Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

[Colodomoko]

What confuses me is that the people who are smart enought to figure out when a game sucks are actualy the dummer people leaving the smarter people stil smart, but very dumb for playing such a boring piece of crap, but since they are dumb for that then dumb people would be considered smart, smart people would be considered dumb, but if smart is dumb then why is it wrong to dumb people who are actualy smart because they are wrong and dumb and the dumb and smart would be wright, but then where does that leave the average folk? Average?!

If you follow you are dumb and if you do not follow you are smart and I must be smart because this does not make any sense whitch means I am wrong but then if im smart im dumb.

*warning*- reading the following may cause massive head-ache.

 

[shiajun]

I am too one of the 14-day trial traumatized gang. I like complicated. I'm a scientist, I can deal with frustration over long periods of time and literally, have no fun on a regular basis. This is exactly the reason why I fled EVE. It is just as hard to achieve anything worthwhile as in real life, yet in the end it won't allow me to buy food, or go to the movies, buy a good book, or anything except perpetuate said activity. That is why it drains life, even if you let the computer auto-pilot hours to the next system or level up your skills offline. I gave up on playing EVE, but didn't forget EVE because it's just such an interesting beast.

EDIT: I for one agree that EVE is, without a doubt, NOT WoW in any way nor attempts to be. Yahtzee is totally wrong there (nevermind the fact that EVE came first).

As a game, EVE is an utter failure. A game, by definition, should be something that entertains, that amuses, that's in some ways stress-relieving. In other words, fun. Anything that, as veterans here have said, takes at least a MONTH to get to the good parts cannot be described as fun. It is more akin to training to get good at some sport or a martial art, or developing a skill like painting, than it is to playing. It is definately not a game, but something else marketed -wrongly- as a game. As a game reviewer, that is a person who expresses opinions about games, Yahtzee is completely spot on by describing the experience with the EVE trial as lousy. He played the 14-day trial, and that SHOULD be enough time for a person with other games in line that need reviewing to have an decent knowledge of what a game is like. It isnt' enough time for EVE, and will never be. Not even 21 days will be enough to get the gist, if I'm reading right. I'm not defending him. He did indeed miss out on the corps and therefore on the things that actually have made EVE what it is: an astounding simulation of human economy and politics. Yet, it's apparently also impossible to grasp these intricacies until you've been a player for a considerable amount of time, even when you are involved in PvP gameplay. If the point of the trial is for you to be able to extrapolate what the rest of the game will be like, then EVE fails, again. If the whole point of EVE is the Corps, and that is basically where all the fun is, then it shouldn't allow potential players to drift off where fun isn't at and not get them hooked. I too thought after my time "if this is how the rest of the game is going to be, screw this", and that is odd considering I fall squarely into the target audience.

I really wanted to like EVE. I'm a sci-fi fan, a gamer, and a geek. It's just too unwieldly and time intensive (not play time, but real-world time) to progress, that I just don't feel like paying my hard (and equally time-intensive) earned money on something that, honestly, resembles a job or an advanced college course than a hobby.

 

[Khazoth]

What confuses me is that the people who are smart enought to figure out when a game sucks are actualy the dummer people leaving the smarter people stil smart, but very dumb for playing such a boring piece of crap, but since they are dumb for that then dumb people would be considered smart, smart people would be considered dumb, but if smart is dumb then why is it wrong to dumb people who are actualy smart because they are wrong and dumb and the dumb and smart would be wright, but then where does that leave the average folk? Average?!

If you follow you are dumb and if you do not follow you are smart and I must be smart because this does not make any sense whitch means I am wrong but then if im smart im dumb.

*warning*- reading the following may cause massive head-ache.

What you have said is either brilliant or completely idiotic, as soon as I translate it into English I'll post and tell you.

To be serious for a moment.. He's ragged on Warcraft but you don't see me whining like an emo who lost his poetry book. EVE is what we call a polarizing game, you either absolutely hate it and everything about the bloody thing or you love it and want to devote yourself to finding proper ways to worship the people who make it. Why is it polarizing? It is not only hard to learn, it hostile in how hard it is to get into. Its for those hardcore of hardcore people who get wood over spreadsheets and math about their ship and and can do all this while in a PvP War and negotiating the trade of Han Solo in Carbonite.

