Zero Punctuation: Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam

thanatos388

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Apr 24, 2012
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ToastyMozart said:
Jonathan Cowie said:
There is a new 3DS called the New 3DS (most confusing name ever) with a second little analog stick sort of nub in case you care. There was also one that came with Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate which I know you don't care about, even if giant monster fights are far more common than in Tri (as in every mission with a couple of exceptions more common).
Apparently it's because "New" (in English) sounds fancy and exotic in the Japanese market, and NOA didn't think "maybe we should rename it something sensible for the English-speaking market."
I've taken to internally calling it the "3DS Neo," which is still dumb sounding but gets the point across without being rediculously confusing.
Or 3DS expansion since its basically just a 3DS with a Nintendo 64 style expansion pack built in and a second stick that should have always been there but apparently still kinda sucks.
 

Kenjitsuka

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Sep 10, 2009
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"OUR HOUSE, IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR STREET!!!"

Hells yeah with the The Young Ones musical numbers reference!
"Walking, talking, Living doll" ... sounds like Peach to me!!! :O
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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Multiverseman said:
IMO, I blame Miyamoto for most Mario games being formulaic drivel. From the stuff I've read, whenever Nintendo's teams tried to do something creative or the like with the Mario games after Super Paper Mario, Miyamoto would intervene. It happened with Super Mario Galaxy 2, and it happened again with Sticker Star, and I'm guessing it was also the case here...
I'm confused, you're saying Miyamoto stifles creativity in the Mario games...when Sticker Star's whole shtick was that it was copying too much from Thousand Year Door. That's not stifling creativity. I mean Sticker Star isn't great (it isn't horrible either it just was a poor choice for a Paper Mario title), but why are we now placing all of the blame on Miyamoto's shoulders here? As far as that Iwata's Ask was concerned, his beginning and ending input was the battle system and as controversial as it was, it had nothing to do with the formulaic plot.

Besides, this particular game seems more "MAKE FILLER GAMES TO FILL UP CALENDER WHILE THE REST OF US DO NX WORK!" Then Miyamoto intruding on the game. It's pretty much Dream Team but with Sticker Star assets.

OT: I personally enjoy the game because I enjoy the combat system of Mario and Luigi and the music by the Kingdom Hearts composer. I know it isn't as creative style wise but if you enjoyed Dream Team and want its biggest complaint of that game gone (tutorials are mostly tucked away), it's worth a look.
 

ToastyMozart

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Mar 13, 2012
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xaszatm said:
Sticker Star's whole shtick was that it was copying too much from Thousand Year Door.
Wait, what? Besides returning to a turn-based format after Super's platforming, in what way did SS copy from TTYD?

People blame Miyamoto because he reportedly said that SS shouldn't have much story to facilitate it as a mobile game, and the lack of any of the previous Paper Mario's funny writing or story was generally considered Sticker Star's biggest problem.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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ToastyMozart said:
xaszatm said:
Sticker Star's whole shtick was that it was copying too much from Thousand Year Door.
Wait, what? Besides returning to a turn-based format after Super's platforming, in what way did SS copy from TTYD?

People blame Miyamoto because he reportedly said that SS shouldn't have much story to facilitate it as a mobile game, and the lack of any of the previous Paper Mario's funny writing or story was generally considered Sticker Star's biggest problem.
No no, you misunderstand me. Miyamoto's only contribution to Sticker Star was to change the battle system, which originally was TTYD's battle system. He suggested they change it. And they changed it to Sticker Star's sticker system, which yeah, in my opinion was a mistake.

The second point just isn't true. People are compounded what he said about a different game (Four Sword Adventures) and copying it into Sticker Star. And your reasoning for your second point is weird, because the one game where he commented on that was a GameCube title.
 

Xman490

Doctorate in Danger
May 29, 2010
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My, my. Yahtzee's really taking an interest in United States politics (i.e. political drama).

Speaking of "drama", the ultimately rather pointless presence of a Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door writer being part of this game's team (as mentioned on Nintendo's YouTube channel) is as tragic as Hideo Kojima missing-out on Metal Gear Solid 5's Video Game Award.
 

Llarys

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Aug 28, 2013
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xaszatm said:
ToastyMozart said:
xaszatm said:
Sticker Star's whole shtick was that it was copying too much from Thousand Year Door.
Wait, what? Besides returning to a turn-based format after Super's platforming, in what way did SS copy from TTYD?

People blame Miyamoto because he reportedly said that SS shouldn't have much story to facilitate it as a mobile game, and the lack of any of the previous Paper Mario's funny writing or story was generally considered Sticker Star's biggest problem.
No no, you misunderstand me. Miyamoto's only contribution to Sticker Star was to change the battle system, which originally was TTYD's battle system. He suggested they change it. And they changed it to Sticker Star's sticker system, which yeah, in my opinion was a mistake.

