Zero Punctuation: Shovel Knight - Good NES Nostalgia

Evonisia

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Jun 24, 2013
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What clever usage of old gags to get our Zero Punctuation nostalgia higher.
Copy paste image of the script.
Bane's 2012 mask used to represent something unpleasant.
Fantasy World Dizzy mention.
And so on and so forth.

Still this seems a tad interesting. And didn't Papers, Please perform well commercially? Or is that just a reference to the marketing?
 
Jan 12, 2012
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I'd argue that it's not nostalgia to like old things if the old things are doing stuff you want that new things don't. How many people still play old editions of D&D and Traveler because they provide the gameplay they want? Video games have less of that because remaking old games is usually fairly simple, but the sheer number of remakes that are little more than HD upgrades show that there are some things that are respected for quality rather than age.
 

Uratoh

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Oh that treant soul...

And I'll agree, the magic spell items in the game really are overkill...the game's quite beatable without them (and nets you an achievement for doing so), but several sections are a LOT harder, especially without the 'briefly become completely intangible and invulnerable to all damage' and the 'dash forward at high speeds in mid air' spells.

Now I'm kind of curious which of the DSvania games Yahtzee likes best...knowing him, my best guess would be Ecclesia, since while it has flaws, it doesn't reek of unfufilled potential like Ruin (though Ruin has some great stages) and doesn't have Dawn of Sorrow's 'use contrived stylus gimick to kill boss or you have to fight it again' thing.
 

Gone Rampant

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"... on the NES in order to score nostalgia points with a cabal of fat neckbeards who haven't seen their winkies since 1989."

Christ, I don't like Moviebob either since the extended baby crying session that was the ASM2 "Review" (If you can call what is one of the most miserable examples of nostalgia whining about how the old days were so better available for free on the internet a "Review"), but still, let's have some standards.

Also, yay, positive Yahtzee review.
 

ZZoMBiE13

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Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!

That is one of my favorite shows. :)

I've heard too many people praising Shovel Knight. Guess I'm going to have to give it a go.
 

C14N

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Been watching this on Game Grumps. I didn't think much of it but might get it on sale if it's that good.
 

Falseprophet

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I like to watch classic film noir like The Big Sleep and Double Indemnity, but there's no way I'm nostalgic for them--they were made when my dad was still in diapers! I think it's a mark of a medium's maturity that there are older works that can still speak to today's society.

On that note, how much great art is also a work of nostalgia? Isn't Saving Private Ryan nostalgic (while simultaneously skewering that nostalgia)? Weren't the Ramones nostalgic for the simpler rock 'n' roll of the 50s and 60s in the face of huge arena rock show productions with string quartets and 10-minute keyboard solos? I grant that a lot of nostalgia can be indulgent tripe or shallow comfort food, but it's not impossible to make great art from it either.
 

Barciad

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A very good point. How is it nostalgia if you weren't there to experience it first time round. A similar thing could be said about old films, or for me at least, old music. Sure, modern music has superb production and sound quality and getting to hear it could never be easier. Yet I prefer to listen to older bands. The Beatles split up many years before I was born, and yet I still listen to them a lot. Similar things could be said about Queen, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who, etc, etc.
But I digress. With games there would be a certain degree of nostalgia. Though I never had an NES, I was still able to play the one at my friends house. I got to play Mario's 1-3, Zelda, Megaman, Castlevania (but never Metroid) back when they were all brand spanking new. On a further note, my word did the NES have a strong stable of games back then?
 

bobdole1979

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wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.
 

ZZoMBiE13

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Clowndoe said:
ZZoMBiE13 said:
Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!
British comedy is practically half the air-time on his weekly Youtube show.
I wasn't aware that he did a weekly YouTube show. All kinds of new information today.
 

Machine Man 1992

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What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
 

Erttheking

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Hm, this game looks actually good. Mac port isn't coming out for awhile, but the 3DS has a version of it. Can anyone tell me if it handles well on that platform?
 

orangeapples

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bobdole1979 said:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.
Well, people tend to do reviews of games when they come out and it is kinda a high profile game. Also, Game Grumps does reviews?
 

Evonisia

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ZZoMBiE13 said:
Clowndoe said:
ZZoMBiE13 said:
Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!
British comedy is practically half the air-time on his weekly Youtube show.
I wasn't aware that he did a weekly YouTube show. All kinds of new information today.
Look for "Let's Drown Out", and you'll notice that Yahtzee has been slowly dragging points he made there into Zero Punctuation. Not a bad thing, just something to pick up on.
 

