Zero Punctuation: BioShock 2
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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Thats cool man,looking at it i was a bit blunt and besides i can understand that different British accents might be confusing if your not British i mean there are shit loads of them and anyway, i cant even tell the difference between an american and a canadian accent ffs.Ricotez said:
I agree with his statement about them just making a sequel just for the sake of getting more money. I like Bioshock 1 alot. But I couldn't get into bioshock 2 till the end and online wasn"t too hot itself.
Well, I for one, respectfully disagree (aka fuck off, Yahtzee). Bioshock was as much about the city as it was about the plot. SO yes, the plot was pretty much done, with no loose ends. But the city still stands. And it has more stories to tell.
Yes, the new plot isn't as good as the first game's but did you really expect wnything else? Bioshock one had one of the best stories ever told in a video game, and it had the single best supporting character in the history of forever - of course BS2 couldn't beat that - almost no other game could
BUT, by no means does it take anything from the first game. In fact, it's a welcome return to the city that made the first game awesome.
Where BS2 surpasses it's predecessor is the action. It's just so much better. Nothing more to add, really - it's just way, WAY better. Which, it turn, makes the game as enjoyable as the first - but from a different perspective. Plus, we can't complain about the mutliplayer.
Yes, the new plot isn't as good as the first game's but did you really expect wnything else? Bioshock one had one of the best stories ever told in a video game, and it had the single best supporting character in the history of forever - of course BS2 couldn't beat that - almost no other game could
BUT, by no means does it take anything from the first game. In fact, it's a welcome return to the city that made the first game awesome.
Where BS2 surpasses it's predecessor is the action. It's just so much better. Nothing more to add, really - it's just way, WAY better. Which, it turn, makes the game as enjoyable as the first - but from a different perspective. Plus, we can't complain about the mutliplayer.
My interest while playing wasn't so much in the character as much as the setting. Rapture, beautiful, distopian Rapture. The story was more along the lines of "Oh, follow the arrow." for me, because I was too busy wandering every stray hallway. The only plot point I liked was the fact that the moral choices don't affect YOU, but rather Eleanor. It had a big paternal symbolism to it. So yeah it was kinda weak compared to the first one, but I liked it anyways because expecting every sequel to live up to it's predecessor is just unfair.
I think that he's being a tad Nostalgic about the first one, in his original Bioshock review he certainly didn't give the impression it was tight enough to stand alone and I don't think it was, indeed most of the things he complains this time round about are just as much problems with the first game.
Yes in Bioshock 1 the story and plot twists were great and the villains/locations were more memorable but the storytelling and gameplay left a lot to be desired. I left the first game bitterly disappointed with the final resolution which comes down to 2 meaningless endings that have no real impact as you do not connect with the little sisters as characters.
I really appreciated the new ideas brought up in the new game, like the Father/daughter theme (lost on Yahtzee apparently) the idea of being a role model and the moral choices with real characters were much more engaging than the first. The combat is far more exciting and it's nice that they were able to apply lessons learnt from the first game (particularly the importance of keeping the action flowing by getting rid of 'pipe dream' replacing the photo research with film and being able to dual wield plasmids).
Other changes fans of the first game would notice are the plasmids and weapons, now upgrading them fully changes the way they work rather than just upping damage - chain lighting, incendiary rivets, corpse lurking bees all ignored by Yahtzee in this review.
I honestly think he got bogged down in the value of sequels rather than judging this game primarily by its own merits and flaws, if he had done so he may have commented on the utterly wasted underwater sequences that could have really made this game into something special or how being an armour clad, lighting totting, Drill weilding powerhouse detracts from the horror elements. In my opinion I am glad they made this game, I see this and its predecessor as two sides of the same coin, the original had and amazing story and memorable characters the second had vastly improved gameplay, combat and storytelling.
It may be true that the introduction to a new world will always be the most exciting adventure in terms of narrative but I think there were enough fresh ideas, improvements and more than enough adventure left to be had in Rapture to make it a great game that I enjoyed playing. I dislike the rather sweeping and arrogant statement that if you really liked the first you should undstand why this game shouldn't have been made - I like them both very much for what they do.
P.S. I'm sure you love being corrected but: The Alpha series big Daddies were made after the ones in the first game but were discontinued because they went insane.
Yes in Bioshock 1 the story and plot twists were great and the villains/locations were more memorable but the storytelling and gameplay left a lot to be desired. I left the first game bitterly disappointed with the final resolution which comes down to 2 meaningless endings that have no real impact as you do not connect with the little sisters as characters.
I really appreciated the new ideas brought up in the new game, like the Father/daughter theme (lost on Yahtzee apparently) the idea of being a role model and the moral choices with real characters were much more engaging than the first. The combat is far more exciting and it's nice that they were able to apply lessons learnt from the first game (particularly the importance of keeping the action flowing by getting rid of 'pipe dream' replacing the photo research with film and being able to dual wield plasmids).
Other changes fans of the first game would notice are the plasmids and weapons, now upgrading them fully changes the way they work rather than just upping damage - chain lighting, incendiary rivets, corpse lurking bees all ignored by Yahtzee in this review.
I honestly think he got bogged down in the value of sequels rather than judging this game primarily by its own merits and flaws, if he had done so he may have commented on the utterly wasted underwater sequences that could have really made this game into something special or how being an armour clad, lighting totting, Drill weilding powerhouse detracts from the horror elements. In my opinion I am glad they made this game, I see this and its predecessor as two sides of the same coin, the original had and amazing story and memorable characters the second had vastly improved gameplay, combat and storytelling.
It may be true that the introduction to a new world will always be the most exciting adventure in terms of narrative but I think there were enough fresh ideas, improvements and more than enough adventure left to be had in Rapture to make it a great game that I enjoyed playing. I dislike the rather sweeping and arrogant statement that if you really liked the first you should undstand why this game shouldn't have been made - I like them both very much for what they do.
