Zero Punctuation: Metroid Prime Federation Force

Imp_Emissary

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Well, I guess Metroid fans can always just play the Prime trilogy again.

If this game doesn't sell, Nintendo will probably take that as a sign that no one wants Metroid games, and if the game sells they'll take that to mean they want more Metroid games where you don't play as Samus. Either way looks bad for the fans.

I guess Nintendo could take a closer look at criticisms of the game's direction and listen to pleas from fans asking for more regular Metroid games.
However, I should warn those waiting for that that while it is "safe" to hold your breath until that day comes, but make sure you're in a safe place to pass out.

Anyway, thanks for the show. =w= b
 
Jan 27, 2011
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So, in others words, replay Metroid Prime 1 or 2 instead (Just started playing Prime 2, actually, friend lent it to me), or just track down AM2R (the fan remake of Metroid 2 that I can confirm is actually pretty damn good) and play that instead of buying Federation Farce. Gotcha.

Seriously, Nintendo, stop mistreating Metroid please? I know you guys want more original ideas instead of straight up sequels, mario style, but this is terrible.

Give us a sequel to Fusion, with Samus on the run from the federation, trying to deal with her new Metroid DNA corrupting her, and with perhaps temporary powerups to your beam gained by draining enemies of energy like an actual Metroid as she explores a derelict research station, hovering around a deadly planet, and maybe with a prison break sequence to start things off. And with Samus taking the piss out of her ship's AI, making fun of how shitty "Adam" was in Other M. like, I dunno, "Scans indicate some parts of this zone are exceedingly cold. Your Varia module is currently compromised. Be cautious" "At least this time you aren't forgetting to authorize me to use it, Adam. I mean, seriously." "Will you EVER let me live that down, Samus?" "Should I?".

Like, 2D or 3D or 2D with Smash Bros 3D graphics, I don't care. Just give us something that actually stays true to the spirit of the Metroid series. Hell, even the DS metroid game was alright, as long as you forgive some of the shitty instant-death platforming bits.
 

Imp_Emissary

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aegix drakan said:
And with Samus taking the piss out of her ship's AI, making fun of how shitty "Adam" was in Other M. like, I dunno, "Scans indicate some parts of this zone are exceedingly cold. Your Varia module is currently compromised. Be cautious" "At least this time you aren't forgetting to authorize me to use it, Adam. I mean, seriously." "Will you EVER let me live that down, Samus?" "Should I?".
Adam will never live that down.
Cause he's [email protected]#king dead! >xD

The one good thing about that terrible story.
 

darkrage6

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Yes thank you Yahtzee for shitting all over this terrible excuse for a Metroid game, another bad thing about this game is the graphics look horribly outdated, seriously they look like they could've been on the regular DS(Metroid Prime Hunters looked better)

On a side note, next week Yahtzee is going to be on the Co Optional Podcast with Total Biscuit, cannot fucking wait for that.
 

Bedinsis

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Regarding games that do not contain the usual protagonist:

How was Half Life: Opposing Force and Blue Shift received?

darkrage6 said:
On a side note, next week Yahtzee is going to be on the Co Optional Podcast with Total Biscuit,[..]
Thanks for the heads up!
 
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Imp Emissary said:
aegix drakan said:
And with Samus taking the piss out of her ship's AI, making fun of how shitty "Adam" was in Other M. like, I dunno, "Scans indicate some parts of this zone are exceedingly cold. Your Varia module is currently compromised. Be cautious" "At least this time you aren't forgetting to authorize me to use it, Adam. I mean, seriously." "Will you EVER let me live that down, Samus?" "Should I?".
Adam will never live that down.
Cause he's [email protected]#king dead! >xD

The one good thing about that terrible story.
Ummm....

Adam's mind was preserved as an AI template for military applications, and is actually the AI commanding officer on her ship for the duration of Metroid fusion.

Which actually makes Other M an even BIGGER kick in the nads (Fusion was made first, but Other M is a prequel). In Fusion, Samus tells us how Adam was the only person to call her lady and make it sound "dignified" instead of sarcastic and how "Any Objections, Lady?" was more a form of trust between them rather than actually asking for objections. Also, he was smart, taking Samus's reckless last-second plan, pointing out the flaw in it, and then going "Actually, there's a much safer way to do it, which ALSO ensures 100% success instead of just a partial one".

...And then Other M makes Samus have daddy issues with him, makes him calling her "lady" be almost a joke, makes the "Any objections, lady" into even more of a joke, has him and the rest of the squad treat her with kids gloves instead of the respect Fusion says she got, and makes Adam an idiot who waits until after Samus is THROUGH the fire area before going "ok, NOW activate Varia mode". ...Not to mention it turning Samus from a reckless one-woman-army into an emotional but barely emotive idiot who turns OFF her varia suit despite it not posing any threat to the station, and not ASKING for it to be authorized again when entering a hot area.

...Sorry about the blahblahblah. Fusion was my first game in the series, getting me into the rest of them, and seeing it get stomped on by Other M (which also nullified Prime 1, my favourite in the series) just really really irritated me. >_>
 

Enzbe

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Beardy, bald, hopeless Nintendo Fanboy with glasses, wearing a Mario shirt? I see what you did there, Yahtzee and I like it.


Any chance he's going to play the Attack on Titan game? He would shit on EVERYTHING but he might enjoy the movement somewhat.
 

Steve the Pocket

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darkrage6 said:
Yes thank you Yahtzee for shitting all over this terrible excuse for a Metroid game, another bad thing about this game is the graphics look horribly outdated, seriously they look like they could've been on the regular DS(Metroid Prime Hunters looked better)

On a side note, next week Yahtzee is going to be on the Co Optional Podcast with Total Biscuit, cannot fucking wait for that.
'Bout damn time those two did something together; I'm legitimately surprise the Escapist hasn't snatched Mr. Bain up by now, although it's very possible that Jim Sterling has warned him not to have anything to do with them.
 

EyeReaper

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I was one of the few people who actually kinda had hopes for this game. cuz it looked a bit like a sci-fi monster hunter type deal. Then here comes captain Yahtzee to tell me that the best thing about the game is the dumb football thing that I was going to ignore completely is the best part.

Oh well. Maybe next time Adam will authorize a good game. You know, in the next thirty years.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Enzbe said:
Beardy, bald, hopeless Nintendo Fanboy with glasses, wearing a Mario shirt? I see what you did there, Yahtzee and I like it.
Oooooooooh now I get it ;)
 

Transdude1996

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Bedinsis said:
Regarding games that do not contain the usual protagonist:

How was Half Life: Opposing Force and Blue Shift received?
Blue Shift was a console exclusive alternate story for the Dreamcast version of Half-Life, and that was cancelled a month from release. So, how do you think it was received?

Also, I'm not sure about everyone else, but I've just given up on Nintendo. Half-way through last year, it seems like the company has been very insistent about making sure their customers feel like their money is better spent elsewhere.
 

loa

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Seriously, which moron decided that quality 2d metroid games had to die with the gba and that metroid hunters of all things was the new gold standard for portable metroid games?
Fusion was great, zero mission was great. Nintendo had a great thing going. What's the deal?
 

thewatergamer

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You mean...the thing that metroid and nintendo fans alike said looked like an absolute shit game wearing the metroid franchise name turned out to be an absolute shit game wearing the metroid franchise name? Nah, Nintendo knows what the fans want! I mean look at the Wii-U, What? *incoherent whispering* oh right...*ahem* I mean look at the Nintendo NX! The thing you know nothing about!
 

SeaCalMaster

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Transdude1996 said:
Bedinsis said:
Regarding games that do not contain the usual protagonist:

How was Half Life: Opposing Force and Blue Shift received?
Blue Shift was a console exclusive alternate story for the Dreamcast version of Half-Life, and that was cancelled a month from release. So, how do you think it was received?
Um... It was definitely finished, and it's on Steam right now.

Can someone explain to me how Other M makes the Prime games non-canon? That doesn't make any sense at all.
 

byte4554_v1legacy

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Transdude1996 said:
Bedinsis said:
Regarding games that do not contain the usual protagonist:

How was Half Life: Opposing Force and Blue Shift received?
Blue Shift was a console exclusive alternate story for the Dreamcast version of Half-Life, and that was cancelled a month from release. So, how do you think it was received?

Also, I'm not sure about everyone else, but I've just given up on Nintendo. Half-way through last year, it seems like the company has been very insistent about making sure their customers feel like their money is better spent elsewhere.
Actually, it was eventually ported to PC. Going by reviews, Opposing Force is regarded as pretty good, and Blue Shift is seen as good enough.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Bedinsis said:
Regarding games that do not contain the usual protagonist:

How was Half Life: Opposing Force and Blue Shift received?
As far as I know, op4 eventually gave birth to Counter-Strike, so that's that.
 
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SeaCalMaster said:
Transdude1996 said:
Bedinsis said:
Regarding games that do not contain the usual protagonist:

How was Half Life: Opposing Force and Blue Shift received?
Blue Shift was a console exclusive alternate story for the Dreamcast version of Half-Life, and that was cancelled a month from release. So, how do you think it was received?
Um... It was definitely finished, and it's on Steam right now.

Can someone explain to me how Other M makes the Prime games non-canon? That doesn't make any sense at all.
A quick google search says that it's because in Other M, she claims she hasn't take orders from the military or worked with the federation forces since leaving Adam's command.

She's pretty much working nonstop with the Federation army through all of Prime 3. That seems to be it, really.

That and removing the Prime Series lowers the "Ridley slain" counter down from about 4 to just 2, making her freak out moment 1% more believable.
 

Igor-Rowan

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aegix drakan said:
Not sure if that was intentional on Yahtzee's part, but the director of the Prime games, who doesn't work with Retro Studios anymore, released this week his most recent game, ReCore, with the help of none other than Comcept, it went as well as you might expect. Now the fact is that he's gone may have something to do with the Metroid-less Retro Studios.

