Zero Punctuation: Demon's Souls

[Verrenxnon]

The 'supposed to lose fight' is an arbitrary, lackluster trope in the context of a videogame; removing choice from a medium defined by it reduces the medium.

It is not arbitrary in this case. The boss fight is still part of the tutorial, and getting yourself killed by the Vanguard lets the game address both what happens when you die and the Nexus/what it has to offer you. If anything, it is actually a rather novel way of presenting a tutorial.quote]

This is a well-reasoned argument which I feel stands on its own two feet. Thank you.

Admittedly, I hate the 'supposed to die' mechanic so much that I'd rather see another way for the game to express the same information.

I don't like being cast into a battle I cannot win; it's a waste of my time.

 

[Helba1984]

[...]Though, I totally agree with the ''Demon's Souls'' part about the 's. In fact, I made a rant about this a few days ago. So I am just calling it Demon Souls from now on.

Loved the rest of your comments However the name is appropriate because the big demon is collecting souls, the boss demons are doing the same, and the title references the Demon's Souls (which you are trying to steal, collect and trade for better items and equipment! [and ostensibly to increase enough in power to take the Old One behind the shed]) - sooooo correct context

 

[Sven und EIN HUND]

Another entertaining review

 

[WaderiAAA]

Awesome review. I prefer games that are hard in a challenging way, not hard in a way as though it has been made by the devil of gaming.

I thought he would be doing Silent Hill Homecoming this week. Perhaps next week. Or perhaps he don't want to make another whiny "not as good as it used to be" review.

 

[Spider Expert]

Best ZP in awhile

 

[WaderiAAA]

1. The first kind you mean? I think Yatzee would disagree. Whatever, I don't plan to get it anyways.

2. Yes, I am

 

[Firia]

A dodge move that can't dodge shit, wow what a truly awrsome game Demon Ssssoul is.

By the sounds of things, Yahtzee was playing a rather armored fellow; big and brawny types in the game start off with heavy armor. I don't think he noticed (by the sounds of it) that weight of his equipment had an effect on mobility. The rouges and mages of the game that have little to no armor can hop back considerablly far, roll great distances (well... respectable I suppose). Whereas that knight in full plate? He's got a few hundred pounds of steel weighing him down, and the game reflects that.

Odd title aside, Demons Souls is a solid game. Clearly not for the timid. Esspecially the timid that have an internet weekly video.

 

[Firia]

Awesome review. I prefer games that are hard in a challenging way, not hard in a way as though it has been made by the devil of gaming.

I thought he would be doing Silent Hill Homecoming this week. Perhaps next week. Or perhaps he don't want to make another whiny "not as good as it used to be" review.

A dodge move that can't dodge shit, wow what a truly awrsome game Demon Ssssoul is.

By the sounds of things, Yahtzee was playing a rather armored fellow; big and brawny types in the game start off with heavy armor. I don't think he noticed (by the sounds of it) that weight of his equipment had an effect on mobility. The rouges and mages of the game that have little to no armor can hop back considerablly far, roll great distances (well... respectable I suppose). Whereas that knight in full plate? He's got a few hundred pounds of steel weighing him down, and the game reflects that.

Odd title aside, Demons Souls is a solid game. Clearly not for the timid. Esspecially the timid that have an internet weekly video.

Here's the thing; the game is challenging, and not at all impossible. In all the instances where Yahtzee said he died, there was a way to see that it was coming. The dragons breath? There's a PILE of charred bodies on the bridge that you're supposed to bolt across! When I got to that point, I saw the bodies, and knew something was afoot. I looked around, and saw a red dragon flying around aimlessly in the distance. I started to cross, and cought his attention. When I saw his flight path take him on course with where I was going, I retreated, and waited for the dragon to pass before darting to safety.

Yatzee also mentioned the psuedo-online play. It's not traditional online play, and there are other ways to regain your lost life than to destroy a demon on your own.

Anyway, I sense that Yahtzee gave up on the game cause it kicked his ass. If he'd have stuck to it, he'd have learned to pay more attention, learn from his mistakes, and man up. As it is, he doesn't like it, and has told the world it's not as good as the world thinks. Shame, that. It's a good thing the world told HIM that it was good enough to review, and not vice versa (World being whatever collective told/made him review the game).

