Zero Punctuation: Portal 2

[rsvp42]

Other than the fact that we're used to the Portal concept because of the first game, Portal 2 is superior in just about every way. I would have liked a couple more flingy, physics-y puzzles, but the overall experience is superior.

Sometimes I think Yahtzee should just steer clear of games where he has to spread his criticisms so thin. It's like he felt he had to say something humorously critical, so he just used his vague feelings of it being not as indy or surprising. They could have really messed this game up, but they came out with something longer, more entertaining and more creative than even the impeccable debut.

 

[Hyakunin Isshu]

(I'm sorry for putting this here, but I didn't know where else to put it. Hopefully you'll enjoy the tech demo videos below.)

To Ben Croshaw:

You don't care what I have to say about graphics, but, damn it, I'm going to try.

There is so many problems with you, Mr. Croshaw, but I'm just going to start with this one:

"Visual effects technology in both videogames and films have advanced to the point that what is put on screen is limited only by the director's imagination"

"Oh, for the days of the last console generation, when technology sat on the very agreeable fence between high-techitude and accessibility, when developers weren't so slow to ask themselves questions like "Strictly speaking do we really need a physics engine in a Championship Manager game? Is it so important that the league tables slide realistically down the screen?""

"Now, Last Crusade achieved this effect because it was a real stunt occurring in reality between real, physical objects, which is virtually impossible to fully simulate in pixel space because of the millions of factors you can't possibly predict, like the movements of the thousands of dust and grit particles that cloud up and get in Harrison Ford's face."

It seems you are trying to tell everyone that graphics in games will never get any better, and movie CGI can almost never be as good as the real thing, so it's pointless to even try. What an awful thing to tell people! We didn't get here by throwing up our hands and saying "too hard! we give up!" Technology *NEVER* works like that! You just want to go back to the "good OLD days".

And what the Hell is it with you calling it "pixels"? You sound like an old man who reviews movies then a gamer. Why didn't you call it CGI, or graphics, or polygons , like most of us do?

Let me get to the point: You say games are now "limited only by the director's imagination". That is complete nonsense! If that was true in anyway, then please show me this game, with no canned-animation or scripted sequence:

--In this photorealistic game, the Player is on top of a mountain looking down on a huge city. In the city, the Player sees 100,000 Cyborg Demon Ninjas, rampaging through the city, killing everyone in sight. On top of that, there is Giant Robots and motherships destroying all the buildings. The city itself can be dynamically destroyed; better then anything seen in both Red Faction or Minecraft (See the movie 2012). This photorealistic game is also a Open World game with real rooms in all the buildings, meaning, if I wanted to, I can hide in a fridge from all those CDNs in a apartment....--

Do you know any 360 or PS3 games like that? No, you don't. The only thing near to that, is Red Faction: Guerrilla, and even then, you can only destroy something that has 2 floors and 5 rooms. It's not like you can destroy something the size of Black Mesa or anything. In fact, some games can't even have more then 5 bad guys on the ground, because of bad programming, and or the way the game engine works. They get around it by using tricks, but I can always tell when they are using those tricks. And here's a big secret: programing gets much easier when computers are a lot more powerful. I'm a programmer, so I know what I'm talking about.

So please stop talking as if we hit the holy motherland, because we can barely have a photorealistic human in a room, much less an army of photorealistic humans destroying a city in a non scripted way.

For anyone thinks this can't happen in the next 5 to 10 years, think again:

Physic tech demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuWuTc5agVA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bKphYfUk-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlcc9wJAzFQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grIVUDH4FIM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87qdmuOesRs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsMjRmaJOqo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrb8PSpkhkQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwoJ-upjeKo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JrM4ujLY_A

real-time ray tracing and path tracing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbokPe4_-mY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyoHvNpuaK4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnXW0CitlIA


real-time in-game graphics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_YNR38H-kM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YjXCae4Gu0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GckOkpeJ3BY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvI1l0nAd1c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GmrdHxpYxk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBJIpQsecB0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THaam5mwIR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5i_mgF7Vas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWZjzSQgBrg


I'll end this by saying, I know my words will fall on deaf ears, and if Mr. Croshaw ever sees this, he is just going to make fun of my bad grammer, and all my stupid links. Well, sorry for wanting to go to the future, but I can't live forever, and I can think of a million fun things in games, that you just can't do in this seventh generation of consoles. Sure, we have Portal and Mindcraft, but do you really want to wait 20 years on the seventh generation, hoping someone is going to make a super game to come-out, while playing Gears Of War 12, or Modern Warfare 7? Because even Ubisoft said they don't want to make anything new until the next-gen comes a calling:
http://scrawlfx.com/2011/04/ubisoft-ceo-industry-needs-new-consoles