I think that Metroid is their most experimental series... ever, Nintendo outright refuses to let anyone work on Mario or Zelda because they have memories of the last time they let, and because the Metroid Prime Trilogy were the first Nintendo games developed outside of Japan, without direct interference from Nintendo of Japan [kinda redundant saying that], and after the blunder of Team Ninja and Sakamoto, I don't think Nintendo is going to trust anyone else to work with their franchises as the CDi scars re-opened with the sales and critics of Other M. But FF does appear to set up something, and considering it's a game set just before Metroid II, I think they have plans for Samus.
 

GrumbleGrump

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It's nice to see Yahtzee snorting a line of coke for these. It shows dedication.
Yeah, Metroid has been dead ever since the stroke that was Other M killed the franchise, so this game sounds more like the end of rigor mortis than anything that will revive the franchise. I say kick Sakamoto in the head, give the franchise to Retro Studios and officially declare Other M as in-universe Space Pirate propaganda.

SeaCalMaster said:
Can someone explain to me how Other M makes the Prime games non-canon? That doesn't make any sense at all.
It's easy. Yoshio Sakamoto, the former director of the franchise [footnote]I say former because I trust the fucking janitor of Nintendo more than him now.[/footnote], came out and flat out stated that the Prime series was non-canon. Why? I don't know. Probably because he thinks that it doesn't fit with the new "Samus", the amazing armour-clad ovary.
 
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GrumbleGrump said:
officially declare Other M as in-universe Space Pirate propaganda.
I like this idea. XD

You know, I'm still shocked at the people who defended Other M. Seriously, it was preposterous how much context they ignored, and how much actual proof/visuals/text they glossed over when declaring that Other M did a good job with Samus. >_>
 

TelosSupreme

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Silentpony said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Enzbe said:
Beardy, bald, hopeless Nintendo Fanboy with glasses, wearing a Mario shirt? I see what you did there, Yahtzee and I like it.
Oooooooooh now I get it ;)
What, is he making fun of Boogie or something?
He's likely referring to moviebob, who used to made videos here before he lost his marbles.
 

SeaCalMaster

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GrumbleGrump said:
It's easy. Yoshio Sakamoto, the former director of the franchise [footnote]I say former because I trust the fucking janitor of Nintendo more than him now.[/footnote], came out and flat out stated that the Prime series was non-canon. Why? I don't know. Probably because he thinks that it doesn't fit with the new "Samus", the amazing armour-clad ovary.
Do you have a source for this? I can't find it. The closest I can find is Sakamoto saying that he wasn't directly involved with the story for the Prime games, but that's very different from declaring them non-canon.
 

GrumbleGrump

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aegix drakan said:
You know, I'm still shocked at the people who defended Other M. Seriously, it was preposterous how much context they ignored, and how much actual proof/visuals/text they glossed over when declaring that Other M did a good job with Samus. >_>
Back in the glory days, when The Escapist had it's own in-house Nintendo fanboy, he used to say that "Samus"[footnote]Meaning Other M Samus.[/footnote] was better than Samus because she had a character and that all the characterization that Samus had was invented by fans. Which is weird, considering that Super Metroid alone gives her a few traits before gameplay even starts. This also implies that he thinks no character is automatically worse that having a character, which the Legend of Zelda cartoons and Zelda CD-I games inmediatly disprove.

Ahh, the good old days...

SeaCalMaster said:
GrumbleGrump said:
It's easy. Yoshio Sakamoto, the former director of the franchise [footnote]I say former because I trust the fucking janitor of Nintendo more than him now.[/footnote], came out and flat out stated that the Prime series was non-canon. Why? I don't know. Probably because he thinks that it doesn't fit with the new "Samus", the amazing armour-clad ovary.
Do you have a source for this? I can't find it. The closest I can find is Sakamoto saying that he wasn't directly involved with the story for the Prime games, but that's very different from declaring them non-canon.
Now that I look for it, apparently it was a mistranlated interview that said it. The actual intention was that it didn't need the Prime games to work or that the Prime games are something like their own thing. Regardless, it still doesn't change the fact that Other M doesn't work with anything, since "Samus" acts completely disconnected from every other Metroid game. In fact it just makes the Ridley scene in MOM way more stupid, since Samus has killed him about 4 times now (5 times in Fusion, after MOM).
 

Erttheking

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So the thing that looked like it was a total disgrace to the Metroid franchise turned out to be just that?

And people told me I was jumping to conclusions. Because apparently every single thing about the game spitting in the face of Metroid fans wasn't proof that it would be a bad game. No, instead it turned out to be an AVERAGE game...that spat in the face of Metroid fans.

That'll teach me for being right...
 
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GrumbleGrump said:
aegix drakan said:
You know, I'm still shocked at the people who defended Other M. Seriously, it was preposterous how much context they ignored, and how much actual proof/visuals/text they glossed over when declaring that Other M did a good job with Samus. >_>
Back in the glory days, when The Escapist had it's own in-house Nintendo fanboy, he used to say that "Samus"[footnote]Meaning Other M Samus.[/footnote] was better than Samus because she had a character and that all the characterization that Samus had was invented by fans. Which is weird, considering that Super Metroid alone gives her a few traits before gameplay even starts. This also implies that he thinks no character is automatically worse that having a character, which the Legend of Zelda cartoons and Zelda CD-I games inmediatly disprove.

Ahh, the good old days...
That's just the tip of the problems with his Other M defense.

He also ignored the various points in the Prime series where Samus shows emotion.
Her fear while standing her ground against Metal Ridley in Prime 1. The actual terror in her eyes staring down Dark Samus in the finale of Prime 2. Her anger and determination when one of her foes in Prime 3 took her own form while dying just so Samus would "See herself die". Her brief gesture of respect over the head of a dead trooper who died leaving behind a recording of the attack on their ship. Her slight hesitation, then lowering her weapon when confronted with a strange species asking for her help, before deciding to trust it. These are not the motions of a "Statue", but rather the actions of a quiet, but focused individual person. Samus knows fear, anger and sadness, she just doesn't show it.

Not to mention he ignored the ACTUAL first story driven metroid. Fusion. You know, the game Other M is a prequel to?

Samus talks a LOT in that game. She monologues on a LOT of elevator trips. We see into her head as a quiet, thoughtful, even nostalgic but ultimately highly focused individual who is slightly irritated at her reputation as an ice queen, but not troubled by it. We see she is reckless and will immediately throw her life away for an important-enough cause. We see that she understands the situation on the ground with crystal clarity, but lacks some of the big-picture vision others have. We see that even though some things "Strike a nameless fear" into her heart, she will face it anyway.

Again, these are not the actions of a statue.

Not to mention her soft side, shown at the end of Metroid 2. >_>

Seriously, that's the point for me where he jumped the shark and I couldn't take his game opinions seriously anymore. :s How can you overlook all of THAT and say that the "I am an emotionless emotional robot who is too stupid to ask for Varia suit authorization, and I will crumble in fear at the sight of the nemesis I've slain again and again" version of samus is the better one? -_-

I mean if they wanted to
have Samus be incapacitated and rescued by the other guy, there's a perfectly reasonable way to do it. Have her flash back to moments facing down Ridley, then scream in anger and shout "How many times do I have to kill you?!" before unleashing weapons that are NOT authorized yet, causing damage to the station, and focusing too much on heaping damage on Ridley to think about evading. Then, afterwards, have her comment something like "I let my hatred consume me. One moment of weakness was all it took. I resolved to do better" or something.
 

Transdude1996

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erttheking said:
So the thing that looked like it was a total disgrace to the Metroid franchise turned out to be just that?

And people told me I was jumping to conclusions. Because apparently every single thing about the game spitting in the face of Metroid fans wasn't proof that it would be a bad game. No, instead it turned out to be an AVERAGE game...that spat in the face of Metroid fans.

That'll teach me for being right...
Well, it doesn't help that the game was released on the series' 30th anniversary, and a complete fan remake of Metroid 2 seemed to show more dedication to the series than Nintendo has done since sentencing Retro Studios to remake Donkey Kong.

Actually, now that I think about, a lot of the best "Nintendo" games released in recent years haven't actually been developed by Nintendo. And, it seems quite funny that they take offense to this by proceeding to take out anything new that was good in favor of showing the masses the "superior capabilities" of programmers nearing retirement, or just drop the series all together.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Maybe after all the people being pissed off as how Samus was portrayed in Other M Nintendo just preferred to not show her so no one could complain about that...
 

darkrage6

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Steve the Pocket said:
darkrage6 said:
Yes thank you Yahtzee for shitting all over this terrible excuse for a Metroid game, another bad thing about this game is the graphics look horribly outdated, seriously they look like they could've been on the regular DS(Metroid Prime Hunters looked better)

On a side note, next week Yahtzee is going to be on the Co Optional Podcast with Total Biscuit, cannot fucking wait for that.
'Bout damn time those two did something together; I'm legitimately surprise the Escapist hasn't snatched Mr. Bain up by now, although it's very possible that Jim Sterling has warned him not to have anything to do with them.
Total Biscuit does not want to work for gaming journalism websites as he does not trust them, and considering the Escapist is doing freaking sponsored videos for exploitative mobile garbage like Clash of Kings, I can't blame him, there's just something very wrong about that.
 

MysticSlayer

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Well, at least there's going to be a Mario game on smartphones later this year...

You know what, fuck Nintendo. I never liked Metroid anyways...

 

Thanatos2k

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This game shows the trap of catering purely to the Japanese market, as is one of Nintendo's pathetic trademarks. Simply put - co-op multiplayer focused games on handhelds don't work outside Japan. People drive to work, so they can't play video games while doing so. This hopelessly Japan-centric design has killed other games, and it's blatantly obvious it killed this one too. StreetPass focused nonsense also has clearly failed outside Japan, and I'm sure this game is filled with that garbage too.

Worse, they couldn't even be bothered to balance the game for single player, which put the nail into the coffin.

And then the cherry on the shit sundae, they slapped Metroid on it purely for brand recognition purposes.

MrGoodSocks said:
Is it just me, or is he talking faster and sounding more... British?
Yeah, something is definitely off with the tone in his voice. Maybe he's sick.
 

Erttheking

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inu-kun said:
Maybe after all the people being pissed off as how Samus was portrayed in Other M Nintendo just preferred to not show her so no one could complain about that...
Well that backfired, didn't it? Maybe that's a good indicator that Nintendo doesn't know what the fuck it's doing with Metroid. I thought we had all the proof we needed with Other M, but this kind of cements it.

