Zero Punctuation: Firewatch & Layers of Fear

wallstaples

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I'm really, really tired of all the hate these kind of games get. They're niche. Most people won't like them. If you don't like them, fine, but don't burst down the clubhouse door and demand that they accommodate you. I don't like MOBAs, but I'm not going to go to the comments for everything MOBA-related and say they're stupid. I understand that different people have different tastes, and that DOTA and LoL are very well-made for their target audience. No one is forcing you to play walking simulators. If you know you don't like them, just don't.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Alright! Nothing brightens up my day like seeing Yahtzee tear apart walking simulators, as interesting as Firewatchs dialogue is, the walking part is still tedious and not being able to run and hold your map at the time reeks of bad design, this is the type of game i'd rather watch someone else play then actually suffer through all the tedious walking bits myself just to get to the good bits.

Layers of Fear? Sounds more like layers of shite, at least Evil Within changed things up enough to stay interesting all the way through, this game just sounds boring as fuck.

Can't wait to see Yahtzee review Far Cry Primal next week, I can see him absolutely hating it for how much it removed from previous games in the series, it looks like one of the most boring games of all time.
 

Dalisclock

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So Yathzee isn't being invited to my house anytime soon, because I like it spider-free and unburnt down.

And what he said is pretty much what everyone is saying about Layers of Fear, that it's pretty shit.
 

CWestfall

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I haven't played Layers of Fear, but to me the Firewatch stuff was more or less on point. It's a good game for about two and a half hours, then a bit of an anticlimax, before a pretty OK denouement. Really, if the grand reveal of the central mystery had been almost anything else, it would have been a great game. As it stands I dunno if I'd give it an unqualified recommendation to friends.
 

MrFalconfly

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wallstaples said:
I'm really, really tired of all the hate these kind of games get. They're niche. Most people won't like them. If you don't like them, fine, but don't burst down the clubhouse door and demand that they accommodate you. I don't like MOBAs, but I'm not going to go to the comments for everything MOBA-related and say they're stupid. I understand that different people have different tastes, and that DOTA and LoL are very well-made for their target audience. No one is forcing you to play walking simulators. If you know you don't like them, just don't.
I guess it's because of the hype these games get.

You know "OMG, it's so amazing, you must try it".

As an analogy.

Let's say that "Walking Simulator" is equal to a Renault Twizy.
Now the Twizy isn't a bad car. It's actually a fairly great, little electric city-runabout.

The problem arises when it gets introduced to petrolheads with the explanations of "Oh it's so great, you must try it".
Petrolheads like cars, but the cars they like generally tend to be fun cars like the Renault Megane R.S. 265.

So most petrolhead will probably end up thinking "What's the fuzz about the Twizy?!? I mean it's not that good. It's slow, not that agile and has a low range".
 

RJ 17

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So Firewatch = Meh, Layers of Fear = Feh. Sounds about right from what I've been hearing/seeing about them.
 

Pescetarian

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Love that sly Mitchell and Webb Look reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZTiRdcURuI
 

CrazyBlaze

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The biggest disappointment of Firewatch was the mystery reveal. Like it was just a straight up let down. It had such a great build up and then just fizzed. The rest of the game was pretty good and the dialogue was a lot of fun.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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I actually don't understand. Layers of Fear is bad because it never lets up and keeps its heavy handed atmosphere building fog machine on the entire time.
Silent Hill 2 is great because its Japanese heavy handed atmosphere building fog machine is on the entire time.

Like just in terms of atmosphere, discounting plot, story, writing, gameplay, setting, and all that other malarkey, atmosphere only the games seem incredibly similar. Its always slightly spooky until its really spooky, then it goes back to being slightly spooky, all the while talking about the murdered wife with heavy handed and insanely easy to interpret metaphors.

And like Layers of Fear, a lot of SH2 horrors comes from signs reading "Hey look, isn't that sack of reddish brown lumpy liquids scary? Being even scarier if you walked up to it." at which point I never did.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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MrFalconfly said:
wallstaples said:
I'm really, really tired of all the hate these kind of games get. They're niche. Most people won't like them. If you don't like them, fine, but don't burst down the clubhouse door and demand that they accommodate you. I don't like MOBAs, but I'm not going to go to the comments for everything MOBA-related and say they're stupid. I understand that different people have different tastes, and that DOTA and LoL are very well-made for their target audience. No one is forcing you to play walking simulators. If you know you don't like them, just don't.
I guess it's because of the hype these games get.

You know "OMG, it's so amazing, you must try it".

As an analogy.

Let's say that "Walking Simulator" is equal to a Renault Twizy.
Now the Twizy isn't a bad car. It's actually a fairly great, little electric city-runabout.

The problem arises when it gets introduced to petrolheads with the explanations of "Oh it's so great, you must try it".
Petrolheads like cars, but the cars they like generally tend to be fun cars like the Renault Megane R.S. 265.

So most petrolhead will probably end up thinking "What's the fuzz about the Twizy?!? I mean it's not that good. It's slow, not that agile and has a low range".
It also doesn't help matters that a fair number of these games and their devs are regularly high off of their own farts. Really, just look at sunset and it's dev team for a fine example of that.
 

Casual Shinji

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Firewatch is the most amazing forgettable game I think I've ever played. It reaches unbelieveable heights at its, well... high point, but then wastes all that accumulated goodwill on the limpest of limp reveals.

