Your video game hot take(s) thread

Dalisclock

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Depends on the person and type of game game in question. I admit that I'll always take a fun game over something that's not supposed to be fun. That's just naturally how I am and nothing will change that. Nor am I ashamed of it.

I can see what he means though. There are games I'd be wary of calling fun but definitely engaging. Games that are either story and/or atmosphere heavy where gameplay is either okay or outright bad. Or games like TLOU I wouldn't consider particularly fun but it is engaging from a character/setting perspective(YMMV of course).

Arguably depending what someone wants out of a game, really. Someone playing Dark Souls expecting something like a Platinum game combat experience is gonna be disappointed and someone playing Metal Gear Rising expecting the worldbuilding and atmosphere of a souls game equally so. Platinum games are generally on the fun side while Souls are more engaging arguably(nobody in a FROM game ever seems to be having fun, not even the protagonist, and that's part of the draw for some people).

I'm not really articulating this as well as I'd like so I apologize if this isn't coming off well. There's room for both and it depends on what you want and to what degree.

Something that came to mind after I initially posted this is Kentucky Route Zero. It's a game that leans heavily on atmosphere and storytelling to the point "gameplay" is exploring and talking with little in the way of puzzles or anything else. I'd honestly call it closer to interactive fiction or even stagecraft then a game because it's clearly fascinated with live action theater and art house films. It's very engaging for me, Noah Gervais, Marty Silva(Sliva?) and probably like 2 other people on Earth but it's not...."fun" by any traditional use of the term. I'm okay with that though. I'm pretty sure the people who made KRZ know that and made the wierd interactive David Lynchequse experience they wanted that appeals to weirdos like me so I guess it all worked out in the end.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Definitely just seems like a semantic argument to me. Of course games should be fun. It's just that not everyone has the exact same idea as fun.

You "play" games.. because "playing" is "fun." Yes, Dark Souls is fun if you like the challenge and whatever.
Personally I don't see the appeal of "games" that don't emphasize gameplay at all but, whatever.
 
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Depends on the person and type of game in question. I admit that I'll always take a fun game over something that's not supposed to be fun. That's just naturally how I am and nothing will change that. Nor am I ashamed of it.

Games are recreational activities. They're "fun" not necessarily because they bring joy, but because they alleviate boredom. If it's not fun, I'm not buying your game.

I will say however that once you played enough games you start forgetting them. The games that truly matter are the ones that were the most memorable, not the ones that were the most fun or had the best gameplay.
 

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Games are recreational activities. They're "fun" not necessarily because they bring joy, but because they alleviate boredom.
Once again, depends on the person. I don't deny this, but are many games where I want my fun and engagement. I've played games to alleviate boredom, but I don't over rely on it.

The games that truly matter are the ones that were the most memorable, not the ones that were the most fun or had the best gameplay.
Yes and no. Not every example is 1-to-1. Sometimes the most fun is the most memorable. Sometimes something is most memorable, because how bad or out left field happening in the game. Be it story, character, or a sudden gameplay change unexpected, and no one asked for.

If it's not fun, I'm not buying your game.
Indeed.
 

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Gaming Brit didn't like the game overall. Whatever, but I will offer counterpoints.