And if that really is what Nintendo did than it was utterly boneheaded and cowardly.
 

GrumbleGrump

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aegix drakan said:
I mean if they wanted to
have Samus be incapacitated and rescued by the other guy, there's a perfectly reasonable way to do it. Have her flash back to moments facing down Ridley, then scream in anger and shout "How many times do I have to kill you?!" before unleashing weapons that are NOT authorized yet, causing damage to the station, and focusing too much on heaping damage on Ridley to think about evading. Then, afterwards, have her comment something like "I let my hatred consume me. One moment of weakness was all it took. I resolved to do better" or something.
I don't really like this either, but it's way better that what Other M showed. To be honest, I'd rather have her being blindsided by Ridley and then getting rescued by Tony rather than the overly dramatic tripe presented in the game.
 

Gatlank

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Transdude1996 said:
Actually, now that I think about, a lot of the best "Nintendo" games released in recent years haven't actually been developed by Nintendo. And, it seems quite funny that they take offense to this by proceeding to take out anything new that was good in favor of showing the masses the "superior capabilities" of programmers nearing retirement, or just drop the series all together.
Maybe Nintendo got jealous that somebody else could do a better game and to teach everyone a lesson they decided to fuck up their games.
So you better not cross Nintendo because they have other "hostages".
 

KikBlava

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Enzbe said:
Beardy, bald, hopeless Nintendo Fanboy with glasses, wearing a Mario shirt? I see what you did there, Yahtzee and I like it.
Moviebob reference I think? Although he hates Nintendo now when footage of the new Paper Mario game made a reference to the watergate scandal and he mistook it as a gamergate reference. XD

But Yahtzee, don't you dare call Prime 2 shit. It had it's moments of greatness too, not as much as Prime 1 but still! I haven't played Prime 3 in forever but I remember that being not shit too. Prime Hunters however, multiplayer was fun, solo mode was pure crud.
 

MCerberus

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I have an idea that will save Metroid's legacy.
A sarcastic twitter account!

...
It's better than nothing...
 
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KikBlava said:
Enzbe said:
Beardy, bald, hopeless Nintendo Fanboy with glasses, wearing a Mario shirt? I see what you did there, Yahtzee and I like it.
Moviebob reference I think? Although he hates Nintendo now when footage of the new Paper Mario game made a reference to the watergate scandal and he mistook it as a gamergate reference. XD

But Yahtzee, don't you dare call Prime 2 shit. It had it's moments of greatness too, not as much as Prime 1 but still! I haven't played Prime 3 in forever but I remember that being not shit too. Prime Hunters however, multiplayer was fun, solo mode was pure crud.
KikBlava said:
Enzbe said:
Beardy, bald, hopeless Nintendo Fanboy with glasses, wearing a Mario shirt? I see what you did there, Yahtzee and I like it.
1) ...Wait, seriously? He fell for it too? *facepalm* Appending "-gate" to scandal names has been a thing since watergate! Ugh!

2) From what I understand (I'm JUST NOW getting to prime 2), The first game has the best atmosphere and lore/storytelling, the second one is the best challenge-wise and has the most creative combat, and the third is just all around decent, but not exceptional.

So far I think I prefer 1 for the isolation/immersion/lore factor, but 2's alright so far too (It's my best friend's favourite one, since he thrives on challenge)
 

darkrage6

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Transdude1996 said:
Bedinsis said:
Regarding games that do not contain the usual protagonist:

How was Half Life: Opposing Force and Blue Shift received?
Blue Shift was a console exclusive alternate story for the Dreamcast version of Half-Life, and that was cancelled a month from release. So, how do you think it was received?

Also, I'm not sure about everyone else, but I've just given up on Nintendo. Half-way through last year, it seems like the company has been very insistent about making sure their customers feel like their money is better spent elsewhere.
I've given up on Nintendo as well, the fact that the NX is only six months away and we still barely know anything about it is not a good sign.
 

darkrage6

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Transdude1996 said:
Bedinsis said:
Regarding games that do not contain the usual protagonist:

How was Half Life: Opposing Force and Blue Shift received?
Blue Shift was a console exclusive alternate story for the Dreamcast version of Half-Life, and that was cancelled a month from release. So, how do you think it was received?

Also, I'm not sure about everyone else, but I've just given up on Nintendo. Half-way through last year, it seems like the company has been very insistent about making sure their customers feel like their money is better spent elsewhere.
I've given up on Nintendo as well, the fact that the NX is only six months away and we still barely know anything about it is not a good sign.
aegix drakan said:
GrumbleGrump said:
officially declare Other M as in-universe Space Pirate propaganda.
I like this idea. XD

You know, I'm still shocked at the people who defended Other M. Seriously, it was preposterous how much context they ignored, and how much actual proof/visuals/text they glossed over when declaring that Other M did a good job with Samus. >_>
Other M looks like a fucking masterpiece next to FF.
 

-Dragmire-

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Thanatos2k said:
MrGoodSocks said:
Is it just me, or is he talking faster and sounding more... British?
Yeah, something is definitely off with the tone in his voice. Maybe he's sick.
Maybe he has jet lag from moving continents. Doesn't sound like something that would cause you to speak faster though.
 

Imp_Emissary

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aegix drakan said:
Imp Emissary said:
aegix drakan said:
And with Samus taking the piss out of her ship's AI, making fun of how shitty "Adam" was in Other M. like, I dunno, "Scans indicate some parts of this zone are exceedingly cold. Your Varia module is currently compromised. Be cautious" "At least this time you aren't forgetting to authorize me to use it, Adam. I mean, seriously." "Will you EVER let me live that down, Samus?" "Should I?".
Adam will never live that down.
Cause he's [email protected]#king dead! >xD

The one good thing about that terrible story.
Ummm....

Adam's mind was preserved as an AI template for military applications, and is actually the AI commanding officer on her ship for the duration of Metroid fusion.

Which actually makes Other M an even BIGGER kick in the nads (Fusion was made first, but Other M is a prequel). In Fusion, Samus tells us how Adam was the only person to call her lady and make it sound "dignified" instead of sarcastic and how "Any Objections, Lady?" was more a form of trust between them rather than actually asking for objections. Also, he was smart, taking Samus's reckless last-second plan, pointing out the flaw in it, and then going "Actually, there's a much safer way to do it, which ALSO ensures 100% success instead of just a partial one".

...And then Other M makes Samus have daddy issues with him, makes him calling her "lady" be almost a joke, makes the "Any objections, lady" into even more of a joke, has him and the rest of the squad treat her with kids gloves instead of the respect Fusion says she got, and makes Adam an idiot who waits until after Samus is THROUGH the fire area before going "ok, NOW activate Varia mode". ...Not to mention it turning Samus from a reckless one-woman-army into an emotional but barely emotive idiot who turns OFF her varia suit despite it not posing any threat to the station, and not ASKING for it to be authorized again when entering a hot area.

...Sorry about the blahblahblah. Fusion was my first game in the series, getting me into the rest of them, and seeing it get stomped on by Other M (which also nullified Prime 1, my favourite in the series) just really really irritated me. >_>
Dang Ageix. I didn't even know how bad it actually was. <-<

Thanks for the info.=w= b
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Well there goes my good mood for today. I've said this before: I don't trust anyone who bad mouths this game because that's all that people have done with this since it was announced and I'm under the impression that all negative reviews on it are just exist to tell people what they want to hear. Throw in the fact that Yahtzee has bad mouthed actual good games by Nintendo for petty and bullcrap reasons in the past and I'm inclined he did this just to pander to those same people regardless of what he says. Hell he likely did this as a self indulgent excuse to badmouth Nintendo. Even the comparison to Aliens Colonial Marines backs this up.

No Yahtzee, I don't believe any word that you say about this and I think you have no credibility when it comes to judging Nintendo. I'll judge it for myself when I get the chance.

What pisses me off the most is that people keep saying that Metroid Prime was declared non canon but, and I hate to use this childish argument but I think its justified here: Proof or it doesn't exist. For all I know you people just made that up.

Honestly, Metroid can just die. We have a market already oversaturated with space themed shooters, we don't need another one to exist. Especially when the only reason it exists is for Nintendo to have a space shooter franchise for all of the phlebs that only buy those kinds games in the first place. That's why it only sells in America. How about Nintendo just makes a brand new IP to cater to the older crowd that isn't a generic space shooter instead?
 

Xan Krieger

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So he compares them to people who play football when the game he is comparing the characters to is about soccer, alright Australia time for you to learn proper names.
 
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LordTerminal said:
No Yahtzee, I don't believe any word that you say about this and I think you have no credibility when it comes to judging Nintendo. I'll judge it for myself when I get the chance.
By all means, please do, and keep us posted! Yatzee HAS been wrong before and if he's wrong here, that'd be nice.


What pisses me off the most is that people keep saying that Metroid Prime was declared non canon but, and I hate to use this childish argument but I think its justified here: Proof or it doesn't exist. For all I know you people just made that up.
I unfortunately don't have the article. Sorry. :s

Apparently it's rooted in one main line from Other M contradicting Prime 3's entire plot, though.

Honestly, Metroid can just die. We have a market already oversaturated with space themed shooters, we don't need another one to exist. Especially when the only reason it exists is for Nintendo to have a space shooter franchise for all of the phlebs that only buy those kinds games in the first place. That's why it only sells in America. How about Nintendo just makes a brand new IP to cater to the older crowd that isn't a generic space shooter instead?
Except Metroid is:
a) Originally not a shooter, it was a sidescrolling action-adventure-exploration game, and even when the prime games turned it into an FPS type game it remained a mostly atmospheric exploration game, just with an FPS twist. Most people like the series for it's "Explore a large hostile environment, peeling back the layers as new powerups become available, letting us access new places" gameplay which is something not served by anything in the shooter genre. The closest 3D equivalent is Dark Souls. It's NOT a generic space shooter. Compare it to virtually every other space shooter and you'll see clear differences in the experience it offers.

b) Even in the shooter sense, it's the ORIGINAL space shooter. That's like telling them to give up on Mario because Banjo Kazooie and Sonic and Shovel Knight exist.

c) Wait, we're still oversaturated with space shooters? Really? I thought the craze died waaay down after Halo 3, and we've gone through the Modern Military Over-saturation and into the "Sandbox Survival (probably with zombies)" over-saturation phase!

