Zero Punctuation: Dishonored

OuendanCyrus

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I rather have a silent protagonist that someone who never shuts up, I always end up hating about 80% of voiced protagonists.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Binary moral choice goes up there with QTEs and anything from Japan not named Silent Hill in the things Yahtzee hates. That doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for the developers. Guess they might actually need to innovate.
 

gardian06

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Yahtzee didn't like that there was a moral choice system, and then he patronizes the developer for not using the "cheating a Scrabble" version of English. Sorry Yahtzee Thief is an old game, and morality makes games.... fun.... never mind.
 

teebeeohh

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the whole "pick between a good ending and the fun killing" thing is what ultimately made me not enjoy this game as much as i would have liked to
 

Casual Shinji

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There is something not quite captivating about Dishonored.

On one hand it's got a great dank and atmospheric world filled with charismatic looking NPCs. On the other, I stopped playing it after the first assassination mission and for whatever reason I don't feel compeled to continue.
 

T3hSource

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I also left the game slightly disappointed,it could have been SO much more,but alas AAA schedules have to be met or you'll be fired.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Even though I love this game, I get what Yahtzee's saying. Not being able to talk does tend to...

*puts on sunglasses*

...take U out of the experience
 

NotALiberal

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teebeeohh said:
the whole "pick between a good ending and the fun killing" thing is what ultimately made me not enjoy this game as much as i would have liked to
Ditto right here. Killing people is sort of your job, it's in the games fucking tagline for Christs sake.

It should be based off big choices you make, not killing people like you're supposed to.

EDIT: What I mean to say is, they should do it Witcher style, where it's all arbitrary and there is no "good" and "evil" choices. More like... "Oh you killed that guy when you could've spared him? Too bad, he turns out to give you X reward" or "You didn't kill him? Too bad, he's going to make your life miserable now".
 

Erttheking

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The thing about the good/bad ending is that the don't automatically slam you with the bad ending if you kill a single person. I'm shit at stealth games and I got discovered a lot, forcing me to kill dozens of guards before I finally got to the final level, but in-between killing I used as many non-lethal takeouts and tranquilizer darts as possible and apparently the game noticed and cut me some slack, because despite of the dozens of guards I had killed, it acknowledged that I was at least trying to keep the body count to a minimal, even if I kept fucking that up, and gave me the good ending. In other words the game gives you some wiggle room and if you make an active effort to not kill everyone you see than getting the good ending should be pretty easy.

I'll admit that the story was rather disappointing though.
 

RJ 17

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Nov 27, 2011
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Earthfield said:
Didn't expect him to be so disappointed with it.

Well, I better try it for myself before judging.
Yahtzee's review is pretty much right in line with everything that my friends had said about the game. Pretty fun, but eeeehhhhhhhhh.....

The biggest complaint was that it was too short and that the endings weren't really much to write home about. I had been considering getting the game but after hearing from friends that had played it (one even said that his local GameStop had something like 30 used copies for sale only 4 days after the game came out) I've been thinking it's probably more along the lines of something you rent, knock out in a weekend, enjoy the experience, but then it's time to move on.

Seems like Yahtzee would agree with that notion.
 

Scorpid

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Fallout 2 didn't have a binary moral choice system and it is the greatest RPG I've ever played... but perhaps I have a bias.
Either way I agree I hate the silent protagonist because creating a character that has zero personality of his own is only frustrating to me, (which isn't the same as a shitty personality such as Nathan Drake) because when a NPC tells me to go fetch/kill/rescue something or someone I want to be able to at least know that PC isn't just a bloody robot that functions only to please those that gives it orders. Silent protagonist crutch that developers use only seems like a excuse to me for developers to not have to invest into having to make sure that PC's personality is consistent and logical when compared to the crazy things they'll be doing for the sake of advancing the game.
 

Chris Mosher

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Interesting,

I love that the ad before the video started sung the praises of Dishonoured to the point of absurdity, then Yahtzee goes on to tell me the game is one the positive side of mediocre.

Here is my impression of the game, I adored playing the games first mission when I had to escape because I suck at any game where I have to actually meet the baddies face to face ( I turned Skyrim into a Stealth sniper FPS). Then I got to the secret base met the one guys there and did everything and turned off the game because work likes me to be awake from 9 to 5 30 and then ever returned to finish anything. Don't know why, I just haven't been bothered.
 

Basement Cat

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Jul 26, 2012
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"because I'm the bell end."

It's a good thing that I have Urban Dictionary on my Google Favorites, otherwise I wouldn't get half the slang being slung about these days.

Yahtzee was faster paced on this episode than most. Maybe it's because I haven't had my requisite two pots of morning coffee yet but I kept missing things.
 

jehk

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While I enjoyed the "super sneaky nonviolent" approach I felt kinda bad when I tried the "lets slit everyone up" approach. They give you so many wonderful toys to murder your fellow man with then slap your hand when you reach for them. :(
 

Playing The System

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I've been tempted to buy this game every time I walk past in the shops honestly, but after seeing this review I feel that it'll just be another game that I feel "Meh" about...

More tempted now just to get a copy of Thief from Steam or something. XD
 

Xman490

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And so, Dish-ono-red joins the ranks of "Games Published by Bethesda that Yatzee thought Were Above Average but Didn't Really Like" with Fallout 3 and The Elder Scrolls games. The differences being that this sort of sandbox isn't running around landscapes but is instead sneaking around buildings.

Also, moral choice systems. Blech.
 

Tireseas_v1legacy

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leviadragon99 said:
Sooo... mixed overall then.
Pretty much. I played completely through it once so far and got what I think is the middle ending. It does offer some challenge, especially if you go for the no-kill run, but the non-regenerating mana system really hamstrings a lot of potential.
 

Astro

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I knew Yahtzee wouldn't love Dishonored but I'm surprised that he liked it as much as he did. He mentioned that the game gets a bit easy towards the end, and I guess that's more up to which skills he picked, but the game is too easy from the start of the second mission if you pick Blink and Dark Vision to upgrade first - your bread and butter abilities. The stealth isn't up to much once you've figured out the guards can't look up and you can instantly be 'up' pretty much anywhere at no cost to your mana after you wait three seconds. The non-lethal assassinations also all feel incredibly token and gimmicky given the narrative, what's required to pull them off, and how easy the regular assassinations are. It's cluttered and as he mentioned it struggles to find a rhythm. A lot of the writing is either a mishandled version of Thief, Half-Life 2 and Bioshock and pretty much anything original to Dishonored is just bad. The world feels empty, there's too much telling and not enough showing, exploration for the sake of learning about the world goes against Corvo as a character, etc.

I really didn't think this game was anything special, it doesn't even come close to Thief or Hitman and I'm surprised people are saying it's the best stealth game in 10+ years, even Thief 3 was better, (and ahem, Blood Money).
 

chi7891

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I also expected a more positive review. I thought the game was excellent - one of the best I've played in a long time.
 

robinkom

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As an American, I always enjoy Yahtzee's jabs at our construed English. It was Noah Webster that removed the "u" from words like dishonoured when he wrote the first American Dictionary... it's his fault, blame it on him. ;)
 

C117

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I do agree that it feels a tad bit odd to give the player a good ending or a bad ending depending on how many people they killed throughout the game. Especially since said game gives the murder path a freaking TON of ways to get rid of someone, but the pacifist path gives you exactly two: sleep darts, and a forceful neckhugging. Neither of which is especially useful once guards do inevitably catch a glimpse of your incredibly suspiciouslooking halloween mask.

And unlike Yahtzee, I strived for the no-kill achievment from beginning to end, and almost thought I made it. I never killed anyone on the missions, I disposed of all my targets nonlethaly, and I even shot that duelist guy with a sleep dart in the noggin'. But when I finished, I didn't get the achievment.

And then it hit me. I had killed two individuals. In fact, it was the first two individuals I encountered in the whole game. It was in the tutorial, and the game basically said "waste their asses".

I felt pretty drained after that...

Overall though, I enjoyed Dishonored. It was challenging and interesting enough to make me play through to the end, even if I probably won't play it again in quite some time. Guess I'm very easy to please.
 

thisbymaster

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The environment gave me a Half-life 2 feel. The game play felt slow until you upgraded your abilities. I tried to start off with the non-lethal approach but that was boring so I just found myself killing everyone. But everyplace they gave me a chance to do the non-lethal I did, even when everyone else died. All of the plot turns were easy to see at the very beginning. "Your going to die, your going to die, etc etc." I really felt that so many times we should have been given a chances to say something. I think there are some bugs that should be fixed, like if you rewire a light wall and a guard walks through it somehow everyone thinks it was you even when no one saw you do it. Maybe allow for corvo to put on the uniform of one of the guards?
 

The Last Melon

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I literally threw my arms up into the air when I read "Why are you all so bad at spelling 'honour'". AMEN BROTHER TELL IT ON THE MOUNTAIN
 

Metalrocks

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havent finished it yet since i got the game few days ago but i do enjoy it so far. my first play through is stealth. killed few guards at the beginning but i dont care because the awareness is still low. but stealth is really good and i enjoy it a lot.
but my second play through will be killing everything.
 

BrionJames

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The morality thing did kind of irritate me. When the trailers first popped up on the internet, it shows all kind of stabby fun. Then the game came out and told me that it was "dark" for me to kill anyone. Fuck that, I understand that they were trying to point out the dangers of wrath and vengeance, but wasn't that what the game's premise is based on. Plus, by not having Corvo talk, we don't know if he actually wants revenge or is just some Jason Vorhees psychopath who lost his mind after his lover was killed in front of him. I did like this game, but it definitely needs some work. For now I guess I'll just have to stick with some good 'old fashioned Metal Gear Solid for my stealth needs.
 

disgruntledgamer

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OuendanCyrus said:
I rather have a silent protagonist that someone who never shuts up, I always end up hating about 80% of voiced protagonists.
A protagonists with a Bad voice actor and script is going to be worse than a silent protagonist, but a Good voice actor with a good script or even a mediocre script will out shine a silent protagonist 6 ways from Sunday.