 

[Caligulove]

hahahaha... sussex. So true

 

[Firia]

Spoiler: condensed words of TRUTH

Yahtzee, I know you're all for comedy and sarcasm, but you missed a few glaring points that would have made things clearer for those who rely on you to help them choose games.

1: "No checkpoints"
No, there's no checkpoints in the sense that "Oh shit, I died, I'll respawn here and only have to walk five feet to get back where I was", but there ARE game mechanics that function the same way and it seems you either willfully omitted mentioning them or didn't spend any time exploring to find them.

In the first level, the two side towers of the main gatehouse have locked gates; make it down to the bottom from the top entrance via the battlement, and there's a lever you can pull to open them. Those gates stay open, and act like checkpoints because even if you die you can just fight back up the tower and instantly be back on the battlement without having to slog through the entire beginning again.

1a: "No saving until a boss is beaten"

Not true. Above-mentioned unlocked shortcuts STAY even if you quit the game, go somewhere else, or die.

2: "Dodging doesn't do shit"

Dodging works, but it's not a quicktime event. You have to keep dodging or blocking, and the skeleton scenario you described counts as TWO attacks, so you have to respond to both by either blocking, countering, or dodge/rolling. You can't just sit there like a twat and bask in the glory of your dodge. BTW - what he did to you is called a Riposte.

3: "Dragon came out of nowhere"

Sure, it's seem that way if you ran out onto the rampart like a football player chasing teenage skirts, but if you'd explored the castle gatehouse you'd have SEEN that dragon and realized the entire level is one big area, and HE FLIES BEHIND THE GATEHOUSE.

4: "Notes left by other players are worthless"

Again, you didn't play long enough to see this (clearly), but bad comments don't last more than a day. If messages aren't promoted, they're deleted during a server cycle (about once a day).

5: "Only way to get HP back is to defeat a major Demon"

Again you didn't seem to play enough to find this out, but you can also get your life back by helping another player (Via blue-eye stone), killing another player (via red-eye stone), or having a message that is promoted by a certain number of other players as being helpful.

6: "Difficulty.DemonsSouls = Concrete.obj + forehead.obj"

Again, not true. Each enemy simply requires a different tactic to beat, and the game punishes you for running in like Rambo without thinking about it. Once you learn a tactic to defeat each enemy, it's more about keeping up with the new ones and upgrading your armor than banging your head against an impossible wall. One solution does not fit all monsters.

Also, Turpentine kills those dogs MUCH quicker, upgraded armor will help you IMMENSELY against the Tower Knight and his guards, and yes, the underground way is much much easier.

In conclusion, all this stuff I learned on my own because I'm awesome that way, but if the difficulty is like so much water in your treacle, there's an official wiki that everybody who plays the game contributes to where you can quickly learn these hints and benefit from other players' experiences.

The game is great and I think you should give it another go with this knowledge.

- Helba

Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one shaking their head watching this interview.

 

[Uznare]

I had to make an account just for this thread, I cannot believe how many stupid comments I've read on this particular thread.

DEMON'S SOULS IS NOT A HARD GAME FOR THE SAKE OF BEING HARD, IT'S MEANT TO BE REWARDING, IT'S ONE OF THE MOST FUN EXPERIENCES THIS YEAR FOR THE PS3.

I consider myself to suck pretty hardcore at games and even I beat it, I'm actually on NG+++ and the game gets "harder" each time you beat it and I still find it loads of fun.

I've read some posts about some guys that haven't even played the game and are saying stupid things about the gameplay mechanics like "lawl you don't have to kill the boss to revive, you just have to get your bloodstain" THAT IS WRONG, YOU DO NOT REVIVE, YOU ONLY REVIVE BY USING A STONE OF EPHEMERAL EYES (Ingame item) or killing a Boss.

I could go wiki on your rear ends but I won't, besides even the damn designers recommend using the official wiki for the game, so even loving stupid people can beat it without much trouble.

I've never raged so much at a thread before, jesus you guys, play the damn game before saying stuff this stupid.

 

[Firia]

I'm a little worried about the whole "No Pausing" thing.. I understand not allowing pausing when menu navigating to keep the difficulty up, but odds are I'm going to be interrupted at least a few times by other, more pressing matters while playing this. Are there ANY parts in this game where you can take a breather or something, or do I just have to hope that I'm never interrupted anywhere outside the beginning of a level?

