Zero Punctuation: Metroid Prime Federation Force

[Hawki]

Because the game is great, and people have confirmed this for decades. The reason the word Metroid is in the genre called Metroidvania is because of Super Metroid, a game so good it defined a genre. At some point, you just have to chalk it up as some people have bad taste.

Because as we all know, likes and dislikes are completely objective.

And I say that as someone who likes Super Metroid, even if I'm not as enamored with it as many others.

 

[4Aces]

People still own IoS's proves that Memberberries are real (and can take any form). Sort of the pre-alpha for a shoggoth.

 

[Thanatos2k]

Because the game is great, and people have confirmed this for decades. The reason the word Metroid is in the genre called Metroidvania is because of Super Metroid, a game so good it defined a genre. At some point, you just have to chalk it up as some people have bad taste.

Because as we all know, likes and dislikes are completely objective.

And I say that as someone who likes Super Metroid, even if I'm not as enamored with it as many others.

If someone says they like Metroidvania games, and yet dislikes Super Metroid, a game that personified the elements that make up the genre they claim to like, it simply does not compute, objectively.

It is one of the two best Metroidvania games. We know what the other one is.

 

[Hawki]

If someone says they like Metroidvania games, and yet dislikes Super Metroid, a game that personified the elements that make up the genre they claim to like, it simply does not compute, objectively.

Wait, what?

Okay, let me give you a personal example. I like RTS games. That said, I really don't like Warcraft I, which, alongside Tiberian Dawn, did help establish a lot of the genre's conventions (and Dune, but that's more a 'proto-RTS'). I can recognise its influence, but I think it's aged terribly. By your own logic, by virtue of liking the RTS genre, I'm obliged to like a game that helped kickstart said genre.

So it's one thing to acknowledge that Super Metroid helped establish the "Metroidvania" genre alongside Symphony of the Night. That's a historical fact. Being obliged to like it however? Eh, not so much. It's also one step away from claiming that just because I like a series, I'm obliged to enjoy the first installment of that series. And I'll ask you, how many series are there where the first installment is considered the strongest? From experience, they're in a minority.

 

[Piorn]

Hey, I liked Metroid Prime 2!
Also, no jab at AM2R?

Given Yahtzee's personal preferences, AM2R is probably a game he enjoys.

Nah, I meant "jab" as in "oh shame there aren't any proper Metroid games with Samus as the lead being made with care and love for detail anymore, how unfortunate!", you know, something sarcastic.

 

[Thanatos2k]

If someone says they like Metroidvania games, and yet dislikes Super Metroid, a game that personified the elements that make up the genre they claim to like, it simply does not compute, objectively.

Wait, what?

Okay, let me give you a personal example. I like RTS games. That said, I really don't like Warcraft I, which, alongside Tiberian Dawn, did help establish a lot of the genre's conventions (and Dune, but that's more a 'proto-RTS'). I can recognise its influence, but I think it's aged terribly. By your own logic, by virtue of liking the RTS genre, I'm obliged to like a game that helped kickstart said genre.

So it's one thing to acknowledge that Super Metroid helped establish the "Metroidvania" genre alongside Symphony of the Night. That's a historical fact. Being obliged to like it however? Eh, not so much. It's also one step away from claiming that just because I like a series, I'm obliged to enjoy the first installment of that series. And I'll ask you, how many series are there where the first installment is considered the strongest? From experience, they're in a minority.

But Super Metroid wasn't the first game in the series - that was Metroid 1. It was however, the best in the series. So if you don't like the BEST in the series that defined a genre, I'm going to say you got problems. Saying Warcraft 1 is not really playable now is fair (mostly for technological reasons), but suggesting you don't like Starcraft or Warcraft 3 while professing to like RTS games would be off. As I said before, they never made a better Metroid game than Super Metroid, and given it's certainly playable in the same state as it always was there's no legitimate reason to suggest it's not a great game.

 

[Transdude1996]

If someone says they like Metroidvania games, and yet dislikes Super Metroid, a game that personified the elements that make up the genre they claim to like, it simply does not compute, objectively.

Wait, what?

Okay, let me give you a personal example. I like RTS games. That said, I really don't like Warcraft I, which, alongside Tiberian Dawn, did help establish a lot of the genre's conventions (and Dune, but that's more a 'proto-RTS'). I can recognise its influence, but I think it's aged terribly. By your own logic, by virtue of liking the RTS genre, I'm obliged to like a game that helped kickstart said genre.

So it's one thing to acknowledge that Super Metroid helped establish the "Metroidvania" genre alongside Symphony of the Night. That's a historical fact. Being obliged to like it however? Eh, not so much. It's also one step away from claiming that just becNausica?ike a series, I'm obliged to enjoy the first installment of that series. And I'll ask you, how many series are there where the first installment is considered the strongest? From experience, they're in a minority.

But Super Metroid wasn't the first game in the series - that was Metroid 1. It was however, the best in the series. So if you don't like the BEST in the series that defined a genre, I'm going to say you got problems. Saying Warcraft 1 is not really playable now is fair (mostly for technological reasons), but suggesting you don't like Starcraft or Warcraft 3 while professing to like RTS games would be off. As I said before, they never made a better Metroid game than Super Metroid, and given it's certainly playable in the same state as it always was there's no legitimate reason to suggest it's not a great game.

Since we're on the discussion of "Hating good media", could I bring up that I consider Studio Ghibli to be the most overrated anime company that I know of. Aside from Nausica? (The site needs to update their accepted characters list, the same thing happens when you spell Pok?mon properly) and Castle In the Sky, I really haven't caried for anything else of theirs I've seen.

 

[Hawki]

But Super Metroid wasn't the first game in the series - that was Metroid 1. It was however, the best in the series. So if you don't like the BEST in the series that defined a genre, I'm going to say you got problems. Saying Warcraft 1 is not really playable now is fair (mostly for technological reasons), but suggesting you don't like Starcraft or Warcraft 3 while professing to like RTS games would be off. As I said before, they never made a better Metroid game than Super Metroid, and given it's certainly playable in the same state as it always was there's no legitimate reason to suggest it's not a great game.

Declaring something to be "the best" is down to personal opinion, regardless of the genre. Also, even the StarCraft and Warcraft III analogy is flawed, because they're just one style of RTS, that play very differently from something like Civilization, Dawn of War, Supreme Commander, or Homeworld, to name a few. Now I actually quite like those examples, even if the best RTS IMO is StarCraft II, but that's another issue.

Or maybe it isn't, because it brings us back to Super Metroid. Do I think it's a good game? Yes. Do I think it's influential on the genre? Yes, and that's about the only 'fact' one can throw around. Do I think it's the best Metroid game? No - personally I consider Zero Mission and Fusion to be superior, though the former is practically interchangeable in terms of me ranking them. Even if you go the route of acclaim via consensus, declaring it to be the best is debatable since Metroid Prime seems to be in close contention.

So, no, the only 'fact' one can throw around is that Super Metroid is influential for the genre. Well, that and most people consider it to be the best (Metroid Prime aside) installment in the series, but ascribing a judgement of quality as 'fact' isn't going to fly anywhere.