Your opinion on "fast travelling" in open-world RPGs

[Stall]

I pretty well have to side with exactly what the OP said. Bad fast travel is like Oblivion or FO3, where it is instant and immersion breaking. It carries no explanation and no repercussion, and sine people always take the path of least resistance, it's inevitably going to be exploited. But the fast travel in Morrowind was okay, since it made sense in terms of the world and lore, and didn't break your immersion since it was an action your character was clearly taking.

The reason fast travel exists in these games is because the developers realize that their game world is too big.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd quit Oblivion forever if I had to make the trek from Anvil to Bruma on foot. Or from Rivet to Raven Rock in Fallout 3. That's just way too much to potentially ask of a player.

The fact remains that if you want to explore the world, you are entirely free to do so. Fast travel just makes it less tedious.

Then Bethesda should have executed the fast travel like they did in Morrowind by taking the silt strider or something. These worlds are big, which is why you need fast travel (exactly as you said), but that system needs to be well executed, or else it is pretty jarring for your immersion like it was in Oblivion.

 

[6_Qubed]

One of the points Yahtzee made in an older video of his (I think it was for Saints Row 2) was that while a good game can be realistic, realism must always take a back seat to fun. Is fast travel realistic? Hell no. However, it clears up tedium in a wide-open map and lets you get back to the fun, therefore it is good. If you don't like it, don't use it, but don't use it and then ***** about how much you hate it, because clearly you don't hate it enough to not use it.

 

[The_Echo]

The reason fast travel exists in these games is because the developers realize that their game world is too big.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd quit Oblivion forever if I had to make the trek from Anvil to Bruma on foot. Or from Rivet to Raven Rock in Fallout 3. That's just way too much to potentially ask of a player.

The fact remains that if you want to explore the world, you are entirely free to do so. Fast travel just makes it less tedious.

Then Bethesda should have executed the fast travel like they did in Morrowind by taking the silt strider or something. These worlds are big, which is why you need fast travel (exactly as you said), but that system needs to be well executed, or else it is pretty jarring for your immersion like it was in Oblivion.

Personally, it didn't break the immersion at all. But then again, it doesn't take a whole lot for me to be immersed in a game. I have to be having fun, that's about it. Perhaps it's because I have a sense of suspended reality when playing games.

I haven't been following the Skyrim news much, so maybe this has already happened, but I think a mountable dragon as a means of travel would work really well. It could be similar to the horses in Oblivion, only not lame. But I'd kind of like fast travel to be an option too, anyway. Different strokes for different folks, appealing to as many as possible, et cetera and so on.

 

[Exosus]

The first time I played Oblivion I didn't enjoy it for many reasons, not the least of which was that it was effectively occurring in a few towns and one square mile of countryside. Being the dedicated ES fan that I am, I didn't want to accept just straight up not liking one, so the second time I absolutely refused to use fast travel. I walked everywhere, no exceptions. It made the experience a thousand times better. Still not even fit to shine Morrowind's shoes, of course, but much much better.

So to sum it up - fast travel is bad. Objectively bad. Never do it.

 

[Ferrious]

It could be a gyro-copter, it could be a magic carpet, it could be those eagles from Lord of the Rings.

As you progress though the game have faster and faster modes of travel but never make it instantaneous, or if it is magic you really need a tracking shot over the landscape - like astral projection - like as you project your mind from place to place you can SEE how far you are travelling.

This. Instantaneous teleport should be cool, and it should be shown to be cool as part of your character's natural progression:

I start out on foot, that's fine. Stuff takes a while to get to, but I'm only maybe exploring this one town and the nearby regions for now, I need to scrape some coin together. I'm still enjoying looking at the local area, and fighting the odd bandit on the road. Then I get enough coin for a horse, that's kinda cool. My reach around the map has extended, I can go to more places and can get to close places faster now that I've done a lot of the interesting stuff around here. I still travel the roads and turn off from time to time to investigate. Man, that thing jutting off the horizon sure looks cool, but it's so far away, maybe once I'm more powerful I can get there.

