Zero Punctuation: Demon's Souls

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yzzlthtz

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Undeadpool said:
Mmm, can't wait to read all the "hardcore" gamers call Yahtzee a poofter for not liking this game.
Haha.....poofter.
I love that word.
He said nothing about liking it one way or the other...
he just admitted in the video that he gave up before either leveling up or reaching a 2nd boss or really playing very much of the game at all and for that reason it is perfectly valid to call him a poofter.
 

yzzlthtz

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Belladonnah said:
BlueInkAlchemist said:
Seems like Yahtzee has yet another reason to ignore people that e-mail him.

Sounds like this game hearkens back to the days when games were Nintendo hard but without the appeal of nostalgia or anything resembling innovation. "An RPG with a Western feel? We haven't had one of those in ages! A dragon's age to be exact! ...Wait..."
Demon's souls was out way before dragon's age. It's also alot better than DA.
They're extremely different games.
But I agree with you. DS is more fun, immersing, and innovative.
Dragon Age is nice though - I've been putting off playing Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights until a more advanced version came out, and DA: O is it. It's pretty enriching to play.
 

MBGeek

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And the sad thing is that it doesn't sound like he played into the REALLY annoying dungeons...where your light doesn't illuminate more then 12 inches around you and if you then accidently fall off of a ledge (that you couldn't see suddenly ended because of the aforementioned lack of light) you start the whole f-ing level over. I personally died twice as many times falling off of ledges as I did in combat. That's why I prefer to call the game 'artificially hard'...it's not skill that's holding you back, it's the cheap deaths and then redoing the long levels all over again that makes it "hard". I've read reviews stating that 'when you die it's only because it's your fault' and to those reviews I say B*llSh*T

A shame too as the game itself is quite good otherwise and I liked the combat difficulty (which I did not find overly hard, just challenging) but replaying levels over and over again because of a misstep is not my idea of fun
 

Wingmna

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Quite a bad review, like others have mentioned you don't understand the game at all and TBH it hasn't seemed that hard... rather it requires patience. Quite busy atm myself so haven't gotten around finishing the game.

Nor did you even begin to touch upon the other multiplayer features.

Sorry Y-man, this is the last time you see me... Don't want to continue to promote (give hits to) The Escapist either, they make bad articles and generally are biased.
 

Ghostleader

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This game allowed me to dredge up childhood memories of being seven and trying to beat the eighth world of Mario on my handheld...because, thats what it reminds me of, one big 3D Mario game.

I enjoyed it though.
 

skull_blader

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Love these reviews I just started watching them a few days ago and I am now hard pressed to find anything more hilarious and cynical on the internet that will make me laugh harder than than two skinless baboons humping each other while spouting dead baby jokes.... wait thats not funny at all.Mhm.

Anyways you get my point.

And also am I the only one who would love to see Yahtzee and Adam Sessler in the same room talking about games? (what else?) Both love games (at least I think Yahtzee does) and to see their different view points on games (Unchated 2 for example) would be the internet highlight of my week. I can dream.

ps. Sorry if this idea has been spouted off a billion times (if not disregard this then) cuz I'm new and if name-calling must be done them please be gentle.
 

Helba1984

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Wingmna said:
Quite a bad review, like others have mentioned you don't understand the game at all and TBH it hasn't seemed that hard... rather it requires patience. Quite busy atm myself so haven't gotten around finishing the game.

Nor did you even begin to touch upon the other multiplayer features.

Sorry Y-man, this is the last time you see me... Don't want to continue to promote (give hits to) The Escapist either, they make bad articles and generally are biased.
I authored a point-by-point rebuttal of his review's claims above.
 

yzzlthtz

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Helba1984 said:
1a: "No saving until a boss is beaten"

Not true. Above-mentioned unlocked shortcuts STAY even if you quit the game, go somewhere else, or die.

2: "Dodging doesn't do shit"

Dodging works, but it's not a quicktime event. You have to keep dodging or blocking, and the skeleton scenario you described counts as TWO attacks, so you have to respond to both by either blocking, countering, or dodge/rolling. You can't just sit there like a twat and bask in the glory of your dodge. BTW - what he did to you is called a Riposte.