Dai Makai

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erttheking said:
Hm, this game looks actually good. Mac port isn't coming out for awhile, but the 3DS has a version of it. Can anyone tell me if it handles well on that platform?
The 3DS port is smooth and awesome. No slowdown or glitches from what I've played. Everything's easy to see and as far as I know it's the exact same as the Wii U and Steam versions with the same music and stuff.
 

Erttheking

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Dai Makai said:
erttheking said:
Hm, this game looks actually good. Mac port isn't coming out for awhile, but the 3DS has a version of it. Can anyone tell me if it handles well on that platform?
The 3DS port is smooth and awesome. No slowdown or glitches from what I've played. Everything's easy to see and as far as I know it's the exact same as the Wii U and Steam versions with the same music and stuff.
Thank you very much. *Pulls out debit card* I think I know how I'm spending my evening.
 

Something Amyss

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ZZoMBiE13 said:
Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!
Unless he's nostalgic about hating it. >.>

Falseprophet said:
I like to watch classic film noir like The Big Sleep and Double Indemnity, but there's no way I'm nostalgic for them--they were made when my dad was still in diapers! I think it's a mark of a medium's maturity that there are older works that can still speak to today's society.
Depends on why you like them, I guess. I have a friend who's nostalgic for John Wayne movies, when Wayne died the year he was born. Frankly, he grew up on them. I grew up with the MArx Brothers, and while I think their comedies work on their own, I admit that a certain level of nostalgia goes into it. I've seen wrestling fans wax nostalgic for the Hulkamania era that died before they were born.

I mean, you can like them anyway, but that doesn't mean you're not nostalgic.

bobdole1979 said:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.
Indie games are notorious for buying everyone off.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Jun 5, 2013
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OH GOD!
Can the miffed trifle please be a reoccurring bit?!
That face was absolutely hysterical! I'd buy a t-shirt with that little guy and the text "I'm a trifle miffed!"
 

Thanatos2k

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The nostalgia bashing always makes me laugh. No, older games really ARE just better than the crap we get today.
 

Ephidel

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It's quite a bizarre coincidence that Yahtzee has been playing the DS Castlevanias recently, seeing as I finished Order of Ecclesia myself yesterday. Halfway through a Normal Mode re-run for a second Master Ring now. I beat Portrait of Ruin back in late May/early June and I've had Dawn of Sorrow since 2008.

Makes me think of what Koji Igarashi will do next. I've heard there's some dispute about who actually owns the Castlevania franchise, so I'm hoping Iga can keep it and run with it on solo projects. Konami have really gone down the shitter as well. They were one of the classics, with Gradius, Contra (Probotector for me), Castlevania, Cybernator, Axelay and Pop'n Twinbee. I tried getting into MGS several times, but never could, and I always just went with Resident Evil, not Silent Hill. I had hoped to get the HD Version, but after hearing what Jim Sterling said about it, I decided to skip it.

Anyway, just a bit strange to think that "the industry" (< I hate that term) has changed so much and yet the insular Japanese developers are still failing to listen to any outside input after nearly 30 friggin' years. I mean, take Nintendo and "localisation" for example. We should have worldwide release dates by now, or at least release "weeks" where everyone gets a game within a few days of one another. Taking months for localisation is just a BS carryover relic of a practice that should be long dead by now.

I worry for the Japanese gaming industry. The world will be a dimmer place without it, but they really need to get their shit together.
 

Thanatos2k

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Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
PS1 onward was 3D. We want 2D.

I too hate the crusade to flee back to the NES, because the NES wasn't the pinnacle - the SNES was. When you make the decision to use pixel art instead of 3D - I expect at a MINIMUM that the graphics look SNES quality. These intentionally bad NES-caliber (or WORSE!) pixel graphics are just lazy.
 

bobdole1979

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orangeapples said:
bobdole1979 said:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.
Well, people tend to do reviews of games when they come out and it is kinda a high profile game. Also, Game Grumps does reviews?
not like this haha. This is clearly a grass roots type of marketing. Basically give people who have a lot of influence in the gaming world ie youtubers money to play your game and talk about how awesome it is.

It's not a bad game but the face that EVERYONE is playing this little indie game at the same time is a bit suspect. Game Grumps tends not to do just released games unless they are paid same with Continue (and the fact that Continue did their first ever 2 part episdode)

It's pretty clear that Shovel knights marketing budget has all gone to this.

oh and in no way is Shovel Knight a high profile game. It's an indie game... that's it really


Look at this way when was the last time all these youtube channels happened to do the same game at the same time?

