Your video game hot take(s) thread

[Ezekiel]

The God of War reboot sucks.

It has an average story that takes itself too seriously, with a protagonist that never convinces you as the same man from the original trilogy. The personality they made for him is bland. The original character wasn't great either, but at least they kept any introspection to a minimum and focused first and foremost on the gameplay. The Greek myths it was inspired by didn't have characters talking and talking idly for hours on end, making quips, which makes the reboot such an odd fit. I'd puke if Clash of the Titans had that everyday Marvel dialogue. It's embarrassing how seriously the game takes itself while feeling so amateur as a story. In the original trilogy, it was more like the story was just there to move you along through the epic, so it was easier to forgive its shortcomings. The narrator and cutscenes moved the story along nicely. The new game being presented in a single camera shot just puts you through more nothing in the story. Cutscenes could have expedited some of the more boring parts.

About 80 percent of the game is without music, replaced by the talking and the ambient sounds, a stark contrast to the bombastic, atmospheric scores of the original trilogy. No music would work if it was a game that oozed atmosphere and had complex levels, like the Souls series, but here, because the level design and art direction aren't that good, the lack of music just makes it all more boring after a while. As does the lack of comical violence and nudity.

Placated Kratos can't even jump. Some fighter. I could defeat him by simply getting above him. ***** won't even be able to see me half the time because the third person shooter camera gives him a terrible field of view. He can't turn his head separately. At least he can turn digitally instead of by slow analog now. That's something. The fixed cameras of the original trilogy worked much better. You could handle more enemies faster and traverse the levels more easily without constantly flicking at the camera. Didn't need those artificial danger indicators.

There aren't many exploration-focused 3D action-adventure games without jumping. Zelda didn't have it for the longest time, but it made up for that with better level design, and it still built platforms for the auto-jump. If the platforms were too far, Link would grab them. In God of War, the auto-jump is just there to get you to the next part of the room, and it doesn't even feel like a part of the gameplay. Makes the areas more one-dimensional than they used to be. Also gives you fewer ways to dodge, which means the enemies have fewer types of attacks. But yeah, if you can't jump, then your action-adventure better have really good level design to compensate, and God of War just doesn't. Some people call it Metroidvania, but how well are most areas designed? Being interconnected doesn't make one area good. Good level design would be much harder for God of War to do because it now has to accommodate the partner AI, walking and talking and cinematic moments.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

@Ezekiel For better or worse, original GoW formula died with Ascension, which in its own right was still a good game, but continuing down that path simply wouldn’t have yielded the critical acclaim or sales number to justify more games, let alone continuing resonance throughout the gaming world with the reboot. I agree some things were certainly done better in the classic games (ambient music, humor, more flexible gameplay mechanics, godlike camera work, etc.) but the new game is simply the only viable direction they could take with an aging franchise using a protagonist that most people thought an irredeemable joke at this point. It was pretty much a miracle project.

I also don’t think doing a new similar IP with a new protagonist would’ve garnered nearly as much praise, because people would still be thinking about GoW, and why they didn’t try doing something different with it.

Plus the ax. That could take out anyone above a grounded Kratos.

 

[BrawlMan]

@Ezekiel, I know we have our disagreements on the game, but I still consider God of War 4 a good. It's not perfect, and are definitely problems, but it's a good game. I agree with Kratos not being able to jump. That's my big grievance with the game, and I hope the sequel irons that out. Or at the very least, don't get me puzzles that can be easily solved just by jumping. The RPG elements are the weakest link, and a whole level of armor thing makes no sense. I'm a freaking demigod, no level armor should dictate how much damage I'm going to take. Kratos can take punishment.

Atreus is one of the best AI companions in gaming for me, and I love the little guy. Ask for the soundtrack, I actually like it. I'm not saying it's better than the older games, nor do I care, but I like it. The level design is not perfect, but at least it encourages exploration and you actually do give her water for the side quest you do. Or going off the beaten path. And there's a ton of extra details and goodies if you bother to look. I don't consider Kratos being out of character. It's still the same guy, even though they have a new voice actor. This is as a guy that regrets and I don't see him coming off as boring or generic. He's a man that's trying to run from his past, but he realizes he can't run from himself forever. That's the entire point. The problem with Kratos in later games is that he got two cartoonish and just a plain old selfish jackass you don't want to root for. Not that the Greek gods were much better choice either.

