Zero Punctuation: Halo 5: Guardians

Devin Barker

New member
Aug 10, 2012
168
0
0
L377UC3 said:
Devin Barker said:
Destiny has multiplayer. Its not VS but it is multiplayer. The development money may have been spent on the campaign... but did it result in anything meaningful? Did the story blow you away? Did it captivate you and make you NEED to play the 5th game? Im not saying every game needs to be amazeballs but the stories feel like generic scifi stuffing wrapped in Halo skin (or at least 3 did, like I said I have not played any of the newer ones) 1 pulled me in, I was actually interested in what was happening and wanted more, 2 less so but still came back for 3... after that mess... I was out... the story had nothing to it. This is more the point im making, Money does not = good game. Im glad folks like the multiplayer and that some folks are happy with the campaign. Im not telling you what to play, Im just not throwing down my cash for a game where the plot (IMO) is coming second to everything else in the game
Who brought up Destiny? I was talking about Halo 3:ODST, a game released two years after Halo 3 but without a unique multiplayer of any description. It's just a story campaign.

And it doesn't matter what I think. I thought Halo 4's story was stupid as hell. Doesn't stop the fact that it was the only decent thing about the game and what 343 was obviously most proud of showing off. Their new enemies were bullet sponges that cheated. Their multiplayer was unbalanced and broken as hell. Their campaign was repetitive and linear, but their story? Compared to the rest of the game, it's the best part. I'd say it's what they cared the most about.

Still bad, but it disproves your point nonetheless.
You are actually the FIRST (non reviewer) I have ever met who played ODSTs Campaign. LITERALLY all of my friends who had it just played the multiplayer (yah I am unfortunate enough to have a lot of friends who self identify as "Halo kids") but this just added to my fuel of hate as I could not find one person (in my personal life) who was at all interested in the campaign. I will admit I was curious as to how it played out and if it was worth the time, but never had anyone who confirm anything about it. Still its not enough to make me run out and grab it but I am glad they had one last hurrah at trying to save the story aspect of their games
 

WindKnight

Quiet, Odd Sort.
Legacy
Jul 8, 2009
1,828
9
43
Cephiro
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
L377UC3 said:
But you could also just play for those dice-rolls, if you wanted to.
Maybe so, but the whole mechanic is designed to tease you and encourage you to pay out. To borrow a quote, No-one puts micro transactions in their game in the hopes you don't buy them, as 'optional' as they claim you are.

Its pretty much the same as the gachapon mechanic you get in a lot of free to play games, and those are FREE.
 

Symion

New member
Aug 30, 2012
16
0
0
L377UC3 said:
I was talking about Halo 3:ODST, a game released two years after Halo 3 but without a unique multiplayer of any description. It's just a story campaign.
The multi in ODST was much more lauded than the campaign, its wave based mechanic was especially held up as some of the best fun that year for a group of players. What exactly |are| you talking about?

Beyond that: Angry Joe has already made it clear why REQ is something that shouldn't be accepted, because its a dice roll now and a pay wall next time.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

Bound to escape
Legacy
Jul 15, 2013
4,953
6
13
No new weapons or vehicles? I'm sorry, but, what?? Am i the the only one who believes that a sequel to a game (next-gen, no less!) that bases itself around weapons and vehicles for its' fun gameplay, should at least add something new for the player? Shooters especially, the only means of progress are your guns. The player must be given a variety to play with. It is literally the first thing i judge in a shooter, the variety of weapons. It would be like a racing series giving you exactlty the same roster of cars each title. Astounding and weak.
 

Erttheking

Member
Legacy
Oct 5, 2011
10,845
1
3
Country
United States
I kind of have to agree with Yahtzee. I really would like a smaller more focused game, perhaps one focused on the power vaccum the collapse of the Covenant would've caused, but no, games always have to follow up threats with bigger threats because there's always another galaxy threatening super monster/weapon buried on the next planet over. Not only does it feel unreal because when they introduce another even more ridiculous threat that it turns out was there all along you wonder what the fuck is coming next and not in a good way, it belittles the threats of the previous games because past threats rarely get any respect, and when they do it's just them doing the same thing they always did. There's no freaking growth, it's just constantly trying to raise the stakes because that's what needs to be done.

