Zero Punctuation: Papers, Please and Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

This shit is getting out of hand. I had to rewatch the video just to see what everyone was whining about and it was hardly even a joke for fucks sake. IT'S A GAMEPLAY ELEMENT. A gameplay element that makes complete and irrefutable sense when you consider the game's setting. Tumblr needs to go away. Forever.

snip

Please apologize.

And this just made me giggle uncontrollably. Thanks for that.

3 separate jokes bashing transsexuals in a single episode isn't humorous at all.

Humor is subjective.

 

[TheBoulder]

Please apologize.

Nah I don't feel like it.

 

[Erttheking]

Please apologize.

Nah I don't feel like it.

I hope you do realize that attack was vicious and uncalled for.

 

[Jenvas1306]

effing hey....
is this really such a long discussion now? I really cant believe that...
So Im trans too, and that fact did break the fun of this review a few times.
Why? because his jokes reminded me about the intolerance. one of his jokes is directly referring to how that checkpoint discriminates against gaining weight and against transsexuals (tranny being a pretty degratory term for this group, just like words he has used or just hinted for black people).
the other joke was against hypocrytes and would lead to a totally different discussion about straight guys liking chicks with penisses, which is something that exists in the large spectrum of human sexuality, but without them standing by their likes, thus rendering them hypocrites.
none of those jokes are directed against transsexuals and/or transgender people. they are simply a bit uncomfortable. (btw how do you show a that a woman is trans in his design style? I dont like the beardshade much, but have no idea how to do that better).
asking yahtzee to take down his video is ridiculous. I am not going to reduce other peoples rights just because of a single incident that caused me a bit of discomfort (nothing against what LGBT people have to deal with on a daily basis in some cases). I will however apreciate if he does not make such jokes to such an extent again.
so wtf? dont get your panties into a knot, no matter what they contain.

 

[rob_simple]

Snip

Wow, that really escalated. So we went from 'I didn't like your review' to 'fear is crushing every facet of humanity' in a few short paragraphs, that is really impressive.

I find it strange that, for someone who claims to have watched ZP for a while, you are surprised he didn't do a more somber review of Papers, Please. That has never been what Zero Punctuation is about, and he has done games with dark issues before, so why did you think he would make an exception?

Why not be glad that he has given the game some publicity when, otherwise, most people would never have even heard about it?

If this was one of his articles then maybe you'd have had a point, since they're often a lot more serious, but ZP is a comedy show, it's not a place to make everyone think about the human condition and then get depressed for awhile (despite what this colossal flamewar would suggest).

 

[IndigoHawk]

Papers Please looks good. I'm surprised Yahtzee reviewed it, but thanks for putting it on my radar.

Some people are blasting this episode of Zero Punctuation. All that shows is that some people don't want to communicate or relate to others. People won't change their minds for an argument that is self righteous, doesn't understand what a joke is, and doesn't understand that Zero Punctuation is often offensive.

Yahtzee made jokes about hypocrites and used sarcasm to comment not on transsexuals or the game itself but to critique the serious subject matter of the game. Sarcasm can makes people uncomfortable with the truth it shows (in this case, intolerance in that type of regime) if they stop and think about it.

Thanks Jenvas1306 for getting it. Your perspective seems reasonable, and I can see where you're coming from.

 

[Faegbeard]

Snip

snibbidy snab

I think he was joking mate.

 

[Evonisia]

Papers Please looks good. I'm surprised Yahtzee reviewed it, but thanks for putting it on my radar.

Some people are blasting this episode of Zero Punctuation. All that shows is that some people don't want to communicate or relate to others. People won't change their minds for an argument that is self righteous, doesn't understand what a joke is, and doesn't understand that Zero Punctuation is often offensive.

Yahtzee made jokes about hypocrites and used sarcasm to comment not on transsexuals or the game itself but to critique the serious subject matter of the game. Sarcasm can makes people uncomfortable with the truth it shows (in this case, intolerance in that type of regime) if they stop and think about it.

Thanks Jenvas1306 for getting it. Your perspective seems reasonable, and I can see where you're coming from.

The joke about the transexual/politician relationship was said during the Two Brothers part of the episode. I'm pretty sure gender politics don't have a relationship with that game.

I think people are getting offended at that, not the 'No Trannies' sign or the examining gender thing.

 

[sky14kemea]

Is not possible. Thread is lost. We can not get on topic back. Topic is lost, as taken to Ministerium house lost.

We of might well as speak of potato.

I have images saved for times like this.

This would be one of those threads I'd lock before it gets any worse, but since it's site content, I cannot.