Honestly, Metroid doesn't need to "die". If the Metroid 2 fan remake is any indication, the original sidescrolling formula is still fantastic and could use a revisit.
 

Canadamus Prime

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They could've just called it "Federation Force" without "Metroid" attached to it and it would've probably been much better received.
 

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LordTerminal said:
I've said this before: I don't trust anyone who bad mouths this game because that's all that people have done with this since it was announced and I'm under the impression that all negative reviews on it are just exist to tell people what they want to hear.
As opposed to them saying what you want to hear? Dude, the game is not good. Accept it, and move on. Sometimes there's bad games in the world, and most of the time anyone can see them coming even before they're released.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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aegix drakan said:
Honestly, Metroid doesn't need to "die". If the Metroid 2 fan remake is any indication, the original sidescrolling formula is still fantastic and could use a revisit.
Dude I've seen the light. Metroid causes more gamers to turn into being lifeless bitches that'll decry Nintendo for the stupidest reasons every day with each installment. When the gaming media is ready to grow up, then Nintendo can bring Metroid back but until then, it deserves to die.

And screw that fan remake. If you have the talent, time, skill and drive to remake a game that doesn't need remaking in the first place, you're better off spending it making a new IP. Especially when we have enough remakes these days as it is.

I'm sorry but I don't believe you either. Fusion was the last good Metroid game I played and frankly, I don't think the franchise has any staying power to remain relevant in this day and age.

As opposed to them saying what you want to hear? Dude, the game is not good. Accept it, and move on. Sometimes there's bad games in the world, and most of the time anyone can see them coming.
1) No not until I play it and decide for myself if it's really that bad. And 2) if that's true then where's the petition to get the new God of War cancelled for not being a "true" GoW game? Because nobody who can call themselves a fan of that franchise would ever logically applaud that game! And yet Sony gets cheers at E3 for effectively committing the same sin as Nintendo did with Metroid. Sorry got a little OT there but my point was most of the time, people are just ignorant.
 
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LordTerminal said:
*Snippety*
My my, someone's bitter about something. ;)

Perhaps you should check your cornflakes to see if someone pissed in them.

I guess I just can't relate to you at all. Then again, I'm one of those people who is still a fan of Sonic even after all the debacles and mediocre games that have come out, because there are still good games, and good reinventions of the formula to enjoy. That and...I mean, you wanna talk about immature gaming media, that series is poster boy for getting REAMED even when it's actually decent.

(PS, having played the original metroid 2 for the first time quite recently, the remake is miles better. A lot less fucking clunky and I don't have to run 2 miles away to resupply after each Omega fight makes it worth it on that alone.)
 

Atratzu

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"There is a single player mode, but it's a trap." bahahahaha

Sounds like a winner of a game, and by winner I mean winner of the "I'm never going to play this game" award.
 

Transdude1996

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aegix drakan said:
LordTerminal said:
Honestly, Metroid can just die. We have a market already oversaturated with space themed shooters, we don't need another one to exist. Especially when the only reason it exists is for Nintendo to have a space shooter franchise for all of the phlebs that only buy those kinds games in the first place. That's why it only sells in America. How about Nintendo just makes a brand new IP to cater to the older crowd that isn't a generic space shooter instead?
Except Metroid is:
a) Originally not a shooter, it was a sidescrolling action-adventure-exploration game, and even when the prime games turned it into an FPS type game it remained a mostly atmospheric exploration game, just with an FPS twist. Most people like the series for it's "Explore a large hostile environment, peeling back the layers as new powerups become available, letting us access new places" gameplay which is something not served by anything in the shooter genre. The closest 3D equivalent is Dark Souls. It's NOT a generic space shooter. Compare it to virtually every other space shooter and you'll see clear differences in the experience it offers.

b) Even in the shooter sense, it's the ORIGINAL space shooter. That's like telling them to give up on Mario because Banjo Kazooie and Sonic and Shovel Knight exist.

c) Wait, we're still oversaturated with space shooters? Really? I thought the craze died waaay down after Halo 3, and we've gone through the Modern Military Over-saturation and into the "Sandbox Survival (probably with zombies)" over-saturation phase!

Honestly, Metroid doesn't need to "die". If the Metroid 2 fan remake is any indication, the original sidescrolling formula is still fantastic and could use a revisit.
Ooh, that reminds of something I read a little while back. What happened was that back in the days of the GameCube, Nintendo's higher-ups had a meeting to discuss making a game that was a "Halo-killer". During the discussion, the heads of Nintendo's American division brought up Metroid Prime multiple times as being that game and emphasized that they should hype up Prime 2 to compete with Halo 2 (Both were released 5 days apart). Everyone else in the room dismissed this completely and they eventually settled on making Geist.

aegix drakan said:
LordTerminal said:
*Snippety*
My my, someone's bitter about something. ;)

Perhaps you should check your cornflakes to see if someone pissed in them.

I guess I just can't relate to you at all. Then again, I'm one of those people who is still a fan of Sonic even after all the debacles and mediocre games that have come out, because there are still good games, and good reinventions of the formula to enjoy. That and...I mean, you wanna talk about immature gaming media, that series is poster boy for getting REAMED even when it's actually decent.

(PS, having played the original metroid 2 for the first time quite recently, the remake is miles better. A lot less fucking clunky and I don't have to run 2 miles away to resupply after each Omega fight makes it worth it on that alone.)
Yay, another self-aware Sonic fan exists here. I'm not alone.
 

Saika Renegade

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Metroid is approaching that weird place where the series' actual official games end up ranging from bad to mediocre, but the additional material it inspires (whether official or fan-made) ends up as decent at the very least. Sonic's been doing this too.

I will admit to having a delayed, guilty laugh at the Korean take-out joke.
 

Erttheking

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LordTerminal said:
Please tell me more about how I'm a ***** for pointing out that the game looked like ass, resembled the second worst Metroid game to come out before then (Metroid Prime Hunters) that the gameplay looked shallow and that it spat in the face of everything that made Metroid great. I have to say, I haven't really been proven wrong in any of these fields. At best, the general reaction to this game is that it's average. And the story elements of it really piss me off.

Also, you do know that making a new IP is a lot harder than a remake for a game where you can borrow assets and gameplay from existing parts of the franchise? Also that was a game that badly needed remaking. Mainly because A. It honestly surprased the original Metroid 2 and B. People want good Metroid games, something Nintendo clearly doesn't care about.

Yeah well it does have staying power. People wouldn't be getting pissed at Nintendo if they didn't care about it.

Yeah, that little tangent doesn't prove anything. People thought the game looked bad. It was bad. Mediocre gameplay and laughable story. No ifs, ands or buts. And unlike Nintendo, what Sony showed off actually looked good.
 

Hawki

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Y'know, I will admit, I've never really been put off by Federation Force. Honestly, the idea has some appeal - the universe doesn't revolve around Samus Aran. I'm sure the Federation actually gets stuff done. It's like saying that Aliens (the setting) can only function with Ripley as the protagonist (using this example as Samus was apparently inspired by her). Now, that doesn't preclude it from being bad on its own rights, but a game that explores a different aspect of the universe in a different way? I could get behind that.

Anyway:

GrumbleGrump said:
Which is weird, considering that Super Metroid alone gives her a few traits before gameplay even starts.
Such as? It's true that she monologues, but that's about it. It's a summarization of previous events.

SeaCalMaster said:
But FF does appear to set up something, and considering it's a game set just before Metroid II, I think they have plans for Samus.
Is it? The gap between Zero Mission and Return of Samus has become this nebulous blob of ambiguous time, since all the Prime games have been squeezed together in there. It's one of the few places in the timeline that such a thing can be done, unless you go back before Zero Mission or post-Fusion. Apart from that, only the Other M-Fusion gap is available for interquels.

LordTerminal said:
Well there goes my good mood for today. I've said this before: I don't trust anyone who bad mouths this game because that's all that people have done with this since it was announced and I'm under the impression that all negative reviews on it are just exist to tell people what they want to hear. Throw in the fact that Yahtzee has bad mouthed actual good games by Nintendo for petty and bullcrap reasons in the past and I'm inclined he did this just to pander to those same people regardless of what he says. Hell he likely did this as a self indulgent excuse to badmouth Nintendo. Even the comparison to Aliens Colonial Marines backs this up.
Yahtzee badmouths pretty much any game. He has his obvious biases, but it's part of ZP's charm that he doesn't try to hide them (unlike, say, Movie Bob, who indulges in them).

LordTerminal said:
Honestly, Metroid can just die. We have a market already oversaturated with space themed shooters, we don't need another one to exist. Especially when the only reason it exists is for Nintendo to have a space shooter franchise for all of the phlebs that only buy those kinds games in the first place. That's why it only sells in America. How about Nintendo just makes a brand new IP to cater to the older crowd that isn't a generic space shooter instead?
Metroid's never really been a 'shooter' franchise though. The Prime games have operated from the first person perspective, but it's interwoven more with exploration. Same thing with the 2D Metroids - you're shooting, but exploring as well.

President Bagel said:
Metroid Fusion came out way back in 2002 and we still haven't had a direct sequel to it.
Do we need one? I mean, Fusion is my favorite game in the series, and I've dabbled around with post-Fusion oneshots, and while it does leave it open to continuation, honestly, I felt that it works better as a series finale. Space Pirates are gone, Zebes and SR-388 are gone, the X and Metroids are (supposedly) gone, Samus is at peace with herself, etc. It doesn't preclude continuation, but there's many series that went beyond what felt like their natural ending point, and felt the worse for it narratively. I've never been that enamored with Metroid as a series, but right now, it does feel like it's reached its end point, and is filling the gaps with installments prior to said ending point. I can live with that.

aegix drakan said:
Apparently it's rooted in one main line from Other M contradicting Prime 3's entire plot, though.
The line is that it's the first time Samus worked under a commander/left the Federation, which goes against Prime 3, as she takes orders from Admiral Dane.