Edit; Don't get me wrong i'm not saying "ERRRR THEY SOLD OUT" or anything like that i just find it funny when marketing is so obvious. I mean hell give me $5 and Ill play your game on youtube and rave about it. Shovel Knight is a good game its just funny is all
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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Normally I don't comment on ZP since I figure that it'll get lost in all the slurry, but I felt like posting in response to that niggle that Yahtzee pointed-out:

Yes, bottomless pits are just as good of an instant-death mechanic as spikes are when you have the spikes at the very bottom of the screen. However, what you cannot do with a bottomless pit is create a narrow path that needs to be jumped through, or a wall of death that needs to be avoided. Spikes are basically a mechanic that lets the level designer say "Don't go here or you die" in a manner that offers more flexibility than putting a bunch of pits all over the level.

As such, I would argue that they are just as valid here as they were in Mega Man where the spikes gained their infamy.
 

Machine Man 1992

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Thanatos2k said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
PS1 onward was 3D. We want 2D.

I too hate the crusade to flee back to the NES, because the NES wasn't the pinnacle - the SNES was. When you make the decision to use pixel art instead of 3D - I expect at a MINIMUM that the graphics look SNES quality. These intentionally bad NES-caliber (or WORSE!) pixel graphics are just lazy.
Indeed. SNES graphics are the shit, even by today's standards. Nice, clean, colorful, and detailed (ideally).

And then there's 2.5D graphics; I for one, actually like the freaky effect they create.
 

Scow2

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Ephidel said:
Anyway, just a bit strange to think that "the industry" (< I hate that term) has changed so much and yet the insular Japanese developers are still failing to listen to any outside input after nearly 30 friggin' years. I mean, take Nintendo and "localisation" for example. We should have worldwide release dates by now, or at least release "weeks" where everyone gets a game within a few days of one another. Taking months for localisation is just a BS carryover relic of a practice that should be long dead by now.
Localization requires time. Worldwide release dates merely means they're holding off on releasing a finished product until the slowest localization teams finish, as opposed to releasing the game when it's done where it's done, and not holding back releases for unrelated development cycles.
 

Muspelheim

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Beat it down, Sir? Alright, the usual routine. Allow me to fetch the sunday mallet, Sir.

I wonder what would be a nostalgia product for me. Probably some high-res re-release (rererererere...) of Operation Flashpoint or somesuch.
 

step1999

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Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
Have you played the Rise of the Triad remake? It's a really good 90's style shooter that came out last year
 

Lotet

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bobdole1979 said:
Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.
 

KoudelkaMorgan

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How in the hell did no reference to THIS not find its way into the review? I was waiting for it, but sadly it never came.

 

bobdole1979

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Lotet said:
bobdole1979 said:
Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.
i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.


I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.
 

Machine Man 1992

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step1999 said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
Have you played the Rise of the Triad remake? It's a really good 90's style shooter that came out last year
Do I have to get it off steam? Because my computer can't handle half the shit that get released nowadays.
 

Bunni

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Complaining about uninteresting indie titles when Transistor came out two months ago and you completely ignored it.

I'm in pain.
 

step1999

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Machine Man 1992 said:
step1999 said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
Have you played the Rise of the Triad remake? It's a really good 90's style shooter that came out last year
Do I have to get it off steam? Because my computer can't handle half the shit that get released nowadays.
Yeah, it's from steam. It was on sale for £2.00 a few days ago. I hear some other players have performance issues with it, although it runs fine for me. Captcha: string along
 

Lotet

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bobdole1979 said:
Lotet said:
bobdole1979 said:
Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.
i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.


I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.
Well, with the Continue guys at least, one of them was just friends with one of the developers and got a free copy.

In the case of Game Grumps, you might already know that Egoraptor likes the old classics. As seen with sequalitis. He says he was anticipating the release of the game. That sounds appropriate.

Yatzee gave his reason.
 
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bobdole1979 said:
i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.


I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.
Well, to be fair, it's possible they all backed it on Kickstarter so they were all hyped to play it long before release, and they all jumped on it as soon as it was out. I know my youtube video making friend did just that.
 

PMAvers

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Lotet said:
bobdole1979 said:
Lotet said:
bobdole1979 said:
Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.
i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.


I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.
Well, with the Continue guys at least, one of them was just friends with one of the developers and got a free copy.

In the case of Game Grumps, you might already know that Egoraptor likes the old classics. As seen with sequalitis. He says he was anticipating the release of the game. That sounds appropriate.
Arin was a kickstarter backer of it as well.

Back to the spikes bit, I actually havn't had much of a problem with them due to the game giving you that phase bracelet early on in the game. If it looks like you're going to hit a spike, use it and you can walk on them while the effect lasts. Usually plenty of time to get another jump off to safety.
 

KoudelkaMorgan

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I'll leave this awesomeness here, for Shovelry.


Also getting really sick of there always being one guy that says that anyone praising this game is getting cash enemas. Its a new game, its doing well, and its a great game amidst so many craptacular ones that have come from kickstarter/pride themselves on being nostalgia bait.