  1. The game is good and doesn't feel like a "made-for-TV sequel" as he puts it.
  2. I will agree and say that some of the enemies are annoying and do not like.
  3. The game didn't exactly nerf Bayonetta's move sets or power scale. If anything, Bayo2 nerfed her in terms of power. Yes, it was done for the sake of the summons, but you can still use summons as combo enders, making them as powerful as the standards Wicked Weaves from the old games. You can get her move sets from 1 and 2, if you have the save files from said games. His complaints are minor nick pits. Odds are most people aren't gonna play the third game in the franchise without playing the prior two.
  4. This game is not "next-gen" looking. Fuck off, dude. I agree that the visuals aren't as good as the previous games, but they're not bad. Also, the first game has the washed-out bloom look of generation 7. Not as bad as many others and was done more artistically, but Bayonetta being more colorful showed bad that design trend was.
  5. GB is being a contrarian again that can't make up his mind. He has this push back about how Bayonetta never needed a sequel. Yet back in 2014, he was no different whooping and hollering for the game to come out like everyone else. I know opinions change and all, but the first game has a self-contained story and is open-ended. It could have gone either way, but the rest is history. Be grateful you prick. What he said you can apply most franchises in general: Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Resident Evil, God of War, etc. Get your head out of your ass.
  6. Viola YMMV, but I understand where is coming from. I like her personally, but it does get annoying fighting giant enemies when playing as her. It only gets more difficult.
  7. As for comparisons to V from DMC5, I enjoy the summon mechanics from both him and Bayonetta. I admit that I enjoy Bayo's a bit more, even though she is not free to move around when she fully summons her demons. She can still use them for high damaging pause combos or finishers when timed right. They can even be used to parry attacks. V is a fun character, but his major flaw is that, if he loses two of his familiars and has no DT, the man can't fight back properly until he has Shadow or Griffin, or has at least 3 bars of DT. Bayonetta can defend herself fine no different from Dante or Nero. GB, you're letting your blind fan boy goggles showing.
  8. The game is "too easy". While the game is easier, it's still a challenge if you don't play carefully. Try Hard or Infinite Climax, then complain to me about difficulty. Or right, you didn't because you said that you were not going to go back to it often. Good for you, more fun for me.
  9. Story is once again YMMV. I liked it overall, but I can see where people would have problems. Not enough to ruin the whole experience for me.
  10. Bayo did try to save Phantom Bayo, but the parasites already infected Phantom, and two, the latter would not have appreciated much any way. Because Bayo Prime had to kill Phantom's mom, who was mind controlled over by said Alpha-Verse parasites. Another thing GB, Bayo didn't cause those soldiers to dance, that was the parasite themselves. The dancing Thriller shout was weird, but I still got a quick laugh out of it.
Bayonetta 3 is still a good, kick-ass action game. 2 is my personal favorite and best, and there are way worst sequels to action games than Bayo3.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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The piling on of hate on Callisto Protocol is a prime example of gamer culture expressing self-hatred.

The hype for this game was nuts. I get that people like Dead Space, fine. Former developers of a beloved brand making a "spiritual successor" doesn't mean anything.
Game come out and the only criticism that is valid is stuttering issues on PC.

But the complaints about it not having puzzles or the wrong combat system- this just seems like people telling themselves a story about what kind of game they thought this was going to be based on collective circle-jerking.
I also love that there are complaints that both the combat is bad AND it's too short. You know the old joke: the food at this restaurant is bad, and such small portions!

This is not my kind of game, I have no interest in playing it so I'm not defending the game per se or saying it's good, I don't know or care, I just am seeing the piling on and it's so preposterous.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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That reminds me that I sadly realized I suck at picking up on what accents are. I just realized recently Claudia Black is Australian and I somehow didn't realize that before. I'm not even sure what I thought her accent was.

It's worse because I listen to a couple youtubers from Australia(VaatiVidya, Perun) so you'd think I'd be better at picking up on it by now.
I think this might just be because the USA has a LOT of different accents and dialects in it so someone not speaking the same as you is commonplace but unlike a tiny island like Britain, it's also not always easy to pinpoint what region the accent comes from.
 

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The piling on of hate on Callisto Protocol is a prime example of gamer culture expressing self-hatred.

