Zero Punctuation: Guitar Hero III

[Muzz]

Was that...John Romero?
That takes me back.
Gaming is in need of a new over exposed whipping boy. Let's use Cliffy B! Sure his games more or less deliver, but who cares.

 

[AnGeL.SLayer]

hahaha i think yahtzee is trying to convince himself he isnt gay more then he is the rest of us. so yes, keep telling yourself that. whatever gets you to sleep at night.

 

[randomizer9]

Wanker's cramp, lol. Eddie Knox is my favorite character who is also MIA from Guitar Hero 3.

 

[vorsuc]

Vorsuc, hi

Allo!

Sure you wanted to quote me?

Sure, but please, we're all intelligent boys and girls, ignoring the points made in a reply and just dismissing disagreements with 'well that's your opinion' is very disrespectful. Either respect your OP enough to offer counter points and discussion of their points or ease the finger off the reply button.

The fact that you talk about "more free time than sense" indicates you're stereotyping the hardcore as well. A lot of hardcore gamers spend about as much time on games than a regular gamer, but they focus on a few titles while regulars use the same time to play ten games in a row. It's basically horizontal broadening versus vertical depth.

But x hours on 10 games or x hours on 5 is still x hours of time, which *most* people don't have.

The point I feel the review was trying to make and that the one I re-iterated was that while the early stages of the game can be completed with a reasonable 'time investment' the later stages require the patience of a saint and isolation in some secret government bunker removed from such distractions as a day job, family, kids and 'life'.

The point that 'hardcore gamers just play less games' (which is surely a definition that depends on who you talk to) doesn't really enter into the equation.

But these things are relative - for all you know, the GH3 QA team thought this to be a gradual difficulty curve.

And were ZP done by said GH3 QA team, you'd have a point. As it is, we're all here for
Yahtzee's opinion. And on that topic...

So the question remains: if a game offers you a challenge, do you step up to it, or not?

Which brings us back to the original point that 'yes we do, but only when it is indeed a challenge, not mission sodding impossible'.

Maybe I'm not 'hardcore' enough, maybe Yahtzee isn't, god knows he's mentioned often enough in his reviews that he's more than happy to f**k a game right off if it stops being fun and that's the key part of the point being made.

Not that we're running away from the challenge of GH3 when it is asking us to open a can of soda without breaking a nail, but that suddenly without warning game switches from 'ooo this is a bit tough' to the button mashing equivalent of sending the South Ascot Ballerina Association into Iraq on a peacekeeping mission, without any reason or warning other than the dark chuckle eminating from the console.

Sure that's the *opinion* being offered here, but just because it isn't yours doesn't make it wrong nor should it be a reason for you to "take offense" when such opinions are offered.

Happy gaming.

 

[Jeigan]

So... Am I the only one who wishes Yahtzee actually was gay?

 

[Corbineau]

And just to throw this in there, Morello is FAR more of a legend of rock than the ego-train wreck that is Slash, not just playing guitar on our generations most famous rock anthems but also adding the hat of remixer and producer to his collection. I felt slighted for him that he was the 'easier' boss on the game.

You had me until this point. Seriously. I love Rage as much as the next, but Slash is kinda a rock demi-god, whatever one's opinion about his ego is. You'd have to get Kurt Hammet or Eddie Van Halen (etc) to compare, and yeah. This is not a dis to Morello, it's just that he's nowhere near as big of a legendary name as Slash, and his band isn't exactly Classic enough to qualify for Legend status. So.

 

[Corbineau]

So... Am I the only one who wishes Yahtzee actually was gay?

Clearly you missed my earlier post.

To sum up: not at all.

 

[Corbineau]

Wow, I hope you're not gay, Yahtzee. There go all my wicked fantasies.

Great review as always. Thanks for brightening my Wednesdays with your dry, sarcastic wit.

I hope he is, as that's what all my wicked fantasies revolve around.

LOL! I'm sure Yahtzee will be pleased to be the subject of so many wild fantasies, gay and straight.

It's probably the hat.

I will stop spamming this board now, but I simply had to say that your JTHM icon rocks.

 

[kanetsb]

...yes... but... It's on PC now - so all the console-haters finally got this game. And apparently it's selling like fu[beep]g crazy!

