Zero Punctuation: Pokemon White

[BabyRaptor]

Alrighty...I officially need a Fangirl Card. Yahtzee just ripped me a new one, and I love him all the more for it.

Please print cards, ASAP.

 

[TheZaius]

Love it or hate it, I'm glad he at least reviewed this game. I hope he reviews the next Paper Mario when it comes out for the 3DS.

 

[Falcon123]

I was expecting Yahtzee to review Pokemon someday...Diamond/Pearl and HeartGold/SoulSilver were probably way too samey-samey for him anyway to have made an enjoyable review.

All those arguments come down to the same: a lot of pokemons with a lot of moves.

Now let's remove the pokemons and moves that are basically useless, the exact same thing, work fundamentally the same way, or are countered the same way.


...woops.

Double woops once you consider playing the same person a second time. Surprise element's gone. Now even if you have millions of pokemons it's irrelevant. You know what your opponent has.

Triple woops: There's only one pokemon active at any one time.

That said, all of that would be very relevant, if it wasn't a spread sheet nonetheless. A very big spreadsheet. But a spreadsheet nonetheless. The match is decided before it starts... Except for the very bane of a good player's existence, the good'ol random factor. Isn't it nice when an attack just suddenly fails, fucking you over royally, due to a random statistic? Yeah. Pokemon seems saturated with that... "True" comp games eliminate random as much as possible. This isn't even like card games where you need the "random" factor of the draw... It's just there to fake some depth.

But hey, if you enjoy it, that's cool. The idea of competitive pokemon to me is akin to competitive rock, paper and scissors

Let's play a game: I've got a Gengar here, moves, stats, teammates and items all set up. Pick a Pokemon and try counter it.

I'm not sure how this will work, but I think it's cool enough to try. I'm gonna use Alakazam first

 

[TerranReaper]

So chess or any card game in general is something nobody can be serious about?


Gotta inform all those people who actually are serious about those things, quick, run!

In chess both players have 16 pieces, and a 64 square board, with very specific movement constraints for each piece.

In card games, the ones taken seriously that I can remember at least, the players hands aren't showing.

Pokemon is like a chess match with 2 lanes and 1 queen each, or a poker game where everyone's hands are showing. It's not "strategy", it's memorizing a spread sheet.

In Pokemon you have six Pokemon, each with an ability, stats and four moves. with nigh infinite combinations. There is a huge amount of strategy involved, who to lead with, what
moves to give a Pokemon to counter its weakness, how one Pokemon in a team can compliment another, how to counter someone who has their bases covered as well, what EVs to give to a Pokemon. There is a lot more strategy to a Pokemon battle than there is to Chess. Go in to a competitive battle without any strategy and watch how well your spread sheet memorization works.

Ha! If there actually was alot of strategy involved with Pokemon then I was a genius when I was six.

My Captcha says "Boose laser". What is that supposed to mean?

If you did this at the age of 6, what are you doing slumming around here?

Okay, what did you seriously mean by that? That I, right now am six years old?! No, but what mean is that when I first played Pokemon Blue I was six years old and was able to beat it. Therefore, the strategic part of Pokemon is obviously not hard if could do it at such a young age. I haven't bought the last 3 generations of Pokemon (Black/white, HG/SS, and Platinum) because I realized that it is the same game as before with minor improvements. Yes Pokemon is still a good game but I don't think it is meant to be played seven generations in a row.

Not sure what the other guys are saying, but basically, you implicitly stated that the games do not have a lot of strategy involved because you beat the games at a young age. You also stated that if the games did, you would be some kind of genius for doing so. But your opinion is mainly formed from the fact you only played the story, and not battles with other people, so I showed a video of an actual battle where strategy does make an appearance and sarcastically said that if you had the capacity to perform what the guy in the video did, why are you in this forum instead of doing better things with your insanely high intelligence?

In any case...

Besides, "catching them all" is no longer viable...or even the point, really. It's all about competitive play, with the advent of wi-fi in D/P/P.

Pokemon is now the middle school version of COD and Halo?

Do you know what Pokemon REALLY is?

It's secretly the deepest competitive strategy game ever.

IT HAS TIER LISTS

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/intro_comp_pokemon

I wouldn't call it the deepest when it's based on luck as well. Missing the punch and getting critical hits in is still all chance.

There are moves that have a certain amount of accuracy and power to them. Most people would opt for the more accurate but weaker attacks than the less accurate but more powerful. Crits are a problem, but simulators remove them to remove elements of luck. Also, moves that rely on luck such as double team that increase evasiveness or decrease accuracy are banned in competitive play. When you factor in things such as predictions and indications of how the other person's pokemon are set up based on items and moves, it leaves very little to chance. And that's disregarding damage calculations.

