Zero Punctuation: Call of Duty: Black Ops 2

[Erttheking]

Guys seriously this is getting out of hand. I mean come on, is this really accomplishing anything? This isn't a insightful debate, this is one side going "f@#$ you" and the other side also going "f@#$ you". This is accomplishing NOTHING! Come on! You're not trying to debate respectfully to change the other person's opinion, you're telling the other person that their opinion is stupid and that they're stupid for thinking it. You're just trying to insult each other now. It's just...pointless and does nothing but stir anger and hatred, and IMHO we already have more than enough of that to go around on this website. Come on guys. Let it go.

 

[Nazulu]

A fanboy of what? If you can answer me that I may be able to respond. I was not defending Yahtzee, I was pointing out that he is not supposed to be taken seriously. It is not his intention, and so people doing so are missing the point.

Just like all of those racist, sexist, ignorant comedians. Who are actually none of those things because they are telling jokes and trying to get a laugh, not making serious points.

I am not sure what fight I am supposedly picking (genuinely, I actually cannot see what I said that would be offensive except the suck up part perhaps).

I didn't expect such a neutral response from you.

What difference does it make if I get it right or wrong that you're a fan boy of? I don't even know what you're interests are. I'm just making an assumption like you did about Yahtzee's fans so you know what it's like.

Also, I know very well you're not defending Yahtzee, especially saying he's not even a reviewer. I don't mean to preach, but I can't help myself. I find most reviewers can't even review properly, just saying a story is good with out going into detail at all. However, I later found out all these reviewers have their strengths and appeal to certain people. This is Yahtzee's site so obviously your going to be seeing a lot of people agreeing with him because they have a similar opinion as him. I couldn't care less that you don't consider him a real reviewer. If you find him full of shit, fair enough.

I agree that no one should take him too seriously (at least a little to make a good argument), but he does press the right buttons when making blanket statements himself, so I don't blame people when they get pissed off. That's what he's trying to do I'm very sure, I'm very sure that's his intention because he shows no subtlety.

 

[Legion]

A fanboy of what? If you can answer me that I may be able to respond. I was not defending Yahtzee, I was pointing out that he is not supposed to be taken seriously. It is not his intention, and so people doing so are missing the point.

Just like all of those racist, sexist, ignorant comedians. Who are actually none of those things because they are telling jokes and trying to get a laugh, not making serious points.

I am not sure what fight I am supposedly picking (genuinely, I actually cannot see what I said that would be offensive except the suck up part perhaps).

I didn't expect such a neutral response from you.

What difference does it make if I get it right or wrong that you're a fan boy of? I don't even know what you're interests are. I'm just making an assumption like you did about Yahtzee's fans so you know what it's like.

Also, I know very well you're not defending Yahtzee, especially saying he's not even a reviewer. I don't mean to preach, but I can't help myself. I find most reviewers can't even review properly, just saying a story is good with out going into detail at all. However, I later found out all these reviewers have their strengths and appeal to certain people. This is Yahtzee's site so obviously your going to be seeing a lot of people agreeing with him because they have a similar opinion as him. I couldn't care less that you don't consider him a real reviewer. If you find him full of shit, fair enough.

I agree that no one should take him too seriously (at least a little to make a good argument), but he does press the right buttons when making blanket statements himself, so I don't blame people when they get pissed off. That's what he's trying to do I'm very sure, I'm very sure that's his intention because he shows no subtlety.

While I do not find any faults in what you are saying, I am still not entirely sure what annoyed you about my first post. That I criticised people for being annoyed with Yahtzee? Or those that agree with him? That I did so with such a generalisation?

Honestly, I don't actually know.

 

[Nazulu]

Guys seriously this is getting out of hand. I mean come on, is this really accomplishing anything? This isn't a insightful debate, this is one side going "f@#$ you" and the other side also going "f@#$ you". This is accomplishing NOTHING! Come on! You're not trying to debate respectfully to change the other person's opinion, you're telling the other person that their opinion is stupid and that they're stupid for thinking it. You're just trying to insult each other now. It's just...pointless and does nothing but stir anger and hatred, and IMHO we already have more than enough of that to go around on this website. Come on guys. Let it go.

