Zero Punctuation: Demon's Souls

[Nomanslander]

I remember when Yahtzee reviewed Stalker: Clear Sky, and mentioned heavily on how hard that game was, plus buggy and somewhat broken.

What I'm wonder is why is it he seemed to have liked that game and not this one if the difficulty level was his major complaint?

 

[Axikal]

Axikal, you Sir, are a prat.
Satire, as you carefully copied from your dictionary, is the use of wit to 'deride vice, folly, etc'
To criticise aspects of a game in a way which is not true, which a lot of those criticisms are not, is not, in any way, satire. It is at best, idiocy.

Seriously, the 'oh it's meant to be funny' defense is simply not good enough. Regardless of whether or not it's intended for comic effect, ZP has an effect on how people perceive games, and I for one am getting sick of seeing some truly well-crafted, innovative games getting badmouthed for things they don't in fact do.

To reiterate a few points- dodging works fine, and is skill-based, ditto blocking. By watching the ghosts of other players and/or touching the bloodstains left when they die, you can see dangers coming. I avoided many nasty fates on the first go simply by seeing a bloodstain and watching the last moments of a predecessor. The message system works brilliantly and is an entirely new idea. Combat is based on skill and tactics, not mere pattern recognition. Whilst you can't pause the game, you can quit back to the title screen at any time and when you reload, you'll be at the last point where you gained Souls, picked up or dropped an item, gained or lost health, or a myriad of other things.

In almost three full playthroughs of the game I encountered a grand total of 0 bugs.

Seriously, DS is easily the best action-RPG I've ever played. It's genuine action, not the 'click mob till it's dead and occasionally press a button' style of Diablo or Titan Quest. It's genuinely satisfying to beat, allows you to approach situations in many different ways and even lets you pick what levels to play next and in what order.

Frankly, there are only two things you can take away from this review: Yes, DS is hard if you don't have the time or patience to learn to play it, and basing any decision on whether a game is worth playing on a ZP review is folly of the highest order.

I understand that ZP is more for fun than for information, but the problem is that it's just not presented that way. Yahtzee writes columns that purport to be informed commentary, and he rates games against each other- after all, if it's all just meant to be comedy game-baiting, why do some games get praised? It's at times like this that I feel ZP needs to decide which way to jump- either just try to be funny and slam everything for the most random reasons that'll raise a laugh, or use wit to raise serious points about what makes a game good or bad. I used to feel that the latter was the case, but the former is looking increasingly common.

I've noticed that he tends to blend the two together in some of his videos. But in the end, people seem to be taking what he says so close to heart, that they're missing the entire point of the series. Hell, if I were to react the way most of the commenters were, I'd flay Yahtzee alive for his Dead Space "review". But, again, I'm not daft enough to see the series as anything more than hyperbole, with traces of honesty. Again, look at the works of the Angry Video Game Nerd, and The Nostalgia Critic. Both review things they love and hate, and do so with excess. That's the brand of comedy they utilise to make their shows stand out.

There's nothing bull in that. It's simply their gimmick. And Yahtzee's is no different.

His articles are a little less satirical, and more in-line with who he really is, and how he really thinks. If more people read those, and stopped looking to Yahtzee for their next "review", maybe the collective intelligence of the community would sky-rocket. Then again, I might just be able to get through the Swamp 1-1 level without dying. Again... (total DS n00b ftl).

I still am not seeing how DS was bad-mouthed to the degree you guys are proclaiming. I found it to simply be a harmless stab at the game; and it honestly made me feel as if he did like the game, but felt like expounding on the sheer inanity of the game's difficulty curve. Hell, I won't fault you guys for feeling differently about it, but people need to stop taking ZP as seriously as they do. There are MANY gaming outlets that put out reviews of games; and anyone using ZP as their main source of information should be immediately tossed to a Storm Beast.

Without any arrows. Or spells. And no way to escape.

And just briefly going back over your comment, you do raise valid points. I do feel that sometimes he takes his shtick to a misguided level, but, I also find a bit of charm in it; and just shrug it off.

So if any of that makes me a prat, I'm down with that.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

And whenever an RPG that tries to copy the styles of American and European RPGs (by incorporating strong medieval themes and using a shit-load of european accents or by just simply NOT using turn-based combat and fucking ludicrous stories with characters who have absolutely no depth) is published by a Japanese company... it never goes over well (as far as I've seen).

