Zero Punctuation: Dante's Inferno

[warren135]

Im really sorry for being the dude that dosnt know what she's doing but every time i try to watch any video on the site i get a montage of clips and not what im actually trying to watch. What am i dong wrong?

 

[DoctorObviously]

Dante's Inferno is nothing special, God of War is nothing special.

 

[shadow skill]

Here's my 2 cents.

Geldon was simply generalizing specific attributes of said games, because they have indeed become a staple of what is loosely defined as said genre. Or atleast, said elements play a heavy role in said titles (combos, chains, upgrading, etc.) Thus, said elements are becoming boring and said genre (or atleast, what the next-gen era has decided is the said genre based on these attributes) needs to step it up and integrate more into said genre, to make it seem less like other games in the same said genre.

Just because something is tried, tested, and proven, does not mean it will not eventually get boring and repetitive.

More elements mean more to do other than the tried and tested. Thus, he generalizes that said genre is getting boring because it refuses to integrate more than what already "works" and is "perfected". Perhaps the DMC comment was made because DMC popularized these elements, did come first when it comes to the generalized criteria, and now everyone who makes said genre game, usually follows rather the DMC or the GoW criteria without doing much else with it.

So why is it then, that even out of the most popular games they are all mechanically different from one another? Also where does Onimusha fall into this whole thing since it was popular for it's day and according to wikipedia is Capcom's fifth biggest franchise, released months before DMC. It also has a different director. DMC can't be the origin of anything. It's just the first game alot of people heard of. One is certainly free to have that opinion, one isn't free to base that opinion on their own facts.

I happen to think that shooters have this sort of problem in spades but I'm not going to say that all of these games are copying Halo because Halo did the whole thing first when games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark clearly predate it. Hell Halo wasn't even the first game to do online multiplayer on consoles, the SNES had a modem attachment (I'm talking about Xband specifically.) back in the mid to late 90's. When people claim that something is copying another thing so loosely, when the time comes to point out the real copies, the point being made gets covered up in this sort of silly stuff. DI isn't a GOW clone because it is in the same genre as perhaps hundreds of other games, it is a clone because whole animations that have no real business being lifted, have been.

It's like the whole mess with Nick Simmons' Incarnate, (Check the forums for threads on this.) there is a difference between emulating artists you like and tracing their panels while trying pass off your traces as original work.

 

[JetstreamGW]

Well, I'm sure it's been said but never let it be said that I'm not enough of a wanker to want to hear myself speak (type?)


The lustful being swept away by a tornado or whatever, at least according to my High School english teacher, was supposed to be kind of ironic. You see, the lustful were swept away by the "winds of their passion" in life and as such in Hell they get tossed around by literal wind.


Eh? Eh?

 

[soapyshooter]

Rampant Cocks- a Michael Bay Film. Oh dear god, i lol'd so hard i thought i was gonna puke up my dinner.

 

[Belbe]

Awesome Yahtz, just what I needed after work.

 

[Kitsumon]

Dante's Inferno is a good game... if you never played God Of War. I tried it out and got bored after an hour and did swap it out for God Of War 2.

I've played both god of war games and I have to say Dante's Inferno is way better,
Both god of war games got boring before it was half way done and Dante's Inferno did not.

Also if you are wondering way I played god of war 2 when I didn't like the first one, it's because I thought it would have improved over the original, .. but it diddn't.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

First of all, a game cannot be part of the "beat em up" genre unless you BEAT PEOPLE in it. Devil May Cry BARELY qualifies (Beowulf and Ifrit), but God of War is pretty much out unless you count quick-action button stuff, and that makes up such a tiny portion of the game that if one were to judge a game a "beat em up" based on that feeble justification it would be possible to classify any game as being part of any genre simply because it is theoretically possible (however how difficult or rare) to partake of an action which is done in that genre. (In other words, any game where you can theoretically jump from one platform to another can be termed a "platformer")

Geldon's explanation makes sense in the context in which he explained it, ESPECIALLY after all these further pointless explanations. I don't see what's so difficult about this. Now, you can disagree with his opinion all you like, but it seems fair to me to take a checklist of similarities from a bunch of different games and say that they are part of their own sub-genre in the world of hacking and slashing (Urban Reign is a true beat em up, whereas DMC and GoW are more hack and slashers. Because that is what you DO in them for the majority of the game).

It seems to me you're hung up on a trivial point, shadow skill. Even if he HAD been using the word wrong (he wasn't), it doesn't nullify/eradicate his entire argument. He could just rephrase it and say, "there are points of commonality in the following games that I find very boring and repetitive, and I wish developers would change them." Bam. So IF he were wrong (he is not, at least not in word use. Opinions are opinions), it's no big for him to just fix it. What does it hurt his argument whether the games are part of the "genre" or not? Your job as a debater is to refute what he said, not how he said it.

