Zero Punctuation: Medal of Honor Warfighter & Doom 3 BFG Edition

[Nieroshai]

Should I be worried that Yahtzee likes yet another game, or vindicated that he likes yet another old game from my childhood?

 

[Warped_Ghost]

It's funny how people accuse him of not liking shooter when some of the games he give the most praise (Half-Life and Painkiller) are shooters.

I'm going to accuse him of not liking survival horror games for the bad review he gave Resident Evil 5.

I guess none of the titles he reviewed seems appealing to me. I guess I like modern shooters a tad more than he does, but only because he really, really hates them. Hilarious as always though.

The problem is he doesn't play multiplayer. Which is what those spark gunkle wee wee games focus on. I would hate all modern shooter if I only played the single player as well because FFS they are all hopelessly boring and identical.

Yeah, it's not like he recently played a multiplayer game which he enjoyed. Let's just ignore the facts that collide with our opinions.

That would be a point in my favour if he actually played the multiplayer in a game and enjoyed it. I'm not trying to bash ZP here. I am just wondering why he even bothers to review modern shooter games anymore.

Yeah, it's horrible that people who review games sometimes don't like them. They shouldn't be allowed to say negative things about games simply because that's how they feel, it's outrageous how some critics have integrity rather than giving high scores to any big release.

Edit: Also it's not a point in your favour. You basically just did the "He hates shooters" except with multiplayer. Ignore the things that doesn't fit into your theory, but don't get upset when someone calls you out on your bullshit.

I am not commenting on whether he likes the game or not but rather that he only reviews the single player aspect of game.

And you act like I watch ZP for positive reviews... or that I care that MOH: War Fighter got a low review. I can say after playing the last MOH my assumptions about war fighter coincide with ZP's disdain for the game.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think you're looking for a positive review.

I have merely stated two statements. He does give praise to some shooters and he does sometimes give praise to multiplayer. Don't change the subject, put words into my mouth and ignore your previous posts.

"Yeah, it's horrible that people who review games sometimes don't like them. They shouldn't be allowed to say negative things about games simply because that's how they feel, it's outrageous how some critics have integrity rather than giving high scores to any big release."
-Yopaz
That hardly looks like I am putting words into your mouth when you say I was looking for a positive review. Unless that wasn't an attempt at sarcasm I will confidently say that it looked like you thought that I wanted a positive review.

 

[Atmos Duality]

You're right! War is, by definition, uncivil! Let's end these bullshit, I mean it's just getting in the way of soldiers. Let's just tell them to get in there and do the right thing! I mean, it's for the protection of all, right? Land mines, gas and flamethrowers for all! Women and children? Fuck that, they knew what they were getting into! That definitely makes us the good guys, right? After all they're killing all the people we want dead, right? What's could possibly be wrong with that?

I could lecture you on how painfully naive your line of thinking is, but I'll make a simple request instead:

Take your message of ethical combat to someplace like South Africa, or maybe the Cartel states in Central America. Or perhaps even Serbia where the majority of their population has served in the military.

Ask them how "ethical" real war is, and why neither them nor the other guys "play fair".

The best way to prevent the horrors of war from happening again is to recognize them as horrors, and NOT to undersell them or lump them in with this "police action" bullshit as so many first world countries do today.

In real war, there are no laws but those of physics and nature.

Still feeling so smart?

Leave the pretentious jabs out.
You aren't cowing anyone here.

 

[plainlake]

AHH so this is why I come to this site, I remember now, Grade A review Yahtzee!

 

[plainlake]

The enemies in that mission with the robot are Somali pirates. It's explained in the prologue bit before the mission, and they start shooting at you the second you show up. If "they're demons, and demons are dicks" is enough story context for Yahtzee in Doom 3, then "Somali pirates are real-world dicks and duck, cause they're trying to kill you" is likely enough for someone else.

It's pretty explicitly stated what the scenario is, and the levels in Warfighter (tee hee) are based on actual Special Operations missions. So Yahtzee either wasn't paying attention, or is just saying he didn't know what was going on as a way of explaining that the story didn't engage him. Which is fine - we come here for his opinions after all, so he's certainly entitled to them.

You do realize that Somali pirates took up that "job" because that's the only way they get to eat right?

They are not intrinsically dicks, they are desperate because they live under the thumbprint of few warlords that brutally opress the population. So yeh, the game is still trivializing real-life horror and death.

Thank you, he needed to hear that.

 

[UncleAsriel]

I'm late to this party, but

I don't always agree with Yahtzee, but I agree with every sentiment expressed in this episode.

I couldn't agree more. I never got far into Doom 3, but the flashlight mechanic - while a plot hole, in terms of how it works in the story - was scary as hell, and worked well for keeping tension high (just like how Jim Sterling talked about the jump scare in previous weeks). Still, Doom 3 was competently done in setting tone and making the player feel a sense of agency in the world.