 

[gasto]

I dislike MMO games, because of its unnecessary complications, and most of all, as Ben Croshaw pointed out, because of the pointless battles.

They are case studies for me, nonetheless.

 

[Leyvin]

As far as the whole WoW vs EVE debate goes...

EVE was released 2001, so yeah preceeds WoW by a few years.
EVE and WoW while sure are both MMO Games, they couldn't be more bloody different if the developers were even trying to be.

Neither is even trying to be even remotely like the other.
WoW are for short-attention span people who get easily hooked by the next shiney object in their path.

EVE on the other hand requires intelligence, and patience.

While I guess you could equate this to as Zahtzee said, "a game that doesn't want to be played" ... really what he should've said is that it is a game that doesn't require you to always play it to feel like you're achieving something.

A good example is while yes, I play EVE (actually log-in and play) for a few hours every week or so. I know that each time I do choose to log-in, often a new skill has just been completed and I can fly that new ship I wanted to... or equip some new stuff to my current ship(s) that gives them better chance in battle, or better for scavanging or just quicker at mining. It also is a nice peace of mind knowing that I can leave it for a week or so at a time, knowing that just because I didn't have the time to play due to a social life (sorry WoW players but other guild member helping on instanced quests does not count as a social life) doesn't mean that my character will suffer for this.

It's true that WoW has 12million players, while EVE Online only has 250,000-ish .. a huge difference is that when you're playing despite being much larger game, EVE never really feels like there aren't many people playing. There are always people online, some of them assholes, some of them (like myself) are often quite nice to new players helping them out financially or giving them equippment.

Actually funny story about that is I had left a Battleship (Rokh, fairly powerful PvP ship quite good for traveling in low-security systems with minimal police presence) in a part of space that would've taken me the better part of 40-50minutes to get to. So instead in the system-wide chat channel, I asked if anyone could be bothered to fly there I'd give it to them; simply to get rid of it. Someone jumped at the chance given it's worth around 30million in-game credits, which to new players is ALOT. Once you've got fairly established though it only takes a few days to earn (if that sometimes, depends on what you do).

I wouldn't say you'd always get lucky like that, but it happens from time to time. It's certainly not a rare sight to see newbies being given a million or so simply cause a longer-standing player feels like it. It is nice though that some people help you out like that.

Of course there is the flipside of players who just enjoy toying with newbies whenever they get outside of the safezones. With a war currently on between the nations, this also makes playing a bit more interesting.

Still there's quite a bit more to EVE beyond the surface, which is extremely different to current MMOGs. Corporations for example, you have the choice to run them (or join one) that is simply a clan; or one that has true in-game business aspirations... or maybe you want to join one that happens to own large portions of "freespace".

That is something truely interesting that after a month or two of play, often if you're playing with friends you can earn enough and get enough experience to attempt to make you're own space structures and lay claim to areas of low-sec systems or even try to claim the whole system.

There is current one corporation who last time I checked had nearly 30,000 members and owned basically 40% of the space outside of the core factions. Also happen to be the biggest pirate corporation reknown for solving their problems by simply starting a Corporate War, which in EVE generally doesn't mean buy-outs via stocks or putting another out of business financially but literally killing off members of that corporation (often taking prizes too... it's good fun to do sometimes).

While EVE may not be a hugely fast paced game, and it's depth might feel very overwhelming... it's UI is fairly iffy at times, and combat might deceptively seem like "bigger guns = you win a fight" (which btw, not true. I've seen some truely skilled pilots take out ships 2-3x better on paper with ease) ... it has it's moments.

When you experience one of those moments, trust me. You get hooked. The only thing I really wish is that it was a little more like the title that inspired it, Elite. Still it does have aspects for nearly every sort of player, just is a case of finding them and realising; You're not actually there alone in the universe.

 

[Khazoth]

I dislike MMO games, because of its unnecessary complications, and most of all, as Ben Croshaw pointed out, because of the pointless battles.

They are case studies for me, nonetheless.

For you, and people like you and Ben whom I think will never read this post, but one can hope...

I suggest this game http://www.cityofheroes.com/trial/index.html

I don't personally play it but its user friendly, unique, easy to get into, easy to learn, and there is nothing in this game that will confuse you. Its what games were designed to be, fun. There was even a post a year or so ago about someone who's four year old daughter who had learned to play this game.

