Zero Punctuation: Deus Ex
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
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could not get in this game when it came out. my friend got it and we tried it out and this game just dint grab me. the controls felt awkward.... i just could not get in to it.
after few hours i just had enough of this game.
i never got my self part 2 and i highly doubt i will get HR.
after few hours i just had enough of this game.
i never got my self part 2 and i highly doubt i will get HR.
To be fair, Deus Ex has a difficulty curve that goes something like "batshit insane hard first mission because you don't know what to do, and you're a gimp". Then it actually gets good, real good. The rocket launcher actually blows people up. Even bosses can't take a rocket in the face and laugh it off. It has one of the best and most immersive storylines, and it even has AN ENTIRE CHAPTER that can be skipped if you play your cards right throughout the game. Basically, you get enough intel to give a proper warning in time, and you don't have to go to France.
After a while, you start to notice the way you like to play. Personally, I liked sneaking, assassinating and sabotaging, and having a kick ass rocket launcher to kill bosses with.
So, now that I've said enough about Deus ex, lets talk about DE:HR. It is an 8.5 of 10 game. It could have been a 10.0 in my book if they hadn't fucked it up.
Their Alpha tester failed so hard. Really really hard. I'll list the faults from minor to major.
1: Megan Reed's mother twitches so frickin much you'd think she was on a mix of amphetamine and cocaine.
2: They kept the stupid laser sight on sniper bug that makes the sniper miss when you attach it, because the aim goes for the laser, which you can't see on your scope... Yeah, that's something they copied from Deus Ex...
3: Hacking becomes really tedious quite fast. They made WAY TOO MANY things to hack.
4: The weapons' damage output is unbalanced. The silenced pistol is basically the most powerful weapon after the grenades/frag mines. EMP is also incredibly powerful. It's harder to kill people with a minigun than with a silenced pistol ffs.
5: Bosses can take 100 bullets from a minigun in the body/head, without dying... And they can step on 4 frag mines. (I played it on normal difficulty)
6: The energy system is so stupid it hurts. You can only regen 1 bar, and everything except minor augs need 1 energy bar, so you will be stuck on the first energy bar until you pop a refill, which aren't that abundant. This should have been avoided by adding the number of energy bars being recharged with the upgrade system. Instead they made all energy requiring augs a pain in the ass to use.
* the next ones can ruin the experience for you. Read at own risk.
7: An important role's voice actor (won't spoil it) really did a shitty job, so did the script writer for that scene. You'll understand if you go for the silver tongue style at the end.
But, the biggest fault lies deeper. They did not understand Deus Ex at all. They did really not understand what made it great. The story is linearized in the bad way. It lacks the political depth the old game had. And it made the assumption that the gamer is a stupid twat. Really * spoiler alert * just get to the second visit to Heng'sha and see the scene where EVERYONE gets the exact same Augmentation error AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME.
The story is too straight forward, and there are cutscenes that implement the "plot continuing stupid action" that is so often used. I am talking about having gone through 8 floors full of guards, assassinating half of them, all unseen, getting to the target, and then go soft and hesitate to shoot the ***** in the knee. WHAT THE FUCK. This is what Deus Ex did well. They didn't make cutscenes that forced you to do stupid stuff just to continue the plot.
It is obvious that the people at the very top of this game didn't know what Deus Ex 1 really was, but some of the ones in the midrange of the corp did. It does a whole lot very well, it has researched a lot of the technology and research done in this field, but it just gets too obvious that there are too many people without the vision of making something that pushes the envelope in all aspects that games usually avoid.
Had it not been Deus Ex, it would have been a good game that touched into fields few dare touch, but considering what they based themselves on, they really did not do well.
After a while, you start to notice the way you like to play. Personally, I liked sneaking, assassinating and sabotaging, and having a kick ass rocket launcher to kill bosses with.
So, now that I've said enough about Deus ex, lets talk about DE:HR. It is an 8.5 of 10 game. It could have been a 10.0 in my book if they hadn't fucked it up.
Their Alpha tester failed so hard. Really really hard. I'll list the faults from minor to major.
1: Megan Reed's mother twitches so frickin much you'd think she was on a mix of amphetamine and cocaine.