3: "Dragon came out of nowhere"

Sure, it's seem that way if you ran out onto the rampart like a football player chasing teenage skirts, but if you'd explored the castle gatehouse you'd have SEEN that dragon and realized the entire level is one big area, and HE FLIES BEHIND THE GATEHOUSE.

4: "Notes left by other players are worthless"

Again, you didn't play long enough to see this (clearly), but bad comments don't last more than a day. If messages aren't promoted, they're deleted during a server cycle (about once a day).

5: "Only way to get HP back is to defeat a major Demon"

Again you didn't seem to play enough to find this out, but you can also get your life back by helping another player (Via blue-eye stone), killing another player (via red-eye stone), or having a message that is promoted by a certain number of other players as being helpful.

6: "Difficulty.DemonsSouls = Concrete.obj + forehead.obj"
allow me to develop some of these a bit

1 the game actually saves constantly. Nothing can be undone except by force quitting right as you die which might corrupt your save file (but usually doesn't apparently since people do it a lot)

2 The real purpose of the backstep, in my experience, is to perform a special attack normally achievable only by rushing (running). The roll maneuver (circle+direction) is extremely effective as a dodge and can be done repeatedly (until you run out of endurance)

3 Here's the thing that most reviewers of this game fail to mention : Sound in this game is not only totally sweet, but extremely helpful, ie: YOU CAN HEAR THE DRAGON COMING. You can, in fact, hear every single fucking "surprise you're dead" attack well before it lands. If you actually pay attention to your entertainment system and not the pornography plastered to your wall or the bad indy pop on your stereo, then you'd probably stand a better chance in Demon's Souls.

4 I relied on messages often on my first play-through, especially in 2-2, which has a shortcut that is impossible to survive on your first go through if not for the messages.

5 It's black eye stones for invading, red eye stones for dueling. There is also the stones of ephemeral eyes, which will just GIVE you your life back! And there's one sitting in the Nexus, of all places!

6 Yeah, Yahtzee implied with the head against the wall bit that the game is repetitive and boring to play, which it isn't. The game-play itself is extremely deep, faceted, and rewarding, making repetition a delight.


A lot of people who haven't actually played say things like "Oh it seems like Mega man....(fill in pointless observation here)"

Have you seen videos of the game? DOES IT FUCKING LOOK LIKE MEGA MAN!?!?!
 

yzzlthtz

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MilkyFresh said:
I watched this and then checked out the IGN review on youtube.... It was looking interesting up until the bit where i found out the enemies get HARDER the more you die. So fucking stupid.
They don't necessarily get harder, actually, unless you are dying in body form, which is impossible to do on the 1st level anyways. Reviewers get this wrong all the time.

The changes to the world when you die in body form don't take effect until you leave the level for the Nexus. So the difficulty won't actually increase unless you have died in body form at least once and you have left the level and returned.

Also, more difficult foes give you greater rewards, meaning more souls for leveling, better item drops....
 

yzzlthtz

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Le_Pecheur22 said:
crystalsnow said:
Le_Pecheur22 said:
That's not right, you get your max healthbar back by beating a level. That and using a stone of ephemeral eyes. That's it for single player.

However, if you die and use a stone of ephemeral eyes, the world gets darker tendency which makes it harder. Also, when you die, you lose all your souls at the spot you died, and everything respawns. You have to get to that spot to get your souls back. If you don't, you lose your souls for good. Also, on your first playthrough you're almost guaranteed to die on almost every level at least once.
You sure? I could have sworn that you can get your health bar back before beating the boss.

Oh well, I haven't played the game myself so I don't really know.
The only other way in single player is to use a stone of ephemeral eyes. You can also get it back through multiplayer, but being a black phantom is a retarded crap shoot of whether the lag kills you instead of the player, along with being at every disadvantage possible in the game besides having the demons on your side. Being a blue phantom. The survival rate, I've found, for blue phantoms through the boss fight is about 1/1000000000000. Literally, I rarely get to the point where I can even rate other players because they die so effing quick, and the same happens for me when I've tried to be a blue phantom also.
I win about 60% of my invasions (retarded crap shoot?), depending on what character i play. 80% with one, 40% with another. Lag is sometimes an issue, but more often than not the connection is good and the fight is fair.