I've just done something good for the Elves and now I get an eagle? That's sweet, now I can get to places blocked by road and faster than my horse. I'm getting more powerful, and my influence is extending. I can go most anywhere, but there's still things I see from the air that I stop and investigate.

Now I've got a magical maguffin that took me ages to acquire and had to defeat the beast of beastiness to get. Man that fight was cool. I'm so powerful. Now I can shoot across the land almost-instantly with a flashy effect, and people react to my arriving in such a manner. I've explored most of the world already, now I just want to get to where I need to be, before the cataclysm comes. I'm nearly ready to take on the Big Bad, I know it.

---
This can be done in other styles too. There was no excuse for there not being a salvageable vehicle in Fallout 3. It would've been an item of prestige and another notch on your character's progression.

 

[LadyMint]

I don't think fast traveling should be forced on people, but then again neither should long-distance travel. Whenever I get Epona in the Legend of Zelda games I love riding around on her just for the heck of it, but after a while I need to be able to get from Point A to Point B quickly to handle the serious business. And what about those times when you accidentally forget some equipment or item you really need? Nothing like a in-game three day trip in one direction, then back again to make you wish for something swifter.

Now, I don't mind the taxi-type systems (wind riders/gryphons in WoW, minecart railways in Minecraft), because they typically provide a scenic view. I just get really sick of a game when I spend most of my time walking to the adventure.

 

[JoJo]

I think the fast travel is a great feature. And I don't think it breaks the immersion because you simply don't have to use it if you really want to walk from Anvil to Skingaard every time. Claiming to missing out on the adventure is your own fault if you beam everywhere, for me this works.

This and the questhelper are two of the main reasons I like Oblivion much more than Morrowind.

This, keeping fast travel means that those like myself who like to use it (as long as I've already been along that route before) can use it, and those who don't, well they can just not use it, isn't that difficult if they really want to spend ages walking back and forth.

 

[CD-R]

oooh, I have been waiting for a thread like this!

I think fast travel is a bad design choice for epic RPGs. Fast travel discourages exploration and discovery, which are basically the backbone of modern western RPGs. Morrowind had a perfect design for this. Fast travel was restricted to certain major cities, and only then with a small fee and certain caveats. The fast travel was not just an instant warp feature, but rather an actual service within the game world that helped flesh out the mythos and provided atmosphere while also giving players a convenient option. The beauty of it was that it gave you access to a certain proximity and not an extremely exact coordinate on the map.

Compare this to New Vegas and Oblivion, where instant travel anywhere was possible with no in-game explanation. Sorry, but I don't buy that. It robs immersion from the player and also discourages some of the very things that make RPGs so appealing.

People may complain that a lack of fast travel makes a game tedious, but I think if you actually feel that way, it isn't because of a lack of fast travel but as a result of poor game design. I think oblivion and new vegas necessitated fast travel because of their overabundance of back-and-forth fetch quests and backtracking. I think if a game is developed correctly, a player can be guided through the game world without fast travel, minus the excessive backtracking.

It's not fast travel that discourages exploration. It's lack of interesting things to find that does. Oblivion's problem was that all of it's dungeons had randomly generated respawning loot and enemies. So while there were tons of dungeons there was no reason to go into any of them since you could just raid the same dungeon over and over again. This was the exact same system Elder Scrolls 2 Daggerfall had.

They managed to fix this in Fallout 3 by getting rid of the respawning loot and enemies and giving virtually every location a story behind it. Whether it was the Dunwich Building with it's references to Call of Cthulhu, or the Vault with all the Gary clones, or the Republic of Dave, every place had something to see or something to find. Give people an actual reason to explore and they will.

I'm confused as to why Bethesda went back to the old Daggerfall dungeon and fast travel system for Oblivion. Does anyone know? Was there like a huge backlash among really old school Elder Scroll's fans?

 

[scorptatious]

I don't mind fast traveling myself. When I first played Oblivion, I was unaware of the option, so I just went everywhere by foot and horse. It was time consuming, but damn was it fun. Eventually though, I decided to use the fast travel whenever I get tired of going down a familiar route.

