Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

[typhado]

lol lots of truth, it's a niche game for a reason. like me who barely has enough time to play at times between all my assignments... other times I can be more active and I don't have to play "catch up" on exp in those times. Also I can't stand a class/level system... let me translate to wow: I wanna be able to switch between fire mage, ice mage, rouge while staying on the same character and not having to start from the level 1 noob character again (while not having a massively overpowered game).

He did miss a few of the good points like the fact that eve is a lot more friendly to noobs than a game like wow (week old noobs can actually be useful in group pvp). Also many of the ships look like giant a giant phalus =p

 

[Liatach]

HaHa I tried EVE for the first time two days ago, in my on going exploration of different MMO formats, managed to last about an hour and a half.
I share every quibble, particularly the interface, skills and same sameness of the environment.
great review mate,
looking forward to your take on Spore

 

[Lollingsgrad]

I tried playing Eve Online once, I took the 14 day trial and because I'd heard a similar harping on about how different it is I was determined to keep playing and spot the difference. In the end I did discover that it was unique, and playing the markets was even kind of fun, but I still got bored.

The problem is that the fun bits are the bits you do to get better at doing the really boring bits, which is shooting mobs and mining. Even the PvP isn't all that great, once you get a PvP going big enough to be interesting you're liable to crash whatever node you happen to be on. Rubbish.

 

[Thrashy]

Wow. As a former EVE player (I flew briefly with Omerta Syndicate and Exuro Mortis out in Fountain before I quit for good, if anybody who plays doubts my credentials -- should also date my exit fairly well, as I understand both groups dissolved shortly thereafter) I have to say that the review is pretty spot on. Not even the EVE forums are in disagreement!

The only issue I might take with the review is Yahtzee's neglect of the social aspect of the game; in a sense, the socialization IS the game, since much of what happens in EVE is directly or indirectly tied to player action, and one has to be politically aware to make much sense of it. The socialization (and by extension how active a role the players have in the game) is what has propelled the game through the years in spite of its clunky interface, thumb-twiddling gameplay mechanics, and infuriating skill system that leaves new players in a perpetual game of catch-up to get on an even footing with the veterans. The game has a fantastic-if-quirky playerbase that I still sometimes miss -- the shoe-on-head reference made me suddenly nostalgic for the Good Olde Days -- even though after a month or two of playing I would invariably get bored and frustrated and quit for a while.

And to those who complain that the playerbase is vicious and cutthroat: Yeah, that's kind of the point. Part of the fun of EVE has always been its no-holds-barred, zero-morality playing field. If you don't like it, fine, but understand that it's a huge draw for a lot of people, people who aren't necessarily griefers but simply like having the full range of action available to them. One of the most celebrated characters to play the game is best known for the complete and utter destruction of another player corp through betrayal and theft. What's better still is that he did it simply because somebody else payed him to do it! Curiously, this person quit the game over allegations a couple years back that the devs were stacking the deck in favor certain people. Although the folks who really enjoy playing will do anything within the limits of game mechanics to get ahead, most of them believe strongly that those mechanics should give everybody an equal opportunity to sink or swim.

You know, when I think of it, if CCP, the devs of EVE, would do just one thing, I would probably come back and play. That one thing would be to devise a way to bring the skillpoint and equipment gap between the old-timers and the johnny-come-latelies down to a manageable level. Certainly one shouldn't be able to fly a super-capitalship of doom right out of the gate, but I'd love to be able to take my neglected, currently 10-ish million SP character and be really and truly able to fight toe to toe with the people who've got five and ten times that many skillpoints and ridiculous ships and uber-expensive, super-powerful rare equipment to boot.

EDIT: Rokh... worth around 30million in-game credits: Seriously!? They're that cheap now? Time was I'd be lucky to snag a Ferox for that much...

 

[hayaki]

I have played...so many MMO's. And you know what?

You're so right. -sighs- I am one of those geeks, although I do wash and I put stuff on my face so I don't have pimples.

But this is a very bad example, I will admit. EVE was so boring. I think I played about...oh, two hours, and a great deal of that was going doo dooo doooooo dooooooooo oh, look what's on TV...dooo, doooooo....

And just a smilie thought: I've been watching every review since about the third (I just got off my lazy tusch and joined, didn't have anything to say but WHOO you RAWK which is hardly worth the space), and I don't think he's getting any less funny. I still laugh at least once a review.

ps. WHOO you RAWK, Yahtzee!

 

[Matty-C]

My best buddy is "playing" Eve every time I go to his house (which is why I try to avoid it at all costs), and I agree.

"Boring" is the perfect one-word synopsis.

 

[Lancks]

Yahtzee, you really need to stop playing MMOs as single player games. You can do that in WoW, but EvE is boring as hell if you play on your own. You sunk that review as soon as you said you would avoid player corporations. Players are what makes EvE fun - if you took a look at EvE politics, you'd quickly realize that the meat of the game is in the giant battle between the titanic alliances that make up most of the playerbase. Playing on your own in EvE is like sitting in the auction house in WoW, buying and selling crap. You may make a lot of money, but it'll be boring as hell.

