laughing stock of the cartoon world. It has its heart in the right place, and isn't as preachy as people make it out to be.
-Red Alert 3>Red Alert 2 (for Command and Conquer)
-Diablo III is the best Diablo game.
-Doom 3 is the best Doom game.
-The Expanse novels are pretty lacklustre.
-Half-Life 2 is...fine. It's enjoyable. It's a net positive. But it isn't the masterpiece so many claim it to be.
-Halo 5 is a good game, better than Halo 4 and even Halo 2.
-Indiana Jones is overrated.
-The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past is overrated. While I won't deny its influence, it's easily superseeded by games such as Minish Cap, and most of all, A Link Between Worlds.
-The Jackson Hobbit films are good. Not nearly as good as the Lord of the Rings films, but still good at the end of the day.
-The MCU...isn't that great.
-The Matrix: Reloaded is a good movie. Not as good as the original, but still good (I'm inclined to defend Revolutions as well, but that's just average.
-Super Metroid is a good game, but Zero Mission and Fusion are better.
-Pan (the movie) is enjoyable, warts and all.
-Prince of Persia is the best videogame adaptation movie (sorry Mortal Kombat).
-The Freelancer saga of Red vs. Blue is garbage. The series should have ended with season 5, or season 8 at the very least. The series worked much better as a comedy than a drama, and Monty, while I hate to speak ill of the dead, did a number on the series, putting an emphasis on spectacle over writing.
-Regular Show is just "meh."
-Resident Evil 5 is a good game. Bit too actiony, but still good.
-The Inheritance Cycle gets too much flak. Eragon (the book) is derivative, but its sequels improve in terms of plot, worldbuilding, and writing. Not a fantasy masterpiece, but not creatively bankrupt.
-Shannara was never good. Sword of Shannara is riffing off Lord of the Rings, but while the books get more original afterwards, they never enter "good" territory, but stay in pulp fantasy territory.
-The Simpsons didn't magically just stop being good at 'The Principal and the Pauper' (I'm actually inclined to defend that episode). It's long past its golden years, but there's still good to be had post season 9, even though it doesn't reach the same highs of its early seasons.
-StarCraft II>StarCraft I
-Stargate: Universe>Stargate: Atlantis
-Star Trek as a franchise is overrated.
-Terminator: Salvation & Terminator: Genisys are good films. Not nearly as good as T1/T2, but still good. And by extension, T3 is the weakest Terminator film.
-Tron: Legacy>Tron Vanilla (though they're pretty comparable, they have different strengths and weaknesses)
-Warhammer Fantasy Battle>Warhammer 40,000 (as a setting)
-Alien 3 and Alien: Covenant are good films, albiet not as good as Alien/Aliens.
-Aliens: Colonial Marines is a good game.
-Law and Order is "bleh."
-Arrow>The Flash (for the TV series).
-The Star Wars prequels are net positives, with Revenge being pretty damn good. Not nearly as good as the OT, but there's far more to them than Disney's offerings (as an aggregate, my Star Wars film rankings mix and mesh).
I'm sure there's others I can think of, but they're the ones off the top of my head.
Oh, so we get to ask the hows and whys here? Excellent. I can now grill everyone. ^_^Silentpony said:
But as for my opinion here...well, here's the thing. Empire doesn't really have any major flaws in the same way that, say, Phantom or Clones has, and it's arguably a less flawed movie than Jedi. However, I do have the following gripes with the movie:
-Tone. Now, this isn't a bad thing in of itself, and is purely in the realm of subjectivity, but looking at the OT as a whole, Empire's tone feels out of place next to Hope and Jedi. It's darker, more militaristic, and less 'classical.' As in, Hope feels like an adventure story, one with space wizards and moon-sized space stations. Empire...doesn't. Many people love Empire for it, but for me personally, while not bad, it feels out of place in the context of its trilogy. And on the topic, I don't get it when people say that Empire is morally ambiguous. Um, how? The Empire's still clearly the bad guys here.
-Effects. Very minor point, but I feel that of the OT, Empire has aged the most visually. The tuntum stop motion for instance, and the Battle of Hoth shows its age in some cases. Not make or break, but again, I feel it's superseeded by its predecessors.
-Setting Gap: There's something very jarring about Empire compared to Hope when it comes to the three year period. Han's a general, and has been with the Rebellion for three years. So why hasn't the Rebellion just paid off Jabba for him if he's valuable enough to them to be a general? And if he is a general, how come he gets to go out and do the dirty work himself? Nitpicks, yeah, but I never got what's up with Han by this point. I mean, didn't the Rebellion pay him at the end of Hope? Can't he pay off Jabba and call it quits? Maybe the EU explains this, but ideally, the film should stand on its own. Jedi has a setting gap too (e.g. Luke getting a green lightsaber), but it's far less jarring a gap.
-Pacing: This applies to about 80% of the film, covering everything from Luke landing on Dagobah to him reaching Bespin. Empire feels at odds with itself here, as it spreads itself over two plotlines. Ideally, Luke's time on Dagobah should be slow, as he trains in the Force, as he meditates and all that. Ideally, Han and co. should feel fast, as they're under constant attack. However, watching Empire, the Dagobah parts feel too fast, somehow. The film is edited to keep flowing, and while that's usually a good thing, here, it just doesn't work for me.