That said, it's making a mountain out of a molehill. Does Prime 3 get invalidated because of a line, or is the line a gaff? This kind of thing happens in fiction, especially when creative control is shared/passed around.

aegix drakan said:
c) Wait, we're still oversaturated with space shooters? Really? I thought the craze died waaay down after Halo 3, and we've gone through the Modern Military Over-saturation and into the "Sandbox Survival (probably with zombies)" over-saturation phase!
You can never have enough space shooters! Never! Never I say!

Well, okay, would have preferred it if Halo ended at Reach, but hey, Metroid fans get to hate Other M, I get to hate Halo 4. We can all hate together! :)
 
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Transdude1996 said:
Ooh, that reminds of something I read a little while back. What happened was that back in the days of the GameCube, Nintendo's higher-ups had a meeting to discuss making a game that was a "Halo-killer". During the discussion, the heads of Nintendo's American division brought up Metroid Prime multiple times as being that game and emphasized that they should hype up Prime 2 to compete with Halo 2 (Both were released 5 days apart). Everyone else in the room dismissed this completely and they eventually settled on making Geist.
Call me crazy, but I'm actually glad that happened. Geist was a blast, and I cannot TELL you how many hours my friends and I dropped on the multiplayer together. It's a classic for my close circle of pals. XD

aegix drakan said:
Yay, another self-aware Sonic fan exists here. I'm not alone.
:eek: I'm not alone! There are other sane Sonic fans! PRAISE THE SUN! (/overdramatization)

Seriously, though, there are way too few of us. XD
 

Erttheking

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LordTerminal said:
......zing. Yeah, not really, very few games can deliver on the sheer quality of Metroid games, along with the exploration and silent worldbuilding Prime did. And you're dodging my point on how you called people bitches for pointing out that shit stinks and that Federation Force's story sucked.. But please, provide me some examples.

Oversimplification much? And insulting me, great. Why deconstruct my points when you can just do that instead?
 

Hawki

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aegix drakan said:
:eek: I'm not alone! There are other sane Sonic fans! PRAISE THE SUN! (/overdramatization)

Seriously, though, there are way too few of us. XD
https://www.fanfiction.net/game/Sonic-the-Hedgehog/

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_News_Network

https://www.sonicstadium.org/

DeviantArt in of itself (shudders)

The Sonic fanbase is hardly small. Maybe on this site, but, yeah. And I say that who hasn't played a Sonic game since Rush Adventure, but still follows the speedster to varying degrees.

erttheking said:
LordTerminal said:
very few games can deliver on the sheer quality of Metroid games,
You just went full fanboy. Never go full fanboy. Especially not in a series that has produced installments like Hunters. :(

And admittedly Metroid's never been a big franchise for me in terms of level of investment, but that's my own bias.
 

Erttheking

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Hawki said:
*Sigh* I would've thought that my previous post would've made my distaste for Hunters clear. I didn't think I would have to clarify it a second time. And I'm not sorry, I've not played many game series that impact me the way the Prime Trilogy has. So please. No fanboy labels.
 
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Hawki said:
The Sonic fanbase is hardly small. Maybe on this site, but, yeah. And I say that who hasn't played a Sonic game since Rush Adventure, but still follows the speedster to varying degrees.
ummm...Please note the keyword "sane" Sonic fans. XD Most of the ones I've met are either Obsessive Classic-ists, Adventure Fanboys, over the top Fanfic nutters, or some weird variant thereof. I mean, there ARE indeed plenty of exceptions but... XD
 

Transdude1996

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Hawki said:
aegix drakan said:
:eek: I'm not alone! There are other sane Sonic fans! PRAISE THE SUN! (/overdramatization)

Seriously, though, there are way too few of us. XD
https://www.fanfiction.net/game/Sonic-the-Hedgehog/

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_News_Network

https://www.sonicstadium.org/

DeviantArt in of itself (shudders)

The Sonic fanbase is hardly small. Maybe on this site, but, yeah. And I say that who hasn't played a Sonic game since Rush Adventure, but still follows the speedster to varying degrees.
*Clicks links*
*Sees Litter Mermaid Sonic Version and Shadow and the Snow Queen*

Yeah...we're the model of a perfect fanbase.

erttheking said:
LordTerminal said:
very few games can deliver on the sheer quality of Metroid games,
You just went full fanboy. Never go full fanboy. Especially not in a series that has produced installments like Hunters. :(

And admittedly Metroid's never been a big franchise for me in terms of level of investment, but that's my own bias.
That's because it really hasn't been that big. None of the games in Nintendo's Sci-Fi Trinity (Star Fox, F-Zero, Metroid) have really received much attention aside from their appearance in Smash Bros.. When you really square up the sales of each of the games and compare it to other Nintendo franchises, they're lower mid-level as far as attention received.
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

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Oh hey, the game I would have bought if it featured Samus missions or an overarching story coming out of a mission like usual. Prime Hunters wasn't great but I still liked it. If I'm not Samus, I'm pretty un-inspired to be in the Metroid universe for the most part... I mean, sure, if a good alternative character was around maybe but not a random Federation bloke doing his day job...
 

Hawki

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aegix drakan said:
Hawki said:
The Sonic fanbase is hardly small. Maybe on this site, but, yeah. And I say that who hasn't played a Sonic game since Rush Adventure, but still follows the speedster to varying degrees.
ummm...Please note the keyword "sane" Sonic fans. XD Most of the ones I've met are either Obsessive Classic-ists, Adventure Fanboys, over the top Fanfic nutters, or some weird variant thereof. I mean, there ARE indeed plenty of exceptions but... XD
Well, I guess that I'll call myself an Adventure fanboy, in as much that I think that the Adventure games are quite good overall (and Heroes), and that the 3D games only started going askew with Shadow. Also written plenty of Sonic fanfic, but I will say in my defence that I've never gone down the route of...well...y'know...

(Seriously, how did AmyxShadow become a 'thing?' And why the hell are people so uncreative with OCs that it's always another bloody hedgehog? Where's my reptile and amphibian OCs ya bastards?!)
erttheking said:
Hawki said:
*Sigh* I would've thought that my previous post would've made my distaste for Hunters clear. I didn't think I would have to clarify it a second time. And I'm not sorry, I've not played many game series that impact me the way the Prime Trilogy has. So please. No fanboy labels.
I know, which highlights the contradiction in your post. "The sheer quality of Metroid games." So either they all conform to this quality, or they don't, and therefore, "sheer quality" can't apply. Also, having played Metroid Prime, I can't back up the "shear quality" in the scope of personal experience, but that's beside the point.

Yes, this is nitpicking, but arguing that "X is good" without backing it up is argument by assertion.
 

Erttheking

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Hawki said:
Oh for the love of Christ, people make generalizations like this when they talk all the time. When people say "I like Fire Emblem" they don't instantly include tiny little things like "Except for this one game in the franchise that's kind of weak." And you didn't like a game that I did. uh. Ok?

I was stating my goddamn viewpoint on the series as contrary to someone who thought they should all go die. Someone who was derailing the argument in doing so by the way.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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slo said:
As far as I know, op4 eventually gave birth to Counter-Strike, so that's that.
Counter Strike, like Team Fortress, is a mod that originated in Quake. Counter Strike was actually ripped off from the original FireArms mod for Quake as well. FireArms and Counter Strike were two of the first FPS entries to have weapon reloading, which is something the original Half-Life adopted from those mods. So no, an expansion pack that came after Counter Strike's release as a Half-Life mod did not inspire the mod that predates the expansion pack.
 

chadachada123

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Oh boy. And Yahtzee didn't even get to the ending. It's really not much of a surprise, given Nintendo's recent track record of demolishing all we hold dear.

The final boss is Samus. Seriously.

 

rgrekejin

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darkrage6 said:
Yes thank you Yahtzee for shitting all over this terrible excuse for a Metroid game, another bad thing about this game is the graphics look horribly outdated, seriously they look like they could've been on the regular DS(Metroid Prime Hunters looked better)
Having recently replayed Metroid Prime: Hunters, please let me assure you that no, it really, really didn't.
 

Allan Foe

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inu-kun said:
Maybe after all the people being pissed off as how Samus was portrayed in Other M Nintendo just preferred to not show her so no one could complain about that...
Considering how out of touch they are with the established fanbases for their games, it's quite possible. And of course the end result of such a misguided attempt to make people forget about their misstep would be everybody mentioning Other M and Nintendo's mismanagement of the franchise whenever the topic of Metroid comes up.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Allan Foe said:
inu-kun said:
Maybe after all the people being pissed off as how Samus was portrayed in Other M Nintendo just preferred to not show her so no one could complain about that...
Considering how out of touch they are with the established fanbases for their games, it's quite possible. And of course the end result of such a misguided attempt to make people forget about their misstep would be everybody mentioning Other M and Nintendo's mismanagement of the franchise whenever the topic of Metroid comes up.
And this is another reason why Metroid needs to die. It's turning gamers into tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists because only such people would ever think that was the intention.
 

Erttheking

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LordTerminal said:
Allan Foe said:
inu-kun said:
Maybe after all the people being pissed off as how Samus was portrayed in Other M Nintendo just preferred to not show her so no one could complain about that...
Considering how out of touch they are with the established fanbases for their games, it's quite possible. And of course the end result of such a misguided attempt to make people forget about their misstep would be everybody mentioning Other M and Nintendo's mismanagement of the franchise whenever the topic of Metroid comes up.
And this is another reason why Metroid needs to die. It's turning gamers into tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists because only such people would ever think that was the intention.
Or maybe there's the much more simple explanation that Nintendo is fucking stupid. No tin-foil on my head, yet I still think sticker star was awful.
 

Transdude1996

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erttheking said:
LordTerminal said:
Allan Foe said:
inu-kun said:
Maybe after all the people being pissed off as how Samus was portrayed in Other M Nintendo just preferred to not show her so no one could complain about that...
Considering how out of touch they are with the established fanbases for their games, it's quite possible. And of course the end result of such a misguided attempt to make people forget about their misstep would be everybody mentioning Other M and Nintendo's mismanagement of the franchise whenever the topic of Metroid comes up.
And this is another reason why Metroid needs to die. It's turning gamers into tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists because only such people would ever think that was the intention.
Or maybe there's the much more simple explanation that Nintendo is fucking stupid. No tin-foil on my head, yet I still think sticker star was awful.
I'm not sure if Japanese companies are still this way a decade later, but...