Doesn't work. I know, I've seen it lots of times. Of course you should still encourage thoughtful debate though.

Best you can do is quote people and try to reach a point that's more tolerable. I do it every now and again and you'll be surprised that most people don't see it as a big deal at all. They just move on and speak to the same people they cursed out before in another thread asking them what their favourite movie is.

I can assure you nothing is out of control, it is the same every where, internet and no internet.

 

[Nazulu]

A fanboy of what? If you can answer me that I may be able to respond. I was not defending Yahtzee, I was pointing out that he is not supposed to be taken seriously. It is not his intention, and so people doing so are missing the point.

Just like all of those racist, sexist, ignorant comedians. Who are actually none of those things because they are telling jokes and trying to get a laugh, not making serious points.

I am not sure what fight I am supposedly picking (genuinely, I actually cannot see what I said that would be offensive except the suck up part perhaps).

I didn't expect such a neutral response from you.

What difference does it make if I get it right or wrong that you're a fan boy of? I don't even know what you're interests are. I'm just making an assumption like you did about Yahtzee's fans so you know what it's like.

Also, I know very well you're not defending Yahtzee, especially saying he's not even a reviewer. I don't mean to preach, but I can't help myself. I find most reviewers can't even review properly, just saying a story is good with out going into detail at all. However, I later found out all these reviewers have their strengths and appeal to certain people. This is Yahtzee's site so obviously your going to be seeing a lot of people agreeing with him because they have a similar opinion as him. I couldn't care less that you don't consider him a real reviewer. If you find him full of shit, fair enough.

I agree that no one should take him too seriously (at least a little to make a good argument), but he does press the right buttons when making blanket statements himself, so I don't blame people when they get pissed off. That's what he's trying to do I'm very sure, I'm very sure that's his intention because he shows no subtlety.

While I do not find any faults in what you are saying, I am still not entirely sure what annoyed you about my first post. That I criticised people for being annoyed with Yahtzee? Or those that agree with him? That I did so with such a generalisation?

Honestly, I don't actually know.

That you criticised people for agreeing with Yahtzee.

"The people calling him insightful are generally either suck ups, missing the point or both."

Must mean nothing to you, but I have to tell you that it's pretty damn aggresive. It's like when people say that I'm blinded by nostalgia because I prefer some older games. They're calling me ignorant and a waste of time. I usually ignore it but I reckon you're better than that.

"The people who call him funny are obviously giving subjective opinions."

And just to make sure I don't make another assumption. Do you mean the people calling him funny are the 'only' ones with subjective opinions? It's pretty suspicious mate.

 

[nobodysoldier25]

First off, I just want to say that if you like Black Ops II so much, it doesn't matter what this guy you apparently don't like thinks. It's not his job to validate your decision to play and like a game. He gives his honest opinion, and he didn't like it, just like he never likes modern FPSs. Surprise. He's allowed to not like something you like. It's his opinion.

Second, I've never seen so many people get so defensive over almost nothing. Yahtzee calls white people privileged, and then there's this whole backlash of white guilt nonsense. Anyone that felt the need to comment negatively about that is probably the exact kind of person he's assuming this game is for.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

I didn't know who it was with the bag over their head...

Spoiler: Possible spoiler

I knew it wasn't who they said it was, but I thought the guy you shot was still following me, or at least somewhere around me. I did zone out a bit while playing that level.

Really dude? I spotted that one coming a mile away. Literally as soon as you lost contact with him.

I'm surprised he didn't mention the multiple endings/storylines but I guess on the whole it didn't make much difference at all if you don't like it in the first place. I liked this one more than the other games post-WaW, but CoD1, 4 and WaW are still better to me. I really need to stop saying I'm not going to buy these games when I know I will anyway, I can't help it, I still enjoy them and my friends still play them.

 

[Legion]

That you criticised people for agreeing with Yahtzee.

"The people calling him insightful are generally either suck ups, missing the point or both."

Must mean nothing to you, but I have to tell you that it's pretty damn aggresive. It's like when people say that I'm blinded by nostalgia because I prefer some older games. They're calling me ignorant and a waste of time. I usually ignore it but I reckon you're better than that.

"The people who call him funny are obviously giving subjective opinions."