On the other hand, your obnoxious hounding of this one point that I suspect most people understand perfectly fine has pulled your debating down a path which has not helped you sell your opinion one bit. Even if you wanted to say originally that it's annoying how gamers today are in such a hurry to classify and pigeonhole games that folks don't take the time to note differences or have fun with them anymore (a fair point), why get hung up on little stuff that doesn't matter? And as I've demonstrated, it doesn't matter at all whether he used "genre" or not. There are a multitude of words that would express the same sentiment, and he would be as correct in using them (probably) as he was in using that one.

 

[Amtracker1]

He sounds so angry in this one!

Bioshock 2 next!!!!!!

 

[PhiMed]

Sure, it's a knockoff of GoW et al, but you know, GoW was a rip-off of games I played 20 years ago. (Doom anyone? Okay, how about Diablo?) It was still kinda fun and it satisfied my "GOD, I hated Catholic school" twitches for a few hours.

Confused face.

Greek mythological acrobatic hack n' slasher vs. Demon's Gate fps?

The same vs. isometric Gauntlet update?

What do those things have in common other than gross-out graphics and a sense of vaguely heretical nonchalance towards violence?

As for the review, I was SHOCKED that he didn't mention the huge floppy dangling cock the developers decided to give Lucifer. Maybe they had to cut it out in order to get it past the Australian censorship nazis.

 

[beema]

The whole right hand joke is the best joke ive heard in my history of ZP

seconded

good review, although it seemed to have a fairly low level of energy/intensity. But what can you expect when you're reviewing a game that is just straight up unabashed ripoff.

 

[Blakray]

Good game for those who own a 360. (In other words, this is the closest experience to playing a GoWesque game.)However my only gripe would be the punish/absolve option.
What good is it if you can't change the outcome of your ending? Even Bioshock 2 and ME2 have alternate endings based on your choice to be evil or not.

 

[Declan Driver]

Some people are still wondering why the sides are so different and why would a game make 2 different trees equal. They arnt equal per say but the muderous blood orgy side favours melee attacks while the righteous fury curb stompin side favours ranged attacks. Other than that they are exactly the same. Dante's Inferno is just trying to cater for everybody's taste.

 

[ace_of_something]

This week, Zero Punctuation reviews Dante's Inferno.

I know Mr. Crowshaw will never read this but I have a very important question.
Why the heck does the imp around 2:37 have an afro?

 

[ace_of_something]

This week, Zero Punctuation reviews Dante's Inferno.

I know Mr. Crowshaw will never read this but I have a very important question.
Why the heck does the imp around 2:37 have an afro?

d'oh double post.

 

[FallenJellyDoughnut]

Here's my 2 cents.

Geldon was simply generalizing specific attributes of said games, because they have indeed become a staple of what is loosely defined as said genre. Or atleast, said elements play a heavy role in said titles (combos, chains, upgrading, etc.) Thus, said elements are becoming boring and said genre (or atleast, what the next-gen era has decided is the said genre based on these attributes) needs to step it up and integrate more into said genre, to make it seem less like other games in the same said genre.

Just because something is tried, tested, and proven, does not mean it will not eventually get boring and repetitive.

More elements mean more to do other than the tried and tested. Thus, he generalizes that said genre is getting boring because it refuses to integrate more than what already "works" and is "perfected". Perhaps the DMC comment was made because DMC popularized these elements, did come first when it comes to the generalized criteria, and now everyone who makes said genre game, usually follows rather the DMC or the GoW criteria without doing much else with it.

So why is it then, that even out of the most popular games they are all mechanically different from one another? Also where does Onimusha fall into this whole thing since it was popular for it's day and according to wikipedia is Capcom's fifth biggest franchise, released months before DMC. It also has a different director. DMC can't be the origin of anything. It's just the first game alot of people heard of. One is certainly free to have that opinion, one isn't free to base that opinion on their own facts.

I happen to think that shooters have this sort of problem in spades but I'm not going to say that all of these games are copying Halo because Halo did the whole thing first when games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark clearly predate it. Hell Halo wasn't even the first game to do online multiplayer on consoles, the SNES had a modem attachment (I'm talking about Xband specifically.) back in the mid to late 90's. When people claim that something is copying another thing so loosely, when the time comes to point out the real copies, the point being made gets covered up in this sort of silly stuff. DI isn't a GOW clone because it is in the same genre as perhaps hundreds of other games, it is a clone because whole animations that have no real business being lifted, have been.

It's like the whole mess with Nick Simmons' Incarnate, (Check the forums for threads on this.) there is a difference between emulating artists you like and tracing their panels while trying pass off your traces as original work.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!!!! LOOOOUUUD NOOOIISSEESS!!!