It's not that their stupid. It's just that they're willingly ignorant about how the Western market works differently when compared to the Eastern market. This is misunderstanding resulted in the biggest mistake Sega ever made, which eventually caused them to drop out of the console race, and Nintendo only cheated death because of them introducing a new gaming demographic with the Wii.

Though, admittedly, Western companies are guilty of this to. Need to look no further than the Xbox as an example (Though, strangely enough, it is considered the "hardcore" console over there).
 

KoudelkaMorgan

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I was kind of curious if they would make this game into something interesting, and they could have easily done that. They could have essentially had you play as the Metroid Universe equivalent of Star Wars clonetrooper special forces squads going around the galaxy fighting space pirates and aggressive wildlife. You'd rescue survivors, protect colonies, do scouting missions, etc. Maybe it played like Xcom, or Valkyria Chronicals. Maybe it played like Resistance or Halo. Hell it could have been Metroid:Battlefront and let you play as literally every Metroid character or monster in the series as well as introduce new ones.

It could have been THE flagship FPS for people not into Splatoon on the Wii U and while not a traditional Metroid game it could have been really fun as long as the gamepad screen was used in a good way instead of like in the new Star Fox. Hell even the football mini game could have been an alternative to Rocket League on consoles.

Instead they made this, on the 3DS. While I can't say I've played it, I can see that the prevailing assessment is less than positive.

Personally I'm happy with the GOOD games we already have. My favorites are Zero Mission, Super, Prime 1, and Prime 2.

I like Fusion, but given that it kind of painted the narrative into what has become a dead end, and that it led to the abOMination that makes the good ones non-canon I think I can safely leave it out of the top tier.

The other games are all good, except Hunters which I don't remember much of but do remember it having terrible controls and graphics.

These days games like Song of the Deep, Oceanhorn, Xeodrifter, Steamworld Dig, Fairune, and Axiom Verge take the place of equivalent Nintendo franchise installments as I think the last game of theirs I got was a Link Between Worlds and before that it was probably Other M.
 

Allan Foe

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LordTerminal said:
Allan Foe said:
inu-kun said:
Maybe after all the people being pissed off as how Samus was portrayed in Other M Nintendo just preferred to not show her so no one could complain about that...
Considering how out of touch they are with the established fanbases for their games, it's quite possible. And of course the end result of such a misguided attempt to make people forget about their misstep would be everybody mentioning Other M and Nintendo's mismanagement of the franchise whenever the topic of Metroid comes up.
And this is another reason why Metroid needs to die. It's turning gamers into tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists because only such people would ever think that was the intention.
Pardon me, I should have used the universal caveat of "allegedly" before making that suggestion. The word "Metroid" allegedly does not exert some sort of magical conspiracy field that makes people go on wild guessing sprees, it's just what allegedly happens when there's a vacuum of information from the official source.

But if you are absolutely convinced that "Metroid" is allegedly to blame for all discontent in the gaming community and all of the annoyance ever expressed towards Nintendo in particular, I am afraid there's no hope for us, when it comes to the prospects of being rid of this vile menace! The foolish masses continue to perpetuate the term metroidvainia, the foolisher fans continue to make modifications of the originals and the foolishest indie developers never cease to make Metroid-likes! The World and consequently Nintendo are doomed because we couldn't do the right thing [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKxr2PJ06Y4]. I weep for us.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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Heh! Metroid does rocket league. That's hilarious. Though rocket league itself now has F2P mechanics added with lockboxes and fucking keys of all things. How long after release is this shit allowed to go unnoticed? "Oh look, the game awarded me a chest! Now let's see what's inside...wait...I can't open it? I need to pay money for the keys?? You absolute fucking fucks!!"
 

Valkrex

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chadachada123 said:
Oh boy. And Yahtzee didn't even get to the ending. It's really not much of a surprise, given Nintendo's recent track record of demolishing all we hold dear.

The final boss is Samus. Seriously.

Oh my fucking god... just when I thought Nintendo could sink no lower. This is some SERIOUS bullshit. Thanks Nintendo for taking a massive dump all over one of my favorite franchises and characters.
 

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Transdude1996 said:
I'm not sure if Japanese companies are still this way a decade later, but...

It's not that they're stupid. It's just that they're willingly ignorant about how the Western market works differently when compared to the Eastern market. This misunderstanding resulted in the biggest mistake Sega ever made, which eventually caused them to drop out of the console race, and Nintendo only cheated death because of them introducing a new gaming demographic with the Wii.

Though, admittedly, Western companies are guilty of this to. Need to look no further than the Xbox as an example (Though, strangely enough, it is considered the "hardcore" console over there).
What mistake of Sega's would that be? The rushed launch of the Saturn or the well regarded Dreamcast that nobody bought?

I'm curious what you're getting at, and how it regards to a difference in culture between Japan and the Western world.
 

Sheo_Dagana

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I dunno, Yahtzee. Even the Nintendrones have been pretty annoyed at this title existence, and the only thing that will come of the bad reviews are feelings of vindication. Its pretty much the one time Yahtzee gets to review a Nintendo game and not get called out as someone that just hates the company. Seems like only one, maybe two people have brought up that "grudge" so far in this thread. I am skeptical, however, that anything will come of it, because while a lot of people are annoyed with this game, plenty of people are still piling aboard the Breath of the Wild hype-train.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Allan Foe said:
LordTerminal said:
Allan Foe said:
inu-kun said:
Maybe after all the people being pissed off as how Samus was portrayed in Other M Nintendo just preferred to not show her so no one could complain about that...
Considering how out of touch they are with the established fanbases for their games, it's quite possible. And of course the end result of such a misguided attempt to make people forget about their misstep would be everybody mentioning Other M and Nintendo's mismanagement of the franchise whenever the topic of Metroid comes up.
And this is another reason why Metroid needs to die. It's turning gamers into tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists because only such people would ever think that was the intention.
Pardon me, I should have used the universal caveat of "allegedly" before making that suggestion. The word "Metroid" allegedly does not exert some sort of magical conspiracy field that makes people go on wild guessing sprees, it's just what allegedly happens when there's a vacuum of information from the official source.

But if you are absolutely convinced that "Metroid" is allegedly to blame for all discontent in the gaming community and all of the annoyance ever expressed towards Nintendo in particular, I am afraid there's no hope for us, when it comes to the prospects of being rid of this vile menace! The foolish masses continue to perpetuate the term metroidvainia, the foolisher fans continue to make modifications of the originals and the foolishest indie developers never cease to make Metroid-likes! The World and consequently Nintendo are doomed because we couldn't do the right thing [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKxr2PJ06Y4]. I weep for us.
Your BS sarcasm is not convincing me. If anything, you just proved that several companies have taken Metroid's formula and done it better than Metroid itself. What does Metroid still have to offer after all of that?

Oh my fucking god... just when I thought Nintendo could sink no lower. This is some SERIOUS bullshit. Thanks Nintendo for taking a massive dump all over one of my favorite franchises and characters.
And thank you for reminding me why I want this franchise to die. Because it makes the video game community that much more toxic of a place to be in.
 

Thanatos2k

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LordTerminal said:
Your BS sarcasm is not convincing me. If anything, you just proved that several companies have taken Metroid's formula and done it better than Metroid itself. What does Metroid still have to offer after all of that?
I dunno, the METROID FORMULA? It's almost like lots of people are making Metroidvania games because the people that SHOULD be making them (Nintendo, Konami) refuse to do so for some reason. And despite their best efforts, even the best knockoffs haven't reached the peaks of Super Metroid. Not Shadow Complex, not Dust: An Elysian Tail, not Axiom Verge, not Ori and the Blind Forest, not Aquaria, and not Valdis Story.

People clearly want to play these kind of games, and Nintendo are buffoons for not knowing what their customers want. They've been on a roll with it really. They blew it with Metroid, they blew it with Star Fox, they blew it with Paper Mario, and they're about to blow it with Paper Mario again.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Thanatos2k said:
And despite their best efforts, even the best knockoffs haven't reached the peaks of Super Metroid. Not Shadow Complex, not Dust: An Elysian Tail, not Axiom Verge, not Ori and the Blind Forest, not Aquaria, and not Valdis Story.
Okay that's clear nostalgia blindness if I saw it. Super Metroid was good but it wasn't this magical wonder game that everyone keeps praising it for being.
 

Thanatos2k

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LordTerminal said:
Thanatos2k said:
And despite their best efforts, even the best knockoffs haven't reached the peaks of Super Metroid. Not Shadow Complex, not Dust: An Elysian Tail, not Axiom Verge, not Ori and the Blind Forest, not Aquaria, and not Valdis Story.
Okay that's clear nostalgia blindness if I saw it. Super Metroid was good but it wasn't this magical wonder game that everyone keeps praising it for being.
And you're one of those "all old games must be worse" people, clearly. Super Metroid absolutely holds up.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Thanatos2k said:
And you're one of those "all old games must be worse" people, clearly. Super Metroid absolutely holds up.
Why? Because I'm not afraid to not hail it as the second coming of Christ like everyone else?
 

Transdude1996

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Bedinsis said:
Transdude1996 said:
I'm not sure if Japanese companies are still this way a decade later, but...

It's not that they're stupid. It's just that they're willingly ignorant about how the Western market works differently when compared to the Eastern market. This misunderstanding resulted in the biggest mistake Sega ever made, which eventually caused them to drop out of the console race, and Nintendo only cheated death because of them introducing a new gaming demographic with the Wii.

Though, admittedly, Western companies are guilty of this to. Need to look no further than the Xbox as an example (Though, strangely enough, it is considered the "hardcore" console over there).
What mistake of Sega's would that be? The rushed launch of the Saturn or the well regarded Dreamcast that nobody bought?