And just to make sure I don't make another assumption. Do you mean the people calling him funny are the 'only' ones with subjective opinions? It's pretty suspicious mate.

I did not (intentionally) criticise those agreeing with him. I said people saying he was insightful are missing the point because he is not really trying to be. When he is talking about the game being about racist white people, he is not actually making a thought provoking point about the racist video game creators, he is making a joke. He is not providing insight into the industry or games, he is taking a point and exaggerating it for comic effect.

Like when a comedian says "You ever notice how white people do X?" Okay, some white people may do whatever they say next, but they are not making a social commentary, they are making a joke. It may ring true in some cases, but it's not their intent for you to walk away taking it seriously. If I then after seeing that, went out and tried convincing people that white people do X because I saw the comedian saying it, I'd be missing the point.

In regards to the second part. Not at all. What I mean was that saying he is funny is subjective, nobody can claim that he is objectively funny, so if people see his jokes about racist white developers and do not find it funny, people cannot criticise them for it.

Whereas those saying he is making a valid point about the racism in the game, I feel can be criticised for taking him too seriously. As he is not really supposed to be taken seriously.

At any rate, I edited my post so as not to unintentionally insult anybody who might mistake what I meant.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

I didn't know who it was with the bag over their head...

Spoiler: Possible spoiler

I knew it wasn't who they said it was, but I thought the guy you shot was still following me, or at least somewhere around me. I did zone out a bit while playing that level.

Really dude? I spotted that one coming a mile away. Literally as soon as you lost contact with him.

See, I never even realized you lost contact with him. Like I said, I did kinda zone out a bit that level.

 

[Nazulu]

That you criticised people for agreeing with Yahtzee.

"The people calling him insightful are generally either suck ups, missing the point or both."

Must mean nothing to you, but I have to tell you that it's pretty damn aggresive. It's like when people say that I'm blinded by nostalgia because I prefer some older games. They're calling me ignorant and a waste of time. I usually ignore it but I reckon you're better than that.

"The people who call him funny are obviously giving subjective opinions."

And just to make sure I don't make another assumption. Do you mean the people calling him funny are the 'only' ones with subjective opinions? It's pretty suspicious mate.

I did not (intentionally) criticise those agreeing with him. I said people saying he was insightful are missing the point because he is not really trying to be. When he is talking about the game being about racist white people, he is not actually making a thought provoking point about the racist video game creators, he is making a joke. He is not providing insight into the industry or games, he is taking a point and exaggerating it for comic effect.

Like when a comedian says "You ever notice how white people do X?" Okay, some white people may do whatever they say next, but they are not making a social commentary, they are making a joke. It may ring true in some cases, but it's not their intent for you to walk away taking it seriously. If I then after seeing that, went out and tried convincing people that white people do X because I saw the comedian saying it, I'd be missing the point.

In regards to the second part. Not at all. What I mean was that saying he is funny is subjective, nobody can claim that he is objectively funny, so if people see his jokes about racist white developers and do not find it funny, people cannot criticise them for it.

Whereas those saying he is making a valid point about the racism in the game, I feel can be criticised for taking him too seriously. As he is not really supposed to be taken seriously.

Like I said before, a lot of people do believe he is being insightful, and possibly Yahtzee believes in his reviews as well. So they can't help but take it seriously. It seems your intentions are good, but others will disagree and even look down on it. I'm just saying 'you're not supposed to not take it seriously' may not be enough for most.

As you know, our minds work differently, so not everyone will be able to let it go as well as you do either.

If you ask me, Yahtzee makes some good points and any one can be criticised when expressing themselves. Feel free to call me out on it.

 

[Treblaine]

Dude they already got like Heartbeat sensors, Trophy systems and other magical whizbang tech in COD. Howabout a railgun or something as a sniper rifle? Or even just some sleeker looking guns. Don't need laser or plasma tech, just some evolution of what there is.

Or gyro jet guns (rocket-propelled rounds). Fletchette guns? (guns which fire a bunch of slivers in a spray like an SMG/shotgun hybrid).


Look at the rockets. Same SMAW, RPG and AA lock-on only guns.