2: They kept the stupid laser sight on sniper bug that makes the sniper miss when you attach it, because the aim goes for the laser, which you can't see on your scope... Yeah, that's something they copied from Deus Ex...
3: Hacking becomes really tedious quite fast. They made WAY TOO MANY things to hack.
4: The weapons' damage output is unbalanced. The silenced pistol is basically the most powerful weapon after the grenades/frag mines. EMP is also incredibly powerful. It's harder to kill people with a minigun than with a silenced pistol ffs.
5: Bosses can take 100 bullets from a minigun in the body/head, without dying... And they can step on 4 frag mines. (I played it on normal difficulty)
6: The energy system is so stupid it hurts. You can only regen 1 bar, and everything except minor augs need 1 energy bar, so you will be stuck on the first energy bar until you pop a refill, which aren't that abundant. This should have been avoided by adding the number of energy bars being recharged with the upgrade system. Instead they made all energy requiring augs a pain in the ass to use.
* the next ones can ruin the experience for you. Read at own risk.
7: An important role's voice actor (won't spoil it) really did a shitty job, so did the script writer for that scene. You'll understand if you go for the silver tongue style at the end.
But, the biggest fault lies deeper. They did not understand Deus Ex at all. They did really not understand what made it great. The story is linearized in the bad way. It lacks the political depth the old game had. And it made the assumption that the gamer is a stupid twat. Really * spoiler alert * just get to the second visit to Heng'sha and see the scene where EVERYONE gets the exact same Augmentation error AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME.
The story is too straight forward, and there are cutscenes that implement the "plot continuing stupid action" that is so often used. I am talking about having gone through 8 floors full of guards, assassinating half of them, all unseen, getting to the target, and then go soft and hesitate to shoot the ***** in the knee. WHAT THE FUCK. This is what Deus Ex did well. They didn't make cutscenes that forced you to do stupid stuff just to continue the plot.
It is obvious that the people at the very top of this game didn't know what Deus Ex 1 really was, but some of the ones in the midrange of the corp did. It does a whole lot very well, it has researched a lot of the technology and research done in this field, but it just gets too obvious that there are too many people without the vision of making something that pushes the envelope in all aspects that games usually avoid.
Had it not been Deus Ex, it would have been a good game that touched into fields few dare touch, but considering what they based themselves on, they really did not do well.
Isn't that more or less exactly what everyone said about Invisible War when it first came out?Exterminas said:
I'm waiting till human revolution is on steam sale because I heard it has a good story but I don't think it can stand up to the original.
DE1 had huge open levels and that was one of the major drawbacks of invisible war. The level size was limited by the puny memory of the first xbox.
It also had immersion, you could pick up a basketball and just spend time doing free throws.
It had limited resources so you had to make hard decisions both in building your character and in resource use. It didn't have puzzles so much as problems that you solved in character. It had role-playing not for in game reward but for player satisfaction. In DE1 when I was escaping from UNATCO I did it 100% non-lethal, because these were my former friends and colleagues who are just doing their job. Where as I didn't think twice about mowing down waves of MJ12 agents.
Modern games just don't have that kind of replayability because developers hate "wasting" resources on portions of the game some players might not see.
DE1 had huge open levels and that was one of the major drawbacks of invisible war. The level size was limited by the puny memory of the first xbox.
It also had immersion, you could pick up a basketball and just spend time doing free throws.
It had limited resources so you had to make hard decisions both in building your character and in resource use. It didn't have puzzles so much as problems that you solved in character. It had role-playing not for in game reward but for player satisfaction. In DE1 when I was escaping from UNATCO I did it 100% non-lethal, because these were my former friends and colleagues who are just doing their job. Where as I didn't think twice about mowing down waves of MJ12 agents.
Modern games just don't have that kind of replayability because developers hate "wasting" resources on portions of the game some players might not see.
While I enjoyed Human Revolution very much and IMO it really shines in the story(-telling) department (without too many 'cameos' from the original), Yahtzee is going to tear it apart on the gameplay side. No firearm skills or any skills for that matter, cover-based shooting (though I'd argue it comes more in handy for stealthing, which might be worse), regenerating health and bioelectricity...