I'm curious what you're getting at, and how it regards to a difference in culture between Japan and the Western world.
It was the Saturn.

To keep the story as brief as possible, Sega of America was looked at as the poster child of the company after the Genesis' success in the West. Sega of Japan took resentment of this (Because the Genesis was a failure in Japan) and proceeded to ignore any talk coming from SoA. This began with the development of the Saturn all the way up to the last minute release of the console (Which SoA did everything they could to protest, but you can't do much 10 minutes 'till curtain).

As anyone could tell you, the Saturn bombed in America, but soared in Japan. By the time Dreamcast development began, and the company realized how much money they actually lost, SoJ did listen and talk with SoA, and they made the perfect console, until the PS2 was released.
 

Nazulu

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LordTerminal said:
Thanatos2k said:
And you're one of those "all old games must be worse" people, clearly. Super Metroid absolutely holds up.
Why? Because I'm not afraid to not hail it as the second coming of Christ like everyone else?
It's a completely different thing to call others ignorant just because you disagree. Very arrogant behaviour. It's not like you have provided any strong evidence of anything in particular, and we already know you won't be able to so I would get off that high horse very quickly if I was you.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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"First the sequels (to Metroid Prime) were kinda shit (refers to Metroid Prime 2 as an example)"

DAMN IT YATZHEE!!!

Metroid Prime 2 is the strongest and only good one of the Prime Sequals!!!

You should have used Prime 3 or Hunters. Don't bring down Prime 2 as shit.
 

Hawki

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Samtemdo8 said:
"First the sequals (to Metroid Prime) were kinda shit (refers to Metroid Prime 2 as an example)"

DAMN IT YATZHEE!!!

Metroid Prime 2 is the strongest and only good one of the Prime Sequals!!!

You should have used Prime 3 or Hunters. Don't bring down Prime 2 as shit.
It's "sequel," not "sequal!"

I CAN USE EXCLAMATION MARKS TOOO!!!

(But seriously, I'm all for ragging on Hunters, so I can let it go this time. ;p)
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Hawki said:
Samtemdo8 said:
"First the sequals (to Metroid Prime) were kinda shit (refers to Metroid Prime 2 as an example)"

DAMN IT YATZHEE!!!

Metroid Prime 2 is the strongest and only good one of the Prime Sequals!!!

You should have used Prime 3 or Hunters. Don't bring down Prime 2 as shit.
It's "sequel," not "sequal!"

I CAN USE EXCLAMATION MARKS TOOO!!!

(But seriously, I'm all for ragging on Hunters, so I can let it go this time. ;p)
The only good thing I can say about Hunters, is that I like the designs of the other Hunters:


And I hope that possible Metroid game that Federation Force's ending implies that a new Metroid Prime game was being made with Sylux as the villain comes true.
 

rgrekejin

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Samtemdo8 said:
"First the sequels (to Metroid Prime) were kinda shit (refers to Metroid Prime 2 as an example)"

DAMN IT YATZHEE!!!

Metroid Prime 2 is the strongest and only good one of the Prime Sequals!!!

You should have used Prime 3 or Hunters. Don't bring down Prime 2 as shit.
Eh, I dunno, I kind of have to agree with his assessment. I loved Metroid Prime to death, but I couldn't even make myself finish Metroid Prime 2. Hunters was actually pretty good, once you got past the absolutely terrible control scheme. Seriously, what was it with Nintendo and making DS titles that you need three hands to play? Starfox Command was a pretty good game (and one of the few Starfox games with an actual unique story) crippled by similarly poor controls.
 

Allan Foe

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LordTerminal said:
Allan Foe said:
Pardon me, I should have used the universal caveat of "allegedly" before making that suggestion. The word "Metroid" allegedly does not exert some sort of magical conspiracy field that makes people go on wild guessing sprees, it's just what allegedly happens when there's a vacuum of information from the official source.

But if you are absolutely convinced that "Metroid" is allegedly to blame for all discontent in the gaming community and all of the annoyance ever expressed towards Nintendo in particular, I am afraid there's no hope for us, when it comes to the prospects of being rid of this vile menace! The foolish masses continue to perpetuate the term metroidvainia, the foolisher fans continue to make modifications of the originals and the foolishest indie developers never cease to make Metroid-likes! The World and consequently Nintendo are doomed because we couldn't do the right thing [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKxr2PJ06Y4]. I weep for us.
Your BS sarcasm is not convincing me. If anything, you just proved that several companies have taken Metroid's formula and done it better than Metroid itself. What does Metroid still have to offer after all of that?
Ow, that hurt! I thought that was quality sarcasm :( But let's not get carried away, I don't seek to start a flame war and I respect your opinion in regards to Metroid, as it is presented by Nintendo, being old boot. But I've not made an overt suggestion that other developers have superseded Metroid in my previous comment, my own opinion is that the original and its inspirations may co-exist in harmony. For example, some of the indie stuff like the excellent Metroid 2 remake, while not made by Nintendo themselves, borrows heavily from the last 2D Metroid games and is all the better for it. And from the look of the recently announced Zelda it seems that Nintendo does check out various modern videogame trends (survival games, for example), and if they took making another Metroid seriously we could expect their own update to the formula. Additionally, I am not sure if any other developers tried toying with Prime's mechanics -- that is still an open avenue for exploration.

All that said, if you'd like to mention games or series that in your opinion make Metroid obsolete I'd gladly give them a go (where technically possible), or at least seek out playtrhough videos. For example, recent games with heavy Metroid inspiration that I myself played are Environmental Station Alpha (very much a "Metroid by any other name") and Ghost 1.0 (much Metroid-*vanier* than the last one, but still feels relevant to the formula). And while I've not played it yet, but seen it played, Axiom Verge ("H.R. Giger's Metroid") looks pretty fun. The listed titles are great entertainment, but I don't think any of them made me feel "Time to bury Metroid and dance on its grave!"
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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rgrekejin said:
Samtemdo8 said:
"First the sequels (to Metroid Prime) were kinda shit (refers to Metroid Prime 2 as an example)"

DAMN IT YATZHEE!!!

Metroid Prime 2 is the strongest and only good one of the Prime Sequals!!!

You should have used Prime 3 or Hunters. Don't bring down Prime 2 as shit.
Eh, I dunno, I kind of have to agree with his assessment. I loved Metroid Prime to death, but I couldn't even make myself finish Metroid Prime 2. Hunters was actually pretty good, once you got past the absolutely terrible control scheme. Seriously, what was it with Nintendo and making DS titles that you need three hands to play? Starfox Command was a pretty good game (and one of the few Starfox games with an actual unique story) crippled by similarly poor controls.
The thing about Prime 2 is that its Hard, as in almost Ninja Gaiden level hard.

The game was clearly made for people that are veterans of Prime 1 and other Metroid games. But that does not mean that overall gameplay is bad.

Its the first Metroid Game that uses unique world designs. I mean Torvus Bog and Sanctuary Fortress are huge examples. And the world is arguably the largest of the 3D games.

The enemy designs and especially the bosses are also increadibly, even better than Prime 1 at times.

And I like the improved features like the upgraded Scanning and especially Logbook where it has model viewers so you can see the monters and items you have scanned.


All in all I just find Prime 2 the only good one of the Prime Sequels because it clearly tried to expand on the gameplay of Prime 1.

Again the only crippling flaw is its difficulty because it was clearly made for the players that have played Prime 1 or long time Metroid players in general.

Heck I can rank them from difficulty:


Metroid: Zero Mission - Easiest Game ever

Metroid: Fusion: a bit more challeging with it getting alot harder at the end.

Prime 3: The easiest of the Prime games thanks to Hyper Mode.

AM2R: despite it being hard at times, after playing Fusion and Zero Mission the game can be a breeze.

Prime 1: The most balanced of the whole franchise.

Super Metroid: I find this game a bit difficult still, especially the Ridly fight and its mostly due to the controls not being as smooth as Zero Mission and AM2R.

Prime 2: The hardest and most challegeing especially trying to get 100% completion, Only for Metroid Veterans.

Original Metroid 1 and 2: Dated Bullshit that can make you cry.
 

Hutzpah Chicken

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I didn't realize the Prime series was considered, "Non-Canon." Why is it that Nintendo is being deliberately as stupid as Sega was in 2004 and still has a fan base on the internet? I imagine they'll move to pachinko like SNK and Konami and still be loved by the nostalgic blinded fans.
 

Transdude1996

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Hutzpah Chicken said:
I didn't realize the Prime series was considered, "Non-Canon." Why is it that Nintendo is being deliberately as stupid as Sega was in 2004 and still has a fan base on the internet? I imagine they'll move to pachinko like SNK and Konami and still be loved by the nostalgic blinded fans.
The thing with Sega and SNK is that both companies were bought out because they had racked up a huge amount of debt. However, it's nice to see both of them bouncing back into gaming after those weird years. In fact, SNK actually closed their pachislot division. [http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2015/11/02-1/snk-playmore-withdraws-from-pachislot-market]

As for Konami and Nintendo, they have no excuse.
 
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*scratches head at the GameXplain video*

...Leaving aside the narrative aspect, that final boss just does not look like much fun.

On the plus side, seeing GameXplain again reminds me that maybe I should play Codename Steam again. I'm not done playing all the missions again on Hard, after all.

Samtemdo8 said:
Heck I can rank them from difficulty:
I disagree that AM2R is harder than Fusion. AM2R had some hard bits here and there, but Fusion...The Nightmare and Space-jump Spider still haunt me. I tried playing Fusion again a few years ago, and the Nightmare is just plain nuts. Am2R didn't have a boss anywhere NEAR that nasty.

rgrekejin said:
Starfox Command was a pretty good game (and one of the few Starfox games with an actual unique story) crippled by similarly poor controls.
Ugh. It was fun for a while, but honestly that game was crippled by three major things.

1) The gameplay is fun at first, but after a while it gets really stale as every mission starts to blend together. Not to mention you have to replay the opening bits every time you want a different story path.

2) Half the pilots aren't fun, especially anyone in a Cornerian Fighter, which you're guaranteed to see reasonably often, because Krystal. -_- Seriously. Low durability, meh engines, twin lasers and no lock on? There's mediocre and then there's just plain trash, and that ship is the latter.

