rhodo said:
Saika, I'll just say that you can't say you dislike B:TS's story...... and then bring Ace Attorney as an example. Because, I've been playing those games. I hope you're not telling me they have a better story and characters than B:TS.
I'll have you know that I do dislike how BTS' story was handled, and I am boldfacedly making the claim that AA's stories are better written. What you say I can and cannot dislike based on your opinions has precisely no bearing on what I do like or dislike.
I will make my stance as clear as can be, then: Ace Attorney's characters are consistently well characterized. The narrative path is solid--while its story starts with unfilled gaps, as with any good mystery, the gameplay and narrative served by that gameplay in turn serves to fill those gaps in. Even some of the most obnoxious characters in AA (Luke Atmey? Mike Meekins? No?) didn't make me lose the emotional connect with them the way I did in BTS.
If you need an example, how about the birthday party in BTS? As someone who was bullied in his youth I honestly saw the events there coming from a mile off, but I'm not bothered by the use of the tropes, just its execution. At no point was there anything that garnered human sympathy about the little brats in that scene. Even when they cried for their mothers when Aiden basically started going Poltergeist on them, all that I experienced from the scene was an emotion: a desire for revenge.
I understand why the scene is there--it shows us how Jodie is different from her peers in more than just her link with Aiden--but at the end I didn't feel the urge to sympathize with or comfort Jodie after what had transpired. All I wanted was to make each of the little stereotypical little wankers at the party hurt more. It's a moment of emotion, but it's not particularly good storytelling.
The writing doesn't help to humanize Jodie for being bullied or not fitting in, or her bullies for doing what they do. They're flat antagonists and she is a very limited protagonist--she's trying to be non-confrontational and then trying to limit the damage Aiden causes, fine, but the game doesn't give us, the player, the emotional breadth and deeper understanding that could be there, and a narrative-centric experience has to offer those sorts of things to keep a player in their game. The scene they're in tells an event more than a story. We have a setting, but we don't have a mood and we don't have a lot of actual characters. Her antagonists are so poorly sold to us that when Jodie tells Aiden to stop, it's a plea that fell on deaf ears for me, because the emotional disconnect between their flat portrayal and situation they are in is such that they come across as the type who would be made suffer worse in broader settings (see also Carrie). The existence of Jodie and the other kids as stereotypes, of both shrinking violets and rich bullies, is ultimately not strong enough to carry the scene as anything but revenge fantasy; they don't feel 'real.' It tries to immerse us, but is using too shallow a portrayal. This is just one example from the game, but it's one that sticks out for me to demonstrate BTS' inability to sell us its characters and its mood, and ultimately David Cage's writing.
Ace Attorney isn't ashamed to be a visual novel/puzzle game that tugs at you emotionally, but it doesn't rely only on those emotional tugs. Let's take an example from there. Since you said you're still playing, I won't spoil too severely--at one point in Justice For All, you're expected to make an already vulnerable and victimized character suffer even further just so your case has a leg to stand on.
Why do I bring this up as my example? Because all the characters involved--both attorneys, the judge, the one who suffers, secondary cast...all of them have believable reactions, consistent to their characterization, to what you've done in the course of this case. In that moment, you feel -bad- for what you've done, and what you've made Phoenix do, because while you don't have any other choice in the linear course of the narrative, you're doing this at the expense of someone that the game has given you ample time to build sympathy for and learn about. The characters certainly look less real, and they and their situations are both grossly exaggerated, but they -feel- human because they're believable in what they do and how they respond. They take stereotypes and rise above them. In the limits of circumstances and setting, we can accept that they're the sorts of actions that people we know, including ourselves, would take. Ace Attorney also makes us feel emotions, yes, but it also engages on a deeper level than BTS because of its stronger writing and can call on that writing to provide the sort of connection between player and characters that BTS lacks.
Finally, isn't it hypocritical is it to say that I cannot dislike something you like on the basis of the story, when you in turn then say that you are free to dislike something that others like on the basis of the story? A bit of a double standard for claiming you may like your preferred game's story, and I may not like mine? I am at least willing to offer some evidence for my position, ironically enough given the examples at hand. You have merely said what I can and cannot do on the basis of your opinion. However, because of the inherent hypocrisy of the statement you have made, I hereby exercise my standards and decline to debate you further. Good day.