So you are probably gonna see people review it/LPing it. Do you throw a similar rustled jimmy jamboree when Dark Souls 2 came out and every one was playing that too?
 

ZZoMBiE13

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Evonisia said:
ZZoMBiE13 said:
Clowndoe said:
ZZoMBiE13 said:
Wow. Yahtzee likes Red Dwarf. Good to know!
British comedy is practically half the air-time on his weekly Youtube show.
I wasn't aware that he did a weekly YouTube show. All kinds of new information today.
Look for "Let's Drown Out", and you'll notice that Yahtzee has been slowly dragging points he made there into Zero Punctuation. Not a bad thing, just something to pick up on.
Cool, I'll look for it.

Thank you. :)
 

bobdole1979

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Lotet said:
bobdole1979 said:
Lotet said:
bobdole1979 said:
Wait, you were serious when you made the original comment?

I played and finished Shovel Knight within the first few days of its release. It just tries to do what the old games did well. There's a reason people liked those old games mate.
i'm not saying its not a good game i'm saying that when almost every youtuber out there who does videos of them playing OLD games all of a sudden decide to play the same exact game in the same week its kind of obvious what is happening here.


I never said it wasn't a good game or it doesn't do what it does well. Just that the developer spent a LOT of money on a viral marketing of sorts.
Well, with the Continue guys at least, one of them was just friends with one of the developers and got a free copy.

In the case of Game Grumps, you might already know that Egoraptor likes the old classics. As seen with sequalitis. He says he was anticipating the release of the game. That sounds appropriate.

Yatzee gave his reason.
yes Yatze gave his "reason" I have no doubt that Contiunie and Game Grumps have met the developers and are friends with them. That doesn't mean for a second they haven't been paid to advertise it

I haven't been watching Twitch but i'm willing to bet some of the big twitch players were playing it as well.

This is the new way of marketing to gamers and you are going to see more and more of it.
 

bobdole1979

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KoudelkaMorgan said:
I'll leave this awesomeness here, for Shovelry.


Also getting really sick of there always being one guy that says that anyone praising this game is getting cash enemas. Its a new game, its doing well, and its a great game amidst so many craptacular ones that have come from kickstarter/pride themselves on being nostalgia bait.

So you are probably gonna see people review it/LPing it. Do you throw a similar rustled jimmy jamboree when Dark Souls 2 came out and every one was playing that too?
you completley missed the point. There is nothing wrong with marketing a game this way it's also how the youtubers and twitch players make a living.

When you have Youtubers such as Continue and Game grumps who very rarely do new games when they are released it's usually a sign they made some cash off of it. Like I said its not wrong and Shovel Knight is a Good Game (SEE I"M PRAISING THE GAME) it's just obvious.

this is going to be the new way of marketing for gamers especially when it comes to indie games.

Think of it this way Companies pay a LOT of money to put their products in movies.. Does that make the movie bad? no of course not.

Shovel Knight paid youtubers to play their game/review it. Does that make the game bad? No it doesn't.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Frozen Grandparents Tetris? Why has no one thought of that before Yahtzee did for one and two, can we get a Kickstarter for that going?
 

superguin200

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I've also been playing the old Castlevania games on DS. I haven't encountered the Treant soul thing yet though, so I'm guessing it isn't in Dawn of Sorrow (the only one I've played to near-completion).
 

9of9

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So... how about a Transistor review? ^^ Maybe a Transistor/Abyss Odyssey twofer?
 

VyseRogueKing

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bobdole1979 said:
you completley missed the point. There is nothing wrong with marketing a game this way it's also how the youtubers and twitch players make a living.

When you have Youtubers such as Continue and Game grumps who very rarely do new games when they are released it's usually a sign they made some cash off of it. Like I said its not wrong and Shovel Knight is a Good Game (SEE I"M PRAISING THE GAME) it's just obvious.

this is going to be the new way of marketing for gamers especially when it comes to indie games.

Think of it this way Companies pay a LOT of money to put their products in movies.. Does that make the movie bad? no of course not.

Shovel Knight paid youtubers to play their game/review it. Does that make the game bad? No it doesn't.
Ugh... I hate people who say things like this. Because what you are saying is mere speculation and borderlines on conspiracy theorist. You have no proof that any of these people were paid by the publisher to review it. Nor do I that says otherwise but the basis of "OMG everyone is playing it, therefore they must be paid to be doing it" is an incredibly strange conclusion. At most it's because the game is a hotcake, people WANT to see it. Therefore, the producers of content are meeting that interest. THAT'S how youtubers and twitch players make a living.

You also should know that this is an indie game. They don't have a budget to pay people willy-nilly. Even if they had leftover kickstarter money. The best they can do is give demos out to garner interest. This "new way of marketing" is hardly even feasible to the indie scene.