 

[Reincarnatedwolfgod]

fast travel( http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Ballad_of_Gales )made wind waker better but the sailing long distances was monotonous after a while; hell sailing can monotonous even if its still a short distance after playing for long time. but that is not an rpg.

as for rpg's the open world can dull eventually(depending on the game) not mention isn't fast traveling optional to began with so who cares. if you don't like it don't use it.

 

[Woodsey]

So... don't?

If I want to get somewhere for a quest I fast travel, if I want to explore I explore.

 

[Ranorak]

If only there was a way to make both parties happy.

You know, like put Fast Travel in the game, for those who like it, but without the giant war axe above people's heads when they refuse to use it.

What do you mean no giant axe?
So, no one forced you to use it?
Then stop complaining about a optional feature in a game that lets you skip some time.

 

[omega3711]

If you have fast travel then what's the point of the overworld? It might as well just be a menu at that point.

 

[WanderingFool]

I would prefer a system of fast-travel like the flying mounts in Wow. If it is instant travel, its portals that only mages can make. Though I do like Oblivions fast-travel system (largely from the fact that I dont get "immersed" by walking every-fucking-where, I still like the idea of conviant travel) ,it did really make the traveling to easy.

 

[Deimir]

Fallout 3-style fast travel doesn't break immersion for me. Time still passes based on how far you are going, it's not like your character blinks three times and is suddenly somewhere else. I haven't seen many people mentioning Fallout New Vegas in this thread, but I'd have to say I would give up on that game if it weren't for fast travel. There's so many quests that say, "we need components X, Y, and Z, but we're only going to tell you where one of them is at a time, and you have to bring back each item in person." Without Fast Travel in Vegas, you'd end up humping across the entire length of the map 20 times to complete a handful of quests. Where does that get fun?

 

[Avatar Roku]

maybe make it so that you can only fast travel to major locations. so then you will still get the travelling aspect from walking to a cave or ruin or something just outside of town and you will also have the ease of fast travelling to a nearby location. they should still employ some sort of transit system like what was in red dead redemption. you could sit back and watch everything going on or you could skip to your destination.

I think that's the way to go, with a couple exceptions. For example, I'm thinking of Oblivion, where there were only 8 cities (or something like that), with a lot of wilderness that was not near or between them. For example, the entire north western part of the map was completely empty (as far as cities go, the only northern city was Bruma and that was central/east), which would make trudging up there from a city every time a complete chore. Hell, even WITH fast travel, getting there was a chore. If the map were more balanced, with the cities more evenly spaced out, that system would work beautifully.

I thought the Fallout 3 system was pretty solid, not letting you fast travel to places you haven't found yet. I definitely set off wandering in FO3 much more than Oblivion.

Morrowind's system was fantastic and felt very realistic (in an in game sense) and kept up the immersion. Oblivion's was just a little easy.

I know what you mean. I played FO3 before Oblivion, and was SHOCKED when I saw you could fast travel to every city right out of the gate. I almost felt like I'd been robbed, because I like to feel like I earned my fast travel. That and the overall more interesting map was what made FO3's exploration so much better.

I loved, loved, LOVED the Wind Waker travel style. I loved the sailing. It was smooth and relaxing, with the waves peppered by the occasional shark, or the little gem collecting mini games that did not slow you down or take you off course.

But there was also fast travel there. You could fast travel to about 7 of the 49 map squares, meaning you could cut out some of the ridiculous cross map sailing, but still had to go a fair distance when you travelled.

You also only unlocked the ability to fast travel part of the way into the game, so you were forced to do a fair bit of sailing before hand.

I want to play Wind Waker again...

Me too, man. I loved Wind Waker. And I loved the sailing, it really DID give the sense that you were traveling in a huge world. At the end, when Ganondorf was talking about how the goddesses doomed everyone, you really felt what he meant because you'd had to explore the absolutely vast ocean. I also read a good analysis somewhere about how the ocean is a metaphor for the unknown, and the islands are all metaphors for comfort, which becomes stifling. You know what, here [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/author/DanMerrill/2176/].