Just know that I'll be keeping a close on eye on this thread from now on. If anyone has any problems and the report queue hasn't solved it, please PM me directly.

 

[Nurb]

papers please is soooo feindishly addictive.

Jokes against transsexuals were completely unnecessary and completely offensive.

You didn't mention the "As useful as a wi-fi connection in Auschwitz's prison showers" joke.

Grow a sense of humor. There's no genuine hate behind any of the jokes he does.

3 separate jokes bashing transsexuals in a single episode isn't humorous at all.

I like dudes too and he does a lot... A LOOOOT of gay jokes, but I know it's not hateful so I think it's funny. I thought the transexual jokes were hilarious too! Same with the other tasteless humor and it's not "BASHING", just as there's no gay bashing or Jew bashing.

Again, grow some humor, transfolk aren't special nor is anyone else for how they see themselves sexually or genderally.

 

[razer17]

In terms of the dick sucking joke, here's my oppinion: People are offended by the fact that the joke infers that if you suck the dick of a pre-op, you are gay, and as such that a pre-op transexual is still a man, even if she considers herself a woman. That's the offensive part, right? That Yahtzee is saying that she is still a man, at least until she is post op.

Well, homosexuality, as I see it, is to do with sex, and not gender. And a pre-op transexual is still a male, even though they maybe a woman in terms of gender. So I don't think Yatzhee is necessarily
saying that if you have a penis you should be treated like a man (Maybe he thinks that, maybe he doesn't), but that sucking a dick is a gay thing to do. And I tend to agree with that sentiment. But hey, what do I know?

The other thing, of course, is that regardless of whether he is implying what you think he's implying or not, people are making too big a deal out of a simple joke. Yahtzee being offensive has been his thing since day one, and if you're likely to be offended by it, don't watch. If you don't like nudity, you wouldn't visit a porn site, would you?

I mean, if you suck a dick, you are obviously aroused by that meant part of the body.

The ability to bob one's head up and down is not proof of arousal.

One person flat out admitted that he doesn't mind jokes about the Holocaust because he isn't Jewish but he does mind the trans jokes. He's apparently totally unaware or uncaring that this just might make him look like a hypocrite.

I do not see anything hypocritical in the statement "I am offended by things that hurt my feelings, not by things that hurt another person's feelings." It's selfish, sure (not necessarily in a bad way, either), but it is not inherently hypocritical.

Of course it's hypocritical. Why should trans people be immune to jokes, but not other groups of people. To flat out say one type of joke is bad and another is fine IS hypocritical. You can't be morally outraged about a joke that relates to you and then not be outraged when it happens to someone else.

Basically what that person is saying is that he doesn't care about the Jews, he only cares about him/herself. That's selfish, in a bad way.

 

[rob_simple]

Snip

snibbidy snab

I think he was joking mate.

You may be right, I honestly can't tell anymore, this thread is turning into a minefield of fake and genuine outrage.

It doesn't help that I've just come from a Youtube comments war where people were earnestly trying to claim that men are now second-class citizens in America...I don't know what to believe anymore!

 

[Miroluck]

As a middle-class, white, cis man, allow me to tell you that what hurts your social acceptance in my eyes isn't the jokes about trannies, but rather your whining regarding them. Instead of just laughing a joke, replying with a joke of your own regarding us cis scum, you whine and act like spoiled brats.

So you'll accept them the second they stop acting like themselves and start acting the way you tell them to?

I am not familiar with that definition of "acceptance." In fact, kind of sounds antonymous to me.

Surely you've meant "they", "themselves" and "they will"? I'm pretty sure that member you're talking to made it clear that he isn't trans himself.

 

[Archer666]

As a dude that likes dudes, I enjoy transexual and holocaust jokes. Liked this episode, ended up buying Papers, Please since I played the beta. Glory to Arstotzka ;-;

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

People do realize that an argument of the form "you can't recognize your own privilege because you are only capable of viewing it through the lens of said privilege" is basically circular/self-insulating, right?

Why do we need a term to describe 99.7% (in America, anyways) of non-trans adults? From a sheer stat/probability perspective, "cis" is lunacy.

 

[JimB]

Well, homosexuality, as I see it, is to do with sex, and not gender.

That may have sounded like a compromise in your mind, but I think this is an issue for which compromise is impossible. Either you accept that the person belongs to the sex he says he does, or you don't, and saying, "I'll treat you socially as being your gender but your body is still the only thing that defines your sex, so I'll attach asterisks to my descriptions of you," is on the you don't side of the equation.

Of course it's hypocritical. Why should trans people be immune to jokes, but not other groups of people.