 

[soliduck]

I agree with you completely about the difficulty.
I gave Rain of Blood a few tries and then decided that I was done with the game.

 

[Num43]

I havnt played it but I gay jokes get me to lol as the next guy.

 

[Jeigan]

Sorry, Corbineau I don't really have the time to read through five pages of messages. And that wasn't meant to rude, it's just the truth. It's quite nice to know, though

 

[soliduck]

I would also like to point out that the people he calls freaks are the one who would send him emails about how he sucks at Guitar Hero and shouldn't criticize it because of that.

Also, as to people who don't understand the draw of GH: I personally see GH as more of an "interactive listening experience" than a game really. The songs that I keep coming back to and playing over are the same ones that I have subsequently bought and put onto my MP3 player.

 

[the_pearson_person]

LOL @ the new review - loved it.



On Facebook? Join the Zero Punctuation Appreciation Society:

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[Tanksicle]

Great review! I enjoy the game, but it truly can be too difficult sometimes. The Yapper dog bit reminds me of an Eddie Izzard routine. Keep it up, man!

 

[sinjax]

The video, she is down, she won't load! Why does the escapist fear the you tube? reliable servers backed by the might of google is made of the good surly?

scratch that i'm a fool...apparently firefox isn't playing ball...safari was happy to play ball

ball was played

 

[Voodoo Child]

So... Am I the only one who wishes Yahtzee actually was gay?

Clearly you missed my earlier post.

To sum up: not at all.

Seconded, and yes, it is definately the trilby.

Also, I don't hate GH3, but I also wouldn't fork out AUD$148.00 to buy the thing.

 

[Naybo]

Oi Oi Yahtzee!
Y'know what really sucks about GH3?
The thing that blatantly shows you that Neversoft have got their greasy mits on it?
You can use cheats.
CHEATS
WHAT THE HELL MAN?
I mean, i love the game, its great, makes me feel badass infront of my friends ^-^
But, Cheats man..........
Thats like, admitting that your game is so shoddy that the only way you can possibly spruce it up a bit and make it a little more intersting is to make it so you can fuck the hard way and still come out a winner.....


Not happy man,
Neversoft screwed up Tony Hawks Pro Skater
And now this.....

 

[KaynSlamdyke]

Lets get this comment buried in the pile then.

Yahtzee's the reason I'm on this forum. It gives me a reminder to watch his rants every week. And yeah, there are some things I wished he complained about (such as, I dunno, the publishers basically pissing on us loyal PS2 users who've been with the franchise since GH1 by passing off the port to a third party or how multiplayer is to be enforced if we want to play some of the songs), but then again I realise Yahtzee isn't me so he can complain about whatever he wants.

And hey, genuinely funny piece I fully agree with on a game I went out and bought on (UK) release date regardless of knowing how much of a cash in it is, formed by someone who seems to be at the same "just about competant at Hard but don't put me in front of that Slayer song please" level as I am. I'm a happy little mini-fanboy now. Can't wait for next week's.

 

[VMerken]

Hey Vorsuc . Your feedback is much appreciated.

Sure, but please, we're all intelligent boys and girls, ignoring the points made in a reply and just dismissing disagreements with 'well that's your opinion' is very disrespectful. Either respect your OP enough to offer counter points and discussion of their points or ease the finger off the reply button.

Well, right back at you. You dismissed the point made in my OP and instead talked about something else in your reply. Even hinted at me being part of the "pissing contest", which isn't true. By the way, I did address some of your points and offered counter points or tried to rationalise since differing, equivalent perspectives exist. That's why I broke up your post and responded to each "block". Sorry if some counter arguments point to their relativity, but that's how I see it.

But x hours on 10 games or x hours on 5 is still x hours of time, which *most* people don't have.

x is a variable, and thus x can equal 0. So the equation you propose is valid for all people, although I won't consider the x=0 population for obvious reasons.

The precise value of x depends on the person involved, sure. How much time is one willing to invest in video gaming? How much time does one have available? The precise amount can differ from day to day. It's a complex matter, which is why comparisons can only be made if x is the same for the gamers you're trying to compare. That was the assumption I made in my previous posts. Thing is you can have hardcore and regular gamers with x = 10, you can also have such gamers with x = 1. As long as x is the same for both, one can compare their gaming behaviour, evaluate it on an equivalent basis.