P.S. I'm sure you love being corrected but: The Alpha series big Daddies were made after the ones in the first game but were discontinued because they went insane.
Here's a question I have for people who's reaction to Rapture is "been there, done that." I don't mean this particular game, I mean the idea "We've already seen Rapture, where are some fresh ideas."
Well, where are these people when the one billionth iteration of Tolkien comes out in RPG form? Or the latest edition of Space Operas 'R' Us?
I swear, I often see "Bring out System Shock 3" right after people write that Rapture is all done. Look, do people not understand why there is no System Shock 3? Irrational is not allowed to make System Shock 3 because Electronic Arts owns the IP for it. If they had been allowed to make System Shock 3, it probably would have played much similar to the original Bioshock though the story obviously would have been different.
Look the truth is I've bought some games that Yahtzee "likes" and um... they were alright... I guess...
I mean I got pretty bored of Saints Row 2 in the first couple of days and I liked it better when it was called Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. But if Yahtzee likes it, more power to him.
I've played a lot more in Bioshock 2 though, both single-player and multi-player. It's fun for me. I like to have fun when I'm playing games, I'm funny that way.
Well, where are these people when the one billionth iteration of Tolkien comes out in RPG form? Or the latest edition of Space Operas 'R' Us?
I swear, I often see "Bring out System Shock 3" right after people write that Rapture is all done. Look, do people not understand why there is no System Shock 3? Irrational is not allowed to make System Shock 3 because Electronic Arts owns the IP for it. If they had been allowed to make System Shock 3, it probably would have played much similar to the original Bioshock though the story obviously would have been different.
Look the truth is I've bought some games that Yahtzee "likes" and um... they were alright... I guess...
I mean I got pretty bored of Saints Row 2 in the first couple of days and I liked it better when it was called Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. But if Yahtzee likes it, more power to him.
I've played a lot more in Bioshock 2 though, both single-player and multi-player. It's fun for me. I like to have fun when I'm playing games, I'm funny that way.
Ok, I haven't played Bioshock 2 yet, so I can't say as for how fun or not the game may be or indeed whether or not the story is any good, but I do have to say that the prototype big daddy being better then the rest makes sense to me. The big daddies were more than capable of killing most any other splicer, Jack (wasn't that his name in the first game? doesn't matter)on the other hand was made into a superhuman death machine right quick and isn't too crazy to hold a gun straight.
The big daddies are basically Bioshock's super soldiers. They are actually a prime example of Yahtzee's own much-belabored point about superhuman fighting forces: without their free will and pretty much incapable of rebellion, they work. The prototype, on the other hand, can do all the things he could do as a normal human, only now he's a big daddy and can rape you with a giant drill. Having a whole set of dudes just like the prototype would have been very BAD for Ryan, as I doubt they'd have but up with his bullshit for long before becoming the rough'n'tumble gang of thugs that would run Rapture if this were any other game.
But yeah, I didn't and don't expect much from bioshock 2
The big daddies are basically Bioshock's super soldiers. They are actually a prime example of Yahtzee's own much-belabored point about superhuman fighting forces: without their free will and pretty much incapable of rebellion, they work. The prototype, on the other hand, can do all the things he could do as a normal human, only now he's a big daddy and can rape you with a giant drill. Having a whole set of dudes just like the prototype would have been very BAD for Ryan, as I doubt they'd have but up with his bullshit for long before becoming the rough'n'tumble gang of thugs that would run Rapture if this were any other game.
But yeah, I didn't and don't expect much from bioshock 2
The only thing the first game really had going for it was the intro, the subtly and pacing as Jack first arrived at Rapture, by the mid point the game became a succession of fetch quests that really began to get boring all the way up to the twist ending which you either loved or hated.vortexgods said:
Bioshock 2 makes you feel like you're being dumped into the middle of the first game where you're just running around doing the same old, and that's why many people felt deja vu playing the second game.
All the subtly and pacing was gone, the game needed a way better intro to make Johny Topsides character more presentable as a protagonist and that just wasn't to be.
Plus, it would have been more interesting if he started off human and ended up a Big Daddy, that would have giving the game the tragic sense the game was going for.
The story had a way better premise than the first one's "let's make another test tube super solider protagonist a la Solid Snake and save that bit of info until the M. Night Shyamalan ending," it just wasn't executed well. By the time the story started to get interesting, I'm pretty sure a lot of people didn't care considering how boring the intro was.MrOrange said:
The combat and ending was this games saving grace for me, but you have to be a fan to get that far to enjoy it.
I enjoyed Bioshock 2 for the most part but it did have it's flaws.
You can't kill Sophia Lamb
She's so aggravating throughout the game but the most you can do is determine whether Elenor kills or saves her through the bad or good ending.
Adam Gathering
What was wrong with saving or harvesting on the spot?
Disapointing Ending
The original had a climactic tussle with Frank Fontaine. This just has a bit-bigger-than-normal splicer fight.
You can't kill Sophia Lamb
She's so aggravating throughout the game but the most you can do is determine whether Elenor kills or saves her through the bad or good ending.
Adam Gathering
What was wrong with saving or harvesting on the spot?
Disapointing Ending
The original had a climactic tussle with Frank Fontaine. This just has a bit-bigger-than-normal splicer fight.
I asked last week, but I'll ask again, since once again you have a game that works on PS3 and X360, and around the time of writing the first Bioshock you said in the console wars that your X360 was broken, so did you play the original on PS3, or was it not out for it then? But do you have a prefered system between the X360 and the PS3? Do you tend to choose either of them over the other sometimes, or it's nothing personal if you choose one over the other?