At least you bother to explain your reasons without insulting anybody for liking the game. Unlike some other people. Now there are better games then God of War 4, but that's not exactly a bad thing. DMC 5 walls have better combat, that's a fact of life. With that said, there are plenty to have worse combat than God of War 4.

I will throw you an extra bone. So all the professional critics out there that claim God of War was just a button masher before the fourth game, you all are a bunch of idiots and liars. There are some attacks you can spam yes, but play on a harder difficulties and try to use the same combo over and over, and odds are you will get punished for it horribly. You will be dying a lot.

Here's an extra gift for you @Ezekiel.

​

 

[Ezekiel]

@Ezekiel For better or worse, original GoW formula died with Ascension, which in its own right was still a good game, but continuing down that path simply wouldn’t have yielded the critical acclaim or sales number to justify more games, let alone continuing resonance throughout the gaming world with the reboot. I agree some things were certainly done better in the classic games (ambient music, humor, more flexible gameplay mechanics, godlike camera work, etc.) but the new game is simply the only viable direction they could take with an aging franchise using a protagonist that most people thought an irredeemable joke at this point. It was pretty much a miracle project.

I also don’t think doing a new similar IP with a new protagonist would’ve garnered nearly as much praise, because people would still be thinking about GoW, and why they didn’t try doing something different with it.

It's a bad game, and a new protagonist would have been much better than changing the character into something he just isn't. If new faces can't sell, then how did God of War ever become so popular and why, to use a more recent example, was Horizon a success? Or Ghosts of Tsushima? The majority of you all have already agreed that Kratos was a bad character by the end of the original saga, so instead of asking why they didn't try something different with him, most of you would just be grateful to play an original hero or heroine and leave that story behind. You know that I'm right. So that's what I would have done, a new protagonist in Greek or Egyptian mythology. Fixed camera angles, but new mechanics. Better mechanics. The same sense of spectacle, the lone linear exploration, the gory violence and the nudity that was in the original trilogy. But a better combat system and better platforming. I don't know why everybody assumes that if it doesn't play like the God of War reboot, then it has to play like the old God of War games. I don't want to keep playing the same game over and over either, as much as I like that trilogy.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It's a bad game, and a new protagonist would have been much better than changing the character into something he just isn't. If new faces can't sell, then how did God of War ever become so popular and why, to use a more recent example, was Horizon a success? Or Ghosts of Tsushima? The majority of you all have already agreed that Kratos was a bad character by the end of the original saga, so instead of asking why they didn't try something different with him, most of you would just be grateful to play an original hero or heroine and leave that story behind. You know that I'm right. So that's what I would have done, a new protagonist in Greek or Egyptian mythology. Fixed camera angles, but new mechanics. Better mechanics. The same sense of spectacle, the lone linear exploration, the gory violence and the nudity that was in the original trilogy. But a better combat system and better platforming. I don't know why everybody assumes that if it doesn't play like the God of War reboot, then it has to play like the old God of War games. I don't want to keep playing the same game over and over either, as much as I like that trilogy.

So did you finally play it?

 

[BrawlMan]

The majority of you all have already agreed that Kratos was a bad character by the end of the original saga, so instead of asking why they didn't try something different with him, most of you would just be grateful to play an original hero or heroine and leave that story behind.

I did complain and ask those questions. When it was rumored that Kratos would still be the protagonist of 4. Then confirm to be true with the first trailer, I was not happy. But like I told you before back on the easy allies form, I didn't just want to hate it for hate sake. I manned up and I gave it a chance. I genuinely like the game. I still prefer a new character though. If they ever decide a 6th mainline game, the whole game can be about Atreus is as an adult, or a completely brand new protagonist, I would not mind. I'll give the writers credit, they fixed the problems a lot of people have with Kratos in later games. Or enhanced whatever strengths he already had in terms of writing his character.

Also, to call God of War 4 a bad game is just intellectually dishonest. Fair enough, you don't like the game, nor the changes that have been made, that doesn't automatically make a bad game. I don't like the Yakuza series nor the Judgment series, but I don't consider them bad games. I see and understand why people enjoy them, but the gameplay loop doesn't exactly work for me. You get it, you don't like the direction.