Plus the gameplay side felt a bit depth-less occasionally. Not enough to be a big problem but every now and then it felt that there were only two specializations: combat and stealth, instead of the promised hacking and social specializations too.
Plus the gameplay side felt a bit depth-less occasionally. Not enough to be a big problem but every now and then it felt that there were only two specializations: combat and stealth, instead of the promised hacking and social specializations too.
No making fun of the French terrorists? Well I'll let it pass this time Yahtzee.
Deus Ex is sort of like NOLF - both went all out and managed to pull it together. NOLF was more overtly a parody, which did give it some more cushion, but Deus Ex just managed to play the parody with a straight face.thethingthatlurks said:
I bought the original Deus Ex and played it for the first time only when it was on sale on Steam for its 10th anniversary. I'd heard a lot of really good things about it, but while I expected it to be good, I thought most of that was probably just nostalgia on the part of people talking who'd played it back when it was released.
I was wrong. Despite the fact that it was 10 years old and I was playing it for the first time, it still blew me away. The graphics are pretty much the only part of it that's aged to any great degree and I honestly stopped being bothered by them after the first level or so. It's a brilliant game, and definitely one of the best I've ever played.
I'm looking forward to the Human Revolution review next week. Personally, I thought it lived up to the legacy of the original, but it'll be interesting to see Yahtzee's take on it. I can see him complaining about the boss fights, and maybe the omnipresent chest-high cover.
I was wrong. Despite the fact that it was 10 years old and I was playing it for the first time, it still blew me away. The graphics are pretty much the only part of it that's aged to any great degree and I honestly stopped being bothered by them after the first level or so. It's a brilliant game, and definitely one of the best I've ever played.
I'm looking forward to the Human Revolution review next week. Personally, I thought it lived up to the legacy of the original, but it'll be interesting to see Yahtzee's take on it. I can see him complaining about the boss fights, and maybe the omnipresent chest-high cover.
Yes. And that is exactly the reason why most people considered Invisible War to be crap.Squilookle said:
But even invisible war had more freedom than Human Revolution.
My personal theory to why Human Revolution is hailed as such a great game is that it is the first Deus Ex that got marketed to consoles in a vast amount.
Of course I am not trying to claim that console players are retards or something like that, but I figure that amongst console players the chance of getting a Deus-Ex-Virgin is the highest. Resulting in a lack of comparison.
You get no slithering on lips, in fact you don't get any say in the matter. Instead you hide in the corner for a bit and move on.
Yahtzee, I wish you luck with Human Resources.
PS: Keep an eye out for the room that looks like it was flour bombed!
Yahtzee, I wish you luck with Human Resources.
PS: Keep an eye out for the room that looks like it was flour bombed!
I really liked Human Revolution. I found the story, themes (cyberpunk renaissance), characters and gameplay to all be of very high quality. I sill haven't played the original (I was only 7 at the time of it's release date) but I think I might download it of steam soon.
A little side note but, Human Revolution reminded me of Ghost in the Shell so much. This is a good thing. Ghost in the Shell is my favourite anime.
A little side note but, Human Revolution reminded me of Ghost in the Shell so much. This is a good thing. Ghost in the Shell is my favourite anime.
Finally someone points out the correct pronunciation of the title. I know it is evil of me, but a part of me cringes every time I hear "Doose" Ex and a second little part of me loses a smidge of respect from the person whose mouth uttered those words. Alright, I lose a lot of respect.
Completely agree with the retro-review. I remember when Deus Ex initially came out and I had fortunately befriended an upper-class schoolmate a couple of years previously (i.e. he could afford a good computer). Playing it for the first time was intense. Definitely one of those memorable moments when you think, "This is different, this sets the bar."
Completely agree with the retro-review. I remember when Deus Ex initially came out and I had fortunately befriended an upper-class schoolmate a couple of years previously (i.e. he could afford a good computer). Playing it for the first time was intense. Definitely one of those memorable moments when you think, "This is different, this sets the bar."
I chose "Give me Deus Ex", and the third 'boss' tanked literally 200 minigun (modded for max capacity and damage) rounds in the head like nobody's business.Tinybear said:
Thankfully, if you ran around enough, you could actually quicksave on that one.
