Zero Punctuation: Dragon Age II

[etocadet]

It was wierd that Mass Effect 1/2 didn't have a homosexual relationship option, I'm not gay but i did find it weird that you could actually have sex with aliens.

 

[rsvp42]

I think the problem is that it never FELT epic or monumental.
You just had another fight with a big guy in a grey boxy room. And then its just kind of over.

And once you are Champion? Doesnt matter. No "Power" like the trailer suggests. No influence on plot, your choices are just as meaningless.
People just call you "Champion" instead of "Hawke". Which kind of makes forcing you into being a Human even less beneficial.

While I can understand your experience I can't say mine was the same. It's clearly been a pretty divisive game, so it has failed insofar as providing a universally enjoyable experience (at least when compared to Origins). I personally like most of the changes and don't lament any features that were lost in translation, but this is just a case where my opinion doesn't agree with a lot of others.

As for the race selection, I don't see it as being "forced" since it was done for story reasons. That being a said, the same game with more VO to support a wider variety in character creation would be cool, but to do that right, you need a lot more VO. I remember Yahtzee's review of DA:O and he pointed out how pointless the origins and race selection felt since they all merge into essentially the same story, with a few lines spattered here and there ("you're an elf!") to support it. I much prefer a game that fully supports its one race really well and ties dialogue and story points into that than one that throws a few token options in and barely mentions them. Personally, I liked the way DA:O handled it, but they weren't grappling with player character VO, so they had a little more freedom in that sense.

The problem with always thinking that more options is better is that it almost doesn't allow studios to tell smaller stories anymore. I love an epic tale as much as the next guy, but a well-crafted story with a smaller scope can be really cool too. I don't need to have unlimited options in an RPG to enjoy the world and the story, so I'd hate for BioWare to think they can never tell that kind of story. Will we as players always accuse any such story choice as laziness?

 

[the_green_dragon]

Wow, that basically covers how I feel about DA2. Good job!!

 

[Murmillos]

As much as I hate the button massing combat.
As much as I hate the reused maps, caves, mansions
As much as I hate that the plot is nothing but a holding pattern of random useless reasons for doing shit.
I love this game so much because no matter whom you have in your party, your characters are always having fun with each other. The bickering, the teasing, the baiting the clueless, the airing of hostilities for another - this game screams character - while some of it may be cheesy, cliche', over-the-top, stupid, mindless and maybe even pointless, at least they are alive - making this game still very enjoyable for the social aspect of it.

It's even given me and a co-worker great source material to throw into our office banter between each other and "troll" other co-workers because they have no idea what they are listening into.


That alone is why I'm a million times more invested into DA2 then I was toward ME2. Everybody felt so stiff and lifeless with only "key" view points to get anything out of your squad-mates.

 

[the_green_dragon]

[quote="Kaanyr Vhok" post="6.274071.10605146

I also don't think the whole "only able to talk to people in camp" thing works as well for dragon age. I prefer being able to hold a conversation whenever.

You had to go to the companion's house to be able to really chat with them, that actually annoyed me even more then the camp thing, at least at camp they were all in one place rather then making me hike halfway across town and back (thru 3 or 4 loading screens)

 

[Danpascooch]

personally I kind of liked how you didnt have some huge world ending plot and it was more about your life.... altho they certainly could have done a better job at that and the endless baddies did get old, I mean you would think at least the dogs would have some self preservation instinct

It really did get ridiculous after a while, I would be walking around hightown with OTHER PEDESTRIANS strolling peacefully, suddenly I'm attacked and they don't even run, just continue walking quietly by while arrows and fireballs made of demon-magic-killthefuckoutofyou fly over their heads.

I was not a fan of this game, it's fine if you want to tell the story of his life and not of a world threatening event, but then don't split it so clearly into 3 sections with three big conflicts as if you're using some sort of story-stencil.

 

[Danpascooch]

Dragon Age 2 is definitely a game that requires certain expectations and a certain mindset to enjoy. If you go in wanting an epic, overarching plotline, you'll be disappointed. If you play a Hawke who doesn't fit the narrative Bioware's laid out for him, you'll be disappointed. If you want traditional tactical combat, you'll be disappointed. If you happen to stumble into the weakest branches of the branching narrative or have the key scenes of the story fouled by bugs, you'll be disappointed.

Personally, I liked the departure from the epic overarching plot; I enjoyed the story less and less the more epic it became. It was nice as a story about a refugee making his way in the world and rising from abject poverty (though that said, after Act 1 the poverty problem was put to rest and your motivation gets a little hazy.)