If they kept the wide camera direction and not over the shoulder, I still would have been happy. If they had a new protag with that, I definitely would have been happy. I sort of see this as a RE4 scenario, where as soon as things went over the shoulder, there were a lot of (vocal minority) complaints despite massive sales. You have people that never played a Resident Evil game, and the fourth main line and she was the first game. This is the same case with God of War 4. You have plenty of old fans, but there are a lot of people that never played the older games that bought this game and played it.

If you don't want to play Ragnarok, I completely understand. At this point you're just going to have to start looking for other action games, which there are plenty of of course, to satisfy your needs. I'm definitely looking forward to the future of action games and 2D brawlers everywhere.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Yeah that's the other funny thing about the name. It's in honour of a game from 1980 that was reasonably popular at the time but has been overshadowed since and is so old most gamers under 25 have never even seen it. I'm in my thirties and my first Rougelike was Nethack, released 7 years after Rouge and already considered old by the time I played it in the 90s.

I wonder if it is going to be one of those odd names where the original meaning is completely lost to all but etymology buffs. "That thing on the house is called a silcock. Nobody knows why and stop giggling."

I can see people someday theorizing on the etymology of the term and thinking things like, "It's kind of like how you're a rogue just scrapping by and doing whatever you can to build yourself up."

 

[Ezekiel]

I I did complain an ass those questions. When it was rumored that Kratos would still be the protagonist of 4. Then confirm to be true with the first trailer, I was not happy. But like I told you before back on the easy allies form, I didn't just want to hate it for hate sake. I manned up and I gave it a chance. I genuinely like the game. I still prefer a new character though. If they ever decide a 6th mainline game, the whole game can be about Atreus is as an adult, or a completely brand new protagonist, I would not mind. I'll give the writers credit, they fixed the problems a lot of people have with Kratos in later games. Or enhanced whatever strengths he already had in terms of writing his character.

Also, to call God of War 4 a bad game is just intellectually dishonest. Fair enough, you don't like the game, nor the changes that have been made, that doesn't automatically make a bad game. I don't like the Yakuza series nor the Judgment series, but I don't consider them bad games. I see and understand why people enjoy them, but the gameplay loop doesn't exactly work for me. You get it, you don't like the direction.

If they kept the wide camera direction and not over the shoulder, I still would have been happy. If they had a new protag with that, I definitely would have been happy. I sort of see this as a RE4 scenario, where as soon as things went over the shoulder, there were a lot of (vocal minority) complaints despite massive sales. You have people that never played a Resident Evil game, and the fourth main line and she was the first game. This is the same case with God of War 4. You have plenty of old fans, but there are a lot of people that never played the older games that bought this game and played it.

If you don't want to play Ragnarok, I completely understand. At this point you're just going to have to start looking for other action games, which there are plenty of of course, to satisfy your needs. I'm definitely looking forward to the future of action games and 2D brawlers everywhere.

They didn't fix the problems with Kratos, they just wrote a new character with a completely different personality, which makes it all the more pretentious. The previous events are there, but it just isn't the same man. The characterization was never that deep that he could become so placated.

I gave it a chance too. Was at it for a month before an obtuse puzzle made me call it quits.

Mister_Ezekiel's God of War Trophies

1 Platinum • 5 Gold • 9 Silver • 22 Bronze

psnprofiles.com

Never had that problem with the original trilogy. I think it's because of the lack of jumping and the limited field of view. They had to think of other ways to do puzzles, so you throw your axe at stuff in sometimes pretty obtuse situations. It was in this big blueish room with a sphere in the middle and an elevator, I think.

Even ignoring my ineptness with that puzzle, I wouldn't intentionally spend four weeks up to that point playing a story-driven game like that. It's not my idea of fun. But there just wasn't much fun to be had.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

It's a bad game, and a new protagonist would have been much better than changing the character into something he just isn't. If new faces can't sell, then how did God of War ever become so popular and why, to use a more recent example, was Horizon a success? Or Ghosts of Tsushima? The majority of you all have already agreed that Kratos was a bad character by the end of the original saga, so instead of asking why they didn't try something different with him, most of you would just be grateful to play an original hero or heroine and leave that story behind. You know that I'm right. So that's what I would have done, a new protagonist in Greek or Egyptian mythology. Fixed camera angles, but new mechanics. Better mechanics. The same sense of spectacle, the lone linear exploration, the gory violence and the nudity that was in the original trilogy. But a better combat system and better platforming. I don't know why everybody assumes that if it doesn't play like the God of War reboot, then it has to play like the old God of War games. I don't want to keep playing the same game over and over either, as much as I like that trilogy.