 

[aashell13]

"there's even a social feature where you can connect with other people playing the same game; except what is the likelihood of anyone within wifi range playing the same game as you unless you're in middle school or in japan where there are approximately 10 million ppl in wifi range"


Gee, Yahtzee, it's almost like those are the target demographics...

other than that i agree with most of what was said. I played silver a bit on my brother's GameBoy color back in the day, it was alright i guess, but i didn't like it enough to buy it myself or bother trying any of the sequels. from what i've seen they're similar to the point of sameness anyway.

 

[Alakallanar]

In Pokemon you have six Pokemon, each with an ability, stats and four moves. with nigh infinite combinations. There is a huge amount of strategy involved, who to lead with, what moves to give a Pokemon to counter its weakness, how one Pokemon in a team can compliment another, how to counter someone who has their bases covered as well, what EVs to give to a Pokemon. There is a lot more strategy to a Pokemon battle than there is to Chess. Go in to a competitive battle without any strategy and watch how well your spread sheet memorization works.

Pokemon indeed calls for a lot more strategic planning than most people think. At least in competitive play. But chess definitely is the more strategically and tactically demanding game.

 

[William Ossiss]

you know... i never had trouble with that green haired twat...

 

[Brad Shepard]

wish we could have heard about how he felt about the plot, but ah well, shit happens.

Nintendo game...Plot??? Since when?

either A, you dident play the game, or B, you rushed though it without reading dialog. The game has a preety good story if your willing to forgive its faults.

 

[Flare Phoenix]

Was kinda waiting for him to address the "why don't the bad guys just use 40 pokemon each" thing since they're breaking the law everywhere else, but good overall. It really hasn't changed, though thanks for the heads up on the electric gym.

The bigger question is why they use Pokemon at all when bullets would seem far easier and less hassle.

The fan base has a theory on that. Guns don?t exist, think about it, once people figured out how to tame creatures that could cause earthquakes or shoot lighting why would anyone need guns?

It's been shown consistantly throughout the anime guns do infact exist. In the episode "The Legend of Dratini" the Safari Zone warden points a gun at Ash's head. In the episode "Here Comes the Squirtle Squad" the shop owners point their guns at Ash after just getting robbed by Team Rocket (who themselves used a bazooka not too long before that).

Besides, in the Pokemon world getting electricuted is more of a minor annoyance than any life-threatening occurance.

The thing I never got in Pokemon is why causing a Pokemon to faint makes it impossible to catch (or why failing to catch a Pokemon renders the Pokeball used useless).

 

[Crazie_Guy]

I think anyone could have predicted the gist of this review. A 5th generation game in the one series most prominently in violation of Yahtzee's long standing hate of innovationless sequels? Not a chance. What I'm much more interested in now, is what he thought of Pokemon Yellow when he first played it, when Pokemon was new and not yet bogged down with years of samey additions.

 

[TimeLord]

....infinite item bag after R/B/Y's STUPID limit...

Oh god, I hated that! I was go glad when I'd found out they removed it when I bought Soul Silver!

 

[profpeanut]

I'm not sure how this will work, but I think it's cool enough to try. I'm gonna use Alakazam first

Gengar fires off a Shadow Ball. There's only two ways Alakazam can win here (since you didn't give me any stats or items to work with):
1. Alakazam poured all his EV stats into HP and Special Defense, surviving the hit and OHKO-ing with Psychic. Since Alakazam is the poster boy for "glass cannon", that's unlikely.
2. Alakazam also has a Choice Scarf. Normally, he outspeeds Gengar and can hit first, but Gengar is Scarfed.

Most other scenarios, Gengar OHKOs. But it all depends on what the other player put on the Alakazam, yes? You'd think all Alakazams would be Scarfed then, but being locked down into using only one attacking move is just Sucker Punch (read: a powerful Dark-type move that always hits first, but only works if the foe attacks as well) bait. And you won't know if your opponent even carries the move or went with Crunch instead.

Here's another team, and another Gengar. Try beat this one.

 

[InnerRebellion]

I must be batshit insane, because I thought Black was a really good game.

 

[Danpascooch]

You got your game strategy thrown off by EMOLGA enough to complain about it? Pokemon wasn't EASY enough for you that a Gym Leader you COULDN'T sweep with one move is a negative point against it?

The bane of Yahtzee's existence.​

Besides, "catching them all" is no longer viable...or even the point, really. It's all about competitive play, with the advent of wi-fi in D/P/P.

And the game has changed a lot. The basic 8 gyms, 4 moves per pokemon, Rock/Paper/Scissors combat system hasn't. But the other mechanics have.

