In previous Fallout installments, Karma had an effect on who would help you and what they did for you. It was more than an arbitrary measure of how good or bad you were, It changed the way the game unfolded.remnant_phoenix said:Weird. He seemed to lament the absence of a karma meter, yet in the past he's said, direct quoting here, "karma meters are bulls***". I wonder if he's changed his mind about moral choice systems.
I think this time is because Karma in fallout wasn't exactly a locked in thing where you only got the best weapon if you were all good or all evil. It made certain quests or companions unavailable, but they tended to be the same quest dressed up differently. Plus you could always have a change of heart: like blow up Megaton so you could get a suite in Tenpenny Tower, but then rescue every fair maiden in the land out of pure selflessness and get max Karma.remnant_phoenix said:Weird. He seemed to lament the absence of a karma meter, yet in the past he's said, direct quoting here, "karma meters are bulls***". I wonder if he's changed his mind about moral choice systems.
Given the context, I think it was more a case of the complete lack of consequence to the actions that annoyed. While a Karma system is basically cr4p, a reputation system whereby you're punished/rewarded for certain actions (Which had better be well signposted!) by various factions within a game and you can tailor your play to side with/antagonise whomever you so choose is generally speaking a good thing. Y'know, all that player agency and meaningful choice jazz that reviewers are always going on about. Look at the Tomb Raider review, the upgrade choices are meaningless as you can get everything anyway, all you're picking is the order in which they are unlocked (outside of the enforced gating). You don't get to make Lara a sneaky/stealthy Archaeo-ninja at the expense of melee prowess/weapon proficiency so the choice is basically irrelevant.remnant_phoenix said:Weird. He seemed to lament the absence of a karma meter, yet in the past he's said, direct quoting here, "karma meters are bulls***". I wonder if he's changed his mind about moral choice systems.
He think he just cited them because they were Fallout's previous way of having players feel consequences about the morality of their actions. If the series had had a different way of doing that, he'd have cited that one instead. I don't think it's so much that he's missing the karma meter in particular, but rather than he's missing any consequence, any feedback for roleplaying an asshole.remnant_phoenix said:Weird. He seemed to lament the absence of a karma meter, yet in the past he's said, direct quoting here, "karma meters are bulls***". I wonder if he's changed his mind about moral choice systems.
I'd say, that karma systems are a shallow and unimmersive way to handle consequences for your actions, but still deeper and more immersive than your actions having no consequences at all which was what he was complaining about here. That's my opinion though; I don't really know what Yahtzee thinks on the matter.remnant_phoenix said:Weird. He seemed to lament the absence of a karma meter, yet in the past he's said, direct quoting here, "karma meters are bulls***". I wonder if he's changed his mind about moral choice systems.
(SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T PLAY FO4 YET)Yahtzee Croshaw said:Fallout 4
This week, Zero Punctuation reviews Fallout 4.
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Marik Bentusi said:He think he just cited them because they were Fallout's previous way of having players feel consequences about the morality of their actions. If the series had had a different way of doing that, he'd have cited that one instead. I don't think it's so much that he's missing the karma meter in particular, but rather than he's missing any consequence, any feedback for roleplaying an asshole.remnant_phoenix said:Weird. He seemed to lament the absence of a karma meter, yet in the past he's said, direct quoting here, "karma meters are bulls***". I wonder if he's changed his mind about moral choice systems.
That makes sense. Maybe I should let my thoughts marinate more before posting them.Pseudonym said:I'd say, that karma systems are a shallow and unimmersive way to handle consequences for your actions, but still deeper and more immersive than your actions having no consequences at all which was what he was complaining about here. That's my opinion though; I don't really know what Yahtzee thinks on the matter.remnant_phoenix said:Weird. He seemed to lament the absence of a karma meter, yet in the past he's said, direct quoting here, "karma meters are bulls***". I wonder if he's changed his mind about moral choice systems.
As many have stated there are two major factors, one the fallout karma meters actually have an effect on gameplay, NPC's will react differently to you and the game unfolds differently, and two, in a game where Yahtzee criticized the moral choice system (Dishonored) the game wasn't an RPG and the "moral choice" system was merely a gate that forced you to deliberately ignore game mechanics just for the sake of not getting the bad endingremnant_phoenix said:Weird. He seemed to lament the absence of a karma meter, yet in the past he's said, direct quoting here, "karma meters are bulls***". I wonder if he's changed his mind about moral choice systems.
I spoiler-tagged your question for you. To answer:rocker1600 said:(SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T PLAY FO4 YET)
Isn't the fact that your child is one the main leaders of one of the factions a big emotional investment for your character.