The hype for this game was nuts. I get that people like Dead Space, fine. Former developers of a beloved brand making a "spiritual successor" doesn't mean anything.
Well, when you are constantly touting yourself and your marketing claiming that you're the next generation Dead Space, people are gonna get hyped and have high expectations. Yes, people hype themselves up too much, but this is still a product that is $60-$70 missing the most basic quality of life features. I'll explain in the next response.
But the complaints about it not having puzzles or the wrong combat system- this just seems like people telling themselves a story about what kind of game they thought this was going to be based on collective circle-jerking.
I also love that there are complaints that both the combat is bad AND it's too short. You know the old joke: the food at this restaurant is bad, and such small portions!
The game being "short" (it's a 10-12 hour game) is the least of its problems, and the lack of puzzles is not a big deal to me, even though it's a staple of most horror games. The big issue is that there is not much to the combat, or over-focuses on melee. Add in melee was not good for some people. That even includes when you get to the max upgrades for melee. The other problem I am seeing is that add to this is enemies take way too many hits, even on Normal turning them into straight bullet sponges, the melee does not change much, and you do the same bob and weaves over and over (with dodging that is finnicky at times and doesn't explain itself), turning into an impromptu brawler, doing this in crowds is a death sentence as Jacob is really not equipped to handle multiple enemies in melee. Those monsters lack mook chivalry and will not wait their turn. You can't explore much unlike in games like Dead Space, Evil Within, or even Shadows of the Damned. You can't even backtrack like said other games to go back for resources you missed or couldn't carry, because the inventory is low at that point, and the game will lock the room behind you without warning.

Then add the fact there is no NG+ until the next two months, meaning it kills the replay value instantly. Can you explain to me why in 2022 most Western AAA developers keep not having in this unlocked feature that has become the standard since the PS1 and PS2 days? That means you to Santa Monica! There is no point in replaying the game on the same or harder difficulty, if a player found it frustrating or unenjoyable. This game $60-$70+ dollars right out of gate. Not everyone has that kind money or time to waste on a game that doesn't respect the player's time. You can't skip cut-scenes, and their badly placed checkpoints. Thankfully, there is manual saving and a restart checkpoint option, but that still doesn't excuse why we still have modern games with unskippable cut-scenes (or don't become unskippable until a big ass patch update). This once again, kills replay value, and shows a game either rushed or not ready for a release. I've been tired of this in modern gaming, and I have no patience for this now.

I know you said you're not defending this game, but I can't blame people for being disappointed or upset. Okay guys, you have fancy graphics and facial animations, let me play the goddamn game or skip shit I've already seen! I am not wowed anymore! If you can spend the $70+ dollars on the game missing what should be the actual standard and can enjoy it, that's fine, but don't expect everyone to have the same opinion or experience. As far as I am concerned, this game is not worth the money at this moment. Even people who like Callisto Protocol don't blame others for thinking and considering it's not worth the investment.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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The melee-focused combat is actually what had me consider playing the game (as it's not a genre I normally enjoy). But I take your points about the mechanics of the combat and it does seem miserable. This is describing core mechanics and "primary gameplay loop" and is way more important than stuff like NG+ and unskippable cut scenes 'cause it can't be patched or fixed, it's core gameplay. And that is why I'm not going to play it any time soon.

NG+ seems exactly like the type of feature that can wait for a free update. The game just came out and already we're complaining about its replayability. Sorry but two months to me seems like a reasonable amount of time to wait for NG+.

And no I don't blame people for being disappointed or upset and I agree that 60-70 seems too much for this game, for sure. I guess my whole point is- criticism is one thing, and piling on for redundancy, circle-jerking, or reddit karma is another. Like hey guys, I'm also in the kool kids klub, we've found our new Cyberpunk, giggity giggity. It's this whole vibe, it's dumb.

Also apparently the lead guy on Callisto is kind of a shit-poster and a dufus apparently so yeah maybe they kind of set themselves up for this *shrug*
 

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NG+ seems exactly like the type of feature that can wait for a free update. The game just came out and already we're complaining about its replayability. Sorry but two months to me seems like a reasonable amount of time to wait for NG+.
No it doesn't. Gamers have to wait two months for New Game Plus. Did gamers have to wait two months for a new game plus on Resident Evil or Devil May Cry? No. Did gamers have to wait two or three months for New Game Plus in the older God of War games? No. It's an issue and there should be no reason why New Game Plus is removed at the beginning or is put in later as a patch. Yeah, I'm glad it's free and all, but that still doesn't make the issues any more problematic. You still have to wait for a feature that's usually the automatic standard to be in a game to begin with. Instead, it's another case of wait until it's fixed mentality. By that point, most peoy are going to be interested in something else or going to wait till the sale gets even lower. There's a reason why I'm tired of broken games released at launch or they put in features that should have been in there to begin with. I won't settle for any less. I know you have your own standards, but so do i. And the problem is that the bars been too lower that people like to think that's acceptable, but it's not.


