Zero Punctuation: Fifth Console Generation

[rocker1600]

So what lessons wasn't learned?

Also, even if it's late, Happy 10th ZP Anniversary, everybody?

 

[MattH]

I'd guess he was one of the obnoxious Playstation "cool kids". It's just fitting that he's now abusing his position for such belated propaganda and street-credibility trash-talk out of nowhere (because you know Tony Hawke's skateboarding is cooler and more adult than Mario [SM64 was a revelation to Gabe Newell, calling it art and even comparing it even to GTA...]). I think he should go back to pretending to being a vaguely literary Terry Pratchett-knockoff, or simply the hottest thing in online video game reviews, than getting into such odd mires all of a sudden.

(P.S.: I replay almost nothing, ever. I just can't give a damn. Just saying, regarding some potential stereotypes.)

 

[Necris Omega]

I know people like to say that Nintendo are doing their own thing, but they're really not. The Switch is being marketed as a console, so naturally, people are going to hold it to the same standards as the PS4 and Xbone. I guess what I'm saying is, you can bury your head in a helmet full of gummy bears as much as you want, but sooner or later, those gummy bears will all be eaten, and Nintendo will see that if they want to stay in the game, that they will have to play by the big boys rules.

They must have a lot of these gummybears given they don't do that since the Wii, especially in terms of online multiplayer.

"Console" is only slightly more specific than "vehicle" - a comparison at such a high altitude overview that the observer needs an oxygen mask and parachute.

You can call what Nintendo does "innovative" or "gimmicky" but if you have to acknowledge that they're being different - even "well they'll have to start playing by the 'big boy' rules" implies that they're not following standards or trends.

 

[Bindal]

I know people like to say that Nintendo are doing their own thing, but they're really not. The Switch is being marketed as a console, so naturally, people are going to hold it to the same standards as the PS4 and Xbone. I guess what I'm saying is, you can bury your head in a helmet full of gummy bears as much as you want, but sooner or later, those gummy bears will all be eaten, and Nintendo will see that if they want to stay in the game, that they will have to play by the big boys rules.

They must have a lot of these gummybears given they don't do that since the Wii, especially in terms of online multiplayer.

"Console" is only slightly more specific than "vehicle" - a comparison at such a high altitude overview that the observer needs an oxygen mask and parachute.

You can call what Nintendo does "innovative" or "gimmicky" but if you have to acknowledge that they're being different - even "well they'll have to start playing by the 'big boy' rules" implies that they're not following standards or trends.

Yes. And while in some ways, that's what makes them competition by not being competition (if that makes any sense to you), in other ways, that makes them just ancient. The online multiplayer on their console had always some serious things lacking that were standard pretty much since the original XBox.
For crying out loud, you need a smartphone and an app to use voicechat in Splatoon 2. Something Sony and Microsoft, with their consoles, had implemented natively into their systems three generations ago (even if it was not as common in that era to have voice chat at all)

 

[onard]

You know, although it's true that Sony did offer to make a CD console with Nintendo, what wasn't mentioned on the video was that Sony also wanted full rights to any Nintendo game that was made for it, plus licensing fees. Nintendo had a lot to lose from accepting the deal as it would leave Sony fully on the driver's seat.

More details
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_NES_CD-ROM

Nintendo then did try to support CDs by making a contract with Philips for CD-I console, and we got such "wonderful" games like The Legend of Zelda and the Wand of Gamelot/Faces of Evil and Hotel Mario.

So yes things went pretty bad for Nintendo then, but even if they had accepted the original deal, they could've easily ended as some obscure 3rd party developer under Sony's thumb. We would've never seen the DS showing the potential of touch screens or the Wii who showed the potential of motion controls and by extension VR or Zelda Breath of the Wild, etc, etc.

 

[gorfias]

N64 > PS1.

PS2 though, now -that- was a console.

I didn't own a PS1 and missed the Final Fantasy games. I hear they are great but I tried 7 once and found it too outdated after having played 10.

I think the PS1 also, in its later iterations, had the first dual analogue controller, which is a must but it wasn't much used for the PS1. Wrong?

By PS2 they had the first console to really perfect that control scheme. To this day, PS2 games are still very playable.

