Zero Punctuation: Dragon Age II
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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I agree with you on liking the concept. I'd defended the game for it in the early days. I was glad to hear Bioware breaking its own cliche plot. Where were they gonna take it I wondered?ShenCS said:
Sadly, I got to play the game and I was let down. Its a big go nowhere plot that keeps you stuck in a boring box city with about 10 people living in it.
The main problem is Hawke has no motivation to stay, beyond "MONEH AND POWWA!!!!" so my good guy Hawke kinda wanted to go do something else but couldnt.
Fereldan need help recovering from a disaster! Lets go help them!
But Dragon age 2 says NO! Deal with our side quests! GET 30 ELF ROOTS!
*sigh*
Dont buy it. There is no thought, love or care in this game.
I preferred the days when rogues were...rogues - rather than dexterity-based fighters. Baldurs Gate series, Planescape: Torment - heck, even FO1-2 with a stealth build. You had your 'nimble melee' characters as well, because you had multiple builds for different classes, and so you could make a dagger-based dual-wielding fighter with high dexterity instead of high strength. But rogues were always stealth-based characters, with some form of invis/hidden skill, backstabs, trap-finding, lock-picking etc. They were great fun in BG2 for mage-killing, stealthing them to scout ahead of your party and act as a spotter for your mages to open up with a fireball before the enemy could close the gap (friendly fire + ability to scout up ahead of the group without everyone automatically walking their unstealthed asses up behind you + AoE spells = great use for scouting/stealth characters) and opening the combat with a 5x damage backstab to kill the enemy group's mage before they can react. Felt a LOT more 'rogue' than being another fighter with different animations - I blame MMOs for killing the class.Onyx Oblivion said:
Ah, I must have missed him. I had Isabela there for all of occasions along with Alister in the first game which made both of those cameos priceless. Once I head assassin camped out in a cave I knew had I had to bring her... actually that play through (my second time beating it) I brought her on virtually every mission as her dialog is priceless. Honestly Sandal's shop near the end of the game irked me more than anything else because it made no sense. In the first game I could kind of wave it off, but in the second it just seemed out of place. I am looking forward to the next game taking place either in Orlay, the Imperium or Antiva because all of them have been really fleshed out at this point. I'm hoping for the Imperium so we can see some awesome Mage vs Qunari action... plus it's the only place where the actions of this game wouldn't profoundly reshape politics.[/quote]
If theres a 3, which there will, it'll be in Orleis, I can almost be certain of it. But Tevinter would be more interesting. Especially if you have the Imperial Chantry moving in on the weakened Orlesian church. Plus the Imperium is partially tropical, so that would be a welcome change of scenery. Though having "Elephant" instead of "Dog" in your party might be a game breaker. (quote thing went screwy there, ah well.)
If theres a 3, which there will, it'll be in Orleis, I can almost be certain of it. But Tevinter would be more interesting. Especially if you have the Imperial Chantry moving in on the weakened Orlesian church. Plus the Imperium is partially tropical, so that would be a welcome change of scenery. Though having "Elephant" instead of "Dog" in your party might be a game breaker. (quote thing went screwy there, ah well.)
Very true about the Berserker. That just felt like a waste of stamina and I respeced after I realized that.grimner said:
But I agree with your overall point, mainly that BioWare should not throw the baby out with the bathwater for the next game. They need a perfect fusion of the two: a personal story with the great visual design and action-packed combat, but with the longer, wider-reaching quest style of the first, with more unique environments and an overall goal that ties all the main story quests together (player character VO is optional, but I like it, so whatever).
A little kowtowing to the "hardcore" RPG crowd is fine, with some more customization in terms of outfitting the party, but only if it makes sense. In DA2, all the companions are basically doing their own thing, so it makes sense they would dress themselves.
Not when your character is supposed to be " the Champion"ShenCS said:
It kinda defeats the point don't you think if he doesn't do something incredible to make playing him worthwhile
Dragon Age 2 is definitely a game that requires certain expectations and a certain mindset to enjoy. If you go in wanting an epic, overarching plotline, you'll be disappointed. If you play a Hawke who doesn't fit the narrative Bioware's laid out for him, you'll be disappointed. If you want traditional tactical combat, you'll be disappointed. If you happen to stumble into the weakest branches of the branching narrative or have the key scenes of the story fouled by bugs, you'll be disappointed.