Also, the whole point of the passive skill training system is so that hardcore gamerfreaks, like the ones you kept ragging on, don't have a huge advantage. A guy who has played for 3 years wont have a massive advantage in combat against someone who has played for 3 months - the veteran can jsut fly more ships, build more stuff, etc. Even a newly made character is useful in giant fleet battles of 300+ people. Good luck taking your level 1 Human Mage and joining in the level 70 battlegrounds of WoW.

You might want to give that another run and join a player corp - the good ones will have a mentor take you by hand and walk you through the basics so you aren't torn apart by pirates and griefers.

 

[beehive inferno]

I kinda agree to some of the points he brought up but i also think he missed allot of things. It take a long time to do anything in EVE and if your a patient of person it can be rewarding. the thing about EVE is that if you fly around and only do missions/mining you will be VERY bored and theres not much point to it. if you spend you money on a combat ship and do a little PVP i can get quite fun as far as mmo's go. i think the main draw of EVE is to train up your skills and get int bigger and bigger ships. thats why on the banners they always show the biggest ships in the game.

i also agree that most of the people in player corps are weirdos ad morons but thats were all the fun is. its very fun being one of those weirdos. some of the best times i had in gaming is when i got a few of the morons together into fleet and then go around low sec space and gank people. when you die in EVE you can loose a lot of money if your flying a nice ship so its quite rewarding when you know you made someone loose allot of money. to be honest i sometimes turn on my own corp mates for the shits and giggles.

im quite disappointed that he did not join a corp or do some pvp because then he could adress one of the games more serious issues, how unbalanced it is.

 

[Aptspire]

funny that the review is under a huge EVE banner
true, rewarding you for not playing is strange
also, I went into the space military for a reason
and even the ships are skill-based
You will have learned this skill in 3 frigging days...WTF?

 

[Malazar]

I must admit, I wasn't expecting an EvE review, simply because it's been out donky's years, however, I found this video to be most ammusing. not the funniest review so far, however, that may be partly because I was actually thinking "Hm, actually, that's a fair point".

Still, I like eve (yeah, shush), at the same time as agreeing with pretty much everything that was said. 14 days of the trial is, in many ways, not enough to see it all, but, as long as you're staying in the regular zones, it certainly is, and let's face it, the deep space wild-west stuff is far too time consuming anyway. This is a flaw with reviews of MMOs - you can't possibly review everything - there's not enough time, and it would be unfair to expect anyone to dedicate enough time to review the whole game, the best that can be done is a pretty good overview of most of the content.

job done. and looking forward to the next game to be demolished
(here's hoping spore gets done eventually, because, frankly, i'm sick of hearing that it's the best thing since sliced bread - and that's before the full game was released - there must be something wrong with it?)

 

[sabotstarr]

ya i almost joined eve......but then i saw that you had to download it...which ment that it sucked too much to get a giant production quota for disks.....and not a nice easy game that you can play off the internet....

 

[Tibike77]

[...]The worst part about it is that the cruiser, while being bigger, has a harder time than a smaller ship, the destroyer, at blowing up frigates due to the whole speed issue. And while you could equip it with larger weapons, the weapons also were slower tracking that made it just not worth using a cruiser in the trial(unless there is some sort of shortcut to get to the level 2 mission givers that I don't know about).

Actually, there is
More precisely, there are two ways.

First and simplest way ?
Train "Social" to level 3 (should take between 3 and 8 hours tops, depending on school and attributes), some starter choices already have that trained, the rest will have to buy the skill (it's cheap as dirt anyway, around 18k ISK)... after that buy and train "Connections" (this one you certainly don't already have) to at least level 2 (that would be just a couple of hours, tops), preferably level 3. This skill is slightly less cheap, but still affordable (somewhere around 180k ISK - don't confuce it with any of the " Connections" which are good for something else and cost 15-20 mil ISK a piece).
With Connections trained to L2 (or L3), you should have access to some (or most, if you train to level 3) of the "Level 2 agents" almost instantly.

Second (needs social interaction) way ?
Ask an older (and very friendly) player to take you with him on a L3 or L4 mission, and "split" the standings gains at the end.
A single L4 standings split is worth more than a dozen L1 missions with regards to standings.
You can even gain access to L4 agents in your first day this way... but you'd have to repay him somehow, because he just did you a HUGE favor.

 

[Donrad]

hehe i loved this review ^^
for some reason it felt... too short?

 

[WarlockD]

Tried to get my friend into Eve, but the only time the game IS fun is with a player run corp out in space. But then it starts getting drama filled.

He is right, its a game for nerds by nerds. I think what describes is best is how my friend put it. "Its like one big SQL database where people swap numbers."