The trick is getting that Good voice actor and script.
 

romanator0

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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Binary moral choice goes up there with QTEs and anything from Japan not named Silent Hill in the things Yahtzee hates. That doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for the developers. Guess they might actually need to innovate.
Well he likes Shadow of the Colossus and that's Japanese.

Gotta agree with Yahtzee on the length of the game though. For a game that's only single-player it's just too damn short for $60. And the game does seem a bit half-baked when it comes to some of it's mechanics like only having sleep darts and strangling people for non-lethal take downs, why not allow the player to club guards for a quicker take down but have it make some noise. Being forced to have the dagger in the right hand when it's almost completely useless for a non-lethal playthrough and also why not have more melee weapons for fighting that working differently.
 

CrazyGirl17

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I'm kinda with Yahtzee, I'm tired of silent protagonists. Not that there aren't plenty of good games with silent protagonists, but I'd prefer the main character to have some y=type of personality!

Also, I feel moral choice systems can be used to different game ends, but game developers are probably just lazy.
 
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You were expecting personality in a game published by Bethesda? Come on, now. And yeah, silent protagonists are fucking stupid. Maybe I'm just terrible at projecting myself on the character, but I honestly always think of silent protagonists as having absolutely no personality at all.

Also, the image of Noam Chomsky jumping all over the furniture and assassinating people made my day.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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RJ 17 said:
Yahtzee's review is pretty much right in line with everything that my friends had said about the game. Pretty fun, but eeeehhhhhhhhh.....

The biggest complaint was that it was too short and that the endings weren't really much to write home about. I had been considering getting the game but after hearing from friends that had played it (one even said that his local GameStop had something like 30 used copies for sale only 4 days after the game came out) I've been thinking it's probably more along the lines of something you rent, knock out in a weekend, enjoy the experience, but then it's time to move on.

Seems like Yahtzee would agree with that notion.
I see, since I'm not in USA, and we don't have much of a used re-sell, it's hard to measure that. It's interesting to analyze that idea though, how long it takes and how many are re-sold.

I guess it's not my cup of tea then, I purchase only to keep, and it appears dishonored is not exactly a keeper.
 

TheIronRuler

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Sure, praise HL2 as the second coming of christ, but talk about how silent protagonists are bad.

You couldn't find anything bad to say, did you?
 

SonOfMethuselah

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I'm enjoying Dishonored (I'll leave the 'u' out, because it's the title of a work, but I am not happy about it) so far, but I hear what Yahtzee's saying. I mean, personally, the only reason I reload when I get caught is because I'm trying for a pacifist-ghost run-through for trophy purposes. Not that I'm a trophy whore or anything, but because I actually wanted to see how difficult that made the game.

But there's nothing particularly engaging about the characters. The Loyalists in particular are about as characterized as a cardboard cutout. It's like they put so much effort into creating the world as a whole that they forgot to populate it until the last minute, and then had to rush through it.

Considering Arkane has only developed three games including this one, (and disregarding the art work they did on Bioshock 2), it's definitely not a bad attempt. I'd like to see it get a sequel, if only so that I can explore the world again with a more interesting population.

Also, I have no opinion one way or the other about silent protagonists, but I found it weird that they gave Corvo so much back story, and then didn't give him a voice. Probably a casualty of the moral choice thing.
 

maximalist566

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What shall we do with a drunken Yahtzee?
What shall we do with a drunken Yahtzee?
What shall we do with a drunken Yahtzee?
Earl-aye in the morning?

Feed him to the hungry Jim for dinner,
Feed him to the hungry Jim for dinner,
Feed him to the hungry Jim for dinner,
Earl-aye in the morning



Yahtzee is too harsh but has a point, as always.
 

jehk

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In Search of Username said:
You were expecting personality in a game published by Bethesda? Come on, now. And yeah, silent protagonists are fucking stupid. Maybe I'm just terrible at projecting myself on the character, but I honestly always think of silent protagonists as having absolutely no personality at all.
Silent protagonists are a reflection of the person playing them. If your silent protagonists has no personality...
 

1nfinite_Cros5

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I was under the impression that Yahtzee would like this more than he said he did before I saw the review. I'm trying to work out a formula of things included in games that Yahtzee may like. I knew Dishonored had many similarities to Thief predicted that Yahtzee would bring it up in his review, but I was just under the impression that he would like the game as well.

Ah well. Guess I'll pick this up anyways sometime down the road.
 

SnakeoilSage

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Can't say I'm really surprised; it's not like Yahtzee hasn't spent most of his career working the shaft of Thief 2 or Silent Hill 2 every chance he gets, to the point where it's getting kind of embarrassing, like a grizzled old grandfather we have to visit every week who instead of continuing a conversation starts it up all over again regardless of what the topic was. Sort of like Romney! Ba-dum-tish.

That being said he does have a bit of a point this time. Summoning up armies of rats to kill things is fine but the length and depth of the story and the game itself is pretty poor. Like someone cut out the Thieves Guild quests from Skyrim and just made a game about that, only without all the recyclable side-quests and special loot hunting cut out.

That being said it is an above average game; with time, polish and a solid development team the impending sequel could be really good. Remember guys; Yahtzee only sort of liked Thief, but he REALLY likes Thief 2. He won't bloody shut up about it.
 

Mumorpuger

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I wanted to get this, but considering that I haven't completed Thief/Thief II, I think I'll get those instead and save some money.
 

Lovely Mixture

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TheIronRuler said:
Sure, praise HL2 as the second coming of christ, but talk about how silent protagonists are bad.

You couldn't find anything bad to say, did you?
He's never been THAT supportive of the Half-Life series. And he didn't say they were bad, just poorly implemented in this case.
 

StriderShinryu

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Thank you, thank you, thank you for calling out the garbage "silent protagonist who actually does have a determined personality/existence" approach for what it is.. garbage. And extra marks for actually mentioning Freeman in the discussion of how silly that approach really is.
 

llyrnion

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I believe the problem is not so much the killing vs. not-killing, but rather the reasoning behind it. In Thief, you don't kill because that is "unprofessional". The best thief is the one that doesn't stoop down to killing, and if you want to be the best (i.e., play on Expert), you don't kill anyone (and then you have the guys that ghost all the missions. That's pretty awesome. I've never had the patience or skill for that).

Whereas using the player's lethality as a reward/punishment mechanic is kinda meh...
 

Balkan

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I think that the case is the same as half life's , you decide your level of immersion .
The characters are quite interesting if you decide to talk to them ,listen to the whispers of the heart or examine their notes . Also they hint why Corvo is a bodyguard to the Empress .
 

Gunjester

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OuendanCyrus said:
I rather have a silent protagonist that someone who never shuts up, I always end up hating about 80% of voiced protagonists.
Ever considered that's because 80% of voiced protagonists suck or are samey?
There are protagonists who's presence and voices I've thoroughly enjoyed having with me. A silent protagonist is a character that lets you fill in the blanks and feel like you're in the story, a silent protagonist with conversation options stresses this more but a voice protagonist feels less like me in the shoes of this character taking the journey and more me taking the journey with this character. Like they're more companions than me. I like both to tell the truth.
 

jehk

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The key to making a silent protagonist work is giving the player tons of options to choose from even if the majority of those options have little to no effect on the game. It allows the player to create the character they want. Corvo didn't have that. I will agree this silent protagonist sucks. I'd say the same about Half Life to best honest.
 

TheMich88

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Earthfield said:
Didn't expect him to be so disappointed with it.

Well, I better try it for myself before judging.
It's true, I thought he would have liked it. A lot. Unfortunately I haven't played it and I won't be able to for a while, but after watching Harvey Smith, Raphael Colantonio and all the others declare and express all the undiluted passion, thought, talent and effort to make Dishonored, seeing all that "unrewarded" by Yahtzee (that I respect very very much, he's also the one who introduced me to Thief) leaves me kind of... empty.

Disappointed.

Sad.
 

dyre

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I agree that it's too short, and the main characters were a tad bland (I thought Emily was alright though. Also, I like how she changes depending on your actions), but I actually thought the guards were pretty well characterized, with solid dialogue throughout the game. They're pretty human, with different views on politics, differing amounts of empathy for plague victims, and even different opinions of Corvo depending on whether he's been massacring them or mostly letting them live. In any case, I don't think the blandness of the characters matters too much to the game. None of them were really important enough that their bland personalities harmed the game, which is quite excellent at its core mechanics.

I didn't mind the binary choice aspect, but the urge to reload the game when caught instead of outsmarting the guards did get pretty annoying. The devs ought to patch out the "getting caught increases chaos" thing, and also add more stuns (plenty of ways to murder guards, only a few to knock them out, which is strange considering the game seems to want the player to knock them out).
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Bash me all you want but: 1 - The moral system here actually makes sence; when you kill a lot of people the plague rats get a larger population and more people get infected, thus bringing more chaos. 2 - Corvo (in my opinion) is caring mainly about Emily (the kid) and will do anything to save/help her [ she is his Daughter and the Empress was his lover ], so I see him motivated by mainly that. 3 - you have to work hard to be a good person and do rightfull justice. Remember the "pope" dude from mission 1? Well, you brand him as a heretic because he has sinned by the church's rules and with others it's kinda same. The killing is easyer and more fun but you do not want to become a monster, so you keep your anger inside to be rightious.
Alltogether I adore this game but Yahtzee is right about most points. It took me about 13 hours on my first pay through and I didn't really read all books/notes and explore the levels, but I did try to stealth and got absorbed. For me - 8.5/10, nearly perfect.
 

Lykosia_v1legacy

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C117 said:
And unlike Yahtzee, I strived for the no-kill achievment from beginning to end, and almost thought I made it. I never killed anyone on the missions, I disposed of all my targets nonlethaly, and I even shot that duelist guy with a sleep dart in the noggin'. But when I finished, I didn't get the achievment.