Most of the Spunkgargleweewee genre tends towards being deployed into a region and following orders. While tactical shooting is fun (as paintball's popularity can attest to), in a game it's less thrilling when it becomes so repetitive.


Also, I personally vote the line "Stick your balls up your arse and clench yourself castrated" as one of the funniest lines I've heard on ZP (and indeed, in any form of media) in the past week-and-a-bit. Glorious return to form, Mr Crowshaw!

 

[xdiesp]

Actually that's a good name for the genre, "First Person Ordersfollower."

Tell Yahtzee, he'll agree.

 

[OuroborosChoked]

Doom 3 is underrated. It's not a classic, but it's a nice mix of original Doom and System Shock 2.

Excuse me? How exactly is Doom 3 even remotely similar to System Shock 2? Because it has audio logs?

You don't develop your character, your decisions have no impact on the game (because the game doesn't allow you to make any), you never feel threatened or in any kind of real danger, your only real objective is to shoot everything that pops up in front of you... worst of all, it's just uninteresting. All you do is shoot the same enemies in hallways for 20 hours. If it wasn't really 20 hours, it sure as hell felt like 20 hours.

I first played SS2 in 2005 and found it to be a completely terrifying experience because Looking Glass Studios were masters of using sound in their games... something I wish modern developers would do more of. The sounds of what *might* be around the corner is what terrifies you (the Thief games were the same way). In my case, the babbling many with shotguns and telekinetic monkeys. You might laugh... but those monkeys fuck you up. If you don't build your character right, you could start off with really low health and one hit from those bastards will do you in. I got as far as the second area of the first level and couldn't play any more. It was just too stressful. I eventually did go back and play it again and again and again... and relished it completely. Oh, and unlike the shooters and spunkgargleweewees of today, the hard mode on SS2 is actually hard... like nearly impossible, if you don't play it exactly right.

System Shock 2 was and still is a masterpiece... if any game is like SS2, it's Deus Ex. And thank goodness for that! With Bioshock fucking up the "shock" legacy, at least one series is getting it right...

 

[Magmarock]

This is one of his best I think. One of the best ZP reviews I've seen in a while.

 

[Yopaz]

It's funny how people accuse him of not liking shooter when some of the games he give the most praise (Half-Life and Painkiller) are shooters.

I'm going to accuse him of not liking survival horror games for the bad review he gave Resident Evil 5.

I guess none of the titles he reviewed seems appealing to me. I guess I like modern shooters a tad more than he does, but only because he really, really hates them. Hilarious as always though.

The problem is he doesn't play multiplayer. Which is what those spark gunkle wee wee games focus on. I would hate all modern shooter if I only played the single player as well because FFS they are all hopelessly boring and identical.

Yeah, it's not like he recently played a multiplayer game which he enjoyed. Let's just ignore the facts that collide with our opinions.

That would be a point in my favour if he actually played the multiplayer in a game and enjoyed it. I'm not trying to bash ZP here. I am just wondering why he even bothers to review modern shooter games anymore.

Yeah, it's horrible that people who review games sometimes don't like them. They shouldn't be allowed to say negative things about games simply because that's how they feel, it's outrageous how some critics have integrity rather than giving high scores to any big release.

Edit: Also it's not a point in your favour. You basically just did the "He hates shooters" except with multiplayer. Ignore the things that doesn't fit into your theory, but don't get upset when someone calls you out on your bullshit.

I am not commenting on whether he likes the game or not but rather that he only reviews the single player aspect of game.

And you act like I watch ZP for positive reviews... or that I care that MOH: War Fighter got a low review. I can say after playing the last MOH my assumptions about war fighter coincide with ZP's disdain for the game.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think you're looking for a positive review.

I have merely stated two statements. He does give praise to some shooters and he does sometimes give praise to multiplayer. Don't change the subject, put words into my mouth and ignore your previous posts.

"Yeah, it's horrible that people who review games sometimes don't like them. They shouldn't be allowed to say negative things about games simply because that's how they feel, it's outrageous how some critics have integrity rather than giving high scores to any big release."
-Yopaz
That hardly looks like I am putting words into your mouth when you say I was looking for a positive review. Unless that wasn't an attempt at sarcasm I will confidently say that it looked like you thought that I wanted a positive review.

So you're taking a sarcastic sentence to prove your point?

Now what happened to not changing the subject here? What happened to:

The problem is he doesn't play multiplayer.

Are we supposed to just ignore the sentence that started this pointless discussion now that we've established that he does occasionally enjoy multiplayer so we have to assume he plays multiplayer? You're changing the subject and you wont even admit that you're changing the subject. I am done discussing this so there's no need to reply.