Or whatabout even just some interesting toys to actually add? Same UAVs, CUAVs, RCXs, choppers, Reapers, attack dogs. Heck the little robot was already in MW3. Just has a new skin. What's new? The guardian and drone? And why when I hack a turret or guardian do I not take control of it?

The principal of the Heartbeat sensor is here with the MMS in a different from, though. Trophy system actually exists (but isn't man-portable yet) though is present in Black Ops 2 as equipment.

Railgun is still way far-far future technology. It is hardly even viable for a giant ships cannon. The problem still is with the energy source. A .50 BMG and similar cartridges are for all the foreseeable future (out to 2025) fare superior to any Railgun tech for any sort of sniper rifle.

Remember, these .50 BMG sniper rifles are already far more powerful than they need to be for human targets or even armoured human targets. Current prototype successors to the .50BMG are of less powerful rounds with similar accuracy and range. A railgun just adds EVEN MORE overkill wile introducing far more accuracy problems. For example, no one knows how to reliably spin a projectile from a Railgun to make it accurate, yet .50BMG rifles inherently spin bullets for stability.

Gyrojet pistol disappeared for good reason: they were crap.

Other than extreme unreliability they were hideously inaccurate which limited them to extreme close range but here is the problem, they accelerate through the air so at the muzzle they are so weak you can stop the rocket with your hand. It's an awful technology to solve a problem of poor pistol lethality that has been solved with rounds like 10mm Auto (very powerful, a pistol sized magnum round) while retaining accuracy in a moderately sized pistol.

Flechette shotgun shells were also experimented with in Vietnam and found to be crap, standard pellets were found to be far superior.

UAVs can now detect stationary ghost users?

Look you can't complain about UAV, that can't change too much for balance issues as the UAV has remained the same over 80 years from 1945 in World at War to to 2025. Radar is not going to change much.

If you want "far far way crazy speculative future" then play Halo. Not Black Ops 2. I think you are taking the "future" part too far. It's ONLY 12 years in our future. And considering even Modern Warfare 3 is set in 2016, it's only 9 years ahead of "Modern" Warfare 3. Different universes though.

 

[Moosejaw]

If you collectively insult a group of people for the actions of individuals, that group of people generally won't like it!

Incredibly shocking, I know.

It's one thing to talk about politics related to games, but no matter how right you think you are, if you're just screaming at people a lot of folks are not going to be convinced, they're going to think you're a douchebag.

 

[TAdamson]

I see Yahtzee has bought into the "white privilege" bullshit.

And apparently any racism directed at myself is completely ok because I happen to share similar levels of melanin to a group of dead people whom I have no direct connection to.

Well fuck you Yahtzee, you racist ****.

I you can't tell the difference between white people being subtly or overtly mocked for the way that white people act and actual discrimination then you deserve to mocked for the way you act.

 

[xDarc]

I can't believe more people don't play this just for zombie, really is the brightest gem beneath the Treyarch CoD games.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Second, I've never seen so many people get so defensive over almost nothing. Yahtzee calls white people privileged, and then there's this whole backlash of white guilt nonsense. Anyone that felt the need to comment negatively about that is probably the exact kind of person he's assuming this game is for.

I would not be quite so upset with Yahtzee if I thought for just one damn second that he actually gave two bits of a shit about the depiction of beige-colored foreigners in modern FPS games. I'm not exactly sure what brought the issue to a boil but I've noticed that sometime in the last six months all the British gamers must have decided to get together for tea, crumpets and setting their agenda to, 'Fuck anything to do with American jingoism.'

You see I've always been a little suspect of British people suddenly discovering their inner humanitarian whenever a game kicks them out to the curb so that it can rub out thirty shades of red, white and blue all over itself. It's like a guy suddenly discovering his inner feminist because when he and a male friend decided to a brothel together to preform some sort of creepy male bonding ritual with a prostitute, but the working girl happened to be really into his friend and he ended up being left with a case of blue balls.

Not to be racist against smurfs or anything.

 

[TAdamson]

Yahtzee really needs to stop reviewing FPSs because it's really getting embarrassing for him.

You mean he should stop reviewing military FPS's with shitty stories. Why would he stop reviewing the other ones?