And Mr. Croshaw? If you really want to try new and weird games, why don't you try all the Wii games you never played? Or all the games that came out in the 90s? Or all the indie games? Or the great iphone games? Or all the mods? Why do you *always* have to talk about the most popular games? Why not review Star Control 2? Why not? It's sad you openly lie to try to move the gaming industry your way. You say you want weirder games, but you only seem to enjoy shooters, and sometimes RPGs.

( P.S. You, Mr. Croshaw, give gamers everywhere a bad name.)

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

They do seem to lay the humour on a bit thick in Portal 2. Yes, we get it, Aperture Science is run by mad men with no regard for safety! Now tell me how the hell they keep hiring people!

 

[sergnb]

gotta give Valve that, creating really challenging puzzles is much harder than actually solving them. And to be honest, 70% of the game was a tutorial, so you can't really make the players feel like dumbfucks when you start and then have them steamroll through the rest of the game. I think Valve accomplished a really thin balance between frustrating puzzles and easy ones. Just when you are about to say "oh fuck this I'll solve it tomorrow", you find the missing piece that was lacking.

It really makes for a really rewarding experience, every puzzle I solved I felt smart even though I knew every single player that has bought this game has solved it and probably within much less time.

And we still have the DLC's, that promised more challenging puzzles, leaderboards and whatnot. HOORAY!

 

[Jas0913]

completely disagree with yatzee's opinion. I found no faults in portal 2, the only valid complaint yahtzee gave was that some of the sequences can drag on. It's a puzzle game, would you have rather they put less puzzles into the game. The narrative in portal 2 was in my opinion much better than that of the original. The reason why valve put this out was because the original portal left gamers wanting more. The original left it's players wanting to know more about the facility of aperture and the computer running the place, and it left of starving for more puzzles that revolve around the usage of the portal gun, and we got just that!

 

[UnravThreads]

Best way to describe Portal 2, in my opinion is that Portal 2 is Valve's best game to date, but it's not as good as Portal. I know that makes no sense, but in a way it does. Portal 2 is, on paper, the best game they've done. It just isn't Portal, though.

 

[McMarbles]

I've been down on Yahtzee lately, but I have to give him props for not joining the collective circle-jerk over this game.

 

[themerrygambit]

Awww And I was hoping you'd be jamming forks into your eyes again. I anticipated you'd probably say that it was Portal 1 but with a lot of extra useless padding. There is just something divinely wondrous in a perfect simplicity.

 

[Electrogecko]

This review was full of metaphors that I thought very well encompassed my opinion on the game.

I found the cinematic sequences to be great, especially because they weren't cutscenes.

I agree that the co-op was much more compact and got more difficult than the single player ever did in the last few chambers. I also think that this was by far my favorite coop experience of this generation.

It's just impossible for me to say which one I'd recommend to somebody who has never played either one and can only play one.

And for Portal 3, I was thinking they'd set it back in the days of Cave Johnson and dozens of live human test subjects and make it semi-massively multiplayer, but space would work amazingly for the game. My prediction is based off Valve's recent statement....something about Portal 2 possibly being the last primarily single player game they make.

 

[Hyakunin Isshu]

Sorry for the 2 posts.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

Good review but Portal 1 has no replay value either, except maybe after you've been away for weeks or days, just like Portal 2! Also Portal 2 is WAY better by FAR! Also they're gonna constantly add stuff to Portal 2 so there will always be more puzzles

 

[sergnb]

I think Yahtzee's being a little unfair in his comparison of portal 2 to the original (big surprise there).
Portal 1 aimed for 50 and delivered 60. Portal 2 aims for 100 and delivers 99.
If that analogy makes sense :S
(120% > 99%, but 60 < 99 )

I just don't think something having more flaws necessarily makes it worse, because theres also so much more good stuff as well.

I agree that one mouthful of Portal 1 is better than a mouthful of Portal 2, but the Portal 2 cake is 5x bigger, and its still very very very tasty (like 95% as tasty as the original).