The game rewards things like being prepared. If you back up a few steps in a sword fight, and try to sift through your inventory for that healing herb, you're going to get run through. If however you prepare the herb before hand on the quick menu (very handy), you'll do just fine. Just get some distance before eating the, uh, grass.

Be prepared, be aware, learn from your mistakes, and learn from mistakes of others (blood splotches).

 

[Uznare]

I'm a little worried about the whole "No Pausing" thing.. I understand not allowing pausing when menu navigating to keep the difficulty up, but odds are I'm going to be interrupted at least a few times by other, more pressing matters while playing this. Are there ANY parts in this game where you can take a breather or something, or do I just have to hope that I'm never interrupted anywhere outside the beginning of a level?

The game rewards things like being prepared. If you back up a few steps in a sword fight, and try to sift through your inventory for that healing herb, you're going to get run through. If however you prepare the herb before hand on the quick menu (very handy), you'll do just fine. Just get some distance before eating the, uh, grass.

Be prepared, be aware, learn from your mistakes, and learn from mistakes of others (blood splotches).

Actually, enemies don't respawn during the levels (Until you die that is) so if you clear out an area anywhere in the level you can just let your character sit there and not worry about being killed, unless you get invaded by a Black Phantom which is why I'd recommend always playing in soul form unless there's the need to be in body form

 

[Woem]

I'm curious what type his new microphone is, it looks like it's similar to the original one. $2.5 again?

 

[Helba1984]

Spoiler: condensed words of TRUTH

Yahtzee, I know you're all for comedy and sarcasm, but you missed a few glaring points that would have made things clearer for those who rely on you to help them choose games.

1: "No checkpoints"
No, there's no checkpoints in the sense that "Oh shit, I died, I'll respawn here and only have to walk five feet to get back where I was", but there ARE game mechanics that function the same way and it seems you either willfully omitted mentioning them or didn't spend any time exploring to find them.

In the first level, the two side towers of the main gatehouse have locked gates; make it down to the bottom from the top entrance via the battlement, and there's a lever you can pull to open them. Those gates stay open, and act like checkpoints because even if you die you can just fight back up the tower and instantly be back on the battlement without having to slog through the entire beginning again.

1a: "No saving until a boss is beaten"

Not true. Above-mentioned unlocked shortcuts STAY even if you quit the game, go somewhere else, or die.

2: "Dodging doesn't do shit"

Dodging works, but it's not a quicktime event. You have to keep dodging or blocking, and the skeleton scenario you described counts as TWO attacks, so you have to respond to both by either blocking, countering, or dodge/rolling. You can't just sit there like a twat and bask in the glory of your dodge. BTW - what he did to you is called a Riposte.

3: "Dragon came out of nowhere"

Sure, it's seem that way if you ran out onto the rampart like a football player chasing teenage skirts, but if you'd explored the castle gatehouse you'd have SEEN that dragon and realized the entire level is one big area, and HE FLIES BEHIND THE GATEHOUSE.

4: "Notes left by other players are worthless"

Again, you didn't play long enough to see this (clearly), but bad comments don't last more than a day. If messages aren't promoted, they're deleted during a server cycle (about once a day).

5: "Only way to get HP back is to defeat a major Demon"

Again you didn't seem to play enough to find this out, but you can also get your life back by helping another player (Via blue-eye stone), killing another player (via red-eye stone), or having a message that is promoted by a certain number of other players as being helpful.

6: "Difficulty.DemonsSouls = Concrete.obj + forehead.obj"

Again, not true. Each enemy simply requires a different tactic to beat, and the game punishes you for running in like Rambo without thinking about it. Once you learn a tactic to defeat each enemy, it's more about keeping up with the new ones and upgrading your armor than banging your head against an impossible wall. One solution does not fit all monsters.

Also, Turpentine kills those dogs MUCH quicker, upgraded armor will help you IMMENSELY against the Tower Knight and his guards, and yes, the underground way is much much easier.

In conclusion, all this stuff I learned on my own because I'm awesome that way, but if the difficulty is like so much water in your treacle, there's an official wiki that everybody who plays the game contributes to where you can quickly learn these hints and benefit from other players' experiences.

