Zero Punctuation: Dragon Age: Origins
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Oh god, yes, that. It is why I avoided it most of the time. Though with how intense the Juggernaut armor acquisition was at around level 12, I really wanted to read that codex to see what the big deal was about. However, you are definitely correct. It is a pain in the ass to thumb through that codex but at least you get exp.TheAmazingTGIF said:
As for calling this game a renter... Um no, it has successfully slacked my Fantasy thirst that was created when I stopped wanting to play Oblivion but still wanted to cast some kind of doom on people. I'm on my second playthrough and already have at least three more characters planned out.
Wow, 2 for 1 day at Yahtzee's! Got two game reviews, and I may just check out Yahtzee's Last Stand. Cool review.
See, the problem with 'We need new fantasy races RAWR!' is that when a game does a totally different fantasy... let's say Paladin's Quest for SNES as an example...
You have one of two reactions. Either 'Them's elves but different!' or 'JESUS THIS AIN'T FANTASY THIS IS SCIENCE FICTION WITH ALL THE ALIENS!'
Why do we have elves and dwarves? Cause people -like- elves and dwarves.
Instead of asking 'Why can't people come up with different things?' instead ask 'Why did they choose to go with the same races?'
The answer, straight out of BioWare, is that they wanted to give the setting a familiar feel, while adding in differences to make these races and ideas and concepts fresh and interesting. This was part of their design goal.
YOU CANNOT MAKE THINGS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND HAVE THINGS BE FAMILIAR.
Instead, look at what they -did that was different- about dwarves and elves, and if you scratch the surface then you'll clue in that they -are- different. The Dalish elves aren't tree huggers, they're civilization-avoiding human hating gypsies. Why? Humans have a tendancy to either enslave them or ghettoise them.
Yes. Elves who hate the race that enslaved them and often kill on sight. Which Tolkein book was that from?
Given the number of people who actually took one of the two strict-elven origins, you'd -think- they'd clue in on that. How could one play the city-elf intro and claim 'Same old Same old'?
I'm thinking that a lot of these complaints are from people who played the Magi intro and haven't bothered to step into Orzammar yet.
You have one of two reactions. Either 'Them's elves but different!' or 'JESUS THIS AIN'T FANTASY THIS IS SCIENCE FICTION WITH ALL THE ALIENS!'
Why do we have elves and dwarves? Cause people -like- elves and dwarves.
Instead of asking 'Why can't people come up with different things?' instead ask 'Why did they choose to go with the same races?'
The answer, straight out of BioWare, is that they wanted to give the setting a familiar feel, while adding in differences to make these races and ideas and concepts fresh and interesting. This was part of their design goal.
YOU CANNOT MAKE THINGS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND HAVE THINGS BE FAMILIAR.
Instead, look at what they -did that was different- about dwarves and elves, and if you scratch the surface then you'll clue in that they -are- different. The Dalish elves aren't tree huggers, they're civilization-avoiding human hating gypsies. Why? Humans have a tendancy to either enslave them or ghettoise them.
Yes. Elves who hate the race that enslaved them and often kill on sight. Which Tolkein book was that from?
Given the number of people who actually took one of the two strict-elven origins, you'd -think- they'd clue in on that. How could one play the city-elf intro and claim 'Same old Same old'?
I'm thinking that a lot of these complaints are from people who played the Magi intro and haven't bothered to step into Orzammar yet.
All the conversations are hilarious and endlessly quotable. One of my favourites is when Leliana talks to Morrigan about how she should start dressing up and showing off her assets, at which point Morrigan has to tell her, "Stop staring at my breasts!"DeathWyrmNexus said:
She may be a priestess, but she's got a little devil in her.
Good review overall. I do agree that the "Standard Fantasy Setting" has become rather cliche and whatnot. However, I really don't mind, any more than I mind FPSs with weapons that include a pistol, shotgun, assault rifle, or sniper rifle (ie all of them), or an adventure game where you have to click on bits of the environment, or racing games that have you driving a car. Sure, it's bog-standard, but it is what is expected and what people are comfortable with, a sort of cultural bookmark that people can instantly identify with, so that when you are playing a sci-fi FPS and get a bizzare-looking weapon that zooms in, you can go "Aha! Sniper Rifle!"
