Zero Punctuation: E3 2015 - Hype Train Is Back

GUIGUI

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Marxie said:
Eh. I said and explained - Splatoon is specifically made to work with a gyro and NOT work with a dual stick, with the gameplay mechanics being the price for that. One can make a slasher that is better played on a m+k than on anything else, but as the result of such adaptation it would actually be fucking DoTA.
Except this is not true. I can assure you Splatoon play just as well as any other console shooter with just the Dual stick control. The fact that the Gyro can optionally be use for aiming hasn't in any way hindered the control with just the Dual Stick. Gyro add itself on the top of it, like an icing on the cake, without the dual stick control being impaired in any way. The only actual difference between Splatoon and other shooter when it come to control is that it doesn't have auto-aim. And auto-aim becomes is not needed any more once you use the Gyro.

Gyro was not just "implemented". The entirety of Splatoon was designed with gyro controls in mind.
Not really. Splatoon is basically a third person shooter, with just a different main goal. The gameplay is altered, not because of the way it control, but because killing isn't the main objective. Whether or not Gyro would have been implemented, the game would have got basically the same feeling.

The point is, with the Wii U, Nintendo actually managed to create a motion control that actually enhance the gameplay and immersion instead of just being gimmicky.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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GUIGUI said:
Except this is not true. I can assure you Splatoon play just as well as any other console shooter with just the Dual stick control.Best players of this game all use it and laminate those who refuse to.
Wait, what? I thought that you said:
GUIGUI said:
Gyro work actually better than dualstick controller. Best players of this game all use it and laminate those who refuse to.
That's just self-contradiction.
GUIGUI said:
The gameplay is altered, not because of the way it control, but because killing isn't the main objective.
Exactly. Killing isn't the main objective. Precise aiming is not the core of the gameplay mechanics. Because precise aiming with a gyro is the definition of insanity.

My point is - Splatoon did not prove that aiming with gyro sensor is superior or even equal to aiming with a dual-stick or a mouse. It just shifted it's focus away from aiming so that it would be compatible with gyro controls.

Enlong said:
Yes, okay. They designed their game around a control scheme, made sure the game was built with it in mind. Good design philisophy, making sure you have your controls planned out.
Yes. Job well done.

Enlong said:
Are... are you trying to say that it doesn't count because they put effort into it?
It doesn't count as a proof of gyro being suitable for shooters because at this point it barely qualifies as a shooter. Like in my example with a slasher that is better played on a m+k.
 

GUIGUI

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Marxie said:
GUIGUI said:
Except this is not true. I can assure you Splatoon play just as well as any other console shooter with just the Dual stick control.Best players of this game all use it and laminate those who refuse to.
Wait, what? I thought that you said:
GUIGUI said:
Gyro work actually better than dualstick controller. Best players of this game all use it and laminate those who refuse to.
That's just self-contradiction.
It isn't at all. The control with Dual stick make Splatoon control itself JUST AS GOOD as any other dual stick controlled shooter. Implementing the Gyro make it control BETTER than any existing dual stick controlled shooter. That has been my whole point the whole time. There isn't any contradiction, there.
GUIGUI said:
The gameplay is altered, not because of the way it control, but because killing isn't the main objective.
Exactly. Killing isn't the main objective. Precise aiming is not the core of the gameplay mechanics. Because precise aiming with a gyro is the definition of insanity.

My point is - Splatoon did not prove that aiming with gyro sensor is superior or even equal to aiming with a dual-stick or a mouse. It just shifted it's focus away from aiming so that it would be compatible with gyro controls.
But killing is still important. There is a shift of focus on the main objective, but if you get killed before you kill your opponent, he is the one that will spread paint while you lose time re-spawning. It's even more obvious when you play with the Charger shot, where aiming become essential to make your team progress. the Pro-mode where you have to actually guard an area against the other team (and where killing is much more prominent), aiming become very essential to the gameplay. This is where the superiority of the gyro over just using the dual stick become evident.

According to your logic, it's like you had been saying that if you play a Capture-the-flag game, it make aiming less important because the main objective isn't killing. You do realize it doesn't make sense, right?

Anyone who has tried it long enough will confirm you this, you have got a far more precise aiming with Gyro implemented than with just Dual stick. Only Mouse+keyboard is better.