 

[Vohn_exel]

Hahah, this was great. Sounds like I was right about this game all along. Maybe I'll buy it when it's like 10 bucks. Also, I totally forgot to mention that he put in one of those "phonetic words" in blue and white. I love those

 

[Slipslop]

Mhh Donuts...

 

[inpachi]

Wow now thats a true dissapointment and insult! Its one thing to be called the "Like god of war,BUUUUT" But to just be a blatent rip off... Now thats a true insult.. Its true everything in god of war was done before it but god of war took all of the details that have been lingering in the back of gamers psyches like killing babies murdering your sister and made it into a game and a damn fun one at that! Tell me one game that not only did that but continued to entertain you throughout the entire thing? All of these GOW rip offs be it Demons soulz or Dantes Inferno are like the ugly nerd who is a 3 years late to the party and thinks there so cool cause they just figured out the inside joke of the cool people.. But in reality there just late and the whole BRUTALLY VIOLENT AWESOME SLAUGHTER type games just are dead now.. What i wanna see now is a "GOOD" and i mean "GOOD!!" RPG god its been FOREVER!!!!!!! Since i have seen one that doesnt wanna make me shoot myself.. I also wanna see a FPS or even a TPS that isnt so over hyped or so mediocre that it makes me want to puke! *LOOKS AT HALO/CALL OF DUTY/GEARS OF WAR/EVERY OTHER FPS/TPS TO COME OUT IN THE LAST 3 YEARS!!!*

 

[inpachi]

First of all, a game cannot be part of the "beat em up" genre unless you BEAT PEOPLE in it. Devil May Cry BARELY qualifies (Beowulf and Ifrit), but God of War is pretty much out unless you count quick-action button stuff, and that makes up such a tiny portion of the game that if one were to judge a game a "beat em up" based on that feeble justification it would be possible to classify any game as being part of any genre simply because it is theoretically possible (however how difficult or rare) to partake of an action which is done in that genre. (In other words, any game where you can theoretically jump from one platform to another can be termed a "platformer")

Geldon's explanation makes sense in the context in which he explained it, ESPECIALLY after all these further pointless explanations. I don't see what's so difficult about this. Now, you can disagree with his opinion all you like, but it seems fair to me to take a checklist of similarities from a bunch of different games and say that they are part of their own sub-genre in the world of hacking and slashing (Urban Reign is a true beat em up, whereas DMC and GoW are more hack and slashers. Because that is what you DO in them for the majority of the game).

It seems to me you're hung up on a trivial point, shadow skill. Even if he HAD been using the word wrong (he wasn't), it doesn't nullify/eradicate his entire argument. He could just rephrase it and say, "there are points of commonality in the following games that I find very boring and repetitive, and I wish developers would change them." Bam. So IF he were wrong (he is not, at least not in word use. Opinions are opinions), it's no big for him to just fix it. What does it hurt his argument whether the games are part of the "genre" or not? Your job as a debater is to refute what he said, not how he said it.

On the other hand, your obnoxious hounding of this one point that I suspect most people understand perfectly fine has pulled your debating down a path which has not helped you sell your opinion one bit. Even if you wanted to say originally that it's annoying how gamers today are in such a hurry to classify and pigeonhole games that folks don't take the time to note differences or have fun with them anymore (a fair point), why get hung up on little stuff that doesn't matter? And as I've demonstrated, it doesn't matter at all whether he used "genre" or not. There are a multitude of words that would express the same sentiment, and he would be as correct in using them (probably) as he was in using that one.

I know that the Snes had internet connection but if you remember correctly IT SUCKED BALLS!! Hell it was fucking dial up! That should say enough.. And i agree that Halo is not the first Goldeneye and Perfect Dark clearly predate it but there are also more games EVEN BEFORE THEM! I just use Halo during my arguments or when i am trying to get someone to see the light or even my point at the least.. Because Halo is the most resent shooter that has become so popular in which in my opinion is such a mediocre game it pains me to see it be so popular.. What has the young generation of gamers become? It seems we went from nerds To its what every kid did in the late 80s and 90s To a lifestyle To a competition of douchebags To a competition of 9 year olds and douche bags To a false sense of what it is to be a gamer.. To now where everyone is really nothing.. everyone is either just some kid who has been force fed advertisements for the latest pokemon or whatever rip off.. Or some 20 year old college douche bag who thinks hes the best gamer EVER! And insults you every time he wins.. Or loses.. ESPECIALLY LOSES! Or your just some casual gamer who doesnt give a shit and just buys puzzle games.. Dont get me wrong i have nothing against casual gamers.. But little kids who should shut the fuck up and 20 year old douchebags who dont do what games are intended for WHICH IS HAVING FUN! I just have no tolerance for.. But anyways back on my point i just use Halo as the example because its the most resent choice i have to go with and everyone knows what it is.. Its like talking about a walk man or a Lazer Disk to a kid now.. They just have no idea what it is..