And no I don't blame people for being disappointed or upset and I agree that 60-70 seems too much for this game, for sure. I guess my whole point is- criticism is one thing, and piling on for redundancy, circle-jerking, or reddit karma is another. Like hey guys, I'm also in the kool kids klub, we've found our new Cyberpunk, giggity giggity. It's this whole vibe, it's dumb.
He will like that are always going to exist no matter what. Ignore them and don't pay them any mind. I sure as hell don't. I'll still call them out when necessary, but people like that are always going to talk their asses off to sound smarter important. The best you can do is either ignore them, or call them out when they do and say something really stupid and ignorant.

Also apparently the lead guy on Callisto is kind of a shit-poster and a dufus apparently so yeah maybe they kind of set themselves up for this *shrug*
It's the same thing I said before, just because you are the creator of something/lead director of some huge previous project, doesn't mean you'll have all the answers or the right ways to do game design. Those other games still took a team effort and he was only co-creator and executive producer for the first Dead Space. Nor doesn't mean you can rest on your laurels or expect to use the same game design that's outdated from years ago or does not work anymore.
 
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Gergar12

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I have never seen anyone do a space game well with regard to a galaxy-spanning civilization. There are literally 100 billion suns in the galaxy in a milky way sized galaxy so you would expect numbers way past trillions of people. Yet Star Wars has only 25 thousand star destroyers in their galaxy at its peak which is a galaxy like ours, Star Trek has the dumb 'you cannot screw with other low-tech civilizations which is a dumb concept' as I would just give them their home world, but colonize planets in their solar system, Stellaris is okay but has weird alien religions which exist contrary to the curiously needed to go into space, Elite Dangerous is okay, but is unrealistic since national militaries won't let you go to space in a freaking destroyer, No man's sky lacks enough people. Mass Effect only colonized 1% of the milky way due to the reaper's gaslighting so they never figure out FTL without gates that act like teleporting portals.
 
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I have never seen anyone do a space game well with regard to a galaxy-spanning civilization. There are literally 100 billion suns in the galaxy in a milky way sized galaxy so you would expect numbers way past trillions of people. Yet Star Wars has only 25 thousand star destroyers in their galaxy at its peak which is a galaxy like ours, Star Trek has the dumb 'you cannot screw with other low-tech civilizations which is a dumb concept' as I would just give them their home world, but colonize planets in their solar system, Stellaris is okay but has weird alien religions which exist contrary to the curiously needed to go into space, Elite Dangerous is okay, but is unrealistic since national militaries won't let you go to space in a freaking destroyer, No man's sky lacks enough people. Mass Effect only colonized 1% of the milky way due to the reaper's gaslighting so they never figure out FTL without gates that act like teleporting portals.
I think the issue is basically what you already pointed out. Space is not only big, it's fucking huge, and people really have a hard time wrapping thier heads around it(the distance from the earth to the moon could fit almost all the planets if put right next to each other inside of it or something like that). Scifi takes shortcuts for the sake of storytelling but that basically feels back into this particular issue.

Simulating space in a way that feels both accurate and interesting is probably way too much for anyone to really handle.
 
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Dalisclock

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There's more than one Aussie accent... not that anyone but another Australian can really tell (and thusly hang shit on it). The basic differences are based on how nasal speech is ('broadness'), the rounding of vowels (particularly 'A's) and if you can be arsed dealing with hard consonents or not (and HOOOOBOY a lot of that has its origins in social class)... and that's without getting into regional variations.
That makes me feel a little better. Thank you.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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The melee-focused combat is actually what had me consider playing the game (as it's not a genre I normally enjoy). But I take your points about the mechanics of the combat and it does seem miserable. This is describing core mechanics and "primary gameplay loop" and is way more important than stuff like NG+ and unskippable cut scenes 'cause it can't be patched or fixed, it's core gameplay. And that is why I'm not going to play it any time soon.