Demon's Souls is considered an advancement in modern RPGs, and is highly sought after in all three regions. Going so far as to having people in the UK start petitions to bring the game to their demographic. What the hell are YOU smoking?

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/demonssoul/review.html
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/demons-souls-review
http://www.gamecritics.com/brad-gallaway/demons-souls-review

et al.

In summary: You're an idiot.

look, people are fucking idiots, Fable 2 got GREAT reviews AND it sold millions of copies, but what makes it any worse than Dragon Age: Origins or this game? KOTOR was also geat, as was Borderlands and Dragon Age: Origins and Dead Rising (not so much, because it had the crappy shooting mechanics and the worst aiming and hit detection system of ANY game i've ever played which is because it was developed by capcom, which doesn't know good hit detection and aiming from a cheeseburger) was hell of fun, and it's obvious from this review by ZP and from all the gameplay that i've seen and played that it has the stench of japanese gameplay (not an insult to the japanese, but to many, not all, of their videogame mechanics). what i mean by this is that the game has terrible and awkward controls, and it has a broken save system that is unfriendly to anyone but the most hardcore of the hardcore. Obviously Yahtzee hated the same things, and I'd be fine with this game if it fucking worked.

 

[Axikal]

Just because he funny somehow makes what he's saying less worthwhile, less worth analyzing? If there is a problem with the review/comedy sketch it is just as much of a problem whether it is satire or not. The "its satire" argument is a complete cop-out whether you agree or you disagree with Yahtzee.

It is a total copout for mailing it in. He's made more insightful reviews of terrible games such as Fable and a great game comes out which I was expecting for him to eviscerate and he doesnt even bother to play it. If he wants to not be a critic he should stop calling himself one.

I'll simply point you to his Wolfenstein "review".

 

[blankedboy]

How the HELL have you people already watched it?

They haven't. They're trolls.

But the review was good, that makes one thing.

 

[Axikal]

I'd be fine with this game if it fucking worked.

No. The game works fine. You just suck at it.

 

[rdrouyn]

Just because he funny somehow makes what he's saying less worthwhile, less worth analyzing? If there is a problem with the review/comedy sketch it is just as much of a problem whether it is satire or not. The "its satire" argument is a complete cop-out whether you agree or you disagree with Yahtzee.

It is a total copout for mailing it in. He's made more insightful reviews of terrible games such as Fable and a great game comes out which I was expecting for him to eviscerate and he doesnt even bother to play it. If he wants to not be a critic he should stop calling himself one.

I'll simply point you to his Wolfenstein "review".

Yeah, I guess I was one of the many that didn't play Wolfenstein. Most of the games that I've played that he has reviewed have been spot on, notably Prototype, Valkyria Chronicles, RE4 and Uncharted.

 

[axleblaze]

Are you just trolling now? The video was nothing but him pointing out the difficulty in an annoyed manner which seems to be complaining to me.

I'm certainly not here to troll. I've better things to do than that. Like troll the IWF

I would have to disagree. After watching the video (a THIRD time), I still can safely say that he comes across as cheeky, rather than dis-satisfied. I will say that I do feel the final comment (the metaphor about the wall) seems very put-off-ey, but all-in-all he simply pointed out the various "newb-traps" from the first level. And really, I was expecting nothing less than that from this video.

Yes, there are other MP elements, like the Black/Blue Souls, but again, Yahtzee's not one for those things. I know, because I also like to read his articles, where he's a little less "bashy", and a little more in-depth. To be fair, I don't think it's fair to criticise him for not playing MORE of DS, considering he only has a week or so to put out a new review.

As someone who has done video editing and recording, what he has to do is time-consuming; and to expect him to play all the way through this game is absolutely ludicrous. With shorter games, like Dead Space (Impossible difficulty is beatable in under 6 hours), it's understandable that he'd be able to play all the way through. But DS requires a LOT of time, and he most certaintly doesn't have that in terms of ZP posts.

Sorry for calling you a troll
Anyways, I think that while he does simply state alot of newb traps he does so in a highly derisive tone indicating that he thinks they're all unreasonable and bad.
But I think it is fair to complain that he didn't play it more. I don't mind that he didn't beat it. What I do mind is it seems he played it for an hour or two TOPs. It's clear he never got out of the first area. I'm pretty sure he didn't fo back to the Nexus after he beat Phallanx in fact which means he never even got exposed to the four other areas, the multiplayer or even leveling up his character. He simply barely played the game at all and then presented a review of it. No matter how satirical the review is, he still didn't play it enough to represent it accurately or fairly which is his fucking job. If your getting paid to play a game you should beat or put about 20 hours in, whichever comes first. "I don't like this game so fuck it" is not acceptable when your being paid to play it.