And I have to disagree that this is just a shameless cash-in sequel. Obviously there's some of that; game design is still a business. But I have a hard time believing that Bioware doesn't genuinely care about Dragon Age or this whole world they've pieced together. I think the sloppy design comes more from a rushed development cycle than anything else - if they'd had another year to design more environments and iron out bugs, the game would definitely be much better.

So the mindset I need to go in with is: "I didn't need that $60 anyway?"

I find it a bit odd how you say it was not a cash in, but that the sloppy design comes from rushed development

Why do you think they rushed development and cut corners? Because a wizard made them?

 

[Luquent]

I'm tired of games being named after things that are only briefly discussed in the actual game.
Dragon age, Twilight princess, Mass Effect, Scribblenauts, etc.

 

[CreepyStalker]

I didn't like this ZP, most of Yahtzee's stuff makes me laugh, this just made me smile, so it didn't do it for me which is a shame, although mostly its because he said nothing we haven't heard before from every single one of the games haters (the haters were particularly numerous for this game) and threw in about 2 jokes, so once he headed with the "Agree" option you might as well have been reading one of the haters messages and pretending its in a funny accent.

 

[Da_Vane]

Classy, as always...

 

[regalphantom]

Anybody else notice that the submarine at 3:45 is a greyscale version of the Beatle's Yellow Submarine?

 

[Arcticflame]

You had to go to the companion's house to be able to really chat with them, that actually annoyed me even more then the camp thing, at least at camp they were all in one place rather then making me hike halfway across town and back (thru 3 or 4 loading screens)

That's what I meant sorry, I'm talking about dragon age 2, going to Ander's clinic was always a complete chore.

Dragon age origins was better because you could talk to them anywhere, and only some cut-scenes were restricted to camp.

 

[Canadish]

I think the problem is that it never FELT epic or monumental.
You just had another fight with a big guy in a grey boxy room. And then its just kind of over.

And once you are Champion? Doesnt matter. No "Power" like the trailer suggests. No influence on plot, your choices are just as meaningless.
People just call you "Champion" instead of "Hawke". Which kind of makes forcing you into being a Human even less beneficial.

While I can understand your experience I can't say mine was the same. It's clearly been a pretty divisive game, so it has failed insofar as providing a universally enjoyable experience (at least when compared to Origins). I personally like most of the changes and don't lament any features that were lost in translation, but this is just a case where my opinion doesn't agree with a lot of others.

As for the race selection, I don't see it as being "forced" since it was done for story reasons. That being a said, the same game with more VO to support a wider variety in character creation would be cool, but to do that right, you need a lot more VO. I remember Yahtzee's review of DA:O and he pointed out how pointless the origins and race selection felt since they all merge into essentially the same story, with a few lines spattered here and there ("you're an elf!") to support it. I much prefer a game that fully supports its one race really well and ties dialogue and story points into that than one that throws a few token options in and barely mentions them. Personally, I liked the way DA:O handled it, but they weren't grappling with player character VO, so they had a little more freedom in that sense.

The problem with always thinking that more options is better is that it almost doesn't allow studios to tell smaller stories anymore. I love an epic tale as much as the next guy, but a well-crafted story with a smaller scope can be really cool too. I don't need to have unlimited options in an RPG to enjoy the world and the story, so I'd hate for BioWare to think they can never tell that kind of story. Will we as players always accuse any such story choice as laziness?

Whats tragic here, is that I strongly agree with your points. I've felt the same thing, the industry is pushing for nothing but "da most epic story eva!".
What I was worried about with Dragon Age 2, and what DA2 ended up being, was that "a smaller more focused story" translated to "We're adding half the content", rather then being a more focused and deeper, personal story.

I understand that how much someone connects to and enjoys a plot is subjective, but I really didnt feel "Hawke's Rise to Power" was more focused. It was not deeper. It was a little more personal near the start, but you cant avoid what happens to Hawke's family, and so the connection is broken. Those "tragic" moments didnt feel tragic like in Origins dark moments, because in Origins I knew I could have avoided them, I could have done better. DA2 just felt contrived, like a Soap Opera.
Overall, it confirmed my fears that Bioware just cut content (probably EA giving them less time, telling them to just add $10 DLC) and then got Mike Laidlaw to tell everyone it was "more focused". The whole thing felt like marketing spin and that we consumers got taken for a ride.
I think thats why so many are pissed off about this game.

The fact the Origins Lead Designer walked off the project says alot to me.
I hate to mention someone in particular, but Mike Laidlaw (new Lead designer) just struck me as a greasy used car salesman, trying to trick us into a purchase, rather then a passionate games developer who wanted to make something great that would sell on its merits.