I think the N64 games have aged better than the PS1. While today, I hate the controller, I have a number of N64 games that have been put on the Gamecube and Xbox One. They're still pretty good.

 

[Bindal]

I think the PS1 also, in its later iterations, had the first dual analogue controller, which is a must but it wasn't much used for the PS1. Wrong?

Sort of. The first controller for the PS1 didn't have any analog sticks at all. It became standard later, hence why quite a few games either made the stick and the D-Pad do the same thing or never actually use the sticks in any way. I think the Ape Escape game is the only one that required them.

Sony did set the gold standard for how the rough layout for a controller should be with the Dual Shock 1, however as they use the same layout now for three generations after the PS1 and even the XBox mimics it (even if the D-Pad and left Stick are swapped) and the Game Cube tried some thing similar as well.

 

[Spade Lead]

N64 > PS1.

PS2 though, now -that- was a console.

I didn't own a PS1 and missed the Final Fantasy games. I hear they are great but I tried 7 once and found it too outdated after having played 10.

I think the PS1 also, in its later iterations, had the first dual analogue controller, which is a must but it wasn't much used for the PS1. Wrong?

By PS2 they had the first console to really perfect that control scheme. To this day, PS2 games are still very playable.

I think the N64 games have aged better than the PS1. While today, I hate the controller, I have a number of N64 games that have been put on the Gamecube and Xbox One. They're still pretty good.

I picked up Rogue Squadron 3D (64) on Steam for a negligible price (Less than $3) just to play my favorite N64 game. The graphics aren't Earth Shattering, and are definitely dated, but they are still easily playable, and with my XBox 360 controller, great fun, despite a bug that wasn't present in the PC version.

Still, PS2 is absolutely the best console of all time, with almost all of my fondness and memories of them being much better story and more fun gameplay than most games now have. I picked up Ace Combat 5 a while back, and it was still truly amazing, and that wasn't even my favorite Ace Combat, and Battlefront II is still the best Star Wars game ever made.

While the N64 bashing was over the top, he really didn't explain much of what ANY console did right that generation, and we all have not forgotten that Halo 1 gave XBox their mascot that to this day sells consoles (I got the XBOne simply because I wanted my first XBox to play my first ever own copy of Halo on).

Of course, PS3 and 4 have inFamous, a game I would put up as one of the best I have played on the PS3's generation.

 

[Bedinsis]

I'm disappointed by the "Lessons nobody learned" segment. Seems like he was trying to make a generalized comment of Sony doing well, since they evidently did well, before realizing that there were a whole lot of companies trying to what Sony did that did not do well.

 

[Rangaman]

Hey now, the 3D Zeldas are good. Aside from the crappy framrate. Also, Paper Mario.

On the Saturn failing, anyone who says the Saturn failed because "it didn't have Sonic" is talking out of their arse. Sony started off with a brand new mascot and sold shedloads. Nintendo launched the N64 with a 3D Mario game, yet there were only 30 million N64s sold (as opposed to 80 million PlayStations). Mascots stopped being as relevant in the fifth gen simply because the audience for videogames was getting older. The Saturn failed because it was overpriced and underpowered. Legitimately fantastic titles (some of which are still playable) can only go so far.

N64 > PS1.

PS2 though, now -that- was a console.

Let's agree to disagree. Crash Bandicoot, Castlevania, Megaman X4, Vagrant Story, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy Tactics...the PSX had a pretty solid and varied line-up. The N64, by contrast, had an extremely limited selection of games. Most of its big name titles were platformers and shooters, both of which now play like crap.

The PS2 is pretty fantastic, on the other hand.

 

[Saelune]

Hey now, the 3D Zeldas are good. Aside from the crappy framrate. Also, Paper Mario.

On the Saturn failing, anyone who says the Saturn failed because "it didn't have Sonic" is talking out of their arse. Sony started off with a brand new mascot and sold shedloads. Nintendo launched the N64 with a 3D Mario game, yet there were only 30 million N64s sold (as opposed to 80 million PlayStations). Mascots stopped being as relevant in the fifth gen simply because the audience for videogames was getting older. The Saturn failed because it was overpriced and underpowered. Legitimately fantastic titles (some of which are still playable) can only go so far.