Also, it goes back to what I said above. You had to fucking WORK for your fast travel, which made it all the sweeter, perhaps even moreso than in Fallout.

 

[Treblaine]

It could be a gyro-copter, it could be a magic carpet, it could be those eagles from Lord of the Rings.

As you progress though the game have faster and faster modes of travel but never make it instantaneous, or if it is magic you really need a tracking shot over the landscape - like astral projection - like as you project your mind from place to place you can SEE how far you are travelling.

This. Instantaneous teleport should be cool, and it should be shown to be cool as part of your character's natural progression:

I start out on foot, that's fine. Stuff takes a while to get to, but I'm only maybe exploring this one town and the nearby regions for now, I need to scrape some coin together. I'm still enjoying looking at the local area, and fighting the odd bandit on the road. Then I get enough coin for a horse, that's kinda cool. My reach around the map has extended, I can go to more places and can get to close places faster now that I've done a lot of the interesting stuff around here. I still travel the roads and turn off from time to time to investigate. Man, that thing jutting off the horizon sure looks cool, but it's so far away, maybe once I'm more powerful I can get there.

I've just done something good for the Elves and now I get an eagle? That's sweet, now I can get to places blocked by road and faster than my horse. I'm getting more powerful, and my influence is extending. I can go most anywhere, but there's still things I see from the air that I stop and investigate.

Now I've got a magical maguffin that took me ages to acquire and had to defeat the beast of beastiness to get. Man that fight was cool. I'm so powerful. Now I can shoot across the land almost-instantly with a flashy effect, and people react to my arriving in such a manner. I've explored most of the world already, now I just want to get to where I need to be, before the cataclysm comes. I'm nearly ready to take on the Big Bad, I know it.

---
This can be done in other styles too. There was no excuse for there not being a salvageable vehicle in Fallout 3. It would've been an item of prestige and another notch on your character's progression.

This is why I never was that amazed by Fallout 3+ as it just never grew.

An RPG you should get a real sense of progression, that you aren't just continuously slogging through. Seriously, why should I continue playing? It's not like a linear game when I discover more, the world is open from the start, I could jsut dick around for a few hours then leave.

Zelda... it seems so simple, but it nails the essentials. You can go through so much of the game before you get a horse and when you do... wow.

WoW has shown the magnetic power of "leveling" yet it is derided bbecause all the "levels" are just simple stats, it's a blatant skinner box that may please the pigeon part of our brains but not the part of our

I like the games that people are more tempted to call "with RPG elements" than true RPGs like Deus Ex, Bioshock, Zelda and so on as all the weapons don't have +1 stats and all that. As is an RPG must have listed number stats for everything to be a real RPG.

But the Zelda/Bioshock you level-up with more tangible things: items, weapons, vehicles, abilities. Finding - no - EARNING the hookshot is much more satisfying than +3 sword of darkdragon.

You start so weak and green - LoZ you start literally as a child - but by the end you are a MAN! Not just a number.

 

[Treblaine]

If you have fast travel then what's the point of the overworld? It might as well just be a menu at that point.

A point of disappointment with Bioshock: you literally navigate via a menu to control where your mini-sub/bathysphere goes and you don't even get the chance to watch the transition from place to place.

It was REALLY cool entering rapture for the first time in the bathysphere but at no point in the rest of the game do you ever get to see the transition again.

Ah well. development costs. Rendering a whole outside area would have been hard an only been seen for a few seconds.

 

[Treblaine]

fast travel( http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Ballad_of_Gales )made wind waker better but the sailing long distances was monotonous after a while; hell sailing can monotonous even if its still a short distance after playing for long time. but that is not an rpg.

I don't get how Wind Waker gets dinged so much for long sailing when other games do the same only with long WALKING.

At least sailing is a novel experience that people don't get to do every day.

Maybe they failed to really capture the impression that you were being propelled by the wind., the sense of power of flying by the wind in your sail.