 

[hondommond]

I watched my friend play this game...

I wanted to kill myself shortly after

 

[Traece]

Ah City of Heroes / Villains... A fantastic set of games they are. What World of Warcraft wishes it would've been. GOOD. Hah. The same guys who are making the Star Trek Online MMO.

EVE Online really is a fantastic place and it's BECAUSE it has a playerbase of a couple hundred-thousand players that it's such a great game. We're talking >1 players per cluster of five sectors in EVE. WoW is like... <1 thousand players per square foot. Pathetic...

 

[NoPantsMan]

4 minutes and 40 seconds and not ONE excel joke! Outstanding!

 

[gasto]

"I suggest this game http://www.cityofheroes.com/trial/index.html"

Seems to be same slow & dull combat.

 

[slyder35]

EVE = Eccentrics Version of Excel

I too could not last the 14 days, nor could I get into the "skill up while you sleep" concept. However it does have a loyal and vibrant player base and despite 95% of the gamer population finding many EVE concepts obtuse, that 5% should still be recognized and not beat into the ground like some sort of low-life cult club.

We all have different tastes, possibly Yahtzee should approach his cynical reviews (which are funny and enjoyable) with just a little bit more objectivity and judge the game in the setting of its genre and market demographic, not in the setting of his personal "I hate MMO" mindset. It would be like me reviewing sports and fighting games - 2 genres I can't stand - hence my reviews would be far too negative to be useful.

 

[typhado]

lol lots of truth, it's a niche game for a reason. like me who barely has enough time to play at times between all my assignments... other times I can be more active and I don't have to play "catch up" on exp in those times. Also I can't stand a class/level system... let me translate to wow: I wanna be able to switch between fire mage, ice mage, rouge while staying on the same character and not having to start from the level 1 noob character again (while not having a massively overpowered game).

He did miss a few of the good points like the fact that eve is a lot more friendly to noobs than a game like wow (week old noobs can actually be useful in group pvp). Also many of the ships look like giant a giant phalus =p

 

[Liatach]

HaHa I tried EVE for the first time two days ago, in my on going exploration of different MMO formats, managed to last about an hour and a half.
I share every quibble, particularly the interface, skills and same sameness of the environment.
great review mate,
looking forward to your take on Spore

 

[Lollingsgrad]

I tried playing Eve Online once, I took the 14 day trial and because I'd heard a similar harping on about how different it is I was determined to keep playing and spot the difference. In the end I did discover that it was unique, and playing the markets was even kind of fun, but I still got bored.

The problem is that the fun bits are the bits you do to get better at doing the really boring bits, which is shooting mobs and mining. Even the PvP isn't all that great, once you get a PvP going big enough to be interesting you're liable to crash whatever node you happen to be on. Rubbish.

 

[Thrashy]

Wow. As a former EVE player (I flew briefly with Omerta Syndicate and Exuro Mortis out in Fountain before I quit for good, if anybody who plays doubts my credentials -- should also date my exit fairly well, as I understand both groups dissolved shortly thereafter) I have to say that the review is pretty spot on. Not even the EVE forums are in disagreement!

The only issue I might take with the review is Yahtzee's neglect of the social aspect of the game; in a sense, the socialization IS the game, since much of what happens in EVE is directly or indirectly tied to player action, and one has to be politically aware to make much sense of it. The socialization (and by extension how active a role the players have in the game) is what has propelled the game through the years in spite of its clunky interface, thumb-twiddling gameplay mechanics, and infuriating skill system that leaves new players in a perpetual game of catch-up to get on an even footing with the veterans. The game has a fantastic-if-quirky playerbase that I still sometimes miss -- the shoe-on-head reference made me suddenly nostalgic for the Good Olde Days -- even though after a month or two of playing I would invariably get bored and frustrated and quit for a while.