Here's my full comments on the game
Finished Deus Ex: Human Revolution.
Results? Mediocre at best. With extra cheese. Couldn't help thinking "when is this going to end?" a few times. No morality choice, only a choice of how to do what you're told, and accept/reject side quests (exp).
A few steps in the right direction (back to blocky inventory), a few in the wrong (regenerating health, etc - refer to minor issues below) since Invisible war.
However there was no excuse for the unskippable intro and appalling ending*.
Aaaand it goes on....
Also felt more way more like a shooter than a free roamer. Sure the cities are big - I even got lost a couple of times - but there are TWO, and you can't even choose which one to go to, the story does that for you.
I really liked the developed stealth mechanism, as well as the massive rewards for exploring (as well as staying quiet). The "social side" on the other hand was cool and all, but I never saw any real benefits to it.
Deciding to go off my previous experience, I decided to be a hacker and put all of my advancement points in to that, and the games were fun as well as rewarding. It worked pretty well when I went around stealth exploring and 'pacifying' enemies. However during boss fights, and in one certain other scene**, I felt a little overwhelmed (thankfully I had a nuclear stockpile on me after taking out almost every NPC by hand). There was no indication as to how much health I still had to chip away at since flat out unloaded 200 bullets into one of the bosses heads doesn't seem to work (yes I did, and the heavy rifle with four expansion mods) - I understand the need for unrealism sometimes, but Jesus H Christ, this is worse than Final Fantasy bosses. I actually can't wait until they start making stealth bosses (ie: you can assassinate them, they can assassinate you).
One thing that caught my attention early on was that you only had one recharging cell, and I thought "ok, maybe if I buy more" *buzzer*EEEEEE. So you can knock out one person but then you have to wait until you can... PUNCH or CHOKE the next one? Seriously? Even I could do better. Same goes for falling from a 3m height before the leg and back augmentations (I do appreciate that with all that metal he can be heavier, but how does that factor in to the fleshy bits getting damaged?), or climbing altogether like IW did.
Then I remembered that "oh wait, but you shouldn't be able to use your augments ad infinitum". That's when it hit me: There are only four. None of which I really used within the context of the game. What happened to the original when I used to have loads active?
*RANT*Ok, ok, you can say it's not the future - how do you explain away regenerating health, immunity to gas AND electricity (and a convenient absence of underwater sections)? "Good DNA" doesn't hack it for me, and "experimental augs" shouldn't be that experimental since he's still not military. Even Alex in the future doesn't have this stuff. (Also please explain this to me: are all 3 games set within like 20 years of each other? */RANT*
Moreover the "four things you can activate" seems to me at least to be the dreaded "consolification syndrome". No, they did a great job trying to make it not feel consoley, it being a computer game and all, but that interface/suggestion with them four together, conversation arrangement and hacking got me. Why not just set up right click to nuke, keep space as slow, then left click to either capture or defend. More than once I pressed the wrong thing trying to rush through in the time.
Getting back to the well designed one-hit-[knockout/kill] system, it worked fairly well - albeit having a hiccup or two with physics or detection. So well that it well over half way through the game before I realised that you couldn't actually use any melee weapons. If you knocked someone out, you'd have to use a gun to kill them - that or throw them over a ledge or in to electricity. To be honest, I did try drowning and gassing them, but they seem ed quite content to sleep on in these circumstances. Guess they don't have to breathe when they sleep (unlike the original).
Another thing that really got me was the mines. It was only later that I saw a tip that you had to approach them slowly... as opposed to running at them to defuse them quickly. I wouldn't say that's either good or bad - just different, possibly a bit unexpected too.
Note: I didn't actually intend for it to be this long.
Final review: worth say 14 pounds new.
PS: here's a skip intro file to copy in to the main folder:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/944090-deus-ex-human-revolution/60137370?page=2
http://www.mediafire.com/?9w9qr7um9zzodtu
Spoiler alert
*You get 4 buttons to choose which ending you want >.>
**Construction site - making the chopper NOT blow up on the hardest difficulty, while stealth/hack specked.
Good points:
YOU CAN SAVE AT YOUR OWN FREE WILL
Quicksave/load F5/F8 INVALUABLE
Headshotting actually works.