Listen, just check for yourself. Play for a full day with the Charger gun, on the pro and not pro arenas, play sitting down with the Wii U gamepad resting on your lap for greater stability, adjust the sensibility till you reach your sweet spot, use dual sticks for gross aiming and gyro for fine tuning and try it for a full day, and you'll see for yourself.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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GUIGUI said:
The control with Dual stick make Splatoon control itself JUST AS GOOD as any other dual stick controlled shooter. Implementing the Gyro make it control BETTER than any existing dual stick controlled shooter.
Wat.
Sorry, try again. I think your English got messed up a bit.

GUIGUI said:
but if you get killed before you kill your opponent
Your opponent has the same control issues as you do. You are both playing a barely-shooter.

GUIGUI said:
This is where the superiority of the gyro over just using the dual stick become evident.
In Splatoon, maybe. Not in the shooting genre. Gyro was, is and will be a horrible idea for it.

GUIGUI said:
According to your logic, it's like you had been saying that if you play a Capture-the-flag game, it make aiming less important because the main objective isn't killing.
Actually, as a Quake and UT veteran of many years, I can with a great certainty say - yes, aiming is a lot, LOT less important than mobility is in CTF. A blind man who mastered the map and movements can wipe the floor with an aiming prodigy who's never seen the map and doesn't know how to rocket-jump. Changing the main objective changes the most important mechanic.
 

GUIGUI

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Marxie said:
GUIGUI said:
The control with Dual stick make Splatoon control itself JUST AS GOOD as any other dual stick controlled shooter. Implementing the Gyro make it control BETTER than any existing dual stick controlled shooter.
Wat.
Let me try again.
Splatoon with just dual stick controller: you control the aiming just as well as any other console shooters
Splatoon with Gyro implemented: you control the aiming better than in other console shooters.
GUIGUI said:
but if you get killed before you kill your opponent
Your opponent has the same control issues as you do. You are both playing a barely-shooter.
How would someone using only dual stick have any "control issue" as you say?

GUIGUI said:
This is where the superiority of the gyro over just using the dual stick become evident.
In Splatoon, maybe. Not in the shooting genre. Gyro was, is and will be a horrible idea for it.
In splatoon and in any other shooter it would be implemented. the main advantage of the gyro is that it objectively provide better aiming, faster and more precise aiming than Dual stick.

GUIGUI said:
According to your logic, it's like you had been saying that if you play a Capture-the-flag game, it make aiming less important because the main objective isn't killing.
Actually, as a Quake and UT veteran of many years, I can with a great certainty say - yes, aiming is a lot, LOT less important than mobility is in CTF. A blind man who mastered the map and movements can wipe the floor with an aiming prodigy who's never seen the map and doesn't know how to rocket-jump. Changing the main objective changes the most important mechanic.
Fair enough, but then let's focus on the pro-mode, who is basically a Protect the Base game and where killing approaching enemy as soon as possible is vital to victory (hence why the charger guns are more appropriate for this mode). And once again, for the gameplay component that is about aiming, Gyro does provide more relaible and precise control than dual stick.

I have told you. Try it for one day, with the charger shot, and then try to come back to dual stick. I can assure you that Gyro provide a better aiming control for shooters.
 

Sledgimus

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GUIGUI said:
Would be hard to play any shooter with Gyro, seeing thereis only Splatton doing it, and the Gyro work great for it. Best players of this game all use it and laminate those who refuse to.
I'm sorry, the best players do what now? Damn glad I've never played this game if losing a match could result in me being laminated. Do these unfortunates then get sold as flooring?
 

gridsleep

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Wait, wait, wait. The Last Guardian still is not out? I had that game on order three years ago but cancelled it when I lost my job. It still has not been finished and released? Imagine if I had not been fired, all the interest they would have made off the money they would not have had to return. Oh, wait, that is what they did, did they not? But with other people, not me. I have been too busy going hungry to keep track.
 

Mad World

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Evonisia said:
The little extra bits of info on games not discussed (like Mirror's Edge in 2008 and FarCry 3 in 2012 before this video) is always a treat in these E3 videos. I'd love to see the equivalent of that credit sequence in future E3 hype train crashers.
I agree. I especially thought that the Nintendo one was funny with the Mario game. LOL