I usually survive a stint as a blue phantom. It's really fun too. As far as blues dying, yeah, it happens. But blue phantoms also get risk-free experience points, and, if they're novice players, insight into the level. Blues are there to die, anyways, in order to save you, the host, from dying, since there is absolutely no penalty for dying as a blue phantom.

Blue phantoms and being a blue phantom were crucial elements for me in my first-play through.
 

Azaraxzealot

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yzzlthtz said:
Azaraxzealot said:
w/e i can flame about how badly i hated this game all i want, because when i played it, i found the experience frustrating, pointless, and unenjoyable. it's only internet reputation anyways.
Too bad.
That's all you really had to say, though. No need to make supporting arguments just: "I played it and it made me sad."
Cause trust me: We Demon's Souls fans are relentless and pitiless.
well, then i can agree to (strongly) disagree with all of you, no matter how shitty i feel this game is, because I can't change anyone's opinion, but neither can you change mine, I will always hate 80% of what comes out of japanese publishers, so just ignore and don't respond to my statements (should be easy for everyone) when i make my strongly biased accusations and you make yours, then i won't stir up shit because both of us will always think we're right anyways. that's the fucking internet, and i always knew that, i just wanted to see how many fanboys i could piss off by throwing my (strong) opinion out there.
 

LockeDown

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As someone who beat the game, I can safely say that while the game is not as brutally difficult as it was made out to be (though some bosses, like False King Allant, are just infinitely irksome), it's definitely designed to be rather unfriendly to new players. This game truly throws the standard tendencies of most normal gamers in an RPG setting out the window. Usually, if you want to "brute-force" through an RPG, you simply roll a warrior, pick up the biggest pointy stick you can find, and hold down the swing button until you've cleared everything from the first measly grunt to the final boss. Sure there's the occasional nuanced fight where you might actually have to dodge an attack, but those fights are usually fairly forgiving, what with your "hold down forward + attack" strategy being temporarily thrown out the proverbial window and all.

Demon's Souls doesn't apologize for the fact that you can't "re-re-run" through the bulk of its content, and it punishes you for trying. Dying while alive (read: not in Soul Form), reduces the "tendency" of your world, and the enemies get stronger each time it happens. Checkpoints are non-existent because a lack of checkpoints is a proven, legitimate way to add difficulty to a game (see IWBTG). Dodging properly (read: not pressing circle just the one time as a get-out-of-danger-free button) becomes something you have to learn, and the game encourages you to treat its denizens as a real threat; even the lowly, psychotic, half-naked tribal fool with a broken sword.

The game provides a very stark, lonely atmosphere, and maintains it very well because of its limited multi-player capabilities (blue phantoms are hit-or-miss, and black phantoms are the bane of my existence), and while some of the player notes are rather useless, many of the ones I've found provided information I would not have had otherwise (thank you to whoever pointed out that those big red grubs were more dangerous than they seemed). The game encourages you to be more realistic in your approach to combat, forcing you to be cautious or selective about your targets (with the exception of those rare character setups that allow for utter domination with a few memorized sequences) lest you wind up some lesser beastie's evening snack.

I can understand Yahtzee's beef with the game, partially because (and this is key, folks) it's his job to find things to gripe about, and because, as mentioned earlier, the game is rather callous toward the uninitiated player. Dodging takes awhile to get the hang of, the game's not very kind about giving you "practice time" for your abilities, and some of the bosses have inventively cruel ways of punishing you for reacting the wrong way to a flashing-light-attack you're seeing for the first time (Curse you, Allant!!!). However, if you're tired of the over-the-shoulder dungeon crawler that rewards you for duct-taping your attack button down and your joystick forward while you run off to snag a piece of pie (or tail, whatever you prefer), then I'd recommend giving this thing a look. Maybe not a purchase, but at the very least, a rental.
 