Why can't we have smaller stories in Halo, why does it always have to be galactic threat # are we even counting anymore? Here's a thought. The SPARTANs were originally created to combat the Insurrectionists, people who want to declare their colonies independent from the UNSC and commonly resorted to terrorist actions to do so. They kind of went quiet during the Human-Covenant war, but now that that's over you'd think the Insurrectionists would crop back up because they thought the UNSC was being fascist and 30 year long wars aren't exactly well known for improving the quality of life in a nation. It'd be interesting to see Chief be forced out of the guilt free actions of fighting aliens who want to kill all humans and be forced to fight insurgents who want independence, because that's not as morally clean.

But no, more Forerunner doomsday weapons, HOW DID THESE GUYS LOSE TO THE FLOOD AGAIN WHEN THEY'VE GOT GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS BURIED ALL OVER THE PLACE!?
 

WindKnight

Quiet, Odd Sort.
Legacy
Jul 8, 2009
1,828
9
43
Cephiro
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Xsjadoblayde said:
No new weapons or vehicles? I'm sorry, but, what?? Am i the the only one who believes that a sequel to a game (next-gen, no less!) that bases itself around weapons and vehicles for its' fun gameplay, should at least add something new for the player? Shooters especially, the only means of progress are your guns. The player must be given a variety to play with. It is literally the first thing i judge in a shooter, the variety of weapons. It would be like a racing series giving you exactlty the same roster of cars each title. Astounding and weak.
Honestly, it still bugs me that two games on from the end of the covenent war, your still fighting the covenant. Yeah, I know, rogue factions blah blah, too much bad history blah blah... it still just feels like regressing the story to make sure veterans have their comfort blanket old enemies instead of moving on entirely.
 

L377UC3

New member
Nov 11, 2015
16
0
0
Devin Barker said:
You are actually the FIRST (non reviewer) I have ever met who played ODSTs Campaign. LITERALLY all of my friends who had it just played the multiplayer (yah I am unfortunate enough to have a lot of friends who self identify as "Halo kids") but this just added to my fuel of hate as I could not find one person (in my personal life) who was at all interested in the campaign. I will admit I was curious as to how it played out and if it was worth the time, but never had anyone who confirm anything about it. Still its not enough to make me run out and grab it but I am glad they had one last hurrah at trying to save the story aspect of their games
It's alright. It's kind of like a Firefly cast reunion. No, I'm serious. Mal, Jayne and Wash are your squadmates. That's just one of the reasons its got perhaps the most down-to-earth story of any Halo, interspersed with an attempt at open-world gameplay. It's a weird beast for Halo, that's for sure.

Windknight said:
L377UC3 said:
But you could also just play for those dice-rolls, if you wanted to.
Maybe so, but the whole mechanic is designed to tease you and encourage you to pay out. To borrow a quote, No-one puts micro transactions in their game in the hopes you don't buy them, as 'optional' as they claim you are.

Its pretty much the same as the gachapon mechanic you get in a lot of free to play games, and those are FREE.
No-one made Halo Legends for me to microwave it, either. Didn't mean I didn't thoroughly enjoy watching their product...

...melt.

But seriously, they can *encourage* you all day long while providing you the same experience as everyone else. At that point, it's just your willpower. I prefer REQ packs to the alternative - community splitting map pack DLC.

Symion said:
The multi in ODST was much more lauded than the campaign, its wave based mechanic was especially held up as some of the best fun that year for a group of players. What exactly |are| you talking about?

Beyond that: Angry Joe has already made it clear why REQ is something that shouldn't be accepted, because its a dice roll now and a pay wall next time.
8 (with 4 that need to be *unlocked*) maps of 4 player co-op PvE =/= multiplayer support.

And in response to Angry Joe:https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
 

Vausch

New member
Dec 7, 2009
1,476
0
0
Flame Sama said:
As a Halo fan, I mostly agree with this review, but the microtransaction REQ packs can be purchased by playing the game. Saying people are using their credit cards to win in a kneejerk reaction to them being in the game. You can unlock every weapon without playing extra money.
Didn't Angry Joe calculate that it would take over a thousand hours to unlock everything without paying for it?
 