The second point just isn't true. People are compounded what he said about a different game (Four Sword Adventures) and copying it into Sticker Star. And your reasoning for your second point is weird, because the one game where he commented on that was a GameCube title.
Here's what always infuriates me about the "Why do you guys hate Sticker Star? It's different, and you hate different, so it's good!" Then you proceed to inhale more nitrous from your spray paint carts...or whatever.


The Paper Mario games are intrinsically different. What defined them as a series was the fact that they had unique characters, unique enemies, took the player to crazy locales outside of the Mario norm. Even if you weren't a fan of the gameplay of Super Paper Mario, at least it could boast that it was taking you to some crazy places, had some great new characters, and had a strong story. It was a pretty cool ride.

Sticker Star, in being "different" from Paper Mario games, ended up being EXACTLY THE SAME as every other Mario game. Every NPC is a toad. The bad guys are all standard Mario enemies. Grassland-Desert-Forest-Jungle-IceWorld-Fireworld-Boss. It's, literally, New Super Mario Bros - The RPG.

Anyway, you're underselling Miyamoto's influence. He didn't "just" change the gameplay with his idea that the sticker mechanic is THE BEST THING EVAR. He's responsible for...well...pretty much everything. "'It's fine without a story, so do we really need one?' and 'As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world.'" http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/papermario/0/2

No plot except the usual excuse plot with Bowser. No new characters, no new enemies, usual drivel.


He neutered the game, and left us with the same Mario we always get, not something different.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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Llarys said:
xaszatm said:
ToastyMozart said:
xaszatm said:
Sticker Star's whole shtick was that it was copying too much from Thousand Year Door.
Wait, what? Besides returning to a turn-based format after Super's platforming, in what way did SS copy from TTYD?

People blame Miyamoto because he reportedly said that SS shouldn't have much story to facilitate it as a mobile game, and the lack of any of the previous Paper Mario's funny writing or story was generally considered Sticker Star's biggest problem.
No no, you misunderstand me. Miyamoto's only contribution to Sticker Star was to change the battle system, which originally was TTYD's battle system. He suggested they change it. And they changed it to Sticker Star's sticker system, which yeah, in my opinion was a mistake.

The second point just isn't true. People are compounded what he said about a different game (Four Sword Adventures) and copying it into Sticker Star. And your reasoning for your second point is weird, because the one game where he commented on that was a GameCube title.
Here's what always infuriates me about the "Why do you guys hate Sticker Star? It's different, and you hate different, so it's good!" Then you proceed to inhale more nitrous from your spray paint carts...or whatever.


The Paper Mario games are intrinsically different. What defined them as a series was the fact that they had unique characters, unique enemies, took the player to crazy locales outside of the Mario norm. Even if you weren't a fan of the gameplay of Super Paper Mario, at least it could boast that it was taking you to some crazy places, had some great new characters, and had a strong story. It was a pretty cool ride.

Sticker Star, in being "different" from Paper Mario games, ended up being EXACTLY THE SAME as every other Mario game. Every NPC is a toad. The bad guys are all standard Mario enemies. Grassland-Desert-Forest-Jungle-IceWorld-Fireworld-Boss. It's, literally, New Super Mario Bros - The RPG.

Anyway, you're underselling Miyamoto's influence. He didn't "just" change the gameplay with his idea that the sticker mechanic is THE BEST THING EVAR. He's responsible for...well...pretty much everything. "'It's fine without a story, so do we really need one?' and 'As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world.'" http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/papermario/0/2

No plot except the usual excuse plot with Bowser. No new characters, no new enemies, usual drivel.


He neutered the game, and left us with the same Mario we always get, not something different.
...when did I say the game was great? I thought it was a good game by itself, but a poor Paper Mario title. I AGREE that changing the battle system was a poor choice. And I think the more generic story only hurt it in the long run (though I do find that the humor is still there, it's just not as pronounced). When did I say that others had to like Sticker Star for that matter?

Also, I still say the Club Nintendo survey did more to make Sticker Star what it was (for better or for worse) than Miyamoto himself. We are taking one paragraph as if Miyamoto viciously mandated it like some petty tyrant. I don't mean to undersell Miyamoto's influence because I don't think it was that influential.
 

Jorpho

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Nov 6, 2008
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KDR_11k said:
Superstar Saga was good too, back then it wasn't a formula yet and the more animated combat allowed more variety than Paper Mario. Shame that series went downhill/retreaded old ground until it reached the elevation of downhill.
Partners in Time was still relatively fresh, and Bowser's Inside Story was still kind of nifty, but Dream Team really started to feel like a tired retread. Finishing the Challenges is what really killed it for me (i.e. "dodge x attacks in a row", "finish a battle against x without getting hit").