And to those who complain that the playerbase is vicious and cutthroat: Yeah, that's kind of the point. Part of the fun of EVE has always been its no-holds-barred, zero-morality playing field. If you don't like it, fine, but understand that it's a huge draw for a lot of people, people who aren't necessarily griefers but simply like having the full range of action available to them. One of the most celebrated characters to play the game is best known for the complete and utter destruction of another player corp through betrayal and theft. What's better still is that he did it simply because somebody else payed him to do it! Curiously, this person quit the game over allegations a couple years back that the devs were stacking the deck in favor certain people. Although the folks who really enjoy playing will do anything within the limits of game mechanics to get ahead, most of them believe strongly that those mechanics should give everybody an equal opportunity to sink or swim.

You know, when I think of it, if CCP, the devs of EVE, would do just one thing, I would probably come back and play. That one thing would be to devise a way to bring the skillpoint and equipment gap between the old-timers and the johnny-come-latelies down to a manageable level. Certainly one shouldn't be able to fly a super-capitalship of doom right out of the gate, but I'd love to be able to take my neglected, currently 10-ish million SP character and be really and truly able to fight toe to toe with the people who've got five and ten times that many skillpoints and ridiculous ships and uber-expensive, super-powerful rare equipment to boot.

EDIT: Rokh... worth around 30million in-game credits: Seriously!? They're that cheap now? Time was I'd be lucky to snag a Ferox for that much...

 

[hayaki]

I have played...so many MMO's. And you know what?

You're so right. -sighs- I am one of those geeks, although I do wash and I put stuff on my face so I don't have pimples.

But this is a very bad example, I will admit. EVE was so boring. I think I played about...oh, two hours, and a great deal of that was going doo dooo doooooo dooooooooo oh, look what's on TV...dooo, doooooo....

And just a smilie thought: I've been watching every review since about the third (I just got off my lazy tusch and joined, didn't have anything to say but WHOO you RAWK which is hardly worth the space), and I don't think he's getting any less funny. I still laugh at least once a review.

ps. WHOO you RAWK, Yahtzee!

 

[Matty-C]

My best buddy is "playing" Eve every time I go to his house (which is why I try to avoid it at all costs), and I agree.

"Boring" is the perfect one-word synopsis.

 

[Lancks]

Yahtzee, you really need to stop playing MMOs as single player games. You can do that in WoW, but EvE is boring as hell if you play on your own. You sunk that review as soon as you said you would avoid player corporations. Players are what makes EvE fun - if you took a look at EvE politics, you'd quickly realize that the meat of the game is in the giant battle between the titanic alliances that make up most of the playerbase. Playing on your own in EvE is like sitting in the auction house in WoW, buying and selling crap. You may make a lot of money, but it'll be boring as hell.

Also, the whole point of the passive skill training system is so that hardcore gamerfreaks, like the ones you kept ragging on, don't have a huge advantage. A guy who has played for 3 years wont have a massive advantage in combat against someone who has played for 3 months - the veteran can jsut fly more ships, build more stuff, etc. Even a newly made character is useful in giant fleet battles of 300+ people. Good luck taking your level 1 Human Mage and joining in the level 70 battlegrounds of WoW.

You might want to give that another run and join a player corp - the good ones will have a mentor take you by hand and walk you through the basics so you aren't torn apart by pirates and griefers.

 

[beehive inferno]

I kinda agree to some of the points he brought up but i also think he missed allot of things. It take a long time to do anything in EVE and if your a patient of person it can be rewarding. the thing about EVE is that if you fly around and only do missions/mining you will be VERY bored and theres not much point to it. if you spend you money on a combat ship and do a little PVP i can get quite fun as far as mmo's go. i think the main draw of EVE is to train up your skills and get int bigger and bigger ships. thats why on the banners they always show the biggest ships in the game.

i also agree that most of the people in player corps are weirdos ad morons but thats were all the fun is. its very fun being one of those weirdos. some of the best times i had in gaming is when i got a few of the morons together into fleet and then go around low sec space and gank people. when you die in EVE you can loose a lot of money if your flying a nice ship so its quite rewarding when you know you made someone loose allot of money. to be honest i sometimes turn on my own corp mates for the shits and giggles.

im quite disappointed that he did not join a corp or do some pvp because then he could adress one of the games more serious issues, how unbalanced it is.

 

[Aptspire]

funny that the review is under a huge EVE banner
true, rewarding you for not playing is strange
also, I went into the space military for a reason
and even the ships are skill-based
You will have learned this skill in 3 frigging days...WTF?