NG+ seems exactly like the type of feature that can wait for a free update. The game just came out and already we're complaining about its replayability. Sorry but two months to me seems like a reasonable amount of time to wait for NG+.

And no I don't blame people for being disappointed or upset and I agree that 60-70 seems too much for this game, for sure. I guess my whole point is- criticism is one thing, and piling on for redundancy, circle-jerking, or reddit karma is another. Like hey guys, I'm also in the kool kids klub, we've found our new Cyberpunk, giggity giggity. It's this whole vibe, it's dumb.

Also apparently the lead guy on Callisto is kind of a shit-poster and a dufus apparently so yeah maybe they kind of set themselves up for this *shrug*
It’s the opposite end of the spectrum as when something is overhyped or overrated to some people. They’ll seem to lay into any flaws much heavier than if the early access reviewers or YouTubers more fully disclosed any issues from the get go (which isn’t always possible anyways because deadlines and only so much can be covered). It’s like, people feel so deeply betrayed by something or take it as a personal affront that they kinda go off the deep end as a response.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I think the issue is basically what you already pointed out. Space is not only big, it's fucking huge, and people really have a hard time wrapping thier heads around it(the distance from the earth to the moon could fit almost all the planets if put right next to each other inside of it or something like that). Scifi takes shortcuts for the sake of storytelling but that basically feels back into this particular issue.

Simulating space in a way that feels both accurate and interesting is probably way too much for anyone to really handle.

Not to mention it takes the “how big do games need to be?” to an unreasonably massive extreme. Something like Space Engine is pretty massive in scope as far as accuracy of celestial bodies but there’s no “game” to it either. Contrast that with something like Star Citizen which will never fucking be finished, and is still nowhere near a scale that would justify “space”. It’s like, if people don’t even have the time or resources to create a thing, then who the hell will have time to play all of it anyways.
 
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Not to mention it takes the “how big do games need to be?” to an unreasonably massive extreme. Something like Space Engine is pretty massive in scope as far as accuracy of celestial bodies but there’s no “game” to it either. Contrast that with something like Star Citizen which will never fucking be finished, and is still nowhere near a scale that would justify “space”. It’s like, if people don’t even have the time or resources to create a thing, then who the hell will have time to play all of it anyways.
I'd argue Kerbal Space Program gives a pretty good sense of scale for something like realistic space travel and even then the solar system in KSP is a scaled down version of our own for the sake of gameplay.
 

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I'd argue Kerbal Space Program gives a pretty good sense of scale for something like realistic space travel and even then the solar system in KSP is a scaled down version of our own for the sake of gameplay.
And, because gamers are gamers, there are mods for KSP that replace the in-game solar system with our real one, with realistic planet sizes, distances and orbits, and also beef up the game mechanics to as close to real life as possible.
 

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And, because gamers are gamers, there are mods for KSP that replace the in-game solar system with our real one, with realistic planet sizes, distances and orbits, and also beef up the game mechanics to as close to real life as possible.
... and remove the spyware.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Yesterday's Slightly Something Else was about poorly paced games, inspired by the lackluster-to-negative response that most of the Escapist crew have to Ragnarok.
So my hot take is that not only is Ragnarok paced just fine, but this is purely a symptom of games critics being "forced" to play everything that comes out very quickly.

The complaints came down to "why am I being forced to do this mission." Well if one actually likes the game, one does the mission because that's the game, lol.
Like they were talking about how in one section you "have" to ride around on a yak with an NPC as a secondary character, or in another section you have chase false leads. And yes of course it's game-y, it's largely excuses to go to the next place and do combat or whatever. But... this is how games work.

Meanwhile Yakuze and Persona games are praised to the high heavens and those dialogue scenes go on FOREVER and that's ok I guess, I dunno.

Elden Ring is GOTY and it's the same damn caves and bosses and all you do is ride around and get lost and fight the same crap over and over and everyone knows the last third is garbage but, sure, GOTY. Only when Sony releases cinematic single player games (that aren't actually broken!) do we complain about basic video game characteristics like "the game keeps giving me quests without also giving me a meaningful existential value for my life wah wah wah."