In the same sense, most people who play RPGs expect certain things, so when they go to the mountains they expect to see dwarves, in the forest elves, and dragons at some climactic point or another. Cliche? Absolutely. Still works though.
Speaking of DA:O- it is one of the least original games I've seen in a long time. The setting is Tolkein, the story is similar to A Song of Fire and Ice, the (PC) interface is similar to most MMORPGs, the tactics system is lifted out of FFXII, even the names of spells and such are lifted straight from DnD. And you know what?
I don't care. I love this game. It may be unoriginal, but it is done so well that you enjoy every twist and turn, even the ones you see coming a while away. The story is grand, the writing and voice acting are superb, the combat system works perfectly for this sort of game, the characters are fleshed out, the classes are interesting, the origin stories kick ass, etc.
So I guess what I'm saying is I love this game. I've logged close to 50 hours right now, and I probably could log another 50 (I haven't come close to finishing all the side quests), and while the game is terribly unoriginal, it's so well crafted that it more than makes up for it.
Oh, and congratulations to the winners of the contest.
In the same sense, most people who play RPGs expect certain things, so when they go to the mountains they expect to see dwarves, in the forest elves, and dragons at some climactic point or another. Cliche? Absolutely. Still works though.
Speaking of DA:O- it is one of the least original games I've seen in a long time. The setting is Tolkein, the story is similar to A Song of Fire and Ice, the (PC) interface is similar to most MMORPGs, the tactics system is lifted out of FFXII, even the names of spells and such are lifted straight from DnD. And you know what?
I don't care. I love this game. It may be unoriginal, but it is done so well that you enjoy every twist and turn, even the ones you see coming a while away. The story is grand, the writing and voice acting are superb, the combat system works perfectly for this sort of game, the characters are fleshed out, the classes are interesting, the origin stories kick ass, etc.
So I guess what I'm saying is I love this game. I've logged close to 50 hours right now, and I probably could log another 50 (I haven't come close to finishing all the side quests), and while the game is terribly unoriginal, it's so well crafted that it more than makes up for it.
Oh, and congratulations to the winners of the contest.
He's right. playing 25 hours for a western RPG is averaged. they usually end around that time so i dunno how long this game is, I've just started. The battle system isn't anything different from that of Kotor or FF12 for that mater. the graphics are pretty (that's a given) the voice acting is great. so far the story seems to be more involved which is something that has been missing from WRPGs.
back to the battle system. yes, they let you pause it to issue commands. kind of like in Kotor...actually exactly like in Kotor. but you can still tell there's some kind of turn base there. plus they have "tactic slots". if you've played the game and played FF12 they will seem oddly familiar. so basically this is the FF12 ATB system with the option to pause the game just in case your brain can't move that fast. but for what it is. it's a good game. Can't complain to much. wasn't expecting anything new and innovative. wasn't expecting it to change the way a view the world. it has though progressed bioware's story telling progression. this game has actually drawn me in with the story so far. i don't feel like i'm watching a movie like i did in mass effect or Kotor or....any of the other WRPGs. so that was a nice surprise. it's a good game though.
for those of you who wish to flame, you can flame now.
back to the battle system. yes, they let you pause it to issue commands. kind of like in Kotor...actually exactly like in Kotor. but you can still tell there's some kind of turn base there. plus they have "tactic slots". if you've played the game and played FF12 they will seem oddly familiar. so basically this is the FF12 ATB system with the option to pause the game just in case your brain can't move that fast. but for what it is. it's a good game. Can't complain to much. wasn't expecting anything new and innovative. wasn't expecting it to change the way a view the world. it has though progressed bioware's story telling progression. this game has actually drawn me in with the story so far. i don't feel like i'm watching a movie like i did in mass effect or Kotor or....any of the other WRPGs. so that was a nice surprise. it's a good game though.
for those of you who wish to flame, you can flame now.