Personally, I liked the departure from the epic overarching plot; I enjoyed the story less and less the more epic it became. It was nice as a story about a refugee making his way in the world and rising from abject poverty (though that said, after Act 1 the poverty problem was put to rest and your motivation gets a little hazy.)
And I have to disagree that this is just a shameless cash-in sequel. Obviously there's some of that; game design is still a business. But I have a hard time believing that Bioware doesn't genuinely care about Dragon Age or this whole world they've pieced together. I think the sloppy design comes more from a rushed development cycle than anything else - if they'd had another year to design more environments and iron out bugs, the game would definitely be much better.
Personally, I liked the departure from the epic overarching plot; I enjoyed the story less and less the more epic it became. It was nice as a story about a refugee making his way in the world and rising from abject poverty (though that said, after Act 1 the poverty problem was put to rest and your motivation gets a little hazy.)
And I have to disagree that this is just a shameless cash-in sequel. Obviously there's some of that; game design is still a business. But I have a hard time believing that Bioware doesn't genuinely care about Dragon Age or this whole world they've pieced together. I think the sloppy design comes more from a rushed development cycle than anything else - if they'd had another year to design more environments and iron out bugs, the game would definitely be much better.
Good thing the people with rants on how they disagree with THE UNEPIC STORY tend to use capitals; makes it easy to ignore.
Can't give my own opinion on the game as I haven't played it, but people shouldn't confuse capitals with arguments.
Can't give my own opinion on the game as I haven't played it, but people shouldn't confuse capitals with arguments.
I hope it isn't Orleis, there doesn't seem to be as much yarn there as there is with Tevinter.Oro44 said:
Tevinter has:
1. The magisters
2. The black chantry
3. Lots of slaves
4. Constant war with the Qunari
Orleis has:
1. Oppression by the chevaliers
2. The events of DA 2 causing the breakdown of the chantry, templars and circle.
Now I suppose the less cluttered environment would make it easier to build a new story, which might be a plus from a development standpoint. Either of these elements could easily be turned into a pretty epic story in its own right. Ranging from things as simple as you could be a peasant rising up from nothing to try to become a chevalier after being oppressed by them. To the more epic, gray warden problem involving a potential artifact related to dark spawn or the veil with all of the rest simply being backdrop. Orlies does also have an air of decadence to it that the more practical Imperium lacks that could juxtapose a sense of world changing strife and suffering with complaints about fashion nicely. So both work, but I suppose I would prefer the kind of story that the Imperium could frame more.
I think the problem is that it never FELT epic or monumental.rsvp42 said:
You just had another fight with a big guy in a grey boxy room. And then its just kind of over.
And once you are Champion? Doesnt matter. No "Power" like the trailer suggests. No influence on plot, your choices are just as meaningless.
People just call you "Champion" instead of "Hawke". Which kind of makes forcing you into being a Human even less beneficial.
From what I've heard, the game feels quite rushed and unpolished but it's still a good game. Not just amazing like the previous one.
According to reports from Bioware, we can blame EA. Bioware's dev team had a good few months to go to finish the game, in both polish as well as story, and EA told them to rush it right out the door before the final tweaks could be made.
So while Bioware wanted to aim for the First category you outlined, Yahtzee, their publisher suck "Fuck that shit" to that goal and had them toss it into the second category.
According to reports from Bioware, we can blame EA. Bioware's dev team had a good few months to go to finish the game, in both polish as well as story, and EA told them to rush it right out the door before the final tweaks could be made.
So while Bioware wanted to aim for the First category you outlined, Yahtzee, their publisher suck "Fuck that shit" to that goal and had them toss it into the second category.
Luckily, I didn't buy it. I think your take on this is probably right. Damn the user ratings on metacritic are low. Also, the abundance of racism and xenophobia made me think, why do games who focus on this type of stuff think it is deep? Racism and xenophobia are common, everyday affairs. Recycling and presenting prejudices is not innovation, it isn't deep, it needs to be used as background filler to present something bigger.crabdog62482 said:
Multi-layer the racism into something resembling a plot and backstory.
I think Bioware's A-game is off making Old Republic and their standby's made this. Its still a good game though especially on the PC. Better then the other RPG's that recently came out. But come on I don't seriously think this is a rushed ploy for money, I mean the characters and diolouge is so well thought out that this whole thing probably is just a big character study. Don't think of it as an epic adventure, just a small magical tale. If you go at it with that perspective the game becomes 10x better. I don't like it because there are TOO MANY GODDAMN SPIDERS IN IT!!