When new games come out that are actually good, people play them. It's simple as that. There may be a bunch of let's plays on Shovel Knight but all of them being paid by the publisher/dev makes that even less likely.

Not only that but saying they are getting paid to review games the way that you are is not good. It's dragging their reputation through the mud. If you say someone was doing something but was paid to do so you immediately start questioning their motive and their reliability. The quality of the game takes a backseat to these damning claims. Plus it also makes the devs look shady. It's a dick move, bro.
 

Sotanaht

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FightingFurball said:
How about Divinity: Original Sin for the next review?
That's what I was hoping for, but this review doesn't even give the impression that he could be aware of its existence.
 

Slegiar Dryke

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Thunderous Cacophony said:
I'd argue that it's not nostalgia to like old things if the old things are doing stuff you want that new things don't. How many people still play old editions of D&D and Traveler because they provide the gameplay they want? Video games have less of that because remaking old games is usually fairly simple, but the sheer number of remakes that are little more than HD upgrades show that there are some things that are respected for quality rather than age.
I quite highly agree with this. There's very few games these days I'm willing to get because so many are pushing for whats "IN" and cool right now, and a lot of that stuff may be good for the wow factor, but its not always fun. So I'm finding myself more often replaying things like old gamecube games, or browsing my ps2 collection, etc.


bobdole1979 said:
heaven forbid people play a game that was kickstarted and looked interesting and actually came out. I get the whole "lol paid off, 's "obvious" " stance......but even if some people aren't interested.........landscapes kinda barren right now, cause "marketing" says summer doesn't work. so what are bored reviewers and LPers gonna do? *shrugs*
 

NerfedFalcon

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When I recently bought myself a PS3, one of the first things I picked up for it was the HD collection boxes of the Big Three from the PS2, on the grounds that I never owned a PS2 as a kid and wanted to make up for lost time. And I have no shame at all in saying that the original Sly Cooper was pretty damn mediocre, but Sly 2 is probably one of the best stealth games I've ever played. It's a great example of how to expand on a game in the sequel without bloating it,[footnote]See also Devil May Cry 3, one of the best action games of all time.[/footnote] though with the current method of making sequels being 'hold stuff back for DLC', even a bloated sequel like Jak 2 feels better than most other recent games.

So no, I'd say that it's entirely possible to like old things without just being nostalgic.
 

bobdole1979

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Slegiar Dryke said:
bobdole1979 said:
heaven forbid people play a game that was kickstarted and looked interesting and actually came out. I get the whole "lol paid off, 's "obvious" " stance......but even if some people aren't interested.........landscapes kinda barren right now, cause "marketing" says summer doesn't work. so what are bored reviewers and LPers gonna do? *shrugs*
did you seriously not even read what i wrote? or are you actually saying that several major youtubers who only play old games suddently all decided at the same time to play the same game at the same time something they havent done before?

how do you think that Gamegrumps make most of their money? Why do you think Disney bought them? They are a marketing tool.

Or are you suggesting this is the first ever Kickstarted game that was really good and everyone just wants to play it at the same time even though they have never done anything like it before.... well except when they were paid to like Gamegrumps playing World of Planes...

IT"S OK TO DO THIS. Like i said you will see this happening more and more often with twitch streamers ( you don't think Totalbiscut played all those games because he liked them) and youtubers

But please tell me what the last game Gamegrumps played on the day it came out?

Unless you personally feel that it is wrong then the issue is with you.
 

VyseRogueKing

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bobdole1979 said:
Why do you think Disney bought them? They are a marketing tool.
...What?

bobdole1979 said:
hold on are you actually saying that Gamegrumps and twitch streamers DON"T take money from companies to play their games on release????
Wow... way to address literally none of my points. Especially when one of the first things I said is that NEITHER of us can know one way or the other unless definitive evidence is brought forth. The evidence you use is shaky. This tells me one of 2 things.

1) You are so set in your stance that you infallibly believe that people all get paid behind everyone's backs without a shred of information backing it besides speculation. Completely disregarding any and all points to the contrary. This, I believe, is not the case.

2) The more likely, since I don't think someone could be that thick, is that you are trolling. Big time. This again can be seen through your bizarre points and blanketing everyone with the same argument regardless of whether or not them playing is a coincidence. Plus that "Disney bought them" is a huge red light. You are willing to drag people's professional reputations through the mud just to incite the masses and that's not cool.

Good day, sir.
 

bobdole1979

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VyseRogueKing said:
bobdole1979 said:
Why do you think Disney bought them? They are a marketing tool.
...What?
ummm you don't even know that Disney bought the Game Grumps... seriouly? wow if you don't even know that then you shouldn't be in this conversation.
 

