Your video game hot take(s) thread

[Catfood220]

have no doubt Joel killed a lot of people in the 20 years between the intro and when the game picks up in Boston, considering how jaded he is and how comfortable he is with killing by that point

You've accidentally reminded me of another problem I have with this game and that is just how fragile Joel is in the beginning of the game. Despite being told how much of a bad ass he is, how he used to be a raider who preyed on the innocent and all the terrible deeds he's done. And even now that he is a scavenger who goes out into the wilderness and still has to get his hands dirty when need be.

So how the fuck has he not developed the survival skills you learn throughout the game? How has he not got an arsenal of weapons stashed somewhere in case of emergence? How come in the 20 years that pass between the apocalypse and when we see him next, has he not found a knife he liked and kept it? No, I choose to believe that none of his shady past happened and he just laid in bed for 20 years.

The most fun I had with this game was in New Game + when everything is powered up and Joel actually plays like the bad ass he is made out to be.

 

[Casual Shinji]

You've accidentally reminded me of another problem I have with this game and that is just how fragile Joel is in the beginning of the game. Despite being told how much of a bad ass he is, how he used to be a raider who preyed on the innocent and all the terrible deeds he's done. And even now that he is a scavenger who goes out into the wilderness and still has to get his hands dirty when need be.

So how the fuck has he not developed the survival skills you learn throughout the game? How has he not got an arsenal of weapons stashed somewhere in case of emergence? How come in the 20 years that pass between the apocalypse and when we see him next, has he not found a knife he liked and kept it? No, I choose to believe that none of his shady past happened and he just laid in bed for 20 years.

The most fun I had with this game was in New Game + when everything is powered up and Joel actually plays like the bad ass he is made out to be.

I don't think it's ever stated he's supposed to be Rambo, just that he's a tough guy. And it's implied that for the last few years he's pretty much been in Boston as Tess' muscle, with Bill supplying them with things that they can barter with. From Joel's comments you can tell he tends to not really want to go outside the wall. And I'd assume having food is a lot more important than having an arsenal. But yeah, the knife thing is just a gameplay contrivance.

 

[Dalisclock]

You've accidentally reminded me of another problem I have with this game and that is just how fragile Joel is in the beginning of the game. Despite being told how much of a bad ass he is, how he used to be a raider who preyed on the innocent and all the terrible deeds he's done. And even now that he is a scavenger who goes out into the wilderness and still has to get his hands dirty when need be.

So how the fuck has he not developed the survival skills you learn throughout the game? How has he not got an arsenal of weapons stashed somewhere in case of emergence? How come in the 20 years that pass between the apocalypse and when we see him next, has he not found a knife he liked and kept it? No, I choose to believe that none of his shady past happened and he just laid in bed for 20 years.

The most fun I had with this game was in New Game + when everything is powered up and Joel actually plays like the bad ass he is made out to be.

I always wondered how Ellie's little switchblade lasts forever but Joel can't find a lead pipe or a combat knife that doesn't break after 5 or 6 uses. Not even in the 20 years he's been dealing with all of this. That's a minor quibble though.

 

[Dalisclock]

But taking this back to Joel, if he had actually told Ellie the truth (and not killed that doctor and Marlene) I'd be more inclined to be on his side. Ultimately it's thematically less about the impact this'll have on the world, and more about the impact this has on their relationship, and on Ellie herself. It's that lie that makes his actions so sinister. This sense that he's claiming her for himself through this lie. This all then gets flushed down the toilet though by the sequel, so eh, who really cares anymore.

I actually agree with you there. Joel is an asshole and he did what he did for entirely selfish reasons, which I think works far better then anything around what the fireflies are(not) doing.

In TLoU 2, Abby could have been the daughter of any of the hundreds of people Joel killed over the years(I have no doubt Joel killed a lot of people in the 20 years between the intro and when the game picks up in Boston, considering how jaded he is and how comfortable he is with killing by that point) and it would have worked much the same way. "Joel, My dad was one of those random dudes you killed back in Pittsburgh. Remember him? Of course you don't" *SWING*

On a separate note, I know I've got the Hottest Take of all here....