And then it hit me. I had killed two individuals. In fact, it was the first two individuals I encountered in the whole game. It was in the tutorial, and the game basically said "waste their asses".

I felt pretty drained after that...
Those guys don't count. I got the clean hands achievement easily.
Key thing is not to help Granny nor Slackjaw in the sewers. Just steal the key and run. If you help either one, you end up killing the other.

Edit: I disagree with Yathzee. Dishonored is the best stealth game of this gen. The moral system makes sense, because if you kill guards there is less guards to deal with the weepers, bandits and rats. I played Dishonored through twice. First killing everyone and spending hours to find all the different ways to kill someone. I spent 5 hours alone with the first assassinations, because I wanted to see how many different ways there were to kill the guy. Second I used stealth and it was fun experience as well. I tried to avoid guards as much as I could.

I've almost 40 hours spent with the game, so I think that was 40 euros well spent.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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disgruntledgamer said:
OuendanCyrus said:
I rather have a silent protagonist that someone who never shuts up, I always end up hating about 80% of voiced protagonists.
A protagonists with a Bad voice actor and script is going to be worse than a silent protagonist, but a Good voice actor with a good script or even a mediocre script will out shine a silent protagonist 6 ways from Sunday.

The trick is getting that Good voice actor and script.
Good thing they went with a silent protagonist then, because the voice acting in this game was -terrible- with the worst performance easily going to the monotone Outsider
 
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Walter Byers said:
In Search of Username said:
You were expecting personality in a game published by Bethesda? Come on, now. And yeah, silent protagonists are fucking stupid. Maybe I'm just terrible at projecting myself on the character, but I honestly always think of silent protagonists as having absolutely no personality at all.
Silent protagonists are a reflection of the person playing them. If your silent protagonists has no personality...
Yeah but they aren't are they? I can't think 'what would *I* do in this situation?' because there is no way I can empathise with someone who runs around stabbing people and using his magical powers in a steampunk world. That is not a situation I will ever be in. But maybe if the character had some kind of personality of their own I could at least understand their motivations.
 

TRex22

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its quite funny, i Just finished Dishonored for the first time. There are actually 4 endings. All pretty much the same except you die at the end (sorrry spoilers) basically in all 4 endings (youtube) you die of old age WTF? Its a video game, why the f*** would I care if the character dies like 40 yrs later after the story ended, its not like the sims where the player controls the asshole for his entire lifespan. Anyway the core mechanics are fun for like 3 missions and then it all gets kind of monotonous. The level design is good but at times confusing. I got lost at several points. They wanted to make an open world feel but not a sandbox game so its all like play GTA with no harlets. Basically I agree with Yahtzee which I do always do with his reviews.

One last thing. (sorry perhaps some minor spoilers) At the end the one NPC (he was so generic he was not really a character) told me how disappointed in what I became (a serial killer) and that I should go f*** myself. He then shot a flare so everyone knew where I was. WTF? This is a STEALTH game that screws you if you are amoral. The killing animations are much more entertaining than the non-violent ones. Its really the only reason I killed almost everyone except a few targets (the non-violent option wa a worse fate for them tehee hee).

Finally thats my two rands worth.
Sorry for the long post. Just had been thinking about what made the game disappointing for me from all the hype I had read before - and had to get it off my chest before my examinations start.
It is a good game but I am really unhappy with how right at the end there is this shift. Myabe its because my game kept loading too quickly and I could not read the loading screen, but I felt the game was against me and not my friend trying to give me some entertainment and maybe some message on society or what ever. Instead it insulted me.
 

sageoftruth

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One thing that raised an eyebrow for me was his complaint about the characters being bleep bloopy but with expressive faces. I kind of felt the opposite. I felt that their voices had character, but their faces just didn't change, especially Emily. She's supposed to adore you, but her face never changes from, well, neutral. I don't think they got more than one expression each. It was some serious uncanny valley material when the characters' voices were implying strong emotions but they faces stayed neutral.

Still, I strongly recommend the game. It was designed so you can pick from a variety of strategies and even choose between being a stealthy assassin, or an unstoppable dervish of death, depending on your upgrade choices.

The moral choices also seem to fit, since Corvo is a character who feels torn between his desire for revenge and his loyalty to the empire. The guards are loyal to whoever runs the empire, so every guard who tries to stop you is a potential future ally. On the other hand, he's pissed because they're all blaming him for a crime he didn't commit. My point is, playing as violent Corvo or pacifist Corvo felt in-character either way.
 

Rad Party God

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With my current playthrough of Thief Gold (and later 2 and 2X), I can confirm Yhatzee's sentiment about it, not about the giant boner that can slap everyone in a single room, but that it's easily one of the games with the most huge boner levels I've ever seen in any game.

Although Garret deffinitely isn't silent, although very quiet (being a thief and all that), he does speak and he has a great personality and that coming from a game from '98, where Quake 2, Half-Life and Unreal, heck, even System Shock 2 ('99, I know) were released and all had silent protagonists.

Personally, I'm still very interested in Dishonored only for being Thief meets Bioshock, I don't mind silent protagonists (even if Yahtzee says otherwise, I don't agree with 85% of what he says anyways) and I don't mind different endings.
 

UM536

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I'm disappointed. I wanted to see a review of x-com since he mentioned the FPS in that E-3 and at least at harder difficulties it's kinda like a tactical survival horror.
 

TRex22

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Its not the fact that there are multiple endings but that there are not enough endings and the ones there are, are generic, boring and linear in everyway. For such a hyped up game, it does not meet expectations.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Walter Byers said:
The key to making a silent protagonist work is giving the player tons of options to choose from even if the majority of those options have little to no effect on the game. It allows the player to create the character they want. Corvo didn't have that. I will agree this silent protagonist sucks. I'd say the same about Half Life to best honest.
I characterise him as a father-person. Have you played the game? If yes, note how he's with Emily.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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TRex22 said:
One last thing. (sorry perhaps some minor spoilers) At the end the one NPC (he was so generic he was not really a character) told me how disappointed in what I became (a serial killer) and that I should go f*** myself. He then shot a flare so everyone knew where I was. WTF? This is a STEALTH game that screws you if you are amoral. The killing animations are much more entertaining than the non-violent ones. Its really the only reason I killed almost everyone except a few targets (the non-violent option wa a worse fate for them tehee hee).
I think you missed the point: (stealth) you work hard and resist temptation to doom the city, so you do good. (killing) You slaughter everyone like a psyco and you feel fun and joy in various ways to kill a person, but at the same time you doom the city, so you do bad by, well, being bad. It's like that point Yahtzee brought in Spec Ops: when the killing is fun but you should feel ashamed.
 

jehk

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In Search of Username: said:
Yeah but they aren't are they? I can't think 'what would *I* do in this situation?' because there is no way I can empathise with someone who runs around stabbing people and using his magical powers in a steampunk world. That is not a situation I will ever be in. But maybe if the character had some kind of personality of their own I could at least understand their motivations.
Sorry quoting for me is messed up at work. Hopefully you see this...

I'll agree with you for this particular silent protagonist. Silent protagonists in general is a different story.
 

TRex22

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[/quote]
I think you missed the point: (stealth) you work hard and resist temptation to doom the city, so you do good. (killing) You slaughter everyone like a psyco and you feel fun and joy in various ways to kill a person, but at the same time you doom the city, so you do bad by, well, being bad. It's like that point Yahtzee brought in Spec Ops: when the killing is fun but you should feel ashamed.[/quote]
In spec-ops I did feel bad. This game annoyed me. The characters were generic and evil. If you read some of the stuff ingame, you see how awful the overseers are. The whole game felt like everyone was evil or sick and crazy. I know your actions affect the world but honestly the game did not make me care. I used stealth to kill everyone, not that I am socipathic or psychopathic, it was my revenge to the game. Also the game's logo was "Revenge solves everything" not the same message which the game tried and failed to portray to the player
 

Mr.Squishy

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In Search of Username said:
You were expecting personality in a game published by Bethesda? Come on, now.
I do have to say that I agree and am being quite verbose in doing so to avoid another terrifying run-in with the mods. Albeit, Fallout 3 and NV at least had one or two characters I could kind of remember...if I concentrate very hard...okay, I give up, the only one I can think of is Moira Brown, and that's one out of how many characters populating two separate wastelands?
Bethesda and Bioware/Obsidian/both of the aforementioned should team up sometime...
 

LobsterFeng

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Gonna have to agree with Yahtzee here. This game is good, but it left me disappointed. It really is missing something.

Also that Ben Kenobi analogy is the best one in a while.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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i have to agree with Yahtzee, silent protagonists do get a bit boring, Mario tends to get a bit uninteresting in games like super paper Mario where everyone can talk and is funny. and wario talks quite a bit and he is pretty interesting, and on my "never have played a bad game from this series " list.
you wanna know what game would be funny and interesting with a social moral choice system, pokemon. i like how persona 4 did it, though that just ended you up dating everything with a vagina and almost yosuke within a 10 mile radius.

but it would be interesting

do you want to help the kid get his Pokemon back from team (insert name here)
*team is hurt due to long ass journey to next town*
ehh...
 

Mortamus

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May 18, 2012
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I think the game kind of dropped the ball when they didn't really open up more to characters or the world around you. You just kinda have to accept it all and keep going rather than ask any kind of questions about the world or it's inhabitants. I want to immerse myself in a game and it's world, not just fall face first into it and no one explain it.
 

WanderingFool

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OuendanCyrus said:
I rather have a silent protagonist that someone who never shuts up, I always end up hating about 80% of voiced protagonists.
Than its suffice to say that people have differing opinions. 80% of all silent protagonists bore me. Even worse are the silent protagonists that everyone keeps talking to like they are actually talking back, its like im missing out on half the conversation.