3) The canon story route is completely awful. Like, some of the branches are fun ("Star Wolf handles everything!" "Slippy fucks off to save his world with his girlfriend!" "Falco misses out on everything!"), but the canon path you have to play through to GET those branches is just terrible. x_X

The whole plot is just Fox refusing to deal with his relationship issues he caused by acting stupid and out of character, then finally resolving those issues, then the resolution being undone in the epilogue for what felt like no reason whatsoever.
 

Rangaman

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Given what has been going with Japanese game publishers lately, I've come to the conclusion that there is a current epidemic of the retard virus in Japan.
 

ExileNZ

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So basically it's Nintendo's failed attempt at emulating Halo ODST, only forgetting about anything that made ODST good.
 

Hawki

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ExileNZ said:
So basically it's Nintendo's failed attempt at emulating Halo ODST, only forgetting about anything that made ODST good.
Considering that ODST was a lacklustre Halo game that focused on a squad of marines rather than its power-armoured protagonist, and considering the reception that Federation Force seems to have followed in its footsteps, I think they've replicated it quite well.

Piorn said:
Hey, I liked Metroid Prime 2!
Also, no jab at AM2R?
Given Yahtzee's personal preferences, AM2R is probably a game he enjoys.

rgrekejin said:
Starfox Command was a pretty good game (and one of the few Starfox games with an actual unique story) crippled by similarly poor controls.
Wait, what?

How was Star Fox's story unique? Maybe in its manner of delivery for its branching storylines, but it was stymied by repetitive missions, and an overall story that boils down to "the anglars (oh, don't you know they've been on Venom all this time) invade Lylat because...reasons." The one thing Command gave us was that it set up some potentially interesting plotlines (Marcus and Dash doing their own thing), but ones that Zero squandered by rebooting the series for a second time.
 

GUIGUI

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The Prime series IS canon. Sakamoto supervised the three prime games and even said it was canon himself. This rumor is just the result of an bad translation.
 

darkrage6

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rgrekejin said:
darkrage6 said:
Yes thank you Yahtzee for shitting all over this terrible excuse for a Metroid game, another bad thing about this game is the graphics look horribly outdated, seriously they look like they could've been on the regular DS(Metroid Prime Hunters looked better)
Having recently replayed Metroid Prime: Hunters, please let me assure you that no, it really, really didn't.
Maybe that's cause I had the 3-D turned all the way up, all I know is FF locked really pixely and blocky when I played it.
 

Thanatos2k

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LordTerminal said:
Thanatos2k said:
And you're one of those "all old games must be worse" people, clearly. Super Metroid absolutely holds up.
Why? Because I'm not afraid to not hail it as the second coming of Christ like everyone else?
Because the game is great, and people have confirmed this for decades. The reason the word Metroid is in the genre called Metroidvania is because of Super Metroid, a game so good it defined a genre. At some point, you just have to chalk it up as some people have bad taste.
 

Hawki

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Thanatos2k said:
Because the game is great, and people have confirmed this for decades. The reason the word Metroid is in the genre called Metroidvania is because of Super Metroid, a game so good it defined a genre. At some point, you just have to chalk it up as some people have bad taste.
Because as we all know, likes and dislikes are completely objective.

And I say that as someone who likes Super Metroid, even if I'm not as enamored with it as many others.
 

4Aces

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People still own IoS's proves that Memberberries are real (and can take any form). Sort of the pre-alpha for a shoggoth.
 

Thanatos2k

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Hawki said:
Thanatos2k said:
Because the game is great, and people have confirmed this for decades. The reason the word Metroid is in the genre called Metroidvania is because of Super Metroid, a game so good it defined a genre. At some point, you just have to chalk it up as some people have bad taste.
Because as we all know, likes and dislikes are completely objective.

And I say that as someone who likes Super Metroid, even if I'm not as enamored with it as many others.
If someone says they like Metroidvania games, and yet dislikes Super Metroid, a game that personified the elements that make up the genre they claim to like, it simply does not compute, objectively.

It is one of the two best Metroidvania games. We know what the other one is.
 

Hawki

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Thanatos2k said:
If someone says they like Metroidvania games, and yet dislikes Super Metroid, a game that personified the elements that make up the genre they claim to like, it simply does not compute, objectively.
Wait, what?

Okay, let me give you a personal example. I like RTS games. That said, I really don't like Warcraft I, which, alongside Tiberian Dawn, did help establish a lot of the genre's conventions (and Dune, but that's more a 'proto-RTS'). I can recognise its influence, but I think it's aged terribly. By your own logic, by virtue of liking the RTS genre, I'm obliged to like a game that helped kickstart said genre.

So it's one thing to acknowledge that Super Metroid helped establish the "Metroidvania" genre alongside Symphony of the Night. That's a historical fact. Being obliged to like it however? Eh, not so much. It's also one step away from claiming that just because I like a series, I'm obliged to enjoy the first installment of that series. And I'll ask you, how many series are there where the first installment is considered the strongest? From experience, they're in a minority.
 

Piorn

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Hawki said:
Piorn said:
Hey, I liked Metroid Prime 2!
Also, no jab at AM2R?
Given Yahtzee's personal preferences, AM2R is probably a game he enjoys.
Nah, I meant "jab" as in "oh shame there aren't any proper Metroid games with Samus as the lead being made with care and love for detail anymore, how unfortunate!", you know, something sarcastic.
 

Thanatos2k

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Hawki said:
Thanatos2k said:
If someone says they like Metroidvania games, and yet dislikes Super Metroid, a game that personified the elements that make up the genre they claim to like, it simply does not compute, objectively.
Wait, what?

Okay, let me give you a personal example. I like RTS games. That said, I really don't like Warcraft I, which, alongside Tiberian Dawn, did help establish a lot of the genre's conventions (and Dune, but that's more a 'proto-RTS'). I can recognise its influence, but I think it's aged terribly. By your own logic, by virtue of liking the RTS genre, I'm obliged to like a game that helped kickstart said genre.

So it's one thing to acknowledge that Super Metroid helped establish the "Metroidvania" genre alongside Symphony of the Night. That's a historical fact. Being obliged to like it however? Eh, not so much. It's also one step away from claiming that just because I like a series, I'm obliged to enjoy the first installment of that series. And I'll ask you, how many series are there where the first installment is considered the strongest? From experience, they're in a minority.
But Super Metroid wasn't the first game in the series - that was Metroid 1. It was however, the best in the series. So if you don't like the BEST in the series that defined a genre, I'm going to say you got problems. Saying Warcraft 1 is not really playable now is fair (mostly for technological reasons), but suggesting you don't like Starcraft or Warcraft 3 while professing to like RTS games would be off. As I said before, they never made a better Metroid game than Super Metroid, and given it's certainly playable in the same state as it always was there's no legitimate reason to suggest it's not a great game.
 

Transdude1996

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Thanatos2k said:
Hawki said:
Thanatos2k said:
If someone says they like Metroidvania games, and yet dislikes Super Metroid, a game that personified the elements that make up the genre they claim to like, it simply does not compute, objectively.
Wait, what?

Okay, let me give you a personal example. I like RTS games. That said, I really don't like Warcraft I, which, alongside Tiberian Dawn, did help establish a lot of the genre's conventions (and Dune, but that's more a 'proto-RTS'). I can recognise its influence, but I think it's aged terribly. By your own logic, by virtue of liking the RTS genre, I'm obliged to like a game that helped kickstart said genre.

So it's one thing to acknowledge that Super Metroid helped establish the "Metroidvania" genre alongside Symphony of the Night. That's a historical fact. Being obliged to like it however? Eh, not so much. It's also one step away from claiming that just becNausica?ike a series, I'm obliged to enjoy the first installment of that series. And I'll ask you, how many series are there where the first installment is considered the strongest? From experience, they're in a minority.
But Super Metroid wasn't the first game in the series - that was Metroid 1. It was however, the best in the series. So if you don't like the BEST in the series that defined a genre, I'm going to say you got problems. Saying Warcraft 1 is not really playable now is fair (mostly for technological reasons), but suggesting you don't like Starcraft or Warcraft 3 while professing to like RTS games would be off. As I said before, they never made a better Metroid game than Super Metroid, and given it's certainly playable in the same state as it always was there's no legitimate reason to suggest it's not a great game.
Since we're on the discussion of "Hating good media", could I bring up that I consider Studio Ghibli to be the most overrated anime company that I know of. Aside from Nausica? (The site needs to update their accepted characters list, the same thing happens when you spell Pok?mon properly) and Castle In the Sky, I really haven't caried for anything else of theirs I've seen.
 

Hawki

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Thanatos2k said:
But Super Metroid wasn't the first game in the series - that was Metroid 1. It was however, the best in the series. So if you don't like the BEST in the series that defined a genre, I'm going to say you got problems. Saying Warcraft 1 is not really playable now is fair (mostly for technological reasons), but suggesting you don't like Starcraft or Warcraft 3 while professing to like RTS games would be off. As I said before, they never made a better Metroid game than Super Metroid, and given it's certainly playable in the same state as it always was there's no legitimate reason to suggest it's not a great game.
Declaring something to be "the best" is down to personal opinion, regardless of the genre. Also, even the StarCraft and Warcraft III analogy is flawed, because they're just one style of RTS, that play very differently from something like Civilization, Dawn of War, Supreme Commander, or Homeworld, to name a few. Now I actually quite like those examples, even if the best RTS IMO is StarCraft II, but that's another issue.

Or maybe it isn't, because it brings us back to Super Metroid. Do I think it's a good game? Yes. Do I think it's influential on the genre? Yes, and that's about the only 'fact' one can throw around. Do I think it's the best Metroid game? No - personally I consider Zero Mission and Fusion to be superior, though the former is practically interchangeable in terms of me ranking them. Even if you go the route of acclaim via consensus, declaring it to be the best is debatable since Metroid Prime seems to be in close contention.

So, no, the only 'fact' one can throw around is that Super Metroid is influential for the genre. Well, that and most people consider it to be the best (Metroid Prime aside) installment in the series, but ascribing a judgement of quality as 'fact' isn't going to fly anywhere.