Lord Doom

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Demon's Souls isn't that hard. Yahtzee most likely went in thinking it was like Ninja Gaiden. You need to plan your attacks. Also, Yahtzee, How the hell did you get killed by the first boss? A kid could beat him. Also, you weren't online. Those messages you read were put in by the developers for people on their first play through. After you beat the first boss, you are really playing online. Play the game some more. Try summoning Blue Phantoms to help you. I fully see you are not capable of beating this game and I say this for one reason. World 5-2. Those who have played this game know the horrors of that place. What he experienced in 1-1 is what we experience in 5-2. His trouble with 1-1 will make 5-2 impossible for him. P.S. Still funny review as always.
 

Roadclimber

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Am i the only one who played this game who picked up on the fact that Yahtzee never figured out how to use online support? If you're having a brutally hard time at running through a level then you can bring in 2 other players in ghost form to back you up.

Of course you have to be in body form to use them so... that might be the problem. Then there's the joy of having a Black phantom (other player) jump into your level and try to kill you... All the more satisfying if you have a team with you and you tear him to shreds.

Yahtzee also had the choice of 4 other worlds to jump into at that point so if he was having a hard time getting to the Tower Knight... he should've gone exploring elsewhere.

Demon's Souls reminds me of the Monster Hunter franchise in that you CAN play solo but it's not easy. I managed to run a wizard through the game and only needed to be backed up for the final fight against Allant.
 

Verrenxnon

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Axikal said:
Lord_Seth said:
Verrenxnon said:
The 'supposed to lose fight' is an arbitrary, lackluster trope in the context of a videogame; removing choice from a medium defined by it reduces the medium.
I'm going to disagree with that; I actually like hopeless boss fights, as long as they're pulled off right. The purpose of a hopeless boss fight is to either show you how impotent you are or how strong the enemy is, or both. For example, Bowser wiping the floor with you at the start of Paper Mario demonstrates that thanks to the Star Rod, he is too strong for you to defeat until you rescue the Star Spirits. Saturos and Menardi destroying you in Golden Sun serves to show that you're a wimp at that time and sets them up as the most powerful villains of the game. These could be rendered in cut scenes, but it drills home the point better if it's in an actual battle.

Of course, like with many things in video games, it depends on how it's carried off. A good hopeless boss fight makes you want to keep going so that you will eventually be able to actually beat the boss in a rematch later. A bad one just comes across as contrived and annoying.
Hear hear. Though, I have to say that for the most part, I just stick to arrows and distance to remove the more obnoxious enemies (Mind Flayers!). Demon's Souls has simply taught me to learn more "indirect" approaches to battles. And my first two fights with invading players? Holy crap. I was about to crap myself when I saw the giant titling appear: "A Black Phantom Has Invaded Your World". Truly a terrifying experience. Very gratifying when I won, too. That's the mark of a damn good game. That feeling of satisfaction.
Axikal: I'm lucky enough to have played Paper Mario and Golden Sun to have seen and remembered these 'supposed to die' battles. Paper Mario worked, I felt, because I didn't have the time to build up and thus care about my character. Golden Sun was ok, but I would've prefered Final Fantasy VII's approach of finishing me in a cutscene. Why make me fight something I can't win? It's unnecessary programming and arbitrarily game-lengthening.

While 'supposed to die' battles drills into me my dire situation, I feel like a cutscene is more fair to the player. A 'supposed to die' fight works, but it renders the players' work fruitless. I'd much rather see a cutscene where my epic character falters. There'd be no excuse; I wasn't controling them. The 'supposed to die' fights that really ruffle my feathers are when your opponent summons hitherto unknown powers and wastes you. Final Fantasy IX's fight with Belatrix is a perfect example.

Lord Seth: A gratifying victory against a seemingly impossible foe? Excellent. The sensation of APPARENT impending doom spiced up the fight and rendered it satisfying. What if a game did that to your wonderful character; made your opponent seem just on the cusp of surmountability when they abruptly pulled the plug and mopped the floor with your face? Is it worth all the excitement and suspense if it's ultimately worthless?
 