OT: I agree with everything Yahtzee said, enjoyed Dishonored, but Jebus was it short. At that specific turning point, I though I had another several missions to go, but now, you only had 1 mission left and than it was over.
 

puff ball

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for me i got the distinct feeling that they didn't go into thinking they would have multiple endings but only decided to add them to justify using nonlethal take downs when the lethal ones are far more varied, useful, and fun. but hey i havent finished it yet what do i know.
 

shadowmagus

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Couple of things I want to point out, having beaten the game on a "good ending" and working on a "bad ending" playthrough.

1) Going back to the hideout did break the pacing pretty regularly. While I found enjoyment in going back after the Golden Cat mission, and I actually liked talking to the people and getting their reactions to my previous mission, sometimes it really did break the flow.

2) I like the "chaos level" mechanic because of what it did with the world. "Murder a lot of people? More guards and obstacles!" It would have really dodged the binary morale choice BS bullet if they had just changed the way the ending was handled. That said, I like how the world changes when you play it on a high chaos.

3) This is a good IP that I think needs a chance to develop and mature. I'd like to see another game that breaks away from the one city and expand on the world that I read about in all the books and notes scattered throughout the game. I'm really hoping to see some DLC that expands on the city itself right now.
 

cricket chirps

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Dear Mr. Croshaw,

I would really appreciate a written article about Dishonored from your perspective. I love how indepth and different your views are on some things in your articles and i would really enjoy reading of that level about dishonored/the things it could have done better to really stick out.

You always have crazy good ideas i end up agreeing with. Hopefully not because im a subconciously well trained fan, but because i genuinly think the same in regard to games.

Sincerely, a probably well trained/hypnotized/mind-controled fan.
 

lead sharp

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Loved the hell out of this. I enjoyed the lack of speech, I get sick of having a game force a personality onto a choice I want to make for reasons of my own. For example, there's a bit (Spoilers?) were you brand an overseer instead of killing him, thus causing him to be exiled and dishonoured (geddit?) and I actually thought this was harsher than just killing him. So I imagined myself all gritted teeth and evil sneer when branding and cold and quick when slitting his throat and somewhat a wuss when poisoning him. But in other games you'de get a line of dialogue saying something like 'I couldn't kill him, but at least this way he's gone' steering your emotions rather than letting you have some of your own.

I didn't find the characters all that robotic either, none of them where a barrel of laughs but I suppose being threatened by plague, zombies, combine rip offs, The Outsider and so on you wouldn't have much to giggle about.

It is a short (ish) game but with all the replay value I've found in it and the short loading times I've not been irritated by it like I can get with something like Skyrim that has you spend five minutes looking at a horse just to walk through a door.
 

MetallicaRulez0

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Wait wait wait... a Bethesda game with bland, boring, generic, stereotypical characters?!?

ALERT THE PRESS!
 

Marik Bentusi

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Yeah, the game has a lot of superficial elements because of which I should like it, and the combat with blinking can be pretty fluid and fun, but it seems rather hollow for some reason. I enjoy myself much more just playing Thief/BioShock/Half-Life separately. And maybe add a hint of Prototype to that mix, because the others don't have that fluid combat.
 

Marik Bentusi

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MetallicaRulez0 said:
Wait wait wait... a Bethesda game with bland, boring, generic, stereotypical characters?!?

ALERT THE PRESS!
Bethesda is the publisher, Arkane Studios orwhatstheirname were the devs. The characters aren't exactly stereotypes either, just boring.
 

AwesomeDave

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I wanted to love this game so much... I made it a nice dinner which we ate by candlelight, scattered rose petals in its bath and on the bed, we get under the covers and BAM!!!!! It sodomized me with even the thought of using lube. This game isn't the worst ever, but it's so mediocre i would almost rather it be bad, then it might stand out in my mind. The stealth was cool for about 20 minutes, then it got boring when i realized that nothing mattered in stealth except being behind a box and waiting for an enemy to turn around. Combine that with clunky controls and about 15hrs of gameplay, and you get a game that you are better off waiting for a GotY edition to buy. Way to get my hopes up and crush them again, Bethesda. =/

Captcha: ship-shape "The ship is in ship-shape shape." Joe in Some Like it Hot
 

karamazovnew

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I like the game. It has solid design and it offers a lot of freedom. Yes, you could play "good" but it gets boring quite fast. What I suggest is that you download a trainer and give yourself infinite runes and mana.... then set the whole world on fire. It becomes one of the most inventive slaughter games I've ever seen.
 

wolf thing

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i thought the game was great, it had a good setting, great game play and fairly good writting and voice acting. it has it problems, like the story is alittle dull because it doesnt take its time at the begging to set up a relationship with the empress daughter and has a week ending. the characters were alittle flat and you never get to see enough of the city outside of the infected area so you never really get sense of what is at stake and what has been lost. but i still really liked the game, and would recomned it to anyone. It would be great to have a sequal to exspand onb everything and flush out all the problem but sadly that never going to happen, because the deves wont to look good and difrent to other deve, but not truly understanding what sequal mean in the game industry. such a damn same.
 

MrDrProf

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ya know as I played through the game I kept having the nagging feeling that I wasn't having as much fun as I should have, and it took me a bit to figure out why. It was the stupid "moral choice" thing that kept the nagging feeling that I shouldn't kill all those guards, because the game would resent me for it. that and the fact that I'm a completionist and have to find everything I can find so I spend more time faffing about looking for coins than actually killing/not killing people. but having to find the combinations to safes was kinda fun
 

Paranoah

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The only silent protagonist i could connect to was freeman on the other hand i think its good that you can decide whoever you want to be i would have prefered talk options to be a dick though
 
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Mr.Squishy said:
In Search of Username said:
You were expecting personality in a game published by Bethesda? Come on, now.
I do have to say that I agree and am being quite verbose in doing so to avoid another terrifying run-in with the mods. Albeit, Fallout 3 and NV at least had one or two characters I could kind of remember...if I concentrate very hard...okay, I give up, the only one I can think of is Moira Brown, and that's one out of how many characters populating two separate wastelands?
Bethesda and Bioware/Obsidian/both of the aforementioned should team up sometime...
I'd say the setting in Fallout kind of had personality, but not the characters. The only Bethesda games I've really enjoyed, anyway.
 

Blueruler182

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I agree with the silent protagonist thing, but it's INCREDIBLY satisfying to go up to a heavily fortified area and reprogram one of their giant rocket turrets to attack the guards and just watch. Dear jebus was that fun.

Plus I got to act like Corvo was Dr. Doom.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Sad how many people gets their opinion changed just because of one critic. Even people who decided not to buy this game because of what he said...

To be fair it was an above average critic coming from him. I just disagree with the silent protagonist thing. When they give personality it usually sucks a lot, imo the game that did it better was banjo Kazzoie and Ezio from AC. I feel more imersed when my character doesnt talk.
 

demented

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I don't mind a moral choice system in a game, but when it offers you two paths and then scolds you for taking one, it becomes a problem. I hate when games force their morality on me.

Red Dead Redemption is one of the biggest offenders of this. It gave me a choice and I chose to be a dick. It then punished me for the rest of the game because of my decision.
 

Canadamus Prime

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I tend to assume that the protagonist's dialogue is always implied when you have a silent protagonist with dialogue options. IE, your "silent" protagonist does actually speak when you select a dialogue option, you just don't hear it because it'd be redundant. So instead you just hear the NPC's reaction to it.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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I actually commented on the whole silent protagonist thing on my own Let's Play. As much as I'm enjoying the game otherwise, that whole part felt absolutely contrived-

-the loyal bodyguard, well-known to many, immediately believed to be a traitor by almost everyone? Magic isn't an unknown thing in this setting; the idea of teleporting assassins might seem implausible, but people would believe Corvo somehow murdered the Empress and spirited her daughter away within the space of a minute and yet let himself be caught? Come on.
 

C117

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Lykosia said:
C117 said:
And unlike Yahtzee, I strived for the no-kill achievment from beginning to end, and almost thought I made it. I never killed anyone on the missions, I disposed of all my targets nonlethaly, and I even shot that duelist guy with a sleep dart in the noggin'. But when I finished, I didn't get the achievment.

And then it hit me. I had killed two individuals. In fact, it was the first two individuals I encountered in the whole game. It was in the tutorial, and the game basically said "waste their asses".

I felt pretty drained after that...
Those guys don't count. I got the clean hands achievement easily.
Key thing is not to help Granny nor Slackjaw in the sewers. Just steal the key and run. If you help either one, you end up killing the other.
You mean... it counts as a kill even if you choke her, and even if you get the "no enemies killed" award at the same time?
 

gorfias

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I got to see a youtube review of Thief II.


Dishonored looks a lot better. I think Yahtzee is having a nostalgia kaniption. To hear someone gloat, "in thief 2, you can break into a house!"... may have been very original back then, but looks old hat now.

Even after his review, I want this game. And unlike usual... I'll play the bad guy!
 

OuroborosChoked

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Well fuck. If anyone asks my opinion of this game now, they'll think I'm just repeating what Yahtzee said :\

It's like Thief mixed with Bioshock and it ends up being... "ehhh... okay". Very disappointed overall. Thief was engaging because every guard encounter was a sneaking puzzle. This game just didn't seem to grasp that.

It's too easy, there's no tension, it's WAY too easy to get rich and you don't need most of the gadgets anyway.

I didn't feel like the shadows hid me at all, either. In Thief, you could feel relatively safe in shadows... but in this, you may as well have been standing in plain sight for all the good they do. Some of the levels are in broad daylight, too! I mean, come on! Of course, it doesn't help that the guards have almost no peripheral vision anyway...

And the context-sensitive controls don't always work. I can't tell you how many times I tried to choke out a guard only to block because I shifted slightly and the context HUD display disappeared!

Anyway, I believe I'm right near the end of the game... but could anyone tell me if I'm going to find out anything more about Dowd (Doud?) or the other teleporting assassins? Just yes or no would do. No spoilers, please!