N64 > PS1.

PS2 though, now -that- was a console.

Let's agree to disagree. Crash Bandicoot, Castlevania, Megaman X4, Vagrant Story, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy Tactics...the PSX had a pretty solid and varied line-up. The N64, by contrast, had an extremely limited selection of games. Most of its big name titles were platformers and shooters, both of which now play like crap.

The PS2 is pretty fantastic, on the other hand.

Crash is garbage. MGS is great though. The N64 has ann amazing selection of games, tons of unappreciated gems too. And the games play fine, the controller just sucks though, wont pretend the N64 controller is one of the worst ever, but its not the games fault.

 

[Bindal]

Crash is garbage. MGS is great though. The N64 has ann amazing selection of games, tons of unappreciated gems too. And the games play fine, the controller just sucks though, wont pretend the N64 controller is one of the worst ever, but its not the games fault.

Crash is probably the best 3D Platformer we got (especially 2 and 3), probably even better than the Super Mario Collect-A-Thon.

 

[Saelune]

Crash is garbage. MGS is great though. The N64 has ann amazing selection of games, tons of unappreciated gems too. And the games play fine, the controller just sucks though, wont pretend the N64 controller is one of the worst ever, but its not the games fault.

Crash is probably the best 3D Platformer we got (especially 2 and 3), probably even better than the Super Mario Collect-A-Thon.

 

[Rangaman]

Crash is garbage.

Ever hear of subjective opinions? Personally, I find that SM64 is a game that not only looks terrible by N64 standards, but controls like greased puppy on an ice rink (and that's not even mentioning the camera). Crash, by contrast, controls pretty smoothly, looks...well, it looks as good as an early 3D game can, to put it nicely. It also doesn't have the problems with platforming that most other 3D platformers have (where the biggest challenge is trying to land on the fucking platform).

The N64 has ann amazing selection of games, tons of unappreciated gems too.

I'm not saying that there aren't great games on the N64. I'm saying that (comparatively speaking) there really aren't a lot of them. And every console (including the PSX) has a few "unappreciated gems".

And the games play fine,

Goldeneye and Perfect Dark certainly don't.

the controller just sucks though, wont pretend the N64 controller is one of the worst ever, but its not the games fault.

It is a pretty godawful controller (mind you, SEGA's NiGHTS controller wasn't any better). I'm not blaming the games for the problems that most everyone has with the N64 controller, I'm blaming the games for largely being slippery, imprecise and clunky, regardless of what controller you're using.

 

[Rangaman]

So... what exactly did the industry not learn? He kind of skipped over that part to pay lip service to the also-rans.

-That being the first to jump into bed with a new technology isn't always a wise choice in the long run.
-That consumer's trust and brand loyalty will only go so far.
-That a recognizable mascot from a previous generation isn't guaranteed to give you the edge over the competition.

That's what I took away from the video. On a sidenote, the YT comments section is going to be hell.

 

[darkrage6]

Disc technology has not become stagnant yet, and Nintendo's move to flash memory isn't such a smart move considering it can't store nearly as much GB of data as the other consoles can with their discs.

No, discs have hit a serious wall. Blu-ray is struggling to beef itself up, not helped by the tech being exposed as a stopgap for streaming with its only application really being videogames. Meanwhile flash tech prices plummet every other month so it's not out of the question for Nintendo to beef their carts past their current 32GB max setting. Seriously, when you can stuff a game as gigantic as Breath of the Wild onto a Switch cart, it's clear they're not in any danger

I definitely wouldn't say that.

 

[darkrage6]

Less spot on this time, because in Yahtzee's enthusiasm to critically disassemble the facades created by nostalgia-colored glasses, I think he overshot a bit and ended up forgetting how some good things were accomplished by jumping on the not-as-necessary-as-we-thought 3D bandwagon.

For example, he talks about the Nintendo 64 like it was a terrible botched experiment, but we saw some great games on there that still do stand up to the test of time, such as Paper Mario, Super Smash Brothers, and of course Ocarina Of Time/Majora's Mask. The core gameplay of these games performed so well that they formed the pillar of major franchises that are active to this day.