 

[zondervan]

If your getting paid to play a game you should beat or put about 20 hours in, whichever comes first. "I don't like this game so fuck it" is not acceptable when your being paid to play it.

Could not have said it better myself.

 

[axleblaze]

And whenever an RPG that tries to copy the styles of American and European RPGs (by incorporating strong medieval themes and using a shit-load of european accents or by just simply NOT using turn-based combat and fucking ludicrous stories with characters who have absolutely no depth) is published by a Japanese company... it never goes over well (as far as I've seen).

Demon's Souls is considered an advancement in modern RPGs, and is highly sought after in all three regions. Going so far as to having people in the UK start petitions to bring the game to their demographic. What the hell are YOU smoking?

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/demonssoul/review.html
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/demons-souls-review
http://www.gamecritics.com/brad-gallaway/demons-souls-review

et al.

In summary: You're an idiot.

look, people are fucking idiots, Fable 2 got GREAT reviews AND it sold millions of copies, but what makes it any worse than Dragon Age: Origins or this game? KOTOR was also geat, as was Borderlands and Dragon Age: Origins and Dead Rising (not so much, because it had the crappy shooting mechanics and the worst aiming and hit detection system of ANY game i've ever played which is because it was developed by capcom, which doesn't know good hit detection and aiming from a cheeseburger) was hell of fun, and it's obvious from this review by ZP and from all the gameplay that i've seen and played that it has the stench of japanese gameplay (not an insult to the japanese, but to many, not all, of their videogame mechanics). what i mean by this is that the game has terrible and awkward controls, and it has a broken save system that is unfriendly to anyone but the most hardcore of the hardcore. Obviously Yahtzee hated the same things, and I'd be fine with this game if it fucking worked.

No. your wrong. The controls are great. Have a nice day
PS: japenese games have broken controls? Ninja Gaiden? DMC? Zelda? Mario? Really some of the best controlling games ever have been japanese!

 

[Lord_Seth]

Whilst you can't pause the game, you can quit back to the title screen at any time and when you reload, you'll be at the last point where you gained Souls, picked up or dropped an item, gained or lost health, or a myriad of other things.

While you may have made some legitimate points in the rest of your message, I'm sorry, but being unable to pause a game somehow is quite frankly inexcusable.

 

[Axikal]

Yeah, I guess I was one of the many that didn't play Wolfenstein. Most of the games that I've played that he has reviewed have been spot on, notably Prototype, Valkyria Chronicles, RE4 and Uncharted.

Like I said: "He tends to use hyperbole with traces of honesty". But what I was trying to point out about his Wolf "review" was that he doesn't always stick to covering everything about the game. Sometimes he just chooses to take a more entertaining route; and make a fluff work. And honestly, I think it works when he does it. The Wolf video was done in limerick form; which is inarguably different from every other video he's done.

I also have to reiterate his time constraints to:

1: Play the game sufficiently as possible
2: Write a script
3: Record the script
4: Create the images/animations
5: Edit the video
6: Render the video

Trust me. It's not bloody easy to do. I tried incorporating a video supplement to a review I wrote up for the new Ratchet & Clank game, and opted out of it due to excessive time constraints. Granted, I feel there's a little missing from his last couple of videos, but I'm empathetic because I understand what he's got to struggle with to put these videos out for the site. Moreso because he gets PAID to do it; whereas I just do it as a hobby.

 

[axleblaze]

Whilst you can't pause the game, you can quit back to the title screen at any time and when you reload, you'll be at the last point where you gained Souls, picked up or dropped an item, gained or lost health, or a myriad of other things.

While you may have made some legitimate points in the rest of your message, I'm sorry, but being unable to pause a game somehow is quite frankly inexcusable.

I said it before and I'll say it again, you can't pause most online games.

 

[Nomanslander]

I've noticed that he tends to blend the two together in some of his videos. But in the end, people seem to be taking what he says so close to heart, that they're missing the entire point of the series.

That's because Yahtzee reviews are all about reviewing a game based on personal taste and opinions unlike other game reviews.