No "unlocking difficulties".
There's a point to hiding bodies.
Open worldy/explore atmosphere apart from first mission, and later.
Sometimes comically bad, and monotone voice acting XD
Remembers where weapons or items were dropped.
Don't have to repeatedly reload when going in/out of some buildings (however a longer load time - not too much of an issue unless you're dying all the time).
MINOR ISSUES:
Throw him off the roof quest lady tells you to still throw him off the roof even when you plant drugs, but if you do, you fail the quest.
NPC after getting awakened by team mate pulls a pistol out of his arse. Otherwise he'll sleep forever. They also pull ammo from there too.
AI doesn't look very far for you after you disappear.
AI doesn't care about friends (who were patrolling) disappearing.
Crouch and ironsights only have toggle, however that doesn't really matter since you're stuck in crouch more often than not, and ironsights don't really do anything when you get an aug/lasersights/paint a dot on your screen.
No lockpicks for obvious but closed doors/gates.
A few times in the Sarif building, people sitting down would stare at you and not the person they're talking to.
Sarif building - all the elevators only go tro one spot and back. Whatever happened to using them normally?
Ladder climbing feels very rigid (you have to use the "use" key).
One mission chopper doesn't follow you back to the home building, even if you go on foot.
Cameras are ALWAYS evil.
Pancheya building: cardboard doesn't burn out, it just keeps burning.As a hacker with electricity protection, AND using pheromones on the creator of augs the" last boss" was laughable. All I had to do was hide. While the other bosses I died at least a few times, before I even figured out what I was doing (1: Tazer, combat rifle; 2: electrify everything and jump - run backwards with minigun; 3: Run around like a crazy ************, and quicksave, hoping to get lucky).
Results? Mediocre at best. With extra cheese. Couldn't help thinking "when is this going to end?" a few times. No morality choice, only a choice of how to do what you're told, and accept/reject side quests (exp).
A few steps in the right direction (back to blocky inventory), a few in the wrong (regenerating health, etc - refer to minor issues below) since Invisible war.
However there was no excuse for the unskippable intro and appalling ending*.
Aaaand it goes on....
Also felt more way more like a shooter than a free roamer. Sure the cities are big - I even got lost a couple of times - but there are TWO, and you can't even choose which one to go to, the story does that for you.
I really liked the developed stealth mechanism, as well as the massive rewards for exploring (as well as staying quiet). The "social side" on the other hand was cool and all, but I never saw any real benefits to it.
Deciding to go off my previous experience, I decided to be a hacker and put all of my advancement points in to that, and the games were fun as well as rewarding. It worked pretty well when I went around stealth exploring and 'pacifying' enemies. However during boss fights, and in one certain other scene**, I felt a little overwhelmed (thankfully I had a nuclear stockpile on me after taking out almost every NPC by hand). There was no indication as to how much health I still had to chip away at since flat out unloaded 200 bullets into one of the bosses heads doesn't seem to work (yes I did, and the heavy rifle with four expansion mods) - I understand the need for unrealism sometimes, but Jesus H Christ, this is worse than Final Fantasy bosses. I actually can't wait until they start making stealth bosses (ie: you can assassinate them, they can assassinate you).
One thing that caught my attention early on was that you only had one recharging cell, and I thought "ok, maybe if I buy more" *buzzer*EEEEEE. So you can knock out one person but then you have to wait until you can... PUNCH or CHOKE the next one? Seriously? Even I could do better. Same goes for falling from a 3m height before the leg and back augmentations (I do appreciate that with all that metal he can be heavier, but how does that factor in to the fleshy bits getting damaged?), or climbing altogether like IW did.
Then I remembered that "oh wait, but you shouldn't be able to use your augments ad infinitum". That's when it hit me: There are only four. None of which I really used within the context of the game. What happened to the original when I used to have loads active?