Lara Croft (Pre-2013 reboot) is a terrible person. I've been playing the Crystal Dynamics games(Legend, Anniversary and Underworld) and Lara comes across as a rich asshole(though affable at times) who destroys priceless ancient archeological sites and steals the shineys BECAUSE SHE'S BORED. The Shineys don't even seem to mean anything to her, considering she's pretty rich(it's mentioned her parents left her like 3 mansions or some such) and what does she do with the archeological treasures she finds? She puts them in her house and...lets them sit there, where only she and her friends can look at them.

No mention of donating them to Museums, no talk of turning over the sites to UNESCO or the appropriate preservation societies or anything like that. Lara just finds some amazing ancient sites(constantly) with technology and complexity that nobody has ever seen before and would revolutionize the field 10 times over(even without the magical McGuffin BS) and doesn't seem to care at all, really. She just opens the doors, occasionally smashes a couple walls with a damn forklift and loots the priceless shiny bit and scampers off, often with the justification that "If I don't, some other rich person will get it before me" Because god forbid anyone have nicer stuff then Lara. Sure, late in the game there's some Nefarious plan involved but Lara has no way of knowing that at the time, so it feels like a justification after the fact that she stumbles into. Also, something something mommy issues.

The only hint she is an archeologist is the flashback to the Peruvian Dig site in Legend, where it's implied she's doing some actual archology and not just plundering shit for her own amusement and benefit. And while you can level these same accusations at Indy and Nathan Drake, Indy at least shows some interest in the historical implications of the ruins he finds and Drake is a self professed treasure hunter, so he's at least honest he's only in it for the money most of the time.

 

[MrCalavera]

On a separate note, I know I've got the Hottest Take of all here....

Lara Croft (Pre-2013 reboot) is a terrible person. [SNIP]

The only hint she is an archeologist is the flashback to the Peruvian Dig site in Legend, where it's implied she's doing some actual archology and not just plundering shit for her own amusement and benefit. And while you can level these same accusations at Indy and Nathan Drake, Indy at least shows some interest in the historical implications of the ruins he finds and Drake is a self professed treasure hunter, so he's at least honest he's only in it for the money most of the time.

TBF the series is called "TOMB RAIDER", not "RESPECTFUL ARCHEOLOGIST".

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

The ending to Wolfenstein 2 was such an anti-climatic wet fart that felt 100% like the game quit halfway through the last level, I reckon you could swap it with the Mass Effect 3 ending and it would be an improvement.

 

[Dalisclock]

TBF the series is called "TOMB RAIDER", not "RESPECTFUL ARCHEOLOGIST".

Which is why I called it "The Hottest of the Hot Takes", implying some sarcastic level of "Yeah, I know this ain't exactly a new interpretation". I probably should have preferenced it a little better, I've just been chewing on the feeling that Lara is the "good guy" because the game tells you she is and really for no other reason. Admittedly the fact Lara croft wears the title of "Archaeologist" but doesn't actually show any interest in her presumed profession and her callous disregard for both ancient architecture and history annoys me as someone who is interested in ancient history and ruins. The bit in Legend where she plows a forklift through several 1000+ year old walls because they were in her way and nobody so much as comments on this chapped me just a wee bit and the joke "Lara Croft is the worst thing to happen to ancient ruins since ISIS" came to mind.

Apparently Shadow of the Tomb raider addressed this idea more directly with Lara causing a disaster through her reckless adventuring, but I haven't played it.

 

[happyninja42]

I actually agree with you there. Joel is an asshole and he did what he did for entirely selfish reasons, which I think works far better then anything around what the fireflies are(not) doing.

In TLoU 2, Abby could have been the daughter of any of the hundreds of people Joel killed over the years(I have no doubt Joel killed a lot of people in the 20 years between the intro and when the game picks up in Boston, considering how jaded he is and how comfortable he is with killing by that point) and it would have worked much the same way. "Joel, My dad was one of those random dudes you killed back in Pittsburgh. Remember him? Of course you don't" *SWING*

On a separate note, I know I've got the Hottest Take of all here....

Lara Croft (Pre-2013 reboot) is a terrible person. I've been playing the Crystal Dynamics games(Legend, Anniversary and Underworld) and Lara comes across as a rich asshole(though affable at times) who destroys priceless ancient archeological sites and steals the shineys BECAUSE SHE'S BORED. The Shineys don't even seem to mean anything to her, considering she's pretty rich(it's mentioned her parents left her like 3 mansions or some such) and what does she do with the archeological treasures she finds? She puts them in her house and...lets them sit there, where only she and her friends can look at them.