Gorfias said:
Dishonored looks a lot better. I think Yahtzee is having a nostalgia kaniption. To hear someone gloat, "in thief 2, you can break into a house!"... may have been very original back then, but looks old hat now.
He's not having a nostalgia conniption. The Thief games are really that good. And it's not about breaking into houses. That's not what makes Thief great. Play it... you'll understand. There haven't been any other games like it. But don't bother with Deadly Shadows. It wasn't made by the same team... and it suffers for it.

If anything, Thief gets newer over time. As games get less and less like it, it becomes more original.
 

Smithburg

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Personally I'm just sick of silent protagonists. It's not a matter of immersion because people do not react the same way to a silent protagonist as they do to a talking one, and personally I find it much harder to associate with a nontalking protagonist than a talking one as I enjoy talking to people. Generally not talking and just ignoring people like they do in games when you don't speak would be counterproductive as well.
 

Kyr Knightbane

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The thing with Dishonored is you can use the Heart tool and point it at guards and hear more about their personal lives.

"That one rescued a dog and feeds her every night"
Ok, blade stayed

"He betrays his friends to the watch and spies on them"
Ok, i'm tranquilizing him and leaving his corpse for the rats
 

knox140

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Just bought the game.. excited to play it, it looks awesome, and I'd be happy to pay for DLC to make up for the length if the game is good enough. What's everyone else's views on it?
 

PunkRex

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IT HAS A MORALITY SYSTEM?!
Did not know this...

Also, im seriously coincidering buying Mogworlds audio book, having Yahtzee drone into my ears for 10+ hours seems enjoyable to me... for some twisted reason.
 

blackrave

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I simply need to ask
Was Thief2 THAT good?
Because it seems that Yahtzee can't shut up about it
So after 1 year of listening I feel interest for Thief2 imprinted into my brain
Who knows another year or two and maybe I will consider playing Silent Hill 2
 

llubtoille

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I don't think the protagonist needed to be voiced, but having general dialogue options would have been nice,
Seemed strange going around and clicking on people, to have them talk 'at' you, rather than an actual conversation.

I can understand the game trying to dissuade you against the mass murder of its civilian and the 'only doing my job' guards population,
but apparently slaying the homicidal zombies, psychopathic zealots and ninja hitmen increases the cities chaos? seems like it would do the opposite XD

Despite that however I found the game to be very good.
Took me nearly 22 hours to complete, by which time I'd had enough.
The ending level felt rushed / forced, but by then I was rushing to finish it, so didn't mind.
 

duchaked

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yeah silent protagonists are starting to annoy me, but so are the irritating voiced ones too so it's something devs should focus on getting right (characterization in general with the story)

since everyone is pointing out how short it is I'll Redbox it and check it out that way lol
 

Smertnik

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Yeah, I found the choice to use a silent protagonist rather bizarre as well, it's one of the few gripes I have with the game, together with the very weak story. But then I don't get the concept in general, apart from those cases when you have too much dialogue and too little dosh to have it voiced.
 

Tallim

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IamShmgeggy said:
The thing with Dishonored is you can use the Heart tool and point it at guards and hear more about their personal lives.

"That one rescued a dog and feeds her every night"
Ok, blade stayed

"He betrays his friends to the watch and spies on them"
Ok, i'm tranquilizing him and leaving his corpse for the rats
They should have tied the chaos into that. Kill someone innocent then you get a chaos increase. Kill someone who does all the nasty stuff then you are cleansing the town of the nasty elements.

I liked the game overall but it was a stealth game where screwing up left you as still being a superpowered killing machine to which normal guards don't have much of a chance. There are hiccups along the way and they do try and mix it up but not hard to sidestep those problems.

And it's always annoying when most of the fun stuff is for killing when there are two ways to play.
 

6SteW6

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Wow I came in here expecting a Driver: San Fran esque review and was left dissapointed. I though Yahtzee would like this, I have still to try it though I am still playing Xcom to death, can't wait to see what he says bout that one!
 

karamazovnew

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Gorfias said:
I got to see a youtube review of Thief II. Dishonored looks a lot better. I think Yahtzee is having a nostalgia kaniption. To hear someone gloat, "in thief 2, you can break into a house!"... may have been very original back then, but looks old hat now.
Don't judge a game by its 12 year old graphics. Thief 2 really was the greatest stealth game ever made. But it might be too slow paced at times. If you do like Dishonored, despite the thumbs down from a previous comment, you should give Thief 3 a try. I personally liked it more than the second, it has decent graphics, superb story and some great levels. The levels are more compact and it has a "haunted" theme which makes you feel very vulnerable.
 

Plate-Rogue812

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One thing I feel I should point out is that the different endings in Dishonored aren't based on moral choice or even not killing people. It's really a reward system for the stealth aspect. I did a play through as an experiment where I killed EVERYONE, but I just didn't get caught and I was rewarded with the good ending. So it seems like the two endings are there to punish the swashbuckling side of things while rewarding the silent assassination approach.
As far as the game itself goes I liked it simply for the fact that it gives you what it promises, the ability to silently and creatively sneak up and kill people, which is more than I can say for the Assassin's creed series which is characterized by perhaps the loudest and most easily recognizable assassins I have ever even heard of. I still remember that one scene where Ezio stabs a guy seven times while screaming his name in front of a crowd of witnesses.
 

Something Amyss

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OuendanCyrus said:
I rather have a silent protagonist that someone who never shuts up, I always end up hating about 80% of voiced protagonists.
I usually turn the volume down anyway. That being said, I don't really want to project myself on my character, either.

Well, except in pro wrestling games, because it's a laugh my friends and I have had since like, second grade.
 

OuroborosChoked

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karamazovnew said:
Gorfias said:
I got to see a youtube review of Thief II. Dishonored looks a lot better. I think Yahtzee is having a nostalgia kaniption. To hear someone gloat, "in thief 2, you can break into a house!"... may have been very original back then, but looks old hat now.
Don't judge a game by its 12 year old graphics. Thief 2 really was the greatest stealth game ever made. But it might be too slow paced at times. If you do like Dishonored, despite the thumbs down from a previous comment, you should give Thief 3 a try. I personally liked it more than the second, it has decent graphics, superb story and some great levels. The levels are more compact and it has a "haunted" theme which makes you feel very vulnerable.
Deadly Shadows (it is NOT Thief 3) shat all over the Keepers and ruined the whole atmosphere of the games. They made it so it was Hammerites vs. Pagans... which it was... sort of... but not openly so. The Pagans weren't city dwellers... nor were they public. Paganism in the first two games was a fringe thing... only done in secret or out in the wild. Deadly Shadows put them right in town.

Conversely, the Hammerites weren't thugs or the Inquisition. They did have some peacekeeping duties, but most of that was handled by the City Watch by the Thief 2, as they were falling out of favor.

Finally, the Keepers were never -- I repeat, NEVER -- actors: they were only observers. Garrett got fed up with that (and selfish)... which is why he left. His unique combination of skills then put him in a position to influence things... and the Keepers only influenced him three times (saving his life in the first game, telling him of a prophecy of the Metal Age, and one last time before the last level in the second) because he was the "brethren and betrayer"... the prophesied one who would end up in the middle of everything that happens.

Yeah, so... Deadly Shadows is kind of a pet peeve of mine. I want to like it, but I just can't...
 

cerebus23

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Scorpid said:
Fallout 2 didn't have a binary moral choice system and it is the greatest RPG I've ever played... but perhaps I have a bias.
Either way I agree I hate the silent protagonist because creating a character that has zero personality of his own is only frustrating to me, (which isn't the same as a shitty personality such as Nathan Drake) because when a NPC tells me to go fetch/kill/rescue something or someone I want to be able to at least know that PC isn't just a bloody robot that functions only to please those that gives it orders. Silent protagonist crutch that developers use only seems like a excuse to me for developers to not have to invest into having to make sure that PC's personality is consistent and logical when compared to the crazy things they'll be doing for the sake of advancing the game.
Props my favorite rpg of all time also.

Dishonored is probably a victim to its own hype, really this is supposed to be the greatest thing ever? well that is a pretty damn high bar to set. and the graphics are rather average at best.
 

IamLEAM1983

Neloth's got swag.
Aug 22, 2011
2,581
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Yeah, that pretty much defines what I've been getting out of the game, too.

IGN, Gametrailers et al.: "FUUUUU, NERDGASM, THIS GAME SO GUUUUUD! BAI NAO! BAINAOBAINAOBAINAO!"

Me: *buys into the hype, purchases it, plays for half an hour, goes "Meh", turns the game off*

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Muddy Textures Galore. No, GT, that's not a "painterly" look, that's the "Oh, shit, the milestone's getting close and we're not done!" art school. A painterly look does not necessarily excuse low-res textures, and Dishonoured is chock-full of badly conceived visual work.

Oh, the design's there, the imagination's there - but Victor Antonov dropped the ball in terms of reviewing texture quality. This is 2012, Arkane. I don't want to feel like I'm playing a fancypants Half-Life 2 mod with first-retail-year-quality textures.

And I spell "Dishonoured" with a U because I'm Canadian. Chyeah.
 

Jared Hansen

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Apr 11, 2012
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Personally I don't think people would complain about the moral choice system if the game didn't tell you about it. In-universe it's perfectly logical - more dead bodies means more rats and more plague, and more dead guards and dead nobles means that the watch use more and more resources to bring you down. It fits in with the theme of the game - death begets more death.

Also, it's nowhere near as harsh as people suspect. I got the good ending, but I absolutely went to town on the Whaler Assassins Guild. I killed 20 dudes in that mission, because I felt they deserved to bloody die. In fact, I just played through the game how I would in that scenario and I was happy with how it turned out.

I disagree with the characters as well - I thought they were reasonably rounded. It's just with no dialogue choices you don't learn much about them face-to-face - listen to their audio recordings and read their letters and diaries to get the interesting stuff. That said, Hiram Burrows has to be the most astonishingly under-written villain of all time.