The immediate predecessor to Superstar Saga was the entirely unrelated Tomato Adventure, but alas, it has yet to be graced with a fan translation. (Translation tools have been made available, though, so it's not at all insurmountable.)
 

Piorn

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Dec 26, 2007
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Now that Yahtzee mentions it, both 2D and 3D Peach have unique qualities that contrast each other very nicely.
wink wink nudge nudge.
 

iller3

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Nov 5, 2014
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Darth_Payn said:
I thought that bit about Hilary becoming President came out of left field, and didn't really add much to the review
Whatever you say man, meanwhile it's the hardest I've laughed at anything Yahtzee's done since he started showing Gabe "how it's done" in darksouls2...

Maybe a lot of people just have Fatigue this year about Politics intersecting with Gaming, but part of that really is the fact that they do have a frightening number of things in common lately if you're fully educated on both of them. ...I think many armchair-Psychologists would agree it makes sense since they're both so reliant on the darker principles of Game-Theory
 

Adeptus Aspartem

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You know, i just noticed that these Mario reviews get downright frightening if you look at the moustaches as mouths. Those faces are the pure horror!
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Multiverseman said:
IMO, I blame Miyamoto for most Mario games being formulaic drivel. From the stuff I've read, whenever Nintendo's teams tried to do something creative or the like with the Mario games after Super Paper Mario, Miyamoto would intervene. It happened with Super Mario Galaxy 2, and it happened again with Sticker Star, and I'm guessing it was also the case here...
And yet I thought Super Mario Galaxy 2 was better than the 1st game.

And I wish for a Super Mario Galaxy 3 on the next Nintendo console.
 

And Man

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May 12, 2014
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xaszatm said:
I'm confused, you're saying Miyamoto stifles creativity in the Mario games...when Sticker Star's whole shtick was that it was copying too much from Thousand Year Door.
This statement honestly baffles me. The complete opposite is true; most people disliked Sticker Star because it had no story whatsoever, while previous Paper Mario games had terrific stories and subplots.

xaszatm said:
...when did I say the game was great? I thought it was a good game by itself, but a poor Paper Mario title. I AGREE that changing the battle system was a poor choice. And I think the more generic story only hurt it in the long run (though I do find that the humor is still there, it's just not as pronounced). When did I say that others had to like Sticker Star for that matter?

Also, I still say the Club Nintendo survey did more to make Sticker Star what it was (for better or for worse) than Miyamoto himself. We are taking one paragraph as if Miyamoto viciously mandated it like some petty tyrant. I don't mean to undersell Miyamoto's influence because I don't think it was that influential.
I don't think the change to the battle system was really a poor choice. The lack of story though is what killed it, since the story and subplots were the strongest aspects of previous Paper Mario games. And Miyamoto is the one that overreacted to the Club Nintendo survey, basically saying "People weren't particularly fond of this story? Fuck it! No more story at all, none whatsoever!"

Samtemdo8 said:
Multiverseman said:
IMO, I blame Miyamoto for most Mario games being formulaic drivel. From the stuff I've read, whenever Nintendo's teams tried to do something creative or the like with the Mario games after Super Paper Mario, Miyamoto would intervene. It happened with Super Mario Galaxy 2, and it happened again with Sticker Star, and I'm guessing it was also the case here...
And yet I thought Super Mario Galaxy 2 was better than the 1st game.

And I wish for a Super Mario Galaxy 3 on the next Nintendo console.
I believe he's referring to how Miyamoto removed from it any semblance of a plot that wasn't "Bowser kidnaps Peach":

http://www.wired.com/2009/06/super-mario-galaxy-2/
 

marioandsonic

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Nov 28, 2009
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Michael Prymula said:
Well, looks like we've already got a candidate for Yahtzee's blandest games list.
Not necessarily. His Super Mario Maker review was pretty harsh, so I was in shock that it didn't make the blandest games list for last year.
 

Catasros

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Dec 9, 2013
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ToastyMozart said:
Catasros said:
to be honest, the Thousand Year Door is one of those games I really hope gets re-released seeing as it's a game I never had the chance to play. And considering that most people seem to really love it, I'm surprised Nintendo has yet to put it up on the eshop, the cost of prettying it up a bit'd be payed off by the end of day one of release. But maybe that's just my wishful thinking...
In the meantime, I think a group of people made a texture mod for a higher resolution UI, so you could just run it in Dolphin until a proper re-release comes around.
Cheers for this, will hopefully enjoy it ^.^