Enlong

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"Grind for the Treant soul"? Oh dear. Yeah, soul-grinding in [X] of Sorrow is a miserable business indeed. I recall Treant being a particularly nasty one, as the game doesn't like the idea of you getting your magic back easily.
 

VyseRogueKing

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bobdole1979 said:
VyseRogueKing said:
bobdole1979 said:
Why do you think Disney bought them? They are a marketing tool.
...What?
ummm you don't even know that Disney bought the Game Grumps... seriouly? wow if you don't even know that then you shouldn't be in this conversation.
No "what" as in they didn't buy Game Grumps. They bought the company they have a contract with. That literally changes nothing about them. A contract doesn't change when the owner is bought out. It may be open for review or maybe even cut off but it won't be changed outright. Maybe I should have specified.

But thanks for ignoring the entirety of my post for one word when the issue is not about Game Grumps in particular. That furthers my point that you be trollin' and I seriously shouldn't have even bothered with this post to humor you.
 

Darth_Payn

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Silentpony said:
OH GOD!
Can the miffed trifle please be a reoccurring bit?!
That face was absolutely hysterical! I'd buy a t-shirt with that little guy and the text "I'm a trifle miffed!"
YES!!! That, Gandalf crapping out potions, the cat wearing a Bane mask, the knight's head popping off from just touching a spike, today's episode had so much hilarious imagery! i would also like to see more "Pixelated Yahtzee" in the future.

captcha: Faster Internet
Faster, Internet. Faster! Bring me more time-wasting goodies!
 

chozo_hybrid

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I want it for my Wii-U but it's not out here yet >_<

It looks really fun and I haven't played a game like it for a good while.
 

bobdole1979

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VyseRogueKing said:
bobdole1979 said:
VyseRogueKing said:
bobdole1979 said:
Why do you think Disney bought them? They are a marketing tool.
...What?
ummm you don't even know that Disney bought the Game Grumps... seriouly? wow if you don't even know that then you shouldn't be in this conversation.
No "what" as in they didn't buy Game Grumps. They bought the company they have a contract with. That literally changes nothing about them. A contract doesn't change when the owner is bought out. It may be open for review or maybe even cut off but it won't be changed outright. Maybe I should have specified.

But thanks for ignoring the entirety of my post for one word when the issue is not about Game Grumps in particular. That furthers my point that you be trollin' and I seriously shouldn't have even bothered with this post to humor you.
yes I did ignore your "points" because there is a much bigger issue here that you lack a basic understanding of how things work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcOEA3fJ390

yeah Disney did BUY game grumps. But hey don't take my word for it. As soon as you acknowledge reality I can move on to your "points"
 

IrisNetwork

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I was actually thinking about this game. I guess I'll go get it now.

With your powers combined, I am SHOVEL KNIGHT!
Reminds me of Cave Story.
 

Roger

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Was I the only constantly getting a trifle miffed over Yahtzee's thorn in the side of "NES can't parallax scroll"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltuRuGM271Q

I don't know how Shovel Knight does it, but the NES could totally Parallax.
 

Grahav

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Bought it. Looks fun, I just have to find a controller that is compatible with the damn pc version.
 

Two-A

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bobdole1979 said:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.
Not really, the game just had the luxury of being a relatively new (and actually finished) indie game released during the summer game drought.
 

bobdole1979

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Two-A said:
bobdole1979 said:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.
Not really, the game just had the luxury of being a relatively new (and actually finished) indie game released during the summer game drought.
and you think that explains why shows like Game Grumps and Continue? who don't play new games unless they sponsor them are playing this?
you understand that summer drought is meaningless to Gamegrumps an dContinue right?

I can't think of a single time Continue played a game on a current gen system can you?
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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"Is it still nostalgia if you replay old games not to relive happier memories long past, but because old stuff does stuff ya want that new stuff doesn't do?"

It isn't. Heck, that's actually a lot of the basis for so-called "nostalgia fanboys": they find that newer stuff isn't really scratching a particular gameplay itch. For instance, the Metroidvanias I play NOT because I grew up with them but because they really give a sense of exploration I feel that too many games lack these days, including the so-called "sandboxes" that can best be described as dropping the player into and then knocking off for lunch or just making the overworld a boring, tedious commute instead of a living, breathing setting where you can get familiar with it and learn your way around.

Another is Mario due to the fact that "AAA" gaming seems to have nothing but contempt for the platformer genre, whether 2D or 3D. Heck, Nintendo as a whole can count as that; RPGs with rich worlds to explore, platformers that offer amazing level design, action games with a sense of accomplishment and thrill, adventures that truly feel like you're on a journey, stuff like that. Most of the games that are hyped nowadays turn out to be disposable; you have fun for a few hours, but you forget about what you did as soon as you're finished. That's not how gaming should be.