No mention of donating them to Museums, no talk of turning over the sites to UNESCO or the appropriate preservation societies or anything like that. Lara just finds some amazing ancient sites(constantly) with technology and complexity that nobody has ever seen before and would revolutionize the field 10 times over(even without the magical McGuffin BS) and doesn't seem to care at all, really. She just opens the doors, occasionally smashes a couple walls with a damn forklift and loots the priceless shiny bit and scampers off, often with the justification that "If I don't, some other rich person will get it before me" Because god forbid anyone have nicer stuff then Lara. Sure, late in the game there's some Nefarious plan involved but Lara has no way of knowing that at the time, so it feels like a justification after the fact that she stumbles into. Also, something something mommy issues.

The only hint she is an archeologist is the flashback to the Peruvian Dig site in Legend, where it's implied she's doing some actual archology and not just plundering shit for her own amusement and benefit. And while you can level these same accusations at Indy and Nathan Drake, Indy at least shows some interest in the historical implications of the ruins he finds and Drake is a self professed treasure hunter, so he's at least honest he's only in it for the money most of the time.

Indy does indeed want to preserve the relics he uncovers. He's mostly motivated by the love of archeology, and actually confirm that these myths are real. He isn't in it for the money, as that's the driving motivation for his rival, Belloch. Yes he's still bashing his way through ancient history, but that's mostly due to outside influences pushing him to make extreme decisions to save his own life, and others. When the things aren't immediately life threatening, he's clearly trying to be as careful with any of the relics/locations he finds. Taking notes, gently dusting away debris to read glyphs, etc.

Drake, well yeah he's in it for the money, but I at least get the impression that he isn't rich? That this is how he pays the bills, so it's not like he's sitting on piles of cash in a mansion, he's a "working man" tomb raider? *shrugs* I stopped playing that series at game 2, as it was more of the same, of a game I only found semi-interesting. But i never got the impression that he actually ended up with a huge payout from his various heists.

 

[BrawlMan]

Which is why I called it "The Hottest of the Hot Takes", implying some sarcastic level of "Yeah, I know this ain't exactly a new interpretation". I probably should have preferenced it a little better, I've just been chewing on the feeling that Lara is the "good guy" because the game tells you she is and really for no other reason. Admittedly the fact Lara croft wears the title of "Archaeologist" but doesn't actually show any interest in her presumed profession and her callous disregard for both ancient architecture and history annoys me as someone who is interested in ancient history and ruins. The bit in Legend where she plows a forklift through several 1000+ year old walls because they were in her way and nobody so much as comments on this chapped me just a wee bit and the joke "Lara Croft is the worst thing to happen to ancient ruins since ISIS" came to mind.

Apparently Shadow of the Tomb raider addressed this idea more directly with Lara causing a disaster through her reckless adventuring, but I haven't played it.

I can't speak for all of the tomb raider games, but I just know in the first two games at least, she was heroicish. The third game and after is where it gets murky. The fourth game, on PlayStation 1, was just a recollection of different events that happened to Lara told from friends and colleagues different perspectives.

I'll let you in a little secret, but even Core Design began to hate the character after the fourth game. They were sick and tired of her and wanted to move on to something else, but Eidos just wouldn't let them at the time, or forced them to make impossible deadlines. It's why Angel of Darkness is such a mess.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Drake, well yeah he's in it for the money, but I at least get the impression that he isn't rich? That this is how he pays the bills, so it's not like he's sitting on piles of cash in a mansion, he's a "working man" tomb raider? *shrugs* I stopped playing that series at game 2, as it was more of the same, of a game I only found semi-interesting. But i never got the impression that he actually ended up with a huge payout from his various heists.

Drake just likes the thrill really. He's a nobody kid off the streets who wanted Indiana Jones adventures, so that's what he went and did. I'd say Chloe is more of a working man's Tomb Raider since she really is just in it for the money and nothing else.