And in doing so, gamers reactions are met with in the same personal level.

You have to take these videos with a grain of salt because in the end these reviews are biased and Yahtzee has openly said that in the past.

But to be honest, the reason I watch these videos is because they are biased, most game reviews go out of their way to sound as unbiased as possible leaving you with a generic opinion about the game basing everything on a mathematical score that's just about as boring and impressionless as math in itself.

I like hearing Yahtzee's own opinions on the game and how they differ from mine, and the last thing I should be doing is taking these videos personally over whose opinion better...mine or his. Everyone is going to have their own unique impressions on a game and there for comparing one persons opinion with another is just stupid.

And that's what most viewers generally do when they hear a game they love get torn apart in his reviews.

 

[Axikal]

Anyways, I think that while he does simply state alot of newb traps he does so in a highly derisive tone indicating that he thinks they're all unreasonable and bad.

I'll simply have to agree to disagree. Where you heard derision, I simply heard "cheek". I thought he was just being coy about things. I'll just chalk up our differing views to perception. There's no way to infallibly prove what he meant, without him specifically stating so himself.

But I think it is fair to complain that he didn't play it more. I don't mind that he didn't beat it. What I do mind is it seems he played it for an hour or two TOPs. It's clear he never got out of the first area. I'm pretty sure he didn't fo back to the Nexus after he beat Phallanx in fact which means he never even got exposed to the four other areas, the multiplayer or even leveling up his character. He simply barely played the game at all and then presented a review of it. No matter how satirical the review is, he still didn't play it enough to represent it accurately or fairly which is his fucking job. If your getting paid to play a game you should beat or put about 20 hours in, whichever comes first. "I don't like this game so fuck it" is not acceptable when your being paid to play it.

A very fair point. I would have to agree that it does feel a little like he didn't play it far beyond 1-2, but I really wasn't here for something beyond a rip on the difficulty curve. Which is why it satisfied me. I figured he'd parrot my exact problems with the difficulty (not that -I'M- complaining! ), but in a fashion that was comical, cynical, and ripe with British idioms. I'm a sucker for them, guilty.

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

Sussex isn't cowpat central, it's a beautiful county. It has beaches, culture and rolling hills full of animals... oh. Yeah, I guess it is then. Actually, one of my earliest memories is of my best friend face planting into a cow turd. I felt so sorry for her. I mean, obviously I didn't give her a hug or go within a 2 meter radius of her for the rest of the day, but my heart was with her.
But yeah, I've a friend who was chatting about this game. Sounds kind of pointless. I mean, it doesn't sound like it goes anywhere.

 

[Axikal]

That's because Yahtzee reviews are all about reviewing a game based on personal taste and opinions unlike other game reviews.

And in doing so, gamers reactions are met with in same personal level.

You have to take these videos with a grain of salt because in the end these reviews are biased and Yahtzee has openly said that in the past.

But to be honest, the reason I watch these videos is because they are biased, most game reviews go out of their way to sound as on biased as possible leaving you with a generic opinion about the game.

I like hearing Yahtzee's own opinions on the game and how they differ from mine, and the last thing I should be doing is taking these videos personally over whose personal taste is better...mine or his.

And that's what most viewers generally think about when they hear a game they love get torn apart in his reviews.

You know, in lieu of ever re-stating my point, I'll simply re-quote this. Thank you.

 

[Joe Matsuda]

i it really his fault if people dont buy it cause he doesnt like it?

didn't he also say that people shouldn't let others tell them what to buy and what not to buy?

its just a funny review, yah haters...and flamers...and other "-ers"

 

[Azaraxzealot]

I'd be fine with this game if it fucking worked.

No. The game works fine. You just suck at it.

if i can't enjoy a game after 6 hours, i think i have a right to say it sucks, i spent 11 hours (willingly, because exploration is why i play RPGs) just getting past Peragus and Telos in KOTOR 2, but spending 6 hours having to be more strategic than Ender in the final battle against the Formics doesn't make a game fun, it makes it a chore that makes me want to chew my hand up

 

[Axikal]

While you may have made some legitimate points in the rest of your message, I'm sorry, but being unable to pause a game somehow is quite frankly inexcusable.

Show me ONE online game that you can pause. And what's the point of needing a pause? The game's not a "pick-up-n-play" title. So putting in a Pause function would break the flow of the game; and detract from the experience.