 

[TheSteeleStrap]

Anyone else up for making Modern Military Shooter a legit phrase, and spread it around?

 

[Sepko]

Possibly his worst review. Usually if he's not funny his opinions are fascinating or if his review is flawed and biased he makes up for it with humor. This was a failure in both aspects. It was made desperately unfunny by Yahtzee's rage being out of character. He should be exasperated at best, you shouldn't be able to see the smoke coming out of his ears. His insights into the state of shooters came right from the playbook of the contrarian "true gamer" manifesto (which would explain why so many people on this thread seem to like it). Most critics try to obscure or distract from their biases. Yahtzee holds it up and screams at the top of his lungs.

It's hard to convince people that Yahtzee really is worth watching when he makes episodes like this. Seriously? For shame.

You haven't watched this show very long, have you? Screaming his biases is kind of Yahtzee's shtick.
Also humour is in the eye of the beholder.
Also what's in this 'contrarian "true gamer" manifesto', and what does it have to do with Yahtzee's frustrations with the constant popularity of kill-the-brownies shooters?

 

[Nazulu]

Possibly his worst review. Usually if he's not funny his opinions are fascinating or if his review is flawed and biased he makes up for it with humor. This was a failure in both aspects. It was made desperately unfunny by Yahtzee's rage being out of character. He should be exasperated at best, you shouldn't be able to see the smoke coming out of his ears. His insights into the state of shooters came right from the playbook of the contrarian "true gamer" manifesto (which would explain why so many people on this thread seem to like it). Most critics try to obscure or distract from their biases. Yahtzee holds it up and screams at the top of his lungs.

It's hard to convince people that Yahtzee really is worth watching when he makes episodes like this. Seriously? For shame.

He made it clear awhile ago of what he is sick of seeing in modern shooters, what makes the experience bland, and why he generalises them and splits them into it's own category. He's simply sick of having to play them or even see them so he takes the piss out of them, same with so many other people. He's not biased, he know what he wants and he gives us hints during nearly every one of his vids, even though he has changed his mind some times.

Yahtzees been controversial from the beginning and no one I know can agree with every thing he says, just enjoy how he blows of steam. You should of seen how much smoke he released during the Sonic Unleashed and Halo RTS game review.

 

[Link Satonaka]

I'm late to this party, but

I don't always agree with Yahtzee, but I agree with every sentiment expressed in this episode.

I couldn't agree more. I never got far into Doom 3, but the flashlight mechanic - while a plot hole, in terms of how it works in the story - was scary as hell, and worked well for keeping tension high (just like how Jim Sterling talked about the jump scare in previous weeks). Still, Doom 3 was competently done in setting tone and making the player feel a sense of agency in the world.

Most of the Spunkgargleweewee genre tends towards being deployed into a region and following orders. While tactical shooting is fun (as paintball's popularity can attest to), in a game it's less thrilling when it becomes so repetitive.


Also, I personally vote the line "Stick your balls up your arse and clench yourself castrated" as one of the funniest lines I've heard on ZP (and indeed, in any form of media) in the past week-and-a-bit. Glorious return to form, Mr Crowshaw!

Yeah I never got around to finishing Doom 3 and was tempted to buy the remake or whatever it is, but when I heard about he flashlight holding... I decided I would just go and play the original. Some day. Probably.

Having good taste in games these days is hard: I feel like I'm becoming a hipster of sorts, since I'm forced to say things like "I don't play those mainstream FPS games", and then I immediate recoil in horror at these words that have fallen out of my mouth. I used to be a big online gamer; I still love playing Quake III Arena, UT2004, Halo 1 (the real halo 1 for PC, none of that shitty Reach map-pack-addon stuff they try to pass off as halo multiplayer on the 360 re-release), etc online. But I don't play nearly as much as I used to: all of my friends are off playing whatever is the latest popular shooter, and I'm sure I'd have fun playing with them, but I just don't want to spend $60 on a game just so I can play with my friends, when they're going to move on to some other shitty game within half a year and I'm not going to just dish out money for these awful games at the drop of a hat. Plus whenever I try to play these games I find the arbitrary "realism" very annoying and stupid, and more often than not it annoys me that these 'war simulators' claim to be realistic but glorify violence and killing usually in the name of Amurica. I would give anything to just have good old fantasy back where I can shoot things and enjoy it without this nagging, lingering feeling of "this is rather distasteful".


Also, your name indicates you have great taste. I approve.

 

[ThatDarnCoyote]

You do realize that Somali pirates took up that "job" because that's the only way they get to eat right?

They are not intrinsically dicks, they are desperate because they live under the thumbprint of few warlords that brutally opress the population. So yeh, the game is still trivializing real-life horror and death.