 

[shaun832]

It seemed kinda awkward since I was watching it with the Eve Online advertisement sitting right next to it, staring at me, mocking me.

 

[007murdoc]

whats a good RPG or MMORPG you would recomend

 

[Sir_Substance]

i was watching this while playing EVE.

first, i cant argue with anything you said in there. the interface is horrible, the mechanics of combat are no different to other MMO's.

but, i find it endlessly compelling. ive been playing for about a year now, and i still love it. by not joining a corp, you have let the eve experience run right by you though. the corps you've seen on the eve forums arnt the kind of corp id go for, i prefer a more casual bunch, like the lot im with now.

anyway, in all honesty, i dont think your the kind of person for eve. its a love it-hate it game. i very much like the skill training system, because it means i dont have to play ALL the time, like other MMO's, to stay competitive.

but also, 14 days isnt really enough for you to get some of the finer details of the game under your belt. hell, i regularly spend longer then 14 days training for a skill. eve is a long term game.

 

[Xennith]

This review was really interesting to me, while maintaining the entertainment quality I have come to expect from watching Zero Punctuation reviews.

What confuses me is that during the Age of Conan review, Yahtzee specifically mentions that an MMO, practically by definition, should be about going out and smashing faces WITH OTHER PEOPLE. Despite this, his approach to playing EVE online was decidedly introverted and resulted in exactly the result that anyone who has played EVE for any extended period of time would expect.

After having played EVE for a little over a year now, I can wholeheartedly agree with most of the negative assessments that are commonly brought to bear against EVE:
- It's so huge that it's unapproachable.
- The playerbase is a bunch of bloodthirsty wankers.
- Accomplishing anything takes abnormally huge amounts of time.
- The gameplay is complicated and grudgingly slow at the best of times.
- Did we mention the WANKERS.

In the end, just about any MMO you play, at the highest level, is going to be like having a second job. By nature, the genre focuses on long-term play of the title until you've reached the upper limit of character development, then going back and repeating the parts of the game you personally find entertaining over and over again.
EVE Online tries to differ from this by making the whole game repetitive and boring when you look at the gameplay, but removes the glass ceiling, as it were, from character advancement, allowing a player to continually grow his experience in the game for YEARS, if he so chooses, and executes it in a fashion that doesn't wholly absorb your life.
Sure, there are always going to be the players in a game's community that do nothing but play the game every waking hour while fondling themselves to the thought of how hardcore they are, but at least with EVE the character advancement can be done in the background while you go on about your normal life of being a human being, or, like many people, while you go and play other video games. This leaves the time you spend actually playing the game for the quest for fame, fortune and glory rather than killing the same bunnies, wolves, and spiders over and over again... although a player can still do that in EVE if they want to, but any MMO is going to be like that.
At least with EVE it's not the all consuming necessity to simply play it for hours with no end, but still manages to provide incentives for long-term play that allow you to continually expand your experiences in the universe into a variety of expanding and equally boring fields.

Then, there is the be-all-end-all of EVE hatred: The people in it. The whining, obsessive, violent and misogynistic populous which would rather stick it to their fellow man than work constructively with everyone else in the world, which is NOTHING like how the real world works... right? RIGHT!?
In the end, I have to agree with the complaint that players in EVE, on average, don't give a damn that the damage you inflict on other players is actually creating a deficit to their potential enjoyment of the game and that it actually destroys whatever amount of time they spent in the universe acquiring their ship.
As awful as it is to my better judgment, players like to suspend their morality when they play a game with a perceived intent, and too many EVE players assume that BECAUSE YOU CAN kill other players any time you want, the objective of the game is to do so, and doing so in now way represents you as a gigantic flaming bunghead.
In reality, the game should be about doing whatever you want, but it should also encourage you to apply ethics and compassion... but nobody seems to see the fun in that. HOORAY FOR KILLING.

tl;dr - Judgement was accurate. Should really have tried being part of a corp. God, EVE players are dicks.

 

[Shaamaan_Old]

Y'know, I think a lot of people forget that Yahtzee approaches a game from a particular angle, with a particular goal in mind: Enjoyable, thoughtful entertainment that you can get into quickly, without depending on a lot of other people to make the whole thing fun.(...)

I've cut the quote not to spam. But Wolf got it spot on!

 

[keyton777]

[NSFW]

Too lazy to read all of this, but for anyone who wanted the "delightful porn" mentioned in the video go here: "http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Yahtzee".

Scroll about halfway down the page and-BAM!-there it is on the right.

[/NSFW]

out of curiostity i took a look at that site and i came accross something in the durnk idiot that made that description of ZP.........i could swear he was a pretentious dick.....and the funny part was he reminded me of yahtzee in a (forgive the EXTREAMLY nerdy reference but its the only one that comes to mind) drizzt/entreri kinda way