Zero Punctuation: Dragon Age: Origins
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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Yahtzee completely missed the Tactics system, which I think is actually a pretty important mechanic. Even if it was blatantly copied from FFXII, it's nonetheless a relatively rare RPG innovation that I, for one, rather enjoy. Perhaps the gigantic tome of knowledge deserved a mention too -- but not quite as much as the Tactics system.
Aside from that, relatively comprehensive review the reflects the deserved commentary of, "fantasy roleplay, what's up with that, am I right" well.
Aside from that, relatively comprehensive review the reflects the deserved commentary of, "fantasy roleplay, what's up with that, am I right" well.
It's a legitimate question that will have to be decided through extensive experimentation. I shall need to procure some 'test subjects' of varying levels of hotness and unwavering levels of horniness immediately.Kalllisto said:Aahh, A Harry Hill fan I see..Catkid906 said:
Also, I proved Yahtzee wrong by playing Dragon Age AND having sex in the same day.
Can't really say that Yahtzee claimed anything that's not right. Some elaboration however could be useful here.
The standard-fantasy:
Pretty much yes. You have the typical bow-wielding elves from the woods, the bearded dwarves from deep below the earth who are always the first to be horribly raped when something evil comes and the humans who are practically incredibly average but pretty much awesome because of that.
Bioware tried to mix the clichees up however...even if only a little bit. The elves are parted into our well-known forest-elves, although they're rather upset at the humans than arrogant, and the city-elves who live at slaves to the humans (at best). The dwarves are almost extinct, but so far I didn't see them humping everyone's legs for beer so far. Yes, they're still stereotypes to no end, but then again, I remember the last game who tried to f*** with the Tolkien-stereotypes a (tiny) bit and remember the beatdown WoW got for actually turning the bloodelves into power-hungry mage-addicts and turning them to the Horde.
The other thing about this point is something related to storytelling as general. I think it's pretty hard to come up with something that hasn't been done in the last thausands of years and still makes sense. I mean, yeah, we could turn the elves into bloodthirsty, meatbags with the manners and ethics of Orwell's dictator-pigs, but thinking about it all we would've done then was renaming and reskinning the stereotypical orc, wouldn't we? And if we don't go for extremes and make them rather...mediocre...then we would have the stereotypical fantasy-humans.....with pointy ears.
Dark Fantasy: Erm, yeah.....no, not really. Like Yahtzee and at least 5 more people here said it's just fantasy. What I CAN sign would be the term Dark Bioware-RPG, since this is the first of their games where I, as a player, can actually understand the permanently proclaimed horror and threat of the Darkspawn in contrast to other Bioware-games where even death isn't really that scary. So yeah, it is much more brutal and, for once I want to use that term, "adult" than previous Bioware-titles, although admittedly the thing with the blood was a bit off to me. Yeah, I know, if you fight in close range against enemies with sharp weapons, you probably will get messed up with blood and gore, but for heaven's sake, why do my characters look like they just jumped into a blood-sprinkler when they only lashed out at a friggin' wolf for two times?
The dialouge: Well, as stated, if you complain about muuuuch dialouge in a Bioware game, you might as well be complaining about an orange being...orange. As for me, I acutally enjoy the conversations in this game a lot more than in the previous. Bioware finally, finally realized that they suck in making a credible moral choice-system, so they replaced it with an "approval"-meter that only applies to your companions and make them agre with and help you or disagree and eventually leave you. It's rather refreshing for Bioware that the spoken word has a credible consequence. If for instance you start to insult Morrigan you will loose a good portion of her approval guaranteed and if you tell her to leave because you can't stand her, she actually leaves. Yeah, it sounds stupid to be giddy about something that is plain logical, but hey, we're talking about a Bioware-game here, where you usually could violate every single part of your companions' ethics and they would still follow you, saying that they don't like what you do.
So, as far as my unsignificant self can say, I like (yes, present, not past form) Dragon Age so far, although I do hope that there are not only six different beginnings but also at least several possible endings and hopefully even som unique references to the specific starting-scenarios.
Last but not least I want to mention the combat, which I like very, very much, since it does actually needs tactical effort. Yes, you indeed have to think about things like positioning, using weakening spells and strenghtening spells and efficiently decide which ability to use in which situation which is a refreshing contrast to the typical "You are the heroes of the game, here are 5 billions healthpotions, click your enemies dead"-scenario.