Yes, I do. But I also realize that the Somali pirates and the oppressive Somali warlords are By pirates [http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Africa/2008/1120/p25s22-woaf.html].

Anyway, a murderous dick [http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-20034691.html].

I understand your point about "trivializing real-life horror and death", but can't that charge be levied at just about any game with a realistic or semi-realistic setting? Is Max Payne 3 morally objectionable because it references "trivializing" that [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-brazil-crimebre8a61mv-20121107,0,7231938.story]?

 

[cwDeici34]

The game is stupid and childish and should give more background and humane characterization to the pirates.

However, it's still disgusting to see here how so many people partially excuse the acts of piracy because most pirates have had little to no choice.
I'm also offended by the assumption that all Somali pirates have had no choice, that is an insult to those many Somalis who lead honest lives despite their hardships.

 

[Grach]

Yes, I do. But I also realize that the Somali pirates and the oppressive Somali warlords are By pirates [http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Africa/2008/1120/p25s22-woaf.html].

Anyway, a murderous dick [http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-20034691.html].

I understand your point about "trivializing real-life horror and death", but can't that charge be levied at just about any game with a realistic or semi-realistic setting? Is Max Payne 3 morally objectionable because it references "trivializing" that [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-brazil-crimebre8a61mv-20121107,0,7231938.story]?

First off, a "murderous dick with a sob story" is called a victim. I doubt Somalia would even have pirates if it had the development level of say, Mexico. Why bother ransacking boats when you can learn a profession and get money that way? Besides, it's not like they could do something, the ones that do tend to die horribly. Again, the only way they can eat. Besides, the head assholes get the lion's share of the loot.

And by the way, it may be true that GTA or Saints Row trivialize real life pain, but at least they have the decency to actually be good games. Saint Row's a pretty weird example, since it takes refuge in audacity so much that I don't know why you bother to bring it up (peaople ragdolize instantly and seem to be made out of rubber, old ladies will pummel you to death if you punch them, side missions include doing cartoonish damage to yourself, etc). For Max Payne 3, yeah, I do agree on that one. That's why I don't play it (acompanied by a very big scoop of indiference towards the franchise in general).

 

[Warped_Ghost]

It's funny how people accuse him of not liking shooter when some of the games he give the most praise (Half-Life and Painkiller) are shooters.

I'm going to accuse him of not liking survival horror games for the bad review he gave Resident Evil 5.

I guess none of the titles he reviewed seems appealing to me. I guess I like modern shooters a tad more than he does, but only because he really, really hates them. Hilarious as always though.

The problem is he doesn't play multiplayer. Which is what those spark gunkle wee wee games focus on. I would hate all modern shooter if I only played the single player as well because FFS they are all hopelessly boring and identical.

Yeah, it's not like he recently played a multiplayer game which he enjoyed. Let's just ignore the facts that collide with our opinions.

That would be a point in my favour if he actually played the multiplayer in a game and enjoyed it. I'm not trying to bash ZP here. I am just wondering why he even bothers to review modern shooter games anymore.

Yeah, it's horrible that people who review games sometimes don't like them. They shouldn't be allowed to say negative things about games simply because that's how they feel, it's outrageous how some critics have integrity rather than giving high scores to any big release.

Edit: Also it's not a point in your favour. You basically just did the "He hates shooters" except with multiplayer. Ignore the things that doesn't fit into your theory, but don't get upset when someone calls you out on your bullshit.

I am not commenting on whether he likes the game or not but rather that he only reviews the single player aspect of game.

And you act like I watch ZP for positive reviews... or that I care that MOH: War Fighter got a low review. I can say after playing the last MOH my assumptions about war fighter coincide with ZP's disdain for the game.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think you're looking for a positive review.

I have merely stated two statements. He does give praise to some shooters and he does sometimes give praise to multiplayer. Don't change the subject, put words into my mouth and ignore your previous posts.

"Yeah, it's horrible that people who review games sometimes don't like them. They shouldn't be allowed to say negative things about games simply because that's how they feel, it's outrageous how some critics have integrity rather than giving high scores to any big release."
-Yopaz
That hardly looks like I am putting words into your mouth when you say I was looking for a positive review. Unless that wasn't an attempt at sarcasm I will confidently say that it looked like you thought that I wanted a positive review.

So you're taking a sarcastic sentence to prove your point?

Now what happened to not changing the subject here? What happened to:

The problem is he doesn't play multiplayer.

Are we supposed to just ignore the sentence that started this pointless discussion now that we've established that he does occasionally enjoy multiplayer so we have to assume he plays multiplayer? You're changing the subject and you wont even admit that you're changing the subject. I am done discussing this so there's no need to reply.

Just a heads up if you want to be a far more respectable debater try not to end every post with an obvious insult to your opponent. It degrades the entire post.