 

[BrawlMan]

Drake just likes the thrill really. He's a nobody kid off the streets who wanted Indiana Jones adventures, so that's what he went and did

For Drake it's a combination of both. More so in the first and second game.

I'd say Chloe is more of a working man's Tomb Raider since she really is just in it for the money and nothing else.

Ironic enough, I've seen some people claim that Lost Legacy is a better Tomb Raider game than the entire reboot trilogy.

 

[Jarrito3002]

I am pretty sure that earlier in this thread I had said Battleborn>Overwatch and looking at Overwatch having content that Battleborn came out the gate with.

I miss you Battleborn I miss you so much.

Del The Funky Homosapien aka Deltron 3030 see us out.

 

[Dalisclock]

Indy does indeed want to preserve the relics he uncovers. He's mostly motivated by the love of archeology, and actually confirm that these myths are real. He isn't in it for the money, as that's the driving motivation for his rival, Belloch. Yes he's still bashing his way through ancient history, but that's mostly due to outside influences pushing him to make extreme decisions to save his own life, and others. When the things aren't immediately life threatening, he's clearly trying to be as careful with any of the relics/locations he finds. Taking notes, gently dusting away debris to read glyphs, etc.

Drake, well yeah he's in it for the money, but I at least get the impression that he isn't rich? That this is how he pays the bills, so it's not like he's sitting on piles of cash in a mansion, he's a "working man" tomb raider? *shrugs* I stopped playing that series at game 2, as it was more of the same, of a game I only found semi-interesting. But i never got the impression that he actually ended up with a huge payout from his various heists.

Indy also works a day job as a teacher at a college, and gives the impression he actually has a fucking degree in this shit and cares. I don't need a dissertation but just the occasional comment on the cool shit he's seeing from a historian's perspective. Unlike Lara's bland disinterest in any of this beyond "How do I open that door?" Lara finds machined metal gears in an incan ruin(the Incas being a civilization, not exactly known for complex metalworking or wheels) and instead of a "Most curious. Why would the Incas have gears?", you get...nothing. Lara gives no shits about anarchistic, out of place tech in ruins untouched for 500 years. Hell, she finds a fucking T-Rex and kills it and it doesn't phase her at all she's just wiped out the last T-Rex on earth, let alone dinosaurs have somehow survived to the present day in Peru, living off cave lichen.

The real irony of this is that Atlantis is part of the plot and presumably this could have been great foreshadowing to that reveal, but since lara doesn't care and never really ponders any of this, it just sits there and the player is left to kinda sorta intuit maybe the incas got gears or the ancient greeks got large unsupported domes from atlantis or something. Amusingly, Indy and the Fate of Atlantis from a few years before TR1 actually did much the same idea but Indy does actually comment on how some of this weird tech is out of place in bronze age mediterranean ruins(but Atlantis is introduced early in the story)

Drake, yeah, Drake is pretty Blue Collar. He never really makes any real money from his finds and even in 4, he's working an underwater salvage job with a middle class home, which shows just how much he's materially benefited from his past adventures. KInda like Cowboy Bebop where they never really move beyond the "Barely keeping the ship flying and food on the table" stage of existence, granted part of that is routinely having to fight lawsuits due to collateral damage from their escapades.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I actually agree with you there. Joel is an asshole and he did what he did for entirely selfish reasons, which I think works far better then anything around what the fireflies are(not) doing.

In TLoU 2, Abby could have been the daughter of any of the hundreds of people Joel killed over the years(I have no doubt Joel killed a lot of people in the 20 years between the intro and when the game picks up in Boston, considering how jaded he is and how comfortable he is with killing by that point) and it would have worked much the same way. "Joel, My dad was one of those random dudes you killed back in Pittsburgh. Remember him? Of course you don't" *SWING*

On a separate note, I know I've got the Hottest Take of all here....

Lara Croft (Pre-2013 reboot) is a terrible person. I've been playing the Crystal Dynamics games(Legend, Anniversary and Underworld) and Lara comes across as a rich asshole(though affable at times) who destroys priceless ancient archeological sites and steals the shineys BECAUSE SHE'S BORED. The Shineys don't even seem to mean anything to her, considering she's pretty rich(it's mentioned her parents left her like 3 mansions or some such) and what does she do with the archeological treasures she finds? She puts them in her house and...lets them sit there, where only she and her friends can look at them.