Furthermore, the comment about release cycles due to graphics I find to be a false argument. If anything dev cycles aren't long ENOUGH, it's why so many games seem to be getting more and more homogenized and disposable. They aren't special or eventful as they used to be, unlike something that comes out only once in a generation such as Zelda, Mario, Fire Emblem, Shin Megami Tensei, Persona, Metroid, Mario Kart, etc; a game that comes out every now and again as opposed to yearly or bi-yearly is going to be more special and interesting. It's unfortunately going to take something shocking for developers to realize that
 

Enlong

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bobdole1979 said:
Two-A said:
bobdole1979 said:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.
Not really, the game just had the luxury of being a relatively new (and actually finished) indie game released during the summer game drought.
and you think that explains why shows like Game Grumps and Continue? who don't play new games unless they sponsor them are playing this?
you understand that summer drought is meaningless to Gamegrumps an dContinue right?

I can't think of a single time Continue played a game on a current gen system can you?
Continue? plays games mostly from the NES era. Shovel Knight is styled as a game from the NES era.
 

bobdole1979

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Enlong said:
bobdole1979 said:
Two-A said:
bobdole1979 said:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.
Not really, the game just had the luxury of being a relatively new (and actually finished) indie game released during the summer game drought.
and you think that explains why shows like Game Grumps and Continue? who don't play new games unless they sponsor them are playing this?
you understand that summer drought is meaningless to Gamegrumps an dContinue right?

I can't think of a single time Continue played a game on a current gen system can you?
Continue? plays games mostly from the NES era. Shovel Knight is styled as a game from the NES era.
Tell me how many games have they ever played brand new? Answer? Just 1 shovel knight.

There are plenty of indie games that are NES like but they don't play them why do you think that is? Also why is it this was their only 2 part episode?
 

oldtaku

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There are words for 'nostalgia for something you've never experienced'. They're in other languages of course, spoken by more depressed people. *Sehnsucht* is probably the best: 'Sehnsucht represents thoughts and feelings about all facets of life that are unfinished or imperfect, paired with a yearning for ideal alternative experiences.' http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sehnsucht

Damned if that doesn't cover it perfectly.
 

Enlong

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bobdole1979 said:
Enlong said:
bobdole1979 said:
Two-A said:
bobdole1979 said:
wow Shovelknight has paid everyone haha. I didn't know Yatzee did paid reviews but ok. Not very sudbtle when Continue? GameGrumps, Yatzee and everyone else reviews the same game at the same time.
Not really, the game just had the luxury of being a relatively new (and actually finished) indie game released during the summer game drought.
and you think that explains why shows like Game Grumps and Continue? who don't play new games unless they sponsor them are playing this?
you understand that summer drought is meaningless to Gamegrumps an dContinue right?

I can't think of a single time Continue played a game on a current gen system can you?
Continue? plays games mostly from the NES era. Shovel Knight is styled as a game from the NES era.
Tell me how many games have they ever played brand new? Answer? Just 1 shovel knight.

There are plenty of indie games that are NES like but they don't play them why do you think that is? Also why is it this was their only 2 part episode?
Well, they played it 'cause Yacht Club sent it in, much like most of the games they play. I suppose if someone gifted them a copy of Rogue Legacy, or FTL or something, it could appear. And they seem to have liked it a lot, hence the 2-parter.

I wonder if this will set a precedent for them deciding to two-part other games they really want to continue. Could be cool.
 

Veylon

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Roger said:
Was I the only constantly getting a trifle miffed over Yahtzee's thorn in the side of "NES can't parallax scroll"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltuRuGM271Q

I don't know how Shovel Knight does it, but the NES could totally Parallax.
It depends on how you define Parallax, lest we get down to semantics.

Shovel Knight parallaxes in a particular way that the NES couldn't. In all of the examples shown in the video, the parallaxing tiles do not intrude on the non-parllaxing tiles. Either they have their own height to scroll separately on, or the (system-imposed) blockiness of the foreground tiles is hidden with careful color selection and/or shadowing. Except in the case of Megaman 3, in which the "parallaxing" starscape was accomplished using sprites that, being sprites, were even in front of the landscape.

In shovel knight, there are multiple layers of parallaxing on top of each other and using non-block boundaries. Both of these things would be impossible on the NES, though clever programmers of that era could've managed something similar by sectioning off different horizontal bands for different levels of parallaxing, as seen in the Ninja Gaiden 3 section of the video, which has foreground as well as background parallax scrolling.