Personally I had the once-futile hope that they actually could have done something more with Kratos, especially since the ending in 3 left that possibility open. I was looking for teasers as to what could possibly be next for years after, only to get…Ascension. Yay more GoW fun, but not the direction expected.

The whole theme of this new mythology reboot is going to ultimately be that it’s possible for people to change, and even be deserving of forgiveness; even a hell-bent god. Hell, the fact he released hope to humankind in 3 already shows he had the spark within him for that.

Of course new characters can succeed and become popular, but Santa Monica is “The God of War studio”. Sure, Guerrilla was “The Killzone studio”, but that’s more of a cult classic with a fraction of the GoW fanbase, even though I personally also have the same hope that something more substantial can be done with the Killzone franchise in the right hands (I mean, look at the lore to pull from), but that’s even more of longshot.

If you were right about dropping Kratos/GoW, then that would make the mountain of accolades the game’s received wrong. I don’t know what kind of middle ground could’ve been taken gameplay-wise between the classic and reboot formula, but the latter is where the industry’s at currently: movie-like, heavily story-driven cinematic “experiences”. Horizon, TLoU2, RDR2, etc. Anything short of that won’t have the same desired cultural impact for these platform holders as they look to expand audiences. I suppose FROMSOFT has found some middle ground, but they’ve already expanded upon and dominate that niche to where everything else feels “-like” a copycat.

Everyone loves movies, so what if we make movies playable? is pretty much what Sony’s been striving for the last couple generations now though.

 

[BrawlMan]

They didn't fix the problems with Kratos, they just wrote a new character with a completely different personality, which makes it all the more pretentious. The previous events are there, but it just isn't the same man. The characterization was never that deep that he could become so placated.

I I disagree, there's really not much pretentiousness in this game. Other than idiotic professional critics hyping up this game while putting down and bashing the older titles.

gave it a chance too. Was at it for a month before an obtuse puzzle made me call it quits.

You could have just gone to YouTube and looked at the puzzle solution. I had to do it for one puzzle, because it was that one where if you don't figure it out Kratos will die. I have a save file for it on my laptop, just in case I've ever decide to do another playthrough again.

Never had that problem with the original trilogy

I I did by the time the second, especially third game. There is really no reason to root for Kratos other than him being the "lesser evil", which is bull crap. This is not black and gray morality, this is black and black morality. The fact that the third game was mostly bending over backwards to make it as if Kratos was still the lesser evil, which makes it all the more frustrating and so full of itself. That is actual pretentiousness.

I wouldn't intentionally spend four weeks up to that point playing a story-driven game like that. It's not my idea of fun. But there just wasn't much fun to be had.

It only took me 3 weeks to beat the game, and I did most of the side quests.

 

[Xprimentyl]

They didn't fix the problems with Kratos, they just wrote a new character with a completely different personality, which makes it all the more pretentious.

I see where you're coming from. Never played any GoW after the second game years ago, but there's something to be said about using the skin of an established IP to effectively make a new IP. It shows the devs/publishers weren't willing to risk trying something new, so they disguised it as something they knew would sell on name recognition alone.

 

[Ezekiel]

I did by the time the second, especially third game. There is really no reason to root for Kratos other than him being the "lesser evil", which is bull crap. This is not black and gray morality, this is black and black morality. The fact that the third game was mostly bending over backwards to make it as if Kratos was still the lesser evil, which makes it all the more frustrating and so full of itself. That is actual pretentiousness.

When I said that I never had that problem with the original trilogy, I meant that I never got stuck on a puzzle like that. I wasn't making a point about one game being pretentious and another being sincere.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

When I said that I never had that problem with the original trilogy, I meant that I never got stuck on a puzzle like that. I wasn't making a point about one game being pretentious and another being sincere.