 

[the_green_dragon]

You had to go to the companion's house to be able to really chat with them, that actually annoyed me even more then the camp thing, at least at camp they were all in one place rather then making me hike halfway across town and back (thru 3 or 4 loading screens)

That's what I meant sorry, I'm talking about dragon age 2, going to Ander's clinic was always a complete chore.

Dragon age origins was better because you could talk to them anywhere, and only some cut-scenes were restricted to camp.

Hey, totally, and how about Avaline and her stupid office at the Viscount's place? I mean when did she EVER actually get any work done in there? She was with me the whole time.

 

[Worgen]

personally I kind of liked how you didnt have some huge world ending plot and it was more about your life.... altho they certainly could have done a better job at that and the endless baddies did get old, I mean you would think at least the dogs would have some self preservation instinct

It really did get ridiculous after a while, I would be walking around hightown with OTHER PEDESTRIANS strolling peacefully, suddenly I'm attacked and they don't even run, just continue walking quietly by while arrows and fireballs made of demon-magic-killthefuckoutofyou fly over their heads.

I was not a fan of this game, it's fine if you want to tell the story of his life and not of a world threatening event, but then don't split it so clearly into 3 sections with three big conflicts as if you're using some sort of story-stencil.

my main problem with it aside from the random fights in front of guards was that, what the hell is happening to you during those 3 years that the game doesnt follow you? I mean it would have been really cool if you could have set something that your char was working on so there was a reason you werent being jumped in the streets by gangs of 40 muggers at a time

 

[Acting like a FOOL]

the games okay...I also guess it's nice to hear that yahtzees getting some man meat. some real protein right their. (I am so getting put on probation)

 

[mechanixis]

Dragon Age 2 is definitely a game that requires certain expectations and a certain mindset to enjoy. If you go in wanting an epic, overarching plotline, you'll be disappointed. If you play a Hawke who doesn't fit the narrative Bioware's laid out for him, you'll be disappointed. If you want traditional tactical combat, you'll be disappointed. If you happen to stumble into the weakest branches of the branching narrative or have the key scenes of the story fouled by bugs, you'll be disappointed.

Personally, I liked the departure from the epic overarching plot; I enjoyed the story less and less the more epic it became. It was nice as a story about a refugee making his way in the world and rising from abject poverty (though that said, after Act 1 the poverty problem was put to rest and your motivation gets a little hazy.)

And I have to disagree that this is just a shameless cash-in sequel. Obviously there's some of that; game design is still a business. But I have a hard time believing that Bioware doesn't genuinely care about Dragon Age or this whole world they've pieced together. I think the sloppy design comes more from a rushed development cycle than anything else - if they'd had another year to design more environments and iron out bugs, the game would definitely be much better.

So the mindset I need to go in with is: "I didn't need that $60 anyway?"

I find it a bit odd how you say it was not a cash in, but that the sloppy design comes from rushed development

Why do you think they rushed development and cut corners? Because a wizard made them?

Hostile much? What I'm saying is, for me, Dragon Age 2 happened to be the best experience I've had with a Bioware game since the original Mass Effect, and it's a shame I'm in the minority for that. But the way it's designed pretty much guarantees people's experiences will be all over the place.

And really, the people writing the game don't set the deadlines and release schedules. That's done by the marketing execs, and obviously their primary interested is profits. That's their job. But to say that the creative team didn't care is pretty hard to back up; they obviously invested a lot in fleshing out the world and characters. Dragon Age 2 was developed in one year - Origins was developed in seven. They cut corners due to pragmatism, not apathy. It's pretty fair to say that if these people had been given another six months, they gladly would have added a few more caves and everyone would be happy.

 

[okitana]

sadly i mostly agree with this vid...

i finished it last night and well... even if its supposed to be "a more personal story"
you become champion... ok cool, you pick a side... ok cool, you kill EVERYONE ANYWAY... lame

by the end of the game the threads you weave dont even matter.

at least with origins when you meet a fellow player you can have these massive convosations about how you played it.... dragon age 2 wont have this

 

[mr.mystery]

very funnay as always. Hes the best reviewer ever

 

[SatanTheBear]

Why is it all british people in video games at the moment are being voiced by the same condescending tit? Both Hawke and the annoying british Helghast are voiced by the same guy. Is there going to be an uprising soon and the UK become the next target for the USA's bombs because they're just so clever and witty but all so condescending and we just dont get it so there for they must be destroyed? Great review though. Spot on!