It's the same in science: in order to study gas pressure in function of gas volume, all other relevant gas parameters need to be constants.

By the way, a more accurate depiction of "regular gamer versus hardcore gamer" isn't 10 games versus 5 games, but rather 10 games versus 1 - maybe 2. A hardcore gamer specialises, a regular gamer wants different experiences. Whether they each play 1 hour a day on their games or 10, is irrelevant.

The point I feel the review was trying to make and that the one I re-iterated was that while the early stages of the game can be completed with a reasonable 'time investment' the later stages require the patience of a saint and isolation in some secret government bunker removed from such distractions as a day job, family, kids and 'life'.

Sure, but the review also made it a point (and showed it visually) that if you live up to the challenge of GH3, then you're a "freak". Which means the people who made those GH3 Youtube movies are freaks. Sorry, but I do not consider (the majority of) them freaks and am a little offended (not utterly and completely offended, of course, this is Zero Punctuation after all at that kind of gamer branding.

The point that 'hardcore gamers just play less games' (which is surely a definition that depends on who you talk to) doesn't really enter into the equation.

It does, and is central to my considerations, as shown above. I do not call someone who plays video games 10 hours a day just to complete them "hardcore". However, someone who plays 1 video game 1 hour a day could very well be hardcore, if the player already completed the game earlier on and is now attempting to hone his/her skills.

Of course, within this terminology, a regular gamer could also be considered a sign of going "hardcore", since in that case the player's genre of choice is "playing everything". However, if one wants to go truly deep in that case and become hardcore at it, the time investment needed will be significant, and that is not something I'd expect a regular gamer to cough up. There are always exceptions, of course.

And were ZP done by said GH3 QA team, you'd have a point. As it is, we're all here for Yahtzee's opinion. And on that topic...

Yahtzee's review is only one viewpoint concerning the relativity of the perceived difficulty curve of GH3 - which fits perfectly to the point I discussed.

Which brings us back to the original point that 'yes we do, but only when it is indeed a challenge, not mission sodding impossible'.

Again, whether or not it's mission sodding impossible is relative. For you it is, for someone else it isn't, for yet someone else it was but no longer is because he or she practiced or discovered a new, seemingly trivial insight which turned out to be crucial for the game segment involved. Either way, *IF* the QA team was up to snuff (important assumption, obviously), the segment you're facing is definitely not mission sodding impossible. Several people got past it. It's up to you to run away or find out how they did it (with or without a little help).

So let me rephrase my question: "You're at a point in the game where it *seems* mission sodding impossible. Do you persist, or back down?"

Maybe I'm not 'hardcore' enough, maybe Yahtzee isn't, god knows he's mentioned often enough in his reviews that he's more than happy to f**k a game right off if it stops being fun and that's the key part of the point being made.

Not that we're running away from the challenge of GH3 when it is asking us to open a can of soda without breaking a nail, but that suddenly without warning game switches from 'ooo this is a bit tough' to the button mashing equivalent of sending the South Ascot Ballerina Association into Iraq on a peacekeeping mission, without any reason or warning other than the dark chuckle eminating from the console.

Personal anecdote: first time I faced Nightmare (a boss creature) in Devil May Cry (Normal mode), I thought I was going insane. Before, everything went relatively smooth, but Nightmare creamed me like no tomorrow with me not even close to denting it. Major spike in difficulty for me. Knee-jerk reaction: "What the **** were they thinking with this thing"?! I faced a choice: quit playing and never see the ending, or persist. I persisted, gradually discovered a few interesting facts about Nightmare's defences, and eventually overcame the challenge. And it felt great - personal victories like that are an important part of gaming for me now, and I can appreciate the road you need to follow to achieve them. Like I said before, rhythm games are not my genre so I can't say if the GH3 spike is similar to the DMC spike I experienced, but the existence of the Youtube videos lead me to suspect that this is indeed the case.

Sure that's the *opinion* being offered here, but just because it isn't yours doesn't make it wrong nor should it be a reason for you to "take offense" when such opinions are offered.

Again, I do not take offense because Yahtzee perceived a difficulty spike and talks about it. I take offense in him calling those who got past that spike "freaks". I'm pretty sure that save for a few exceptions, this simply isn't the case.

Happy gaming.

Thanks, you too .