The standard-fantasy:
Pretty much yes. You have the typical bow-wielding elves from the woods, the bearded dwarves from deep below the earth who are always the first to be horribly raped when something evil comes and the humans who are practically incredibly average but pretty much awesome because of that.
Bioware tried to mix the clichees up however...even if only a little bit. The elves are parted into our well-known forest-elves, although they're rather upset at the humans than arrogant, and the city-elves who live at slaves to the humans (at best). The dwarves are almost extinct, but so far I didn't see them humping everyone's legs for beer so far. Yes, they're still stereotypes to no end, but then again, I remember the last game who tried to f*** with the Tolkien-stereotypes a (tiny) bit and remember the beatdown WoW got for actually turning the bloodelves into power-hungry mage-addicts and turning them to the Horde.
The other thing about this point is something related to storytelling as general. I think it's pretty hard to come up with something that hasn't been done in the last thausands of years and still makes sense. I mean, yeah, we could turn the elves into bloodthirsty, meatbags with the manners and ethics of Orwell's dictator-pigs, but thinking about it all we would've done then was renaming and reskinning the stereotypical orc, wouldn't we? And if we don't go for extremes and make them rather...mediocre...then we would have the stereotypical fantasy-humans.....with pointy ears.
Dark Fantasy: Erm, yeah.....no, not really. Like Yahtzee and at least 5 more people here said it's just fantasy. What I CAN sign would be the term Dark Bioware-RPG, since this is the first of their games where I, as a player, can actually understand the permanently proclaimed horror and threat of the Darkspawn in contrast to other Bioware-games where even death isn't really that scary. So yeah, it is much more brutal and, for once I want to use that term, "adult" than previous Bioware-titles, although admittedly the thing with the blood was a bit off to me. Yeah, I know, if you fight in close range against enemies with sharp weapons, you probably will get messed up with blood and gore, but for heaven's sake, why do my characters look like they just jumped into a blood-sprinkler when they only lashed out at a friggin' wolf for two times?
The dialouge: Well, as stated, if you complain about muuuuch dialouge in a Bioware game, you might as well be complaining about an orange being...orange. As for me, I acutally enjoy the conversations in this game a lot more than in the previous. Bioware finally, finally realized that they suck in making a credible moral choice-system, so they replaced it with an "approval"-meter that only applies to your companions and make them agre with and help you or disagree and eventually leave you. It's rather refreshing for Bioware that the spoken word has a credible consequence. If for instance you start to insult Morrigan you will loose a good portion of her approval guaranteed and if you tell her to leave because you can't stand her, she actually leaves. Yeah, it sounds stupid to be giddy about something that is plain logical, but hey, we're talking about a Bioware-game here, where you usually could violate every single part of your companions' ethics and they would still follow you, saying that they don't like what you do.
So, as far as my unsignificant self can say, I like (yes, present, not past form) Dragon Age so far, although I do hope that there are not only six different beginnings but also at least several possible endings and hopefully even som unique references to the specific starting-scenarios.
Last but not least I want to mention the combat, which I like very, very much, since it does actually needs tactical effort. Yes, you indeed have to think about things like positioning, using weakening spells and strenghtening spells and efficiently decide which ability to use in which situation which is a refreshing contrast to the typical "You are the heroes of the game, here are 5 billions healthpotions, click your enemies dead"-scenario.
These sorts of games with complicated menu system are best played on PC. COMON! Many games are best played on PC so again COMON! KHM First Person Shooters KHM KHM... Lose the consoles and try out the games on PC! But well some are really crappy ports so ofcourse ignore those because well the developers are just douches.
I didn't expect the "when will someone make a unique fantasy" route, but its true. I'm surprised he didn't mention how a ton of the gameplay, story, and look were seemingly stolen from Dungeon Siege 2 (invasion from orc-looking guys with a random name, 4 player party with the exact same roles, yellow and orange names for harder enemies, towers everywhere for some reason, and so on).
PS - Who actually plays this type of game on a console? I didn't think for one second that doing so would be better than playing it on a pc. Hell, they had to completely change the gameplay of baldur's gate games to make them fly on whatever system you had.
PS - Who actually plays this type of game on a console? I didn't think for one second that doing so would be better than playing it on a pc. Hell, they had to completely change the gameplay of baldur's gate games to make them fly on whatever system you had.