15 minutes in bed with or an hour in bed with

Am I making any sense?
:S

I think you may be onto a point here. I don't think, however that the portal 2 quality is any lower. It's just that he doesn't get the same blast. If you have two great games, both arguably equally good, but you expect one to be good and not the other, which one will you enjoy more? Simple really....

We all agree that first one was a surprise, hence we did not expect it and it was more fun experiencing what it had to offer. And the second is a sequel and blablabla you already know what's going on blablabla.

The point is: Portal 2 is much better executed, IMO, in every single aspect. Yes, maybe some puzzles were pretty easy, yes, maybe the travelling through sections was tedious... wait, what? no it wasn't, because the narrative took place IN THOSE MOMENTS. You really see what is really going on. What was supposed in the first game, it is told in this one, no more room for doubt.

You can say that may be worse, as the first one left more room for imagination and crazy theories, and the second one blatantly explains to you how the whole place is wrecking up, but well, The fans wanted to know more about the story, and Valve delivered. I can't say I'm not happy I got to go through the ye'olde aperture science facilities (someone explain to me why are they sealed tho)

Also the length of the game is much more pleasant, you get MORE game, but it doesn't stretch it to a point that you feel like you are just doing the same thing over and over.

 

[Xanadu84]

Portal has the worst fans...really? Really? No, Im sorry, but I can't let that slide. Portal 2 became so unbelievably popular, that people had to latch onto it, and it was short enough that distilling the most memorable moments left you with Cake and COmpanion Cube. With only 2 hours of experience to draw on, it got beaten to death by fans who were slightly overzealous about what Yahtzee himself described as the coming messiah. This is annoying, yes. But you cannot even begin to compare an ironic abundance of cake jokes with a racist kid on Live, and OCD weirdo playing Counterstrike every night for the last decade, a tea bagging douchbag on Halo...I mean seriously, at least Portal fans constantly parrot something that is worthy of a little parroting. I think maybe Yahtzee should remember that he, by his own admission, doesn't socialize very often, and of Portal references are that annoying, then I suppose its for the best, but take my word for it what I say that Portal fanboys are downright academic compared to a number of communities you may find.

Also, personally, the number 2 in a title doesn't change my opinion of the game if the game is good. Portal did everything that a sequel should do, and did it over a much longer period of time without ever dipping in the quality. And they introduced plenty of new mechanics that expanded the game space to amazing and innovative depths. Portal 2 was most assuredly better then the original. Yes, that is my opinion. But I think that the design choices back my opinion.

 

[hdgehog6]

Yahtzee is right. Portal2 is a blast on its own merits but is unfortunate for having to follow Portal. Valve could not recreate Portal so they created a completely different game with new mechanics and it actually works better than I expected. It gave the fans the back story they wanted. Portal was brilliant and Portal2 was fun, but upon reflection you really can't compare the two games. It's unfair too.

 

[Pearwood]

Portal 2 was certainly a bit different with the comedy, Portal 1 just had a faceless announcer insulting you and Portal 2 has the faceless announcer followed by the corrupt corporate executive/mad scientist followed by the essentially good person who let power get to his head. All funny in their own right but very different from the constant flow of sarcasm from Portal 1.

When it comes to decent sequels, Portal 2...
Takes the Cake!
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Congratulations on making the first post on any forum I've seen that made me groan out loud. Nicely done

 

[PurplePlatypus]

I agree the Co-op in Portal 2 is unfortunate. It?s insanely fun and awesome but it?s easy to taint the experience. It suffers from the curse of being a puzzle game, once you know the answers you know them, nothing short of time and memory loss will fix that. Then you add in another person...

 

[sergnb]

Portal has the worst fans...really? Really? No, Im sorry, but I can't let that slide. Portal 2 became so unbelievably popular, that people had to latch onto it, and it was short enough that distilling the most memorable moments left you with Cake and COmpanion Cube. With only 2 hours of experience to draw on, it got beaten to death by fans who were slightly overzealous about what Yahtzee himself described as the coming messiah. This is annoying, yes. But you cannot even begin to compare an ironic abundance of cake jokes with a racist kid on Live, and OCD weirdo playing Counterstrike every night for the last decade, a tea bagging douchbag on Halo...I mean seriously, at least Portal fans constantly parrot something that is worthy of a little parroting. I think maybe Yahtzee should remember that he, by his own admission, doesn't socialize very often, and of Portal references are that annoying, then I suppose its for the best, but take my word for it what I say that Portal fanboys are downright academic compared to a number of communities you may find.