Even if you haven’t played the games, this pretty much says it all on the direction they chose to take, and why they stuck with Kratos even when many people thought he was annoying and a mistake -

 

[CaitSeith]

Bland games are still better than bad games.

PS: Already 69 pages... nice.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Bland games are still better than bad games.

That's not much of a hot take; I think most people would agree, by definition, a "bad" game can't be better than a "bland" one.

 

[laggyteabag]

Bland games are still better than bad games.

PS: Already 69 pages... nice.

That's not much of a hot take; I think most people would agree, by definition, a "bad" game can't be better than a "bland" one.

Well, I suppose it depends on what in particular is "bad" about a game.

So long as the game is playable, then I would take a bad game over a bland one. At least I will have something to talk about, some reaction to express, rather than a game just leaving my brain as quickly as it went in.

 

[BrawlMan]

When I said that I never had that problem with the original trilogy, I meant that I never got stuck on a puzzle like that. I wasn't making a point about one game being pretentious and another being sincere.

Okay then. I didn't have trouble with most puzzles in the original trilogy either, but a lot of those puzzles weren't good nor fun. I remember having a look up a video on a couple of them, but nothing more than that.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I see where you're coming from. Never played any GoW after the second game years ago, but there's something to be said about using the skin of an established IP to effectively make a new IP. It shows the devs/publishers weren't willing to risk trying something new, so they disguised it as something they knew would sell on name recognition alone.

Ascension is what it looks like when a developer doesn't want to take any risks, GoW '18 not so much. This thing could've crashed and burned hard, considering the changes they added to this franchise. Marketing Kratos without the Blades was probably reason alone for some at Santa Monica to start sweating. Adding a kid doubly so.

Taking the most vile, hateful, worn-out character nobody really wanted to see anymore, not even some of the developers themselves, and reviltalizing and recontextualizing him was the risk they were taking. It was the risk of the new Kratos that old fans would hopefully still embrace as Kratos. The name recognition is actually what could've really shot them in the foot here, by naming some new guy Kratos and having fans go 'Yeah, fuck this guy, this isn't our Kratos'. But that didn't happen, people saw this older and different Kratos as Kratos still, but in this new chapter of his life.

And this wasn't just a new Kratos, but a new Kratos that was coming into a gaming world that had largely moved on from him and replaced him with new hero characters. And I doubt the developers weren't aware of this risk - the mindset not being 'Let's make another GoW and it'll sell', but 'Let's make a different GoW and hopefully people will still like it'.

Lara Croft was also given a reboot/revitalisation, equally a once popular character gamers had moved on from, and while the first game was moderately succesful, I don't think you can say this new Lara in her new game garnered even a fraction of rejoicement that Kratos did in GoW'18. And that wasn't due to brand recognition.

 

[CaitSeith]

That's not much of a hot take; I think most people would agree, by definition, a "bad" game can't be better than a "bland" one.

Maybe you're right. Or maybe I'm just too ahead of the curve, and it will become a hot take when the newest Extra Punctuation video comes out in YouTube next week. I hope the former.

 

[Xprimentyl]

the mindset not being 'Let's make another GoW and it'll sell', but 'Let's make a different GoW and hopefully people will still like it'.

I've no stake or opinion on the latest GoW having not played any GoW in YEARS, but panning out, I think there's a case for either mindset. Personally, in the age of gaming where we've seen more than our fair share remasters and reboots, I tend to lean more pessimistically towards development started with "another God of War" (primarily) with just enough changes to make it feel different (secondarily.) I.e.: They started where the money already was, and trekked off in a new direction, like a pirate burying his booty 10 yards away in his backyard as opposed to burying it far away where no one would suspect to look for it.

When I talk about "risk," I'm talking about integrity: can we make an entirely new IP and have it stand on its own merits? I think they thought they couldn't, or at least it wasn't worth the risk when they were sitting on a cash cow in the age of "again, not new."

Again, I've no opinion on a game I've not played; I'm speaking from orbit. If the new GoW is a good game that harkens back to past success in name only, if they shelved so much of the spirit of the original vision of the characters involved, it should, well, I would prefer it have been tried as something entirely new if I was a fan of the original GoW games (which I'm not.)