*RANT*Ok, ok, you can say it's not the future - how do you explain away regenerating health, immunity to gas AND electricity (and a convenient absence of underwater sections)? "Good DNA" doesn't hack it for me, and "experimental augs" shouldn't be that experimental since he's still not military. Even Alex in the future doesn't have this stuff. (Also please explain this to me: are all 3 games set within like 20 years of each other? */RANT*
Moreover the "four things you can activate" seems to me at least to be the dreaded "consolification syndrome". No, they did a great job trying to make it not feel consoley, it being a computer game and all, but that interface/suggestion with them four together, conversation arrangement and hacking got me. Why not just set up right click to nuke, keep space as slow, then left click to either capture or defend. More than once I pressed the wrong thing trying to rush through in the time.
Getting back to the well designed one-hit-[knockout/kill] system, it worked fairly well - albeit having a hiccup or two with physics or detection. So well that it well over half way through the game before I realised that you couldn't actually use any melee weapons. If you knocked someone out, you'd have to use a gun to kill them - that or throw them over a ledge or in to electricity. To be honest, I did try drowning and gassing them, but they seem ed quite content to sleep on in these circumstances. Guess they don't have to breathe when they sleep (unlike the original).
Another thing that really got me was the mines. It was only later that I saw a tip that you had to approach them slowly... as opposed to running at them to defuse them quickly. I wouldn't say that's either good or bad - just different, possibly a bit unexpected too.
Note: I didn't actually intend for it to be this long.
Final review: worth say 14 pounds new.
PS: here's a skip intro file to copy in to the main folder:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/944090-deus-ex-human-revolution/60137370?page=2
http://www.mediafire.com/?9w9qr7um9zzodtu
Spoiler alert
*You get 4 buttons to choose which ending you want >.>
**Construction site - making the chopper NOT blow up on the hardest difficulty, while stealth/hack specked.
Good points:
YOU CAN SAVE AT YOUR OWN FREE WILL
Quicksave/load F5/F8 INVALUABLE
Headshotting actually works.
No "unlocking difficulties".
There's a point to hiding bodies.
Open worldy/explore atmosphere apart from first mission, and later.
Sometimes comically bad, and monotone voice acting XD
Remembers where weapons or items were dropped.
Don't have to repeatedly reload when going in/out of some buildings (however a longer load time - not too much of an issue unless you're dying all the time).
MINOR ISSUES:
Throw him off the roof quest lady tells you to still throw him off the roof even when you plant drugs, but if you do, you fail the quest.
NPC after getting awakened by team mate pulls a pistol out of his arse. Otherwise he'll sleep forever. They also pull ammo from there too.
AI doesn't look very far for you after you disappear.
AI doesn't care about friends (who were patrolling) disappearing.
Crouch and ironsights only have toggle, however that doesn't really matter since you're stuck in crouch more often than not, and ironsights don't really do anything when you get an aug/lasersights/paint a dot on your screen.
No lockpicks for obvious but closed doors/gates.
A few times in the Sarif building, people sitting down would stare at you and not the person they're talking to.
Sarif building - all the elevators only go tro one spot and back. Whatever happened to using them normally?
Ladder climbing feels very rigid (you have to use the "use" key).
One mission chopper doesn't follow you back to the home building, even if you go on foot.
Cameras are ALWAYS evil.
Pancheya building: cardboard doesn't burn out, it just keeps burning.As a hacker with electricity protection, AND using pheromones on the creator of augs the" last boss" was laughable. All I had to do was hide. While the other bosses I died at least a few times, before I even figured out what I was doing (1: Tazer, combat rifle; 2: electrify everything and jump - run backwards with minigun; 3: Run around like a crazy ************, and quicksave, hoping to get lucky).
I've got to say, fuck these stupid interstitial ads. And yes that's vaguely off topic.
They start a few seconds after the video starts, and completely mess with full screen playback. Either start them at the start, or don't screw with the user experience so badly, please. Preferably both.
They start a few seconds after the video starts, and completely mess with full screen playback. Either start them at the start, or don't screw with the user experience so badly, please. Preferably both.
If you don't get what is the text at the end about, watch his review of Guitar Hero World Tour, and wait through the end.
Also, few days ago I just like Yahtz have installed Deux Ex, and it's very playable (after you download 2 gigabytes of community fixes and mods).
Also, few days ago I just like Yahtz have installed Deux Ex, and it's very playable (after you download 2 gigabytes of community fixes and mods).