'Sides. He liked Spec Ops. Not technically an True FPS as the "Gun" animation is replaced by the 3rd person animation but there is otherwise difference between them.... Apart from the fact that one an excellently written indictment on the military power-fantasy that these games engender, and the other is conspiracy-theory laden, discontinuous, hack nonsense that would bewilder Tom Clancy. Anybody not intelligent enough to tell which description fits which game step forward in to this ditch I've dug filled with syringes.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Wow, worst review EVER! Any professional review would give this game, the most amazing in history, a 90-100 or 4/5. Every single part of this game is new and interesting and amazing, you're inability to recognize that demonstrates how bad you are at reviewing. When COD:B03 comes out in 2 years you can correct you mistake by giving it a 90-100 like every other reviewer will. Be sure to do the same for COD:MW4, COD:MW5, COD:BO4, COD:MW6, etc. They will ALL be amazing and look amazing and just be more amazing then the amazingly amazing game that came before. In fact they'll be so amazing they'll amaze you into an amazement coma of amazement.

He went into an ideological allergic reaction followed by a reboot of his politics subsystem, spouting out half-arsed nonsense and a mouthful of the current stance du jour.

I like it when people go apeshit over white folks being evil supremacists dabbling in imperialism and slavery, as they were pretty much the last ones to join the fun. Besides, slavery and racism and supremacist world views are very much still in effect as we speak, and none of the major players are of white or other pale complexion.

I guess the Palestine blood rag around their necks cuts off oxygen and blood flow, don't have any proper explanation for that phenomenon.

OT: I like Blops 2. I really wanted to hate the first one, but it was a fun ride and an absolutely OK competitive multiplayer title.

If you find politics getting in the way of delivering proper reviews, it's time to either write more books on... things or start a cult of some sorts.

 

[TAdamson]

Second, I've never seen so many people get so defensive over almost nothing. Yahtzee calls white people privileged, and then there's this whole backlash of white guilt nonsense. Anyone that felt the need to comment negatively about that is probably the exact kind of person he's assuming this game is for.

I would not be quite so upset with Yahtzee if I thought for just one damn second that he actually gave two bits of a shit about the depiction of beige-colored foreigners in modern FPS games. I'm not exactly sure what brought the issue to a boil but I've noticed that sometime in the last six months all the British gamers must have decided to get together for tea, crumpets and setting their agenda to, 'Fuck anything to do with American jingoism.'

You see I've always been a little suspect of British people suddenly discovering their inner humanitarian whenever a game kicks them out to the curb so that it can rub out thirty shades of red, white and blue all over itself. It's like a guy suddenly discovering his inner feminist because when he and a male friend decided to a brothel together to preform some sort of creepy male bonding ritual with a prostitute, but the working girl happened to be really into his friend and he ended up being left with a case of blue balls.

Not to be racist against smurfs or anything.

I don't particularly understand that analogy in your second paragraph but anyhoo.

It's not just the British actually (It's also not all British... and I'm sure that some in the land of the free get a little tired of the zealous nationalism some Americans exhibit.) Some of us Australians get a little tired by American Exceptionalism.

While I personally think that American foreign interventionist policy have been, on balance, a net positive for the planet the way that it gets portrayed in Call of Duty, Battlefield, Medal of Honor, etc etc is fucking moronic.

Which is weird. Why does it even need to do this? Most of the people playing couldn't give two cropulant evacuations about the story of these games and it wouldn't be hard to write something that wasn't as demented as BlOps.

There are plenty of American news journals, books, TV shows and movies that have had thoughtful writing on the subject of war. Why not games? Why must it seem like the insane gibbering of a Fox News correspondent who's read too much Tom Clancy?

 

[impocalyptic]

I don't have any real problem with this game, but I'll admit that I'm just sick of it at this point. The supposed racism seems to be mostly due to the fact that the last time we fought anyone white, it was the nazis. We've been fighting minorities in every other war. Maybe it's conditioned into us at this point, that all bad guys are non-white because that's the only enemy we've fought directly for the past 60 years.

 

[1nfinite_Cros5]

It was surprisingly well-executed for his point as well. Never thought he'd find a way to use it as an example.

What reference was that, again?

The spider. There's a point in the game where, after you outrun it, it's in a state where

Spoiler

it has only one leg left and is a minimal threat