It IS pretty short, though. That and the lack of creative options for not-killing guards are the two fairly big bugbears of the game. Piero couldn't give me some knockout gas? A net? A fucking club?
 

DarkhoIlow

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Hm,I didn't expect this game to be disappointing for him.Could of saw that coming,but I'm here for the entertainement not his "reviews" anyway.

With that said,I already played it two times and enjoyed both play styles.It was very satisfying going the "high chaos" path after trying to finish it on a "low chaos" rating.
 

Plate-Rogue812

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Mar 6, 2012
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One of the things I notice while reading through the postings about this review is that a lot of people still seem to be missing the point of Croshaw's videos. His reviews never come with a score because he prefers to nitpick at areas of the game he subjectively found lacking in his own play through and then lets people make their own decision about whether to buy the game or not. Many negative or ambivalent forum posts appear to be from people who had their opinions of the game after playing it altered by watching the review. If you liked it, stick to your guns and don't be ashamed to play a game because of the reception it receives.
On the subject of the comparison to Thief II, I don't really think the argument holds up under scrutiny. For all of its free moving assassination bollocks Dishonored is a very linear game, which is good. The linearity sets it apart from the Thief series and gives it one major leg up if you really must measure one against the other: Focus. In Dishonored you have a very clear focus, you know your target's face and you have a good idea of your endgame. Thief II always seemed to drag on a bit, not due to how methodical you had to be to set up knockouts and kills, but because the whole experience had a sense of aimlessness to it. I frequently picked over every inch of a building in Thief II and got lost at least once before I managed to bump into an objective. The stealth aspect of Dishonored is in some ways equal to Thief, though it does exchange some aspects for others. Enemies have narrow cones of vision and rarely look upwards, but have a more realistic ability to see in the dark and through shadows. To make up for this Dishonored has a better system of movement which allows climbing, sliding, and blinking in a way that cleverly follows Yahtzee's prescription for successful first person platforming.
 

Erttheking

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Is it just me or does the overall opinion of a game on this website seem to drop after Yahtzee reviews it.
 

Katya Topolkaraeva

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Kinda felt like you were reaching a bit on some of those criticisms frankly. The random guards and such say some rather nice things and are def. not cardboard cut out evil. The heading back to home base was also a lot less annoying then it is in many games and I thought it was done rather well (flow wise). You could, you know, compliment a game sometimes... just a little. crazy thought i know.
 

Aptspire

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Mar 13, 2008
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Dishonored ad before dishonored review? I'm okay with this :D
OT: I liked this game, because it has been a while since we've had a game like this :)
 

marcapasso

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Nov 3, 2011
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I don't really understand what people are criticizing about this game.
I love it.
I tried to follow the "good ending" path killing minimal number of persons(i only killed persons that the heart make me feel that they are bad) until the part off the assassins when i unleashed my wrath and killed everyone on that level using every single power i had and even so i got the good ending.
But sincerely he didn't talk about the heart? Love that "gadget" that tell you the characters inner personality and thoughts. Make you fell more that dishonored is really set on a corrupted and sad world.
 

marcapasso

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Nov 3, 2011
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Jared Hansen said:
Personally I don't think people would complain about the moral choice system if the game didn't tell you about it. In-universe it's perfectly logical - more dead bodies means more rats and more plague, and more dead guards and dead nobles means that the watch use more and more resources to bring you down. It fits in with the theme of the game - death begets more death.
I agree completely with you, people expected to kill every single character and get a good ending? Deaths bring only bad things not goods ones.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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This is by far the most accurate review of this game that I have come across.

It's not that it's bad, it's just that it is too easy for me. Maybe it is because I have been playing Thief for over a decade, but I had NO issues getting through. In addition, the graphics look like Bioshock on the lowest settings. I really hope there is a hi-rez patch, official or not, coming in.

The silent protagonist thing did kind of piss me off. There was NO reason for that.
 

Darth_Payn

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Aug 5, 2009
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Yahtzee, I'm surprised you didn't try to compare DisHONOURED (there, happy?) to Assassin's Creed! They both have the runny-jumpy-climby-stabby-in-an-open-world fun you like, especially since A'sC III ads replaced Dishonoured's before the videos (and thank Christ for that!) . But you convinced me to stick to that series becauseI can't wrap my head around a silent protagonist and amoral choice system in THE SAME GAME. While guys like Altair, Ezio, Desmond, and now Connor are relative chatterboxes, the stuff they say reveals their intentions and character in context of the world around them. They may start out taking orders from someone else, but they don't quietly obey all the time; sometimes they raise a big stink out of it.
If a game must have multiple endings based on player choices, at least have the player's character talk, because the events of the game's story is affected by the player's thoughts AND actions. Most recent good example is Deus Ex:Human Revolution, where you can make Adam sound sarcastic and hilarious when talking to sidequest NPC's. Interestingly, that game prefers you to sneak around enemies or just knock them out by giving you more XP, but you're not penalized harshly for killing. And yes, I remember that
you literally choose the game's ending by pushing one of 4 buttons in the last room after the final boss.
But it's still better executed than how you guys described Dishonored.
 

ThunderCavalier

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I'm a bit concerned now. I hadn't picked up Dishonored yet, but the fact that people are ALREADY complaining about the ending either shows people have no life, people play through games like these way too fast, or this game is not very long.

A shame, too, because Dishonored looked like a kickass game. I might still pick it up, since I'm a sucker for most Bethesda games, but I'm not so hyped about it now after hearing Yahtzee basically spoil the whole moral ending thing.

... I mean seriously, guys? You're an assassin with magical-uber powers. Do you expect us NOT to kill someone?
 

JC123

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Apr 10, 2008
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With the comments about "Bleep bloop" NPC voicing and "Hiring Patrick Stewart to read your homework" I have to wonder if Yahtzee is aware of the voice talent [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2322244/] in this game.
 

Murmillos

Silly Deerthing
Feb 13, 2011
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The morality of Dishonored .. is well, if you kill nearly every damn guard in the game, you are going to get an evil ending. If you kill only 1-4 guys a mission, including the target, you are still going to get the good ending.

Its not like, kill one guy and you get the "evil mass murder ending"... the morality expects and even allows you for a few kills; but if you go on a slaughter fest on every rank and file minion, what the hell did you expect. Rainbows and kittens?
 

FallenMessiah88

So fucking thrilled to be here!
Jan 8, 2010
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I think I'll try this game just for the art style. I don't know why I'm so willing to forgive a game for all it's faults if the art style is good. That's just how I roll I guess.
 

dystopiaINC

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BrionJames said:
The morality thing did kind of irritate me. When the trailers first popped up on the internet, it shows all kind of stabby fun. Then the game came out and told me that it was "dark" for me to kill anyone. Fuck that, I understand that they were trying to point out the dangers of wrath and vengeance, but wasn't that what the game's premise is based on. Plus, by not having Corvo talk, we don't know if he actually wants revenge or is just some Jason Vorhees psychopath who lost his mind after his lover was killed in front of him. I did like this game, but it definitely needs some work. For now I guess I'll just have to stick with some good 'old fashioned Metal Gear Solid for my stealth needs.
Lol not only did his lover get murdered in front of him,
the worlds version of god gave him Her heart Magically animated with her soul trapped inside.

Wow just wow. still I loved the game probably because i had no prior expectations about it and i just rented it for a few days. went the stabby fun route and it wasn't even a terrible ending.

I Loved running straight through the level, only blinking around and hiding to recover when the heat got to bad. still nothing was more fun than having my cover blown and running for the target with several guards in hot pursuit only blinking when a guard showed up in front of me, i would blink to him and kill him real quick and keep running, hit my target fast and hard then turn around and slow time it up and kill my pursuers. brutal fast and fun. loved it.
 

Vigormortis

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thisbymaster said:
The environment gave me a Half-life 2 feel.
That's likely because much of the games environments and art-assets were done by Viktor Antonov. One of the key art-leads and visual designers on Half Life 2.
 

Barciad

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Apr 23, 2008
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Could we have a still of the 'Noam Chomsky' bit?
I would like to get that as my desktop wallpaper.
 

Blood Brain Barrier

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It amazes me you all need Yahtzee to tell you this game sucks. Prior threads about Dishonored were unmitigated fawning admiration, and only now some criticism finally comes out.
 

Nazulu

They will not take our Fluids
Jun 5, 2008
6,242
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OuendanCyrus said:
I rather have a silent protagonist than someone who never shuts up, I always end up hating about 80% of voiced protagonists.
Damn, I didn't expect to be ninja'd. Most of the time I just find characters have poor dialogues, or average, but then it doesn't make that much of a difference.

I guess it depends on what type of game you put the silent protaginist in though. Yahzee made a good point that it works against them when they could solve issues faster by talking.
 

Nazulu

They will not take our Fluids
Jun 5, 2008
6,242
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Blood Brain Barrier said:
It amazes me you all need Yahtzee to tell you this game sucks. Prior threads about Dishonored were unmitigated fawning admiration, and only now some criticism finally comes out.
Get of your high horse. I always find criticism in all threads, and even then some people either ignore the game or attack Bethesda directly.
 

Razorback0z

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Feb 10, 2009
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Wow, relatively speaking that was a glowing endorsement. Im still waiting for the bargain bin.
 

VeneratedWulfen93

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Oct 3, 2011
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Play through DIshonored enough and you'll find it changes quite alot depending on the actions taken. I have finished it once and my bro has finished it twice. Each of us had a completely differant endgame confrontation. Seriously it was stupid how differant it was and I love it becsuse now I want to find out how he did that.

Not listing the changes unless requested.
 

RockyMotion

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Oct 28, 2010
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I liked the morality system in inFamous and Mass Effect but in Dishonored it's a complete buzzkill. It's like the game is saying: "Here, have this awesome arsenal of brutal gadgets and abilities, but don't you dare using them! If you want the best ending, just use these two boring non-lethal methods and let the awesome deadly weapons rust in your inventory!"