Anyone else getting this error at the top of the page?
'Warning: Division by zero in /sixpack/web_ramdisk/sites/global/classes/class.ims_forums.thread.inc on line 391'
lol division by zero.
'Warning: Division by zero in /sixpack/web_ramdisk/sites/global/classes/class.ims_forums.thread.inc on line 391'
lol division by zero.
@Hallow's Eve: The 7 books (about to be 8) mentioned is George R.R. Martin's book series "A Song of Fire And Ice" (better known as A Game of Thrones), in which there are no elves and only one dwarf of very real-life make. I'm suspecting they turned the warring factions of humans into different races in Dragon Age. There is supposed to be a second video game based off his books so maybe that will have a different feel. But it is said that Cyanide Games picked up the rights and they plan a RTS and a RPG. I'm not sure if they partnered with Bioware or not. But given what I've heard about the PC version perhaps it is the RTS side of it. Not sure on that.Hallow said:
Tolkein based a chunk of his work off of "Des Ring des Nibelungen" by Richard Wagner (pronounced Vagner) which in turn is based of the tale of Siegfried. The dwarves are definitely coming from the Norse legends and the elves (dark and light) come from there but also from the English which might have been after the Germanic wars where they pushed for expansion. I'm not clear on that anymore. But I guess my point is that Tolkein dug around in the deeper mythologies and thus many writers/game makers follow suit. And it wouldn't be so bad if there was more in-depth stories involved instead of just a sprinkling of high fantasy flavor on top of a lot of games.mklnjbh said:
But given the clips I've seen of Dragon Age, I think there is a good chunk of the battles with the cold liches, huge dragons, and wooly mammoth creatures hiding in the game play. Indeed, it looked like they re-created battles only hinted at in the history of the books. So I am hopeful that the character depth will remain along with the rich storyline. I know it is not the same tale as the books but there is some very good epic-scale source material to draw from so I do expect the game will shine through the elf/dwarf/human veneer. (At least I hope so, because I've milked Oblivion for about all that it is worth!)
@Yahtzee: Thanks for your clear and honest review. Given that you don't tend to like fantasy RPG's having you become curious enough to play on actually says a lot. I look forward to your next review!
NICE! I actually liked the stonking great game contest rant more than dragon age orgins but good review as always.
What's going to be up next week?
Left 4 Dead 2
Assassin's Creed 2
Modern Warfare 2
All games that had prequels and that he has reviewed before. Oh, this is going to be interesting.
What's going to be up next week?
Left 4 Dead 2
Assassin's Creed 2
Modern Warfare 2
All games that had prequels and that he has reviewed before. Oh, this is going to be interesting.
I completely agree. I could take or leave the combat... I keep playing because of the characters. I can't say no game has made me laugh this hard, but certainly no game has made me laugh so consistently and also had a decent plot to boot.badgersprite said:
All major decisions affect the ending (Fallout style "X Happened because of your decision"). And there are several choices which do affect the ending in a big way.Headbiter said:
Also, towards the end, your Origin matters again (except for mage I think. That one already matters mid game).
Yes, elves wield bows. But considering that their only experience with warfare in the last 100 or so years are as hunters in the woods it makes sense. Its not as if they are all Legolas style superarchers. Its just the weapon they use most often (for hunting).Headbiter said:
And you will be surprised when you enter the dwarven city when you see some not bearded dwarves (and no, they are not outcasts).
The dwarfs look more like the USA (political bickering) with a caste system thrown in. Not a really nice place to be.
And the humans being awesome...
Well, they do backstab each other to no end. Not a smart thing to do when the darkspawn knocks on the door.
He may not want to read this, but often the best way to get out of the RPG-standard bestiary is to go play a JRPG.
I imagine this presents itself as a Catch 22 for the man. On the one hand, he hates all Western RPGs that wear the Tolkien uniform (i.e. most of them not based around Star Wars) and likes their stories, but on the other hand he hates JRPGs for the stories but would probably like their assortment of non-LotR creatures.
Oh, dear.
I imagine this presents itself as a Catch 22 for the man. On the one hand, he hates all Western RPGs that wear the Tolkien uniform (i.e. most of them not based around Star Wars) and likes their stories, but on the other hand he hates JRPGs for the stories but would probably like their assortment of non-LotR creatures.
Oh, dear.