Why is it people on the internet seem to assume that being okay with one instance of a thing occurring confers upon a person the responsibility to be okay with all instances of that thing occurring, regardless of context? It's like saying that if I support killing an armed intruder in your home, I must therefore be okay with sniping random strangers on the street because killing is killing and I have to support it all. That's simplistic crap. There is nothing hypocritical about saying, "That joke about me hurt my feelings," but not saying, "That joke about someone else hurt my feelings." Indeed, I'd argue that latter statement is likely complete nonsense.

Basically what that person is saying is that he doesn't care about the Jews, he only cares about him/herself.

Why should he? Honestly, why should he care about the Jews? Has even one Jewish person raised his voice to declare that he is offended by the Holocaust joke in this video? I certainly haven't noticed anyone doing so, so why should he be offended on behalf of people who are not offended on their own behalf?

I assume you can cite studies about gender dysmorphia and the neurochemistry of people who identify as female to back up this assertion of yours.

Yeah it's called any biology book ever since chromosomes were discovered.

Okay, so, cite them. Let's hear what these books you mention have to say about gender dysmorphia and the involved neurochemistry of their brains.

Yes, I'll accept them when they start acting normal instead of acting like some spoiled brats that want everyone to pander to them, tell them how special little butterflies they are, lie to them that yeah sure you're a female now Stev...err...Patricia and there's nothing gay in sucking cock, and when they can take a joke at their expense just like every other normal person can.

You just called transsexuals liars about their sex. You also said they're not normal people. You have adequately demonstrated that you will not under any circumstances accept them, so you might as well go ahead and drop the pretense that they could do anything to earn acceptance from you. It obviously won't happen, so quit trying to tell everyone it's their fault you won't accept them.

For fuck's sake, we're living in a world where assholes like you make it seem that if you crack a blonde joke or a joke about trannies, then you're public enemy number one, that spreads hate[sic], misogynistic pig, transophobe, a fucking barbarian.

Given that the word "trannies" is a pejorative term similar to "fag" or "******," yes, I am comfortable saying that you, personally, BrendanFinn, spread hate. That you use that term in the context of the rest of your post, and while calling me an asshole for not thinking it's cool to do so, reinforces my belief.

You want to fight for a cause, there are far worthier causes out there then whiteknighting and social justicing on a bloody internet forum against a fucking comedian that told a bloody joke.
Fucking perspective, you really could do with some.

So could you, since, if you bother to read my posts in this thread, you will see that I have defended the joke (which, for the record, I do not think is is a transsexual joke but is a lying politician joke) and that I haven't mentioned the joke itself to you. I have been talking about transsexuality to you. You're the one who brought the joke up, and it's only just now that you've done it.

 

[gjkbgt]

Causing people great harm for no reason or for your own personal gain is evil in my book.

Evil is a word you use to describe a situation were the morality is absolute.
it's used to justify not trying to understand actions.
the classic example is the nazis are evil.
and if that's the less you take from history you are missing the point so badly it hurts

 

[Fenix7]

13 pages of replies to this video? I wonder what in the world is going on....

That transsexual joke killed it. I stopped watching straight after. And it's my last Yahtzee video.

I know he can be offensive, but that's just completely uncalled for.

Oh... right. Stay classy, Escapist community!

 

[Bradmaster Flash]

All I can see here is "Stop laughing at what I don't find funny!". Why are you people even on the internet if you are unable to accept a few jokes? Far worse things have been said, get a sense of humour.

Just because a joke targets a specific demographic that you're part of, it doesn't make it prohibited just because you don't like it. I hardly believe that Yahtzee is transphobic, and if you really do believe that after a few jokes, you need to grow a thicker skin.

 

[Legion]

We of might well as speak of potato.

Did somebody say potato?

Sorry, just trying to bring some humour back into the discussion.

OT: I can see why people would find the joke offensive, but what I cannot understand is the attitude that he shouldn't have made it. Especially considering a lot of people seem to be implying our outright stating that Yahtzee has something against transgender people. By that logic he has something against pretty much everyone because he makes jokes about. He has made jokes about all kinds of things from religion and sexuality to race and class and people have never really cared.

When it comes to humour then I don't see how you can claim there should be some kind of line that can be drawn, jokes are either okay or they are not. It is not fair to pick and choose what jokes are "acceptable" based upon your own personal preference.

People have the right to dislike it, and express their dislike, but calls for an apology or the video being taken down are going too far.

Is not possible. Thread is lost. We can not get on topic back. Topic is lost, as taken to Ministerium house lost.

We of might well as speak of potato.

I have images saved for times like this.

I got the joke in regards to fleeing the first time I saw that image, but I only just now got the pun in the word "posts". That is depressingly slow for me.