It doesn't make sense having a game with such an addictive variety of killing methods and then punishing the player for trying them out. It's like giving a kid a box of toys and only allowing him to play with the most boring one.
 

Lykosia_v1legacy

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C117 said:
Lykosia said:
C117 said:
And unlike Yahtzee, I strived for the no-kill achievment from beginning to end, and almost thought I made it. I never killed anyone on the missions, I disposed of all my targets nonlethaly, and I even shot that duelist guy with a sleep dart in the noggin'. But when I finished, I didn't get the achievment.

And then it hit me. I had killed two individuals. In fact, it was the first two individuals I encountered in the whole game. It was in the tutorial, and the game basically said "waste their asses".

I felt pretty drained after that...
Those guys don't count. I got the clean hands achievement easily.
Key thing is not to help Granny nor Slackjaw in the sewers. Just steal the key and run. If you help either one, you end up killing the other.
You mean... it counts as a kill even if you choke her, and even if you get the "no enemies killed" award at the same time?
That is what I've been told. I didn't even try to help either one. I just took the key and ran.
 

C117

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Lykosia said:
C117 said:
Lykosia said:
C117 said:
And unlike Yahtzee, I strived for the no-kill achievment from beginning to end, and almost thought I made it. I never killed anyone on the missions, I disposed of all my targets nonlethaly, and I even shot that duelist guy with a sleep dart in the noggin'. But when I finished, I didn't get the achievment.

And then it hit me. I had killed two individuals. In fact, it was the first two individuals I encountered in the whole game. It was in the tutorial, and the game basically said "waste their asses".

I felt pretty drained after that...
Those guys don't count. I got the clean hands achievement easily.
Key thing is not to help Granny nor Slackjaw in the sewers. Just steal the key and run. If you help either one, you end up killing the other.
You mean... it counts as a kill even if you choke her, and even if you get the "no enemies killed" award at the same time?
That is what I've been told. I didn't even try to help either one. I just took the key and ran.
I see. Thank you for the tip, I will have to try that out.
 

Plate-Rogue812

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Mar 6, 2012
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If you stop time, blink into a crowd of enemies, stick a springrazor to someone's back and blink out again before your time stop ends and you're detected it counts as a stealth kill and doesn't add to your chaos level. The gun and grenade/sticky grenade as well as incendiary bolts are the only weapons you're strictly prohibited from using to get the good ending because of the level of screaming and, or explosions that they create. Hacking security systems instead of turning them off is also not encouraged because guards will know someone's been touching their stuff. The "chaos" system is more of a reference to the STYLE of your kills rather than killing versus nonlethal.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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disgruntledgamer said:
OuendanCyrus said:
I rather have a silent protagonist that someone who never shuts up, I always end up hating about 80% of voiced protagonists.
A protagonists with a Bad voice actor and script is going to be worse than a silent protagonist, but a Good voice actor with a good script or even a mediocre script will out shine a silent protagonist 6 ways from Sunday.

The trick is getting that Good voice actor and script.
Except the moment you commit to a voice-acted protagonist, you just cut the dialogue that protagonist will have by 90%, because paying for actors and recording studios is more expensive than forcing Writer Drone 17 to do endless hours of overtime.

Look at Dragon Age 1 vs Dragon Age 2, more than anything else the change in the dialogue system was what made the sequel feel like Fantasy Mass Effect.

Voice acting might be great and fun and immersive, but the tradeoffs aren't worth it; you can't impose your own concept on the character as easily, less options are available to you during conversations, and there's a fairly good chance that whichever actor they hired to do the job is either shit or just grates on your nerves for whatever reason.

Maybe when Text to Speech software has evolved to the point it can convincingly imitate a human voice without sounding like a robocall a vocal protagonist will be worthwhile, but until then seeing "fully-voiced main character!" on the box/reviews will make me less likely to buy, not more.
 

scorptatious

The Resident Team ICO Fanboy
May 14, 2009
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Scorpid said:
Fallout 2 didn't have a binary moral choice system and it is the greatest RPG I've ever played... but perhaps I have a bias.
Either way I agree I hate the silent protagonist because creating a character that has zero personality of his own is only frustrating to me, (which isn't the same as a shitty personality such as Nathan Drake) because when a NPC tells me to go fetch/kill/rescue something or someone I want to be able to at least know that PC isn't just a bloody robot that functions only to please those that gives it orders. Silent protagonist crutch that developers use only seems like a excuse to me for developers to not have to invest into having to make sure that PC's personality is consistent and logical when compared to the crazy things they'll be doing for the sake of advancing the game.
LOL, I'm actually playing through Fallout 2 again at the moment. :p

OT: I don't mind playing as a silent protagonist myself. Although I can understand why most people wouldn't.

Also, to answer your question Yahtzee: why do you all insist on adding the letter "u" to honor? :p
 

Jack Rascal

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TRex22 said:
One last thing. (sorry perhaps some minor spoilers) At the end the one NPC (he was so generic he was not really a character) told me how disappointed in what I became (a serial killer) and that I should go f*** myself. He then shot a flare so everyone knew where I was.
Ah, poor Sam. In my first playthrough I killed him. For giving away my position, he deserved death. Left him with a bolt in his head, floating in his little boat.

OT: I like the game. Sure, it was short, but I'm enjoying trying different approaches. If the game was long I don't think i would have the energy to try different methods or see all the endings. My first playthrough was 'chaos', I wanted to be enraged Corvo who only wished death on everyone. Now I'm trying ghost. Turns out it's not as easy as I thought, especially since I have almost an obsessive tendency to find, collect and loot everything. Also, damn you mice! I did not leave the guards there so you could have a feast.

In this game, I find the silent protagonist to be the best choice because the entire game is in first person perspective. Voice acting, I think, is more suited to third person. Ezio in AC for example, I feel like I'm following his story. I can see him on screen and interact in cutscenes all the time. But in Dishonored, it's more like I'm the main character and I make the choices on how to behave. I also don't see the point of having a voice when I have multiple answers to pick from. The character would only read the line I just read and chose myself. I think that would make Corvo feel more like robot who only repeats lines and doesn't have a personality.

And I would love if Arcane could make another game set in the same world. Doesn't have to be a sequel in any way, I just like the world and gameplay.
 

taltamir

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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Binary moral choice goes up there with QTEs and anything from Japan not named Silent Hill in the things Yahtzee hates. That doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for the developers. Guess they might actually need to innovate.
He hates it because its made out of pure stupidity congealed into physical matter.
This moral choice system ruined dishonored for me and I quit playing fairly early on because of it.
 

synobal

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Yahtzee hit my main complaints with this game, my biggest complaint was the dialog and story though, it was just crap.
 

predatorpulse7

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blackrave said:
I simply need to ask
Was Thief2 THAT good?
Because it seems that Yahtzee can't shut up about it
Thief 2 is the GOLD standard for the sneak genre. You cannot say you played stealth if you didn't play the Thief series. It makes almost everything else in the sneak'em up genre look like a joke. Why? Insanely good atmosphere, a likeable but mysterious protagonist(not a supernatural badass with powers, just a guy that wants to get payed), a world that feel alive and gameplay that is awesome, especially if you play on expert.

Almost every guard can become a challenge, especially if decide to ghost a level(no knockouts, no kills, just steal s**t and hide). Those that played Thief 2(and even 1 and 3) know just how great these games are and that's because they do stealth well and most important of all, NO HANDHOLDING FOR THE PLAYER. Like that Razorfist video above says, when you start Thief 2 there is no flashback to let you know what happened in Thief 1. Want to find out? Look it up online, or better yet, play Thief 1. There is no magical radar to let you know where enemies are or where they are facing. You have to rely on your sight, ears(in what other game do you need to lean against a wall/door to hear how far guards are?) and have the patience to learn the guards patrol rounds.

The Thief series(but especially Thief 2) is such a well rounded product that it has basically spawned a nearly ideal formula for stealth. The only thing you can hold against this series is the subpar graphics(even for its time) and maybe some of the supernatural elements(zombies,haunts and such) that came in the first game. As I said before, the formula is so good that fans of the game made another game based on that very same formula, called Shadows of the Metal Age and it is so good that at times it approaches the original. Shadows of the Metal Age beats most so called stealth games released by major developers even though it's made my amateurs and it does so because its base is such an astounding game like Thief 2.

I could go on for days praising this series but I'll leave you with this thought - If you consider yourself a fan of stealth, the Thief series is a MUST. Play Thief and you'll laugh at other attempts at stealth.
 

LiquidCloud

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Sep 28, 2012
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Astro said:
I'm surprised people are saying it's the best stealth game in 10+ years, even Thief 3 was better, (and ahem, Blood Money).
people who are saying this is the best stealth game in 10 years havent played a stealth game in 10 years
 

Fursnake

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Jun 18, 2009
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Good review, I was a bit disappointed by some of the same things Yahtzee was. Decent enough game, but it should have been $30 or $40. I wish I had thought of playing two simultaneous games, one good and one bad playthrough.
 

grey_space

Magnetic Mutant
Apr 16, 2012
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I played through it once as supernice guy. I too would have liked a 'greyer' moral option as well as the typical dark/lightside choices.

My main issue? it was too short and I didn't feel like I got my full value for money.

I might go for another, more evil playthrough but at the moment I'm wishing I waited for Dishonored to go down in price and bought xcom instead.
 

Rastien

Pro Misinformationalist
Jun 22, 2011
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Copper Zen said:
"because I'm the bell end."

It's a good thing that I have Urban Dictionary on my Google Favorites, otherwise I wouldn't get half the slang being slung about these days.