From the infinite TM use of B/W, to the infinite item bag after R/B/Y's STUPID limit, to the addition of Abilites in Gen 3, The Special split in Gen 2, the Special/Physical MOVE split in Gen 4, and even the removal/addition of new HMs for world exploration, to the key item mapping for easy Bike use.

He made some good points, but did anyone notice he complained about how his elementally diverse team made the game too easy, and then proceeded to complain about the gym being too hard?

So the game is simultaneously stupidly easy, and frustratingly hard? Come on Yahtzee.

 

[goldeneye101]

I usually don't post on Escapist, I'm usually on /v/, /vp/, and /sp/ and heard about this:

Actually, I thought the review is funny, especially the "version doesn't matter" joke. But note to those that hate it just because you sound funny: You aren't acting any tougher.

Also, the stuff he mentioned are the stuff that made Pokemon iconic in the first place. Of course, also note that Yahtzee only played RBG Generation.

On that note, I'd love to see him VS Whitney in the original Gold/Silver. The difficulty was EASIER in this game than ever before, and if he got troubled by an Emolga I feel sorry for him.

Moreover, about the "Pokemon fans are crazy" comment, isn't that the same with most fanbases?

Other than that, another great review/criticism, Yahtzee.

 

[Danpascooch]

I'm not sure how this will work, but I think it's cool enough to try. I'm gonna use Alakazam first

Gengar fires off a Shadow Ball. There's only two ways Alakazam can win here (since you didn't give me any stats or items to work with):
1. Alakazam poured all his EV stats into HP and Special Defense, surviving the hit and OHKO-ing with Psychic. Since Alakazam is the poster boy for "glass cannon", that's unlikely.
2. Alakazam also has a Choice Scarf. Normally, he outspeeds Gengar and can hit first, but Gengar is Scarfed.

Most other scenarios, Gengar OHKOs. But it all depends on what the other player put on the Alakazam, yes? You'd think all Alakazams would be Scarfed then, but being locked down into using only one attacking move is just Sucker Punch (read: a powerful Dark-type move that always hits first, but only works if the foe attacks as well) bait. And you won't know if your opponent even carries the move or went with Crunch instead.

Here's another team, and another Gengar. Try beat this one.

Lol, you certainly know your shit, or are at least well versed it teh googlez

My team has been "under construction" for well over a year now, basically once I got three of them set I stopped caring since that's all I needed for the battle frontier.

Right now I have:

Scizor (I fucking love this thing):
X-Scizzor
Iron Head
Swords Dance
U-Turn

Item: uh......I forgot

IVs: Through the fucking roof, like all around, it's like I won the lottery with this one
EVs: Max speed Max attack

Ampharos:
Light Screen
Reflect
Thunderbolt? (Can't remember, it's going to be volt switch for sure when I move him to white)
Can't remember (I really just screen support and then move him out anyway)

Item: Light CLay

IVs: Very good, nowhere near Scizor, but respectably good (took dozens of breeds)
EVs: Split between health and both forms of defense, with a little speed thrown in there

Dragonite:
Outrage
Brick Break
Fly
Dragon Dance

Item: Choice Band (Yep, I'm one of those guys

IVs: Very good
EVs: Split between attack and speed


I think the three other slots are going to be Walrein, Hippodon, and Blaziken. I already have them to level 100, but I haven't optimized their IV's, EV's (well, a couple of them have optimized EV's) or movesets yet, so I don't really count them as part of my team.



Although it's not for battling, I am super proud of my Smeagle, it is the ULTIMATE catcher.

Moves:
Spore (because it has ONE HUNDRED accuracy unlike hypnosis)
False Swipe (base attack: 40 -> Stab Bonus: 60 -> Technician Ability: 90 -> White Scarf: 100)
Foresight (so that 100 power false swipe can hit ANYTHING)
Spider Web (for those pesky wandering pokemon)

It's at level 100, and it can catch ANYTHING

 

[KalosCast]

He made some good points, but did anyone notice he complained about how his elementally diverse team made the game too easy, and then proceeded to complain about the gym being too hard?

So the game is simultaneously stupidly easy, and frustratingly hard? Come on Yahtzee.

Nobody likes a fanboy.

He complained that the game as a whole was too easy because of his diverse elemental team.

He then complained that the rock paper scissors style combo the game told him to pursue was not actually the one he was supposed to pursue in the case of one particular pokemon in one particular gym.

These are not mutually exclusive.

 

[MrThisguy978]

i guess for me its more like reliving my first game ever as a child oh so many times over again

though black/white had the most plot of any pokemon game ever so far

still bought it and lost 65 hours of my life i wont be getting back

 

[mexicola]

I'm a little disappointed there is only one crazy pokemon person defending the game on the first page (and I couldn't be arsed to read the remaining 10). But nice one Yahtzee - I would have been concerned if you said you liked the game. I can sleep easy now.