L377UC3

New member
Nov 11, 2015
16
0
0
Vausch said:
Flame Sama said:
As a Halo fan, I mostly agree with this review, but the microtransaction REQ packs can be purchased by playing the game. Saying people are using their credit cards to win in a kneejerk reaction to them being in the game. You can unlock every weapon without playing extra money.
Didn't Angry Joe calculate that it would take over a thousand hours to unlock everything without paying for it?
Didn't Angry Joe also conveniently skip over how every Halo since Reach has required similar time investments to unlock everything - it's just that you couldn't pay for it back then?
 

09philj

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 31, 2015
2,154
949
118
L377UC3 said:
Vausch said:
Flame Sama said:
As a Halo fan, I mostly agree with this review, but the microtransaction REQ packs can be purchased by playing the game. Saying people are using their credit cards to win in a kneejerk reaction to them being in the game. You can unlock every weapon without playing extra money.
Didn't Angry Joe calculate that it would take over a thousand hours to unlock everything without paying for it?
Didn't Angry Joe also conveniently skip over how every Halo since Reach has required similar time investments to unlock everything - it's just that you couldn't pay for it back then?
Back then, though, that armour meant something. Sure, it showed you had no life, but you had earned that variant helmet, and everyone knew it.
 

Vausch

New member
Dec 7, 2009
1,476
0
0
L377UC3 said:
Vausch said:
Flame Sama said:
As a Halo fan, I mostly agree with this review, but the microtransaction REQ packs can be purchased by playing the game. Saying people are using their credit cards to win in a kneejerk reaction to them being in the game. You can unlock every weapon without playing extra money.
Didn't Angry Joe calculate that it would take over a thousand hours to unlock everything without paying for it?
Didn't Angry Joe also conveniently skip over how every Halo since Reach has required similar time investments to unlock everything - it's just that you couldn't pay for it back then?
That's ludicrous regardless of the situation. With as fast as games come out any more, nobody is going to put in that much investment in a single game unless they play competitively. Putting a paywall up in a situation where people KNOW that it would take that long is actually even worse in my eyes. Now they're going "Well you know it takes about a thousand hours to get all the stuff. But, for a myriad of small fees..."
 

L377UC3

New member
Nov 11, 2015
16
0
0
09philj said:
Back then, though, that armour meant something. Sure, it showed you had no life, but you had earned that variant helmet, and everyone knew it.
I guess. I found myself using the default helmet in Reach just because it was the least ridiculous looking one I could get without sinking 25,000,000 cR on a Gungir or Mk V. I didn't earn anything, I just had better style than everyone else. xD

Once again though, the way the REQ system is in Halo 5 could be improved to add some sort of unlockable tier of helmets. Have an entire armor set only obtainable by playing through the Campaign on Legendary All Skulls On. The two systems aren't inherently incompatible, I don't think.

Vausch said:
That's ludicrous regardless of the situation. With as fast as games come out any more, nobody is going to put in that much investment in a single game unless they play competitively. Putting a paywall up in a situation where people KNOW that it would take that long is actually even worse in my eyes. Now they're going "Well you know it takes about a thousand hours to get all the stuff. But, for a myriad of small fees..."
Halo's are released 3 years apart. How fast do they have to come out any more? I'd also appreciate it if you spoke for yourself. Trust me, bro, those guys casual players who put that much time into this game exist.

And what's wrong with charging to jump ahead in this system? It's just an option.

erttheking said:
There's also the fact that back then it wasn't random. You could save up for certain types of armor that you were aiming for. Here, everything is random.
THAT is true, but not incompatible with a REQ-style system, just with the current variant of the REQ system in Guardians.

erttheking said:
Also you couldn't spawn tanks because you got a card in a pack. Forget the morality of microstransactions, that just breaks the game.
THAT is untrue, however. REQ packs that alter the game are secluded to their own playlist - Warzone. Moreover, that shit's single use. You get it and you burn it - and it's over. Compared to how broken the games have been in the past (Halo 4's bastardized loadouts, unlockables and random ordinance drops) the REQ system is an improvement.
 