Also, personally, the number 2 in a title doesn't change my opinion of the game if the game is good. Portal did everything that a sequel should do, and did it over a much longer period of time without ever dipping in the quality. And they introduced plenty of new mechanics that expanded the game space to amazing and innovative depths. Portal 2 was most assuredly better then the original. Yes, that is my opinion. But I think that the design choices back my opinion.

I agree 100% with this post. Portal fans are not annoying. Kids trying to imitate these fans and repeating the same shit over and over until they definitely kill it are. You can't blame an entire community of fans because there are some retards making their retardation in your proximity. The internet is the internet, memes will be repeated to death until they are not funny anymore, DEAL WITH IT.

As I said in a preview of portal 2 that was complaining about "portal 2 being a massive meme attractor" like it was a bad thing, seriously, who the fuck cares about memes, do you guys seriously get that bothered by a bunch of teenagers loling at their own retarded shit in 4chan? Because I don't.

 

[danhere]

Now I just need to convince my girlfriend to play the co-op with me before my best friend.

 

[tahrey]

No "cake is a lie eh"? I work at a highschool and already kids are shouting at me they are going to "BURN MY HOUSE DOWN WITH THE LEMONS" or just "SPAAaaaAAAACCCccccEEEEee!"

Man, I haven't even played it but for some reason I'm finding these things very, childishly amusing.
I guess the juxtaposition of the manly-businessman that Cave Johnson seems to be (despite his already comedic name) with... Incendiary lemons.
IN SPAAAAACE.
Which is, man, so nineties.

Good call on comparing Monty Python and the Holy Grail to Portal. If I never hear the phrase, "It's only a model" ever again, it'll be too soon.

Shh!

If Portal 3 takes place in space, how would momentum work?

It would work with the help of science!

Erm, I'm also thinking "with the laws of thermodynamics", though they are themselves covered by "SCIENCE!". Momentum is not affected by being in space. In fact, it's even more important, particularly if you're also in vacuum as well as microgravity. (Challenge for programmers: simulate micrograv properly, don't just turn gravity off altogether)

There's also the "rotating space station idea", which isn't the simple "turn wheel, stuff now has weight" concept that everyone thinks it is. For a start, it could lead to an interesting challenge based on something like this:
http://freefall.purrsia.com/zu/ffskates.gif (from http://freefall.purrsia.com/zu.htm)
... or even a more subtle http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff900/fv00900.htm... get slurped towards the vent, and at the last moment... FIRE THE PORTAL!

You forgot the most important thing to talk about. Graphics comparsion! Everyone loves it, like a guilt pleasure! Anyone notice how AA on a GTX 570 is sooooo much better than the PS3 version? Me neither.

I like the part where they render the pixels, that's my favourite.
Also, have Sony STILL not figured out this anti-aliasing jig? It's 2011 already! I had a cheap PC videocard like 7 years ago which had no trouble with it. Hell, even a slightly creaky embedded chipset can handle it nowadays.

Did he just say that there's no potential for new meme's in Portal 2? Have you been paying attention the last few weeks Yahtzee? Does space ring a bell, or lemons?

Didn't you see the bit about having Portal 3 set in Space, as that makes everything better? (Right at the end, btw)

am I the only person to not beat portal and then not care about portal 2?

And yet, here you are, on page 2 of the thread. Eh?


Finally I couldn't find the original post (maybe deleted?), but someone was asking why the game being longer/bigger was a bad thing in Yahtzee's eyes. I think you weren't paying attention/missed the point. It's not that being larger is a bad thing per se, in fact it did seem his only minor beef with Portal 1 was that you could easily exhaust it in a single day, but that the length has been achieved by padding it out with rambling cutscenes and inconsequential bits of the overall plot, shoved in the middle of puzzles. Whereas they may have been better saved for "between levels" parts, or as unlockable extras playable at the main menu, depending on how far through you got. Like, it's got big... but it's not grown taller or more muscular, just blobby with fat that could be trimmed with no affect on the actual gameplay or even the important story points.

Man, the fourth page had just started when I began collecting the quotes for this, then I got heavily derailed by trying to find the Freefall links. I wonder how many there'll be now?

edit: only five? tch.
further edit: these preceding comics could be good inspiration for such a game ... IN SPACE. Add those jump-boots and away you go: http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff900/fv00897.htm ... http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff900/fv00898.htm

 

[FerroMancer]

Why did he complain? Because he doesn't want to jam forks into his eyes.