Kanlic

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Azaraxzealot said:
man, console exclusives always get more praise than they deserve... Halo was good, but not amazing, and Uncharted 2 was okay, but not superb, and this game is just not half as good as RPGs that have come before. I say Japanese-made RPGs have a long way to catch up as Pokemon has already set the bar so high that they may never achieve it (i think that may be the nostalgia talking though). Fun is ultimately what games were meant to be, and so far, Japan's game industries have made (more than 80%) games that i find more hand-gnawingly insane than fun or even playable.
I'm sorry if I come off as a jerk, but the Pokemon series was a bland and boring experience that demanded that the player had to grind their ass off. I don't appreciate it when games force you to battle through endless amounts of generic battles rather than setting up the game so that someone who isn't spending three hours searching bushes is punished for not doing so, and I didn't appreciate it when I was a youngin' taking the fad with full on pride.

I understand that the point of Pokemon is collecting as many cute animals and badges you can, but if that is what set the bar, then you can thank the franchise for all the mindless hording of random nonsense that permeates games today, such as the flags in Assassin's creed.

on another note, the cute facade of the Pokemon was just a cover for something truly evil, the corporate rape for money. Am I the only one that thinks that paying full price for a game for half its content is bullshit? The games always came out in pairs, each containing half of the full monster roster, but that's it. The areas were the same, events remained the same, encounters remained the same, all except the fricken monsters. I personally never gave in to that ridiculousness, but its mind-boggling that a majority of other people have. Pokemon's only contribution to gaming as a whole is that it introduced it to a wide audience, but tagged along with that would be the market's decline into squeezing every last penny from the consumers until their bank account is in the red.

aside from that, I agree with you on your opinion's of the games you mentioned, but not on your view's of console specific games as a whole. Aside from multi-platform games, console specific games are what really differentiate the consoles. I agree that Halo is praised for more than its worth and that Uncharted is also, but those are the games that people are looking at when considering to buy a console, not the Modern Warfare's of the world, because that's like potential assholes, available everywhere. Games should, and usually are, judged by their merit, even if there is a little ignorance sprinkled in the assessment. So yes Halo was a mediocre game that was inflated because of its social popularity as is Uncharted's tendency to look really pretty, but they are both competent games, something that im finding very taxing when on the search for my next gaming endeavor.

Dead Rising was awesome for the Xbox as was Demon's Souls was for the playstaion, and the games that find themselves in between such as Brutal Legend are just dandy as well.
 

Verrenxnon

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rdrouyn said:
yzzlthtz said:
Verrenxnon said:
The 'supposed to lose fight' is an arbitrary, lackluster trope in the context of a videogame; removing choice from a medium defined by it reduces the medium.
It is? I can think of so may things that might be "arbitrary lackluster tropes," but "have to lose fights" as part of a tutorial, especially a fight that is actually possible to win, doesn't come to mind. Even if it is as you say, Demon's Souls does it pretty damn well.

Everyone on here who is criticizing demon's souls without actually playing it: why do you waste your life blubbering on pretending to know everything about video games? We all like what we like.

Demon's Souls is a good game. I've spent over 100 hours playing, have beat it like 8 times, have killed almost 200 invaders, and have had a damn fun time with it.

So then all these kids come around to stand behind Yahtzee's sarcastic bantering to throw rocks at the monumental achievement that is Demon's Souls and it looks just like you'd expect to anyone who has actually delved into it : children boasting about throwing rocks at a mountain.
Yeah I love how all the tools come out of the shed to gang up on a game they never played just because Yahtzee didn't like it enough to play it more than an hour. I guess these people never play a JRPG or a Mario game because daddy Yahtzee doesn't let them. Its sad to not have any taste of your own.
Note, kind people, that I've never directly attacked Demon's Souls in my theorizing. I'm attacking the 'supposed to die' cliche'. While I can't speak to it being in the game or not, I suggest that the trope is flimsey like the overused slow-motion effect.

Having not played the game, I have no particular feelings about it. It looks cool enough, and I'm sure if I had a PS3, I'd certainly give it a go. I'm glad you all had fun playing it, but my argument is past Demon's Souls; it concerns a select game tendency used within the game. If you find that incendiary, that's your concern. I'd argue that we need to be more objective about our gaming experiences and less "Oh! Shiny!" than most praise posts tend to be.