Yahtzee was faster paced on this episode than most. Maybe it's because I haven't had my requisite two pots of morning coffee yet but I kept missing things.
It's i, think old? i remember since i was at least 6 bell end being slung around. English slang :) for the end of a males well... ^^
 

Basement Cat

Keeping the Peace is Relaxing
Jul 26, 2012
2,379
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Rastien said:
Copper Zen said:
"because I'm the bell end."

It's a good thing that I have Urban Dictionary on my Google Favorites, otherwise I wouldn't get half the slang being slung about these days.

Yahtzee was faster paced on this episode than most. Maybe it's because I haven't had my requisite two pots of morning coffee yet but I kept missing things.
It's i, think old? i remember since i was at least 6 bell end being slung around. English slang :) for the end of a males well... ^^
Copy that. It's an English term. That explains it.
 

Stepan_RUS'

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Oct 26, 2012
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I just tried to watch this video, however this man speaks very fast. It is likely because my spoken english is not perfect, but i cannot understand what this man is talking about?
 

Sir Shockwave

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Jul 4, 2011
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Honestly, I was looking forward to Dishonored and I didn't even get as far as Yahtzee before turning it off out of complete boredom.

As Yahtzee points out, gameplay wise it's just a very bad mismash of various games that did all this and better (though his comments that it compares to Thief are slightly surprising - the game in my mind it plagiarized it's mechanics from the most was Deus Ex: Human Revolution), combined with a predictable, boring and trite story...yeah.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
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Yahtzee pretty much echoed my thoughts about part of this... the moral choice system. One of the reasons why I pretty much stopped messing with it and feel I wasted my money is because to play as a good guy, you pretty much have to neglect 90% of the tools the game gives you. Your pretty much handed a bunch of toys and then told you'll be punished if you play with them. Of course it's also true that if you take the "stealth, meh" approach and just kill everyone and everything in your way, the game becomes a heck of a lot easier, and perhaps more realistic given the overall situation and the supposed capabilities of our protaganist.

I generally get the whole "killing is wrong" bit, but it fits in some cases, and not in others. I don't think it really fit in with this game, especially given the dark "Revenge Solves Everything" tagline. I'm supposed to be some scary steampunk "Count Of Monty Cristo", the story shouldn't have a bad ending if I refuse to basically pretend I'm Batman and refuse to kill anyone. Batman has his own games, and the non-lethal aspects of things work in those games because they were designed for it. Nobody designed 47 awesome ways to kill into "Arkham Ciy" and then punished you for using them, instead they decided "Batman doesn't kill, and we don't want him to in this game" and kept to that theme through the design and what tools and moves they give you, making things substantially more "organic" so to speak, I never felt like I was being forced to hold back the way I do in Dishonored.
 

Edl01

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I just ignored the moral choice system, it doesn't affect gameplay in any way so I don't see the problem with the game having one to slightly alter the ending. In one mission I would go through it stealthily making sure not to get sited by a single guard and the next night when I was in a slightly worse mood I ran in with guns ablazing and didn't leave a single man/woman/guard alive until I reached the final check point, I mean it's not like Infamous were if you don't go 100% good or 100% evil you get powers locked from you or something.
 

DolorousEdd

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Sep 25, 2010
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The warm, generous reception of this game by RPS got me to buy it for the full price, and now I don't even particularly bother completing it. A luxurious production they called it. Just because it has a few solid designs. It's always the same. Shouldn't buy any games at all, ever. Except if they're called Stalker, are still one of the best shooters or first person games ever, and cost less than 10?/$.

(But I make the full stealth course of course, or else there would be no point in playing this game. Don't care for this complaint. Some objectives should only be accessible in a specific approach, what else. Doesn't matter if I sometimes would like to kill everybody. I have a short time of fun with this and just reload. No challenge otherwise.)
 

conmag9

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Aug 4, 2008
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Lykosia said:
C117 said:
Lykosia said:
C117 said:
And unlike Yahtzee, I strived for the no-kill achievment from beginning to end, and almost thought I made it. I never killed anyone on the missions, I disposed of all my targets nonlethaly, and I even shot that duelist guy with a sleep dart in the noggin'. But when I finished, I didn't get the achievment.

And then it hit me. I had killed two individuals. In fact, it was the first two individuals I encountered in the whole game. It was in the tutorial, and the game basically said "waste their asses".

I felt pretty drained after that...
Those guys don't count. I got the clean hands achievement easily.
Key thing is not to help Granny nor Slackjaw in the sewers. Just steal the key and run. If you help either one, you end up killing the other.
You mean... it counts as a kill even if you choke her, and even if you get the "no enemies killed" award at the same time?
That is what I've been told. I didn't even try to help either one. I just took the key and ran.
I can confirm that one. I was surprised and annoyed when my perfect record was tarnished. I blew up her phylactery-thingy (cameo, I think it was called?) and then hit her with a sleep dart. She was confirmed unconscious and I left with a spring in my step. Then my end of mission summery didn't have the "don't kill anybody" checked.

Ah well. Slackjaw might be a crimelord, but at least I didn't leave him to that.


Anyway, I loved the game. I took it in discrete chunks to avoid worrying about its length and enjoyed it. My only real complaint was the lack of mana regeneration. I restrained myself from using much of my magic (until I thought the game was coming to a close when I let loose with it) out of fear that I'd run out (Spirit Water helped, but honestly, I shouldn't have to rely on randomly generated bone charms and having to find sinks). I can understand balance issue if you can just time stop all the time, but maybe the regen could be slowed in combat or something?
 

Extragorey

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Dec 24, 2010
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DVS BSTrD said:
Even though I love this game, I get what Yahtzee's saying. Not being able to talk does tend to...

*puts on sunglasses*

...take U out of the experience
Genius. Simply genius.

Anyway, I personally loved the game - the binary moral choice system (or rather, the "kill-people-or-get-the-good-ending" system) is part of what makes it so good.
I mean, it's obviously pretty logical that if you kill everyone you're going to get a pretty miserable ending, but making the killing so satisfying is a great way of tempting the player to those "evil" decisions that otherwise would rarely be touched by most gamers. Because in reality, most gamers tend to go the light/paragon/good path in games.
And let's face it, in real life, the thing about being evil - doing anything morally frowned upon - is that it is actually very tempting a lot of the time, because it's easier. No, I don't mean literally killing people - Dishonored's binary choice system is exaggerated much like its art style - but simple things like being polite instead of rude to random strangers. Everyone ultimately wants to be polite (I would hope), and yet so many people are senselessly rude.
What I'm saying is that Dishonored provides a realistic parallel to real-life morality - that parallel is obviously exaggerated, but it still represents reality on some level.

On a final note, it could be argued that the game makes a statement about absolute morality - something that is very alien to our modern sensibilities. That is to say, killing = wrong, nonlethal = good. Well, morality does in fact contain absolutes - it's not as subjective as many like to believe. There's numerous papers written on this, so I won't reiterate the argument [http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2011/11/4294/], but know that there's a good reason for binary choice systems in the games we play.
 

Abyss

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Apr 21, 2012
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Don?t forget that Yahtzee has a bit of morality system in POACHER too, if you want to get the most fulfilling and satisfying endings. For example, in order to get the secret ending, you have to avoid killing zombified Blemings, white rabbits, as well as not shooting the gamekeeper. You also get a bad ending if you choose to fight the leader of the Dark Ones head on before learning more about the underworld?s history from the nice tea lady. I agree with Yahtzee that DISHONORED and other games get rather binary, but he should remember he gets a little binary too (with some artistic creativity).

That?s not too say I didn?t like his review. I think that this Zero Punctuation review of DISHONORED is freaking awesome. It?s hilarious, it?s very observant on many levels, and I thought much of his comments were apt. I also loved the comparison with THIEF, which I do agree would dwarf many other modern games if it were made with today?s technology. (I think THIEF 4 has a lot of potential to live up to, in terms of being in the spirit of the original games and being able to upstage DISHONORED). The comment about the Combine from HALF-LIFE 2 being in control of Victorian London especially cracked me up. Even though he claims to be disappointed, he sure played it a lot of times for someone who wanted more from it. I understand where he?s coming from. EPIC MICKEY, INFAMOUS, and MASS EFFECT each have these defects, and it would serve for a more original game if its gameplay system transcended beyond morality and good or bad endings.

Still, me and my best friend agree that DISHONORED embodied the kind of gameplay DEUS EX 3 should have had. Considering that it was done by two of the level designers from the first DEUS EX, they excelled in making an FPRPG which had both stealth and combat. It doesn?t have the other qualities which made DEUS EX 1 great (like choosing your endings based upon which goal you choose to complete on your final mission), but its close. DISHONORED could have benefitted from more elements from DEUS EX 1, and probably even more environments to explore.

Even it does resemble THIEF very much, THIEF was more so a steampunk version of medieval London with some Victorian aspects rather than a steampunk version of Victorian London. I had expected DISHONORED to be a steampunk version of 17th Century London, since that was when the infamous plague occurred. Overall, it?s still an awesome game, even though I agree that the THIEF series and DEUS EX 1 still loom higher over DISHONORED.

Thank you,Yahtzee, for doing an awesome and hilarious review. I believe this to be one of your best reviews, sir.
 

Rhatar Khurin

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Aug 14, 2008
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I just have to comment on "Surprise hate conga" that line cracked me up.

Never even heard of the game till now though.
 

Luiz Soranco

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Dec 12, 2012
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Okay, let's admit one thing: you are only complaining about the morality choice, because it's not letting you by a psychopath and get away with it. Just kill everyone you want and suck up the "bad ending". Also, I don't know what Yathzee is talking about with "shity blend ending". As long as I am awere we havw 3 endings. High chaos with dead Emily, High chaos with live Emily and Low chaos.

I'd say the game is good (not mediocre-good). Buy it if you really into stealth. Rent otherwise. You can get three different experiences out of it by playing normaly, without killing and without upgradding. They are three very.different gameplays in my opinion, and I like it!

It only falls short in the story presentation. Too much text and books. Show don't tell. Play don't show.