No mention of donating them to Museums, no talk of turning over the sites to UNESCO or the appropriate preservation societies or anything like that. Lara just finds some amazing ancient sites(constantly) with technology and complexity that nobody has ever seen before and would revolutionize the field 10 times over(even without the magical McGuffin BS) and doesn't seem to care at all, really. She just opens the doors, occasionally smashes a couple walls with a damn forklift and loots the priceless shiny bit and scampers off, often with the justification that "If I don't, some other rich person will get it before me" Because god forbid anyone have nicer stuff then Lara. Sure, late in the game there's some Nefarious plan involved but Lara has no way of knowing that at the time, so it feels like a justification after the fact that she stumbles into. Also, something something mommy issues.

The only hint she is an archeologist is the flashback to the Peruvian Dig site in Legend, where it's implied she's doing some actual archology and not just plundering shit for her own amusement and benefit. And while you can level these same accusations at Indy and Nathan Drake, Indy at least shows some interest in the historical implications of the ruins he finds and Drake is a self professed treasure hunter, so he's at least honest he's only in it for the money most of the time.

Maybe I'd settle at terrible female person, at least in a who'dathunkit sense. But really, overall it's gotta be Micah. If it wasn't for him, chances are the Blackwater heist would've turned out a success (it's rumored he was in cahoots with Colm O'Driscoll even back then), the gang wouldn't have needed to be on the run, and Arthur wouldn't have wound up calling in loans and being given a death sentence via TB.

Although it would've also meant there, like, wouldn't have been a sequel, or even an original game as we now know them.

 

[Dalisclock]

I can't speak for all of the tomb raider games, but I just know in the first two games at least, she was heroicish. The third game and after is where it gets murky. The fourth game, on PlayStation 1, was just a recollection of different events that happened to Lara told from friends and colleagues different perspectives.

I'll let you in a little secret, but even Core Design began to hate the character after the fourth game. They were sick and tired of her and wanted to move on to something else, but Eidos just wouldn't let them at the time, or forced them to make impossible deadlines. It's why Angel of Darkness is such a mess.

Oh, I've read up on the shenanigans from that series. Apparently the main 2 leads left after TR1, because they were pissed about Lara being marketed as a sex object as the sole focus of the advertising and the rest of the OG team left after 2. And Core apparently decided on a TR game every year because $$$$$$ which drove the quality into the ground, as it was apt to do. The AoD thing was particularly awful, it sounds like, where ther dev team was promised until like Fall and then had the rug pulled out from under them and told to release like 3-4 months early because Core was going bankrupt(apparently those annual TR releases weren't such a great idea after all).

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

...they were pissed about Lara being marketed as a sex object as the sole focus of the advertising....

Huh? I don't remember anything of the sort happen-

...ohhh. Right. I remember now. Silly me.

 

[Dalisclock]

Maybe I'd settle at terrible female person, at least in a who'dathunkit sense. But really, overall it's gotta be Micah. If it wasn't for him, chances are the Blackwater heist would've turned out a success (it's rumored he was in cahoots with Colm O'Driscoll even back then), the gang wouldn't have needed to be on the run, and Arthur wouldn't have wound up calling in loans and being given a death sentence via TB.

Although it would've also meant there, like, wouldn't have been a sequel, or even an original game as we now know them.

Did you mean to post this elsewhere? Unless there's an RDR2 connection I missed somewhere.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Did you mean to post this elsewhere? Unless there's an RDR2 connection I missed somewhere.

No, for some reason I read that hot take of Lara being a "terrible person" as her being simply "the worst". Hence, the retort ala Micah.

 

[Dalisclock]

No, for some reason I read that hot take of Lara being a "terrible person" as her being simply "the worst". Hence, the retort ala Micah.

Fair enough. For some reasons I didn't pick up on that.

 

[Dalisclock]

Ironic enough, I've seen some people claim that Lost Legacy is a better Tomb Raider game than the entire reboot trilogy.

I played 2013 TR and a few issues aside(The weird amount of what felt like Lara Torture Porn being part of it) enjoyed it. I was looking forward to the next game and then heard it doesn't really build upon the first game in any real sense and the third game looked like it might salvage the middle game and....nope, apparently not.