His assessment of the other 5th generation consoles also seems to be disregarding how there were some great games that formed some major gaming foundations. It was actually a pretty good and exciting generation that produced progress... current generations can't say the same.

At least he's spot on that Nintendo's elitism did alienate a lot of third parties at around that time, something they still have not completely lived down.

I don't think those games stand the test of time at all, especially not Ocarina of Time.

 

[darkrage6]

Less spot on this time, because in Yahtzee's enthusiasm to critically disassemble the facades created by nostalgia-colored glasses, I think he overshot a bit and ended up forgetting how some good things were accomplished by jumping on the not-as-necessary-as-we-thought 3D bandwagon.

For example, he talks about the Nintendo 64 like it was a terrible botched experiment, but we saw some great games on there that still do stand up to the test of time, such as Paper Mario, Super Smash Brothers, and of course Ocarina Of Time/Majora's Mask. The core gameplay of these games performed so well that they formed the pillar of major franchises that are active to this day.

His assessment of the other 5th generation consoles also seems to be disregarding how there were some great games that formed some major gaming foundations. It was actually a pretty good and exciting generation that produced progress... current generations can't say the same.

At least he's spot on that Nintendo's elitism did alienate a lot of third parties at around that time, something they still have not completely lived down.

I don't think those games stand the test of time at all, especially not Ocarina of Time.

N64 > PS1.

PS2 though, now -that- was a console.

I didn't own a PS1 and missed the Final Fantasy games. I hear they are great but I tried 7 once and found it too outdated after having played 10.

I think the PS1 also, in its later iterations, had the first dual analogue controller, which is a must but it wasn't much used for the PS1. Wrong?

By PS2 they had the first console to really perfect that control scheme. To this day, PS2 games are still very playable.

I think the N64 games have aged better than the PS1. While today, I hate the controller, I have a number of N64 games that have been put on the Gamecube and Xbox One. They're still pretty good.

I picked up Rogue Squadron 3D (64) on Steam for a negligible price (Less than $3) just to play my favorite N64 game. The graphics aren't Earth Shattering, and are definitely dated, but they are still easily playable, and with my XBox 360 controller, great fun, despite a bug that wasn't present in the PC version.

Still, PS2 is absolutely the best console of all time, with almost all of my fondness and memories of them being much better story and more fun gameplay than most games now have. I picked up Ace Combat 5 a while back, and it was still truly amazing, and that wasn't even my favorite Ace Combat, and Battlefront II is still the best Star Wars game ever made.

While the N64 bashing was over the top, he really didn't explain much of what ANY console did right that generation, and we all have not forgotten that Halo 1 gave XBox their mascot that to this day sells consoles (I got the XBOne simply because I wanted my first XBox to play my first ever own copy of Halo on).

Of course, PS3 and 4 have inFamous, a game I would put up as one of the best I have played on the PS3's generation.

I wouldn't call it the best console of all time, it was lacking in power compared to the Gamecube and Xbox, as such multiplatform titles released on the PS2 always tended to be the worst versions(the Max Payne games are nigh on unplayable on PS2 because of the godawful framerate).

 

[darkrage6]

Hey now, the 3D Zeldas are good. Aside from the crappy framrate. Also, Paper Mario.

On the Saturn failing, anyone who says the Saturn failed because "it didn't have Sonic" is talking out of their arse. Sony started off with a brand new mascot and sold shedloads. Nintendo launched the N64 with a 3D Mario game, yet there were only 30 million N64s sold (as opposed to 80 million PlayStations). Mascots stopped being as relevant in the fifth gen simply because the audience for videogames was getting older. The Saturn failed because it was overpriced and underpowered. Legitimately fantastic titles (some of which are still playable) can only go so far.

N64 > PS1.

PS2 though, now -that- was a console.

Let's agree to disagree. Crash Bandicoot, Castlevania, Megaman X4, Vagrant Story, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy Tactics...the PSX had a pretty solid and varied line-up. The N64, by contrast, had an extremely limited selection of games. Most of its big name titles were platformers and shooters, both of which now play like crap.

The PS2 is pretty fantastic, on the other hand.

I think a proper 3-D Sonic absolutely would've sold systems, Zelda sure as sold Switch systems.