Erttheking

Member
Legacy
Oct 5, 2011
10,845
1
3
Country
United States
L377UC3 said:
Vausch said:
Flame Sama said:
As a Halo fan, I mostly agree with this review, but the microtransaction REQ packs can be purchased by playing the game. Saying people are using their credit cards to win in a kneejerk reaction to them being in the game. You can unlock every weapon without playing extra money.
Didn't Angry Joe calculate that it would take over a thousand hours to unlock everything without paying for it?
Didn't Angry Joe also conveniently skip over how every Halo since Reach has required similar time investments to unlock everything - it's just that you couldn't pay for it back then?
There's also the fact that back then it wasn't random. You could save up for certain types of armor that you were aiming for. Here, everything is random. Also you couldn't spawn tanks because you got a card in a pack. Forget the morality of microstransactions, that just breaks the game.

They redesigned pretty much all of the ways armor worked to make way for their fucking microstransactions.
 

ryan_cs

New member
Aug 13, 2013
105
0
0
L377UC3 said:
Once again though, the way the REQ system is in Halo 5 could be improved to add some sort of unlockable tier of helmets. Have an entire armor set only obtainable by playing through the Campaign on Legendary All Skulls On. The two systems aren't inherently incompatible, I don't think.
Does Halo 5 have that? I've never heard of an unlockable tier of helmets from any reviews. I thought that it's always random with no skill involved in unlocking specific cosmetics.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

Bound to escape
Legacy
Jul 15, 2013
4,953
6
13
Windknight said:
Honestly, it still bugs me that two games on from the end of the covenent war, your still fighting the covenant. Yeah, I know, rogue factions blah blah, too much bad history blah blah... it still just feels like regressing the story to make sure veterans have their comfort blanket old enemies instead of moving on entirely.
Yeah, after Halo 2, i would have thought that giving you the other side of the story would mean it's time to move on to something with more mystique. You can't show a sympathetic viewpoint one game, then go back to the binary good/evil formula as if the past never happened. As you mentioned, i'm sure they have a colon-load of contrived reasons to pull from their ass to excuse no new enemy designs. Creative laziness. Get the Xcom guys to give them a few lessons, it isn't like it's an impossible task. How easy is it to mock up a random alien design? Even Pokemon try with their new games, and they already had hundreds to start with. Edit: I know pokemon aren't aliens, but for all intents and purposes, they might as well be. Fictional species are fictional species.
 

L377UC3

New member
Nov 11, 2015
16
0
0
ryan_cs said:
L377UC3 said:
Once again though, the way the REQ system is in Halo 5 could be improved to add some sort of unlockable tier of helmets. Have an entire armor set only obtainable by playing through the Campaign on Legendary All Skulls On. The two systems aren't inherently incompatible, I don't think.
Does Halo 5 have that? I've never heard of an unlockable tier of helmets from any reviews. I thought that it's always random with no skill involved in unlocking specific cosmetics.
Not that I know of. I wish it did though. It's a legitimate complaint about the REQ system, the fact that that level of expression no longer exists.
 

Kanatatsu

New member
Nov 26, 2010
302
0
0
I don't think Yahtzee understands first person shooters, why people play them, or how to review them.
 

Flathole

New member
Sep 5, 2015
125
0
0
Wait, Yahtzee is cumming to movies about whales, now? WTF man? do the dolphins know you're cheating on them?
 

WindKnight

Quiet, Odd Sort.
Legacy
Jul 8, 2009
1,828
9
43
Cephiro
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
ryan_cs said:
L377UC3 said:
Once again though, the way the REQ system is in Halo 5 could be improved to add some sort of unlockable tier of helmets. Have an entire armor set only obtainable by playing through the Campaign on Legendary All Skulls On. The two systems aren't inherently incompatible, I don't think.
Does Halo 5 have that? I've never heard of an unlockable tier of helmets from any reviews. I thought that it's always random with no skill involved in unlocking specific cosmetics.
from what I've picked up, yeah, its pure req packs. And there's a little cartoon intro to the thing that has anyone asking valid questions about their concerns with the system getting smacked around.