What burns me is that I missed getting Leliana twice now. I have to make sure to get her in my next playthrough...badgersprite said:
Yahtzee completely missed the Tactics system, which I think is actually a pretty important mechanic. Even if it was blatantly copied from FFXII, it's nonetheless a relatively rare RPG innovation that I, for one, rather enjoy. Perhaps the gigantic tome of knowledge deserved a mention too -- but not quite as much as the Tactics system.
Aside from that, relatively comprehensive review the reflects the deserved commentary of, "fantasy roleplay, what's up with that, am I right" well.
Aside from that, relatively comprehensive review the reflects the deserved commentary of, "fantasy roleplay, what's up with that, am I right" well.
It's a legitimate question that will have to be decided through extensive experimentation. I shall need to procure some 'test subjects' of varying levels of hotness and unwavering levels of horniness immediately.Kalllisto said:Aahh, A Harry Hill fan I see..Catkid906 said:
Also, I proved Yahtzee wrong by playing Dragon Age AND having sex in the same day.
Can't really say that Yahtzee claimed anything that's not right. Some elaboration however could be useful here.
The standard-fantasy:
Pretty much yes. You have the typical bow-wielding elves from the woods, the bearded dwarves from deep below the earth who are always the first to be horribly raped when something evil comes and the humans who are practically incredibly average but pretty much awesome because of that.
Bioware tried to mix the clichees up however...even if only a little bit. The elves are parted into our well-known forest-elves, although they're rather upset at the humans than arrogant, and the city-elves who live at slaves to the humans (at best). The dwarves are almost extinct, but so far I didn't see them humping everyone's legs for beer so far. Yes, they're still stereotypes to no end, but then again, I remember the last game who tried to f*** with the Tolkien-stereotypes a (tiny) bit and remember the beatdown WoW got for actually turning the bloodelves into power-hungry mage-addicts and turning them to the Horde.
The other thing about this point is something related to storytelling as general. I think it's pretty hard to come up with something that hasn't been done in the last thausands of years and still makes sense. I mean, yeah, we could turn the elves into bloodthirsty, meatbags with the manners and ethics of Orwell's dictator-pigs, but thinking about it all we would've done then was renaming and reskinning the stereotypical orc, wouldn't we? And if we don't go for extremes and make them rather...mediocre...then we would have the stereotypical fantasy-humans.....with pointy ears.
Dark Fantasy: Erm, yeah.....no, not really. Like Yahtzee and at least 5 more people here said it's just fantasy. What I CAN sign would be the term Dark Bioware-RPG, since this is the first of their games where I, as a player, can actually understand the permanently proclaimed horror and threat of the Darkspawn in contrast to other Bioware-games where even death isn't really that scary. So yeah, it is much more brutal and, for once I want to use that term, "adult" than previous Bioware-titles, although admittedly the thing with the blood was a bit off to me. Yeah, I know, if you fight in close range against enemies with sharp weapons, you probably will get messed up with blood and gore, but for heaven's sake, why do my characters look like they just jumped into a blood-sprinkler when they only lashed out at a friggin' wolf for two times?
The dialouge: Well, as stated, if you complain about muuuuch dialouge in a Bioware game, you might as well be complaining about an orange being...orange. As for me, I acutally enjoy the conversations in this game a lot more than in the previous. Bioware finally, finally realized that they suck in making a credible moral choice-system, so they replaced it with an "approval"-meter that only applies to your companions and make them agre with and help you or disagree and eventually leave you. It's rather refreshing for Bioware that the spoken word has a credible consequence. If for instance you start to insult Morrigan you will loose a good portion of her approval guaranteed and if you tell her to leave because you can't stand her, she actually leaves. Yeah, it sounds stupid to be giddy about something that is plain logical, but hey, we're talking about a Bioware-game here, where you usually could violate every single part of your companions' ethics and they would still follow you, saying that they don't like what you do.
So, as far as my unsignificant self can say, I like (yes, present, not past form) Dragon Age so far, although I do hope that there are not only six different beginnings but also at least several possible endings and hopefully even som unique references to the specific starting-scenarios.