The game is great and I think you should give it another go with this knowledge.

- Helba

Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one shaking their head watching this interview.

Lol. I appreciate Yahtzee for his comedy, this one was pretty funny, but I imagine I'd have been laughing a lot more if this were merely satire and not something I know people are going to use as a justification to pass on a supremely awesome game.

I didn't even get into the fact that after you press circle when that skeleton's about to Riposte, you can do a COUNTER-Riposte, which the game just calls a special counterattack. If you're not trying to do that, you're better off with circle + analog direction to just roll out of harm's way.

Or the Heroes.

Or the Merchants.

Or the fact that the dragon can be KILLED.

Additionally as others have mentioned, the game saves constantly, there are items EASILY found that make it harder for enemies to detect you, block poison/wounds, and boost soul form to 75% HP, ALL IN THE FIRST SECTION OF THE FIRST LEVEL.

 

[Artowis]

This reminds me so much of the SSBB review where the actual review is hilarious and Yahtzee gets bashed by infinite fanboys. I also love how now suddenly so many people are going, 'OMG THE GAME ISN'T THAT HARD! COME ONNNNNN' Which frankly is quite a bit of bullshit.

The game is hard. Yes, even early on the game is difficult.

It isn't so infuriatingly frustrating you can't beat each section after a few deaths, but that doesn't mean it's just a step above the average game until (insert arbitrary challenging point here). What I see a lot of here is a bunch of hindsight talk, where you've already reached a level where the game feels comfortable to you. In fact I have the perfect comparison, this is what the people who play Touhou on any difficult above Normal tell all the other SHUMP players. Just because playing on Lunatic is a whole new level of hurt for me, I still recognize that lower levels are very difficult for many.

 

[Helba1984]

This reminds me so much of the SSBB review where the actual review is hilarious and Yahtzee gets bashed by infinite fanboys. I also love how now suddenly so many people are going, 'OMG THE GAME ISN'T THAT HARD! COME ONNNNNN' Which frankly is quite a bit of bullshit.

The game is hard. Yes, even early on the game is difficult.

It isn't so infuriatingly frustrating you can't beat each section after a few deaths, but that doesn't mean it's just a step above the average game until (insert arbitrary challenging point here). What I see a lot of here is a bunch of hindsight talk, where you've already reached a level where the game feels comfortable to you. In fact I have the perfect comparison, this is what the people who play Touhou on any difficult above Normal tell all the other SHUMP players. Just because playing on Lunatic is a whole new level of hurt for me, I still recognize that lower levels are very difficult for many.

I agree with your difficulty assessment as to new players to the genre, but Yahtzee is a professional gamer - and the reason I and others are critical of his review is that most of his mistakes and gripes are because:

A: he didn't bother to explore (checkpoints, no mention of: Items, Nexus shortcuts, merchants, upgrades, etc.)

B: didn't "mind his surroundings" (charred bodies, a dragon that flies behind the gatehouse you just exited out the back of, and a loud roar that gets closer aren't enough to tell you there's danger ahead?)

C: He misunderstood controls and game mechanics

If not for that I think he might actually have enjoyed it.

 

[Sewblon]

Demon's Souls? As in one demon with many souls? Or did they mean many demons with one soul? Methinks they placed the apostrophe in the wrong place.

To quote Linkara... "Because poor literacy is cool."

You mean "bekawse Pore lytarecie is kewl."

 

[Helba1984]

Demon's Souls? As in one demon with many souls? Or did they mean many demons with one soul? Methinks they placed the apostrophe in the wrong place.

To quote Linkara... "Because poor literacy is cool."

You mean "bekawse Pore lytarecie is kewl."

As-in the Biggest baddest demon of the game, called the Old One, who gathers Souls from living beings to increase his power.

Literally, the Demon's Souls.

 

[flaming_squirrel]

yeah Demon'ssssssss souls doesn't deserve the rating it got.

Yes it does, I'm sick of these below 100 post tards who think anything Yahtzee says is true without even playing the damn game. Having an Xbox avatar doesn't do much for your credibility either

All of the cool kids have over 1000 posts as it makes everything they say far more credible, HURRRRRRRRR.