Also those cartoony visuals kind of miss their mark when all you're looking at are trees and rocks.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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wallstaples said:
I'm really, really tired of all the hate these kind of games get. They're niche. Most people won't like them. If you don't like them, fine, but don't burst down the clubhouse door and demand that they accommodate you. I don't like MOBAs, but I'm not going to go to the comments for everything MOBA-related and say they're stupid. I understand that different people have different tastes, and that DOTA and LoL are very well-made for their target audience. No one is forcing you to play walking simulators. If you know you don't like them, just don't.
Why does it bother you just cause people dislike games you like? Seems like you need thicker skin, I get why people like Firewatch, but for me it's a game that's more fun to watch(no pun intended) someone else play on Youtube rather then play myself, as I can skip past all the tedious walking and straight to the dialogue. Having watched the ending I agree with Yahtzee 100% on it, I don't buy the whole "it's supposed to disappointing" excuse for it, dosen't make it any less disappointing.

This isn't a Firewatch specific forum, so your analogy is illogical, this is a forum specifically for ZP, so people are free to hate on games he reviews if they want to.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Silentpony said:
I actually don't understand. Layers of Fear is bad because it never lets up and keeps its heavy handed atmosphere building fog machine on the entire time.
Silent Hill 2 is great because its Japanese heavy handed atmosphere building fog machine is on the entire time.

Like just in terms of atmosphere, discounting plot, story, writing, gameplay, setting, and all that other malarkey, atmosphere only the games seem incredibly similar. Its always slightly spooky until its really spooky, then it goes back to being slightly spooky, all the while talking about the murdered wife with heavy handed and insanely easy to interpret metaphors.

And like Layers of Fear, a lot of SH2 horrors comes from signs reading "Hey look, isn't that sack of reddish brown lumpy liquids scary? Being even scarier if you walked up to it." at which point I never did.
Silent Hill 2 was nowhere near as relentless with jump scares in every single fucking room like Layers of Fear does, SH2's pacing was subtle, so that when jump scares actually did happen they actually accomplished something, but they become comical if you use them all the time(which is one of the reasons why American remakes of Japanese horror films are so terrible, they load them up with tons of cheap jump scares to the point where the film becomes a laugh riot).
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Michael Prymula said:
Silent Hill 2 was nowhere near as relentless with jump scares in every single fucking room like Layers of Fear does, SH2's pacing was subtle, so that when jump scares actually did happen they actually accomplished something, but they become comical if you use them all the time(which is one of the reasons why American remakes of Japanese horror films are so terrible, they load them up with tons of cheap jump scares to the point where the film becomes a laugh riot).
There were jump scares? I don't really remember any. I haven't been startled once in any of the first four Silent Hill games.
 

Darth_Payn

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Metalix Knightmare said:
MrFalconfly said:
wallstaples said:
I'm really, really tired of all the hate these kind of games get. They're niche. Most people won't like them. If you don't like them, fine, but don't burst down the clubhouse door and demand that they accommodate you. I don't like MOBAs, but I'm not going to go to the comments for everything MOBA-related and say they're stupid. I understand that different people have different tastes, and that DOTA and LoL are very well-made for their target audience. No one is forcing you to play walking simulators. If you know you don't like them, just don't.
I guess it's because of the hype these games get.

You know "OMG, it's so amazing, you must try it".

As an analogy.

Let's say that "Walking Simulator" is equal to a Renault Twizy.
Now the Twizy isn't a bad car. It's actually a fairly great, little electric city-runabout.

The problem arises when it gets introduced to petrolheads with the explanations of "Oh it's so great, you must try it".
Petrolheads like cars, but the cars they like generally tend to be fun cars like the Renault Megane R.S. 265.

So most petrolhead will probably end up thinking "What's the fuzz about the Twizy?!? I mean it's not that good. It's slow, not that agile and has a low range".
It also doesn't help matters that a fair number of these games and their devs are regularly high off of their own farts. Really, just look at sunset and it's dev team for a fine example of that.
Based on that logic, they live in the South Park version of San Francisco, and their kids cope with it by dropping acid.
 

IamLEAM1983

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wallstaples said:
I'm really, really tired of all the hate these kind of games get. They're niche. Most people won't like them. If you don't like them, fine, but don't burst down the clubhouse door and demand that they accommodate you. I don't like MOBAs, but I'm not going to go to the comments for everything MOBA-related and say they're stupid. I understand that different people have different tastes, and that DOTA and LoL are very well-made for their target audience. No one is forcing you to play walking simulators. If you know you don't like them, just don't.
What really gets my goat is how some idiots call games like these two "SJW games". Layers of Fear isn't harping on about complex social issues in need of being exposed, and Firewatch isn't much more than a cute little discourse on what happens when you drop a normal human in an environment where one's imagination gets to do all the spooky work.

Ever camped out in the forest? I have. Nevermind how safe I was, the encroaching darkness and seeing the goddamn stars for the first time in years made me feel all small, vulnerable and wibbly. If that qualifies for an "SJW" experience, then something's wrong.

But of course, there's a subset of the gaming population that snobs anything that's not overproduced, packed with recognizable gameplay features or geared towards the competitive sector.
 

tzimize

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The best bit of this was the scary going-to-be-president lurking behind one of the walls. Excellent stuff.