Last but not least I want to mention the combat, which I like very, very much, since it does actually needs tactical effort. Yes, you indeed have to think about things like positioning, using weakening spells and strenghtening spells and efficiently decide which ability to use in which situation which is a refreshing contrast to the typical "You are the heroes of the game, here are 5 billions healthpotions, click your enemies dead"-scenario.
The standard-fantasy:
Pretty much yes. You have the typical bow-wielding elves from the woods, the bearded dwarves from deep below the earth who are always the first to be horribly raped when something evil comes and the humans who are practically incredibly average but pretty much awesome because of that.
Bioware tried to mix the clichees up however...even if only a little bit. The elves are parted into our well-known forest-elves, although they're rather upset at the humans than arrogant, and the city-elves who live at slaves to the humans (at best). The dwarves are almost extinct, but so far I didn't see them humping everyone's legs for beer so far. Yes, they're still stereotypes to no end, but then again, I remember the last game who tried to f*** with the Tolkien-stereotypes a (tiny) bit and remember the beatdown WoW got for actually turning the bloodelves into power-hungry mage-addicts and turning them to the Horde.
The other thing about this point is something related to storytelling as general. I think it's pretty hard to come up with something that hasn't been done in the last thausands of years and still makes sense. I mean, yeah, we could turn the elves into bloodthirsty, meatbags with the manners and ethics of Orwell's dictator-pigs, but thinking about it all we would've done then was renaming and reskinning the stereotypical orc, wouldn't we? And if we don't go for extremes and make them rather...mediocre...then we would have the stereotypical fantasy-humans.....with pointy ears.
Dark Fantasy: Erm, yeah.....no, not really. Like Yahtzee and at least 5 more people here said it's just fantasy. What I CAN sign would be the term Dark Bioware-RPG, since this is the first of their games where I, as a player, can actually understand the permanently proclaimed horror and threat of the Darkspawn in contrast to other Bioware-games where even death isn't really that scary. So yeah, it is much more brutal and, for once I want to use that term, "adult" than previous Bioware-titles, although admittedly the thing with the blood was a bit off to me. Yeah, I know, if you fight in close range against enemies with sharp weapons, you probably will get messed up with blood and gore, but for heaven's sake, why do my characters look like they just jumped into a blood-sprinkler when they only lashed out at a friggin' wolf for two times?
The dialouge: Well, as stated, if you complain about muuuuch dialouge in a Bioware game, you might as well be complaining about an orange being...orange. As for me, I acutally enjoy the conversations in this game a lot more than in the previous. Bioware finally, finally realized that they suck in making a credible moral choice-system, so they replaced it with an "approval"-meter that only applies to your companions and make them agre with and help you or disagree and eventually leave you. It's rather refreshing for Bioware that the spoken word has a credible consequence. If for instance you start to insult Morrigan you will loose a good portion of her approval guaranteed and if you tell her to leave because you can't stand her, she actually leaves. Yeah, it sounds stupid to be giddy about something that is plain logical, but hey, we're talking about a Bioware-game here, where you usually could violate every single part of your companions' ethics and they would still follow you, saying that they don't like what you do.
So, as far as my unsignificant self can say, I like (yes, present, not past form) Dragon Age so far, although I do hope that there are not only six different beginnings but also at least several possible endings and hopefully even som unique references to the specific starting-scenarios.
Last but not least I want to mention the combat, which I like very, very much, since it does actually needs tactical effort. Yes, you indeed have to think about things like positioning, using weakening spells and strenghtening spells and efficiently decide which ability to use in which situation which is a refreshing contrast to the typical "You are the heroes of the game, here are 5 billions healthpotions, click your enemies dead"-scenario.
These sorts of games with complicated menu system are best played on PC. COMON! Many games are best played on PC so again COMON! KHM First Person Shooters KHM KHM... Lose the consoles and try out the games on PC! But well some are really crappy ports so ofcourse ignore those because well the developers are just douches.