-Plot: Again to the 80%, I feel that really, not much happens. Empire works in worldbuilding, in as much as we learn about the Force, but it also feels redundant. Nothing Luke learns on Dagobah feels that relevant to his fight with Vader. For instance, the tree scene. It's good foreshadowing, but it's never discussed in the film. I get that the film is treating me intelligently, having faith in me to get the point of the scene, but it feels...off, somehow? Like Luke should at least mention what he saw to Yoda, or reflect on it after learning about his daddy issues.
-Love: HanxLeia is...okay, I guess? I mean, it's better than AnakinxPadme (least as far as Clones goes, as a whole, I actually like their relationship), but people seem to really love HanxLeia, and mainly because of this film. Yet for some reason, I just don't feel that much for them. It certainly functions, but for me, that's about it - it functions. It doesn't help that Cloud City adds a feeling of sterility to the scenes they share in it, and C-3PO is easily at his most annoying here.
-Cloud City: Cloud City is the third act, and is mixed. On one hand, Luke vs. Vader is very well done, and IMO, easily the best sequence in the movie from start to finish. However, the escape part of Leia and co...isn't. The action feels very anemic, like they're constantly jogging, and out of place when compared to the more frentic action of Hope. Also, Bobba Fett. This isn't the film's fault, but I have no idea how he became such a popular character. He barely does anything, or say anything, and his role could be easily taken by a Stormtrooper taking Han to Jabba on behalf of the Empire. And while Luke vs. Vader is very good, it feels separate from Luke's time with Yoda. The duel is mostly down to their skill with lightsabers, and that's the one thing we didn't see Luke train in. Jedi's duel isn't only better IMO, but feels more congruent with Yoda's teachings, as the battle there is emotional as well as physical, whereas the Empire duel is mostly physical.
-Effects. Very minor point, but I feel that of the OT, Empire has aged the most visually. The tuntum stop motion for instance, and the Battle of Hoth shows its age in some cases. Not make or break, but again, I feel it's superseeded by its predecessors.
-Setting Gap: There's something very jarring about Empire compared to Hope when it comes to the three year period. Han's a general, and has been with the Rebellion for three years. So why hasn't the Rebellion just paid off Jabba for him if he's valuable enough to them to be a general? And if he is a general, how come he gets to go out and do the dirty work himself? Nitpicks, yeah, but I never got what's up with Han by this point. I mean, didn't the Rebellion pay him at the end of Hope? Can't he pay off Jabba and call it quits? Maybe the EU explains this, but ideally, the film should stand on its own. Jedi has a setting gap too (e.g. Luke getting a green lightsaber), but it's far less jarring a gap.
-Pacing: This applies to about 80% of the film, covering everything from Luke landing on Dagobah to him reaching Bespin. Empire feels at odds with itself here, as it spreads itself over two plotlines. Ideally, Luke's time on Dagobah should be slow, as he trains in the Force, as he meditates and all that. Ideally, Han and co. should feel fast, as they're under constant attack. However, watching Empire, the Dagobah parts feel too fast, somehow. The film is edited to keep flowing, and while that's usually a good thing, here, it just doesn't work for me.
-Plot: Again to the 80%, I feel that really, not much happens. Empire works in worldbuilding, in as much as we learn about the Force, but it also feels redundant. Nothing Luke learns on Dagobah feels that relevant to his fight with Vader. For instance, the tree scene. It's good foreshadowing, but it's never discussed in the film. I get that the film is treating me intelligently, having faith in me to get the point of the scene, but it feels...off, somehow? Like Luke should at least mention what he saw to Yoda, or reflect on it after learning about his daddy issues.
-Love: HanxLeia is...okay, I guess? I mean, it's better than AnakinxPadme (least as far as Clones goes, as a whole, I actually like their relationship), but people seem to really love HanxLeia, and mainly because of this film. Yet for some reason, I just don't feel that much for them. It certainly functions, but for me, that's about it - it functions. It doesn't help that Cloud City adds a feeling of sterility to the scenes they share in it, and C-3PO is easily at his most annoying here.
-Cloud City: Cloud City is the third act, and is mixed. On one hand, Luke vs. Vader is very well done, and IMO, easily the best sequence in the movie from start to finish. However, the escape part of Leia and co...isn't. The action feels very anemic, like they're constantly jogging, and out of place when compared to the more frentic action of Hope. Also, Bobba Fett. This isn't the film's fault, but I have no idea how he became such a popular character. He barely does anything, or say anything, and his role could be easily taken by a Stormtrooper taking Han to Jabba on behalf of the Empire. And while Luke vs. Vader is very good, it feels separate from Luke's time with Yoda. The duel is mostly down to their skill with lightsabers, and that's the one thing we didn't see Luke train in. Jedi's duel isn't only better IMO, but feels more congruent with Yoda's teachings, as the battle there is emotional as well as physical, whereas the Empire duel is mostly physical.
So, yeah. I don't think Empire is a bad film, and it does take my #4 Star Wars film spot. And as you can tell, a lot of these gripes are subjective, and I do admit that Jedi probably has more flaws. But Jedi also has higher highs than Empire for me, and Empire...there's something about the film that just feels off to me. Very unpopular opinion (hence why I chose it), but I'm afraid all I can be is honest.