It's more of a technical nitpick than anything else and even standard-bearers Megaman 9 & 10 had the occasional miss in fidelity on that front. Skipping out on a technical limitation that a great amount of work was spent disguising - to the point of it occasionally forgotten that it even existed - is hardly a black mark in my book. It'd be like docking points for when too many sprites are on the same scanline and not imposing flicker or slowdown.
 

Lotet

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bobdole1979 said:
yes I did ignore your "points" because there is a much bigger issue here that you lack a basic understanding of how things work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcOEA3fJ390

yeah Disney did BUY game grumps. But hey don't take my word for it. As soon as you acknowledge reality I can move on to your "points"
Can I acknowledge it for him? Please? Could you address his points now?

bobdole1979 said:
But please tell me what the last game Gamegrumps played on the day it came out?
Shovel Knight
Release Date: 27 Jun 2014
Shovel Knight: Dragon Fart Facts - PART 1 - Game Grumps
Published on Jul 12, 2014

The Stomping Land Release
Date: 31 May 2014
The Stomping Land: Beware of Dinosaurs - PART 1 - Steam Train
Published on Jun 13, 2014

DreadOut
Release Date: 16 May 2014
DreadOut: The Longest Road - PART 1 - Steam Train
Published on May 31, 2014

Wind Waker HD
October 4, 2013
Wind Waker HD: At the Outset - PART 1 - Game Grumps
Published on Nov 1, 2013

Okay, now what? I don't see how the argument changes in any way.
 

Sledgimus

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bobdole1979, let's cut to the chase: you've made an allegation. Do you have any proof to back it up? Not hints, not "Well, why else would they do this?" questions, actual proof. I'm going to guess the answer is "no," because what you're alleging is ridiculous.
 

Ephidel

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Scow2 said:
Localization requires time. Worldwide release dates merely means they're holding off on releasing a finished product until the slowest localization teams finish, as opposed to releasing the game when it's done where it's done, and not holding back releases for unrelated development cycles.
Which is a fair principle to abide by when your audience is a worldwide thing.

Regarding anything competitive, unequal release dates cause certain territories to irreparably "fall behind" everyone else, which gives the territories who got it earlier an unfair advantage.

Furthermore, like I mentioned earlier, gaming serves a worldwide audience. If Microsoft can "get it right" (barring actual consoles getting released) so easily, but super-billionaire legendary gaming corporation Nintendo STILL cannot get it right after 30 years, then there's something seriously wrong about the situation.

"Released when it's ready" should apply to the whole world, not just the specific market that the developers or publishers hail from.
 

bobdole1979

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Lotet said:
bobdole1979 said:
yes I did ignore your "points" because there is a much bigger issue here that you lack a basic understanding of how things work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcOEA3fJ390

yeah Disney did BUY game grumps. But hey don't take my word for it. As soon as you acknowledge reality I can move on to your "points"
Can I acknowledge it for him? Please? Could you address his points now?

bobdole1979 said:
But please tell me what the last game Gamegrumps played on the day it came out?
Shovel Knight
Release Date: 27 Jun 2014
Shovel Knight: Dragon Fart Facts - PART 1 - Game Grumps
Published on Jul 12, 2014

The Stomping Land Release
Date: 31 May 2014
The Stomping Land: Beware of Dinosaurs - PART 1 - Steam Train
Published on Jun 13, 2014

DreadOut
Release Date: 16 May 2014
DreadOut: The Longest Road - PART 1 - Steam Train
Published on May 31, 2014

Wind Waker HD
October 4, 2013
Wind Waker HD: At the Outset - PART 1 - Game Grumps
Published on Nov 1, 2013

Okay, now what? I don't see how the argument changes in any way.
are you arguing that Disney bought Gamegrumps? If not yeah i can have the conversation with you

Only 2 of those games are Gamegrumps the other 2 are Steam train. But yes Gamegrumps has done paid episdoes several times before such as for World of Warplanes, ESJ, Pacific Rim and others.

But look at that 4 games in 1 year. At 3 episodes a day that's 1095 episdoes... how many of those are the new games? Wind Waker was a lot of episodes, but the other 3 games... kind of see the point there? New games isn't something they do often on Gamegrumps

as for the other guys "points"

Shovelknights kickstarter goal was $70k. They made $300k (good for them) so money wasn't an issue.


the best they can do is give demos out to garner interest. This "new way of marketing" is hardly even feasible to the indie scene.
this is pretty stupid and I hope you won't stand by it. The most succesful indie games of the past few years Braid, Supermeatboy, and others all got their biggest boost in marketing by youtube. The day they came out people were raving about the game on youtube. in fact Souljaboy famously made a youtube video of himself raving about Braid which caused a spike in game sales.

Word of mouth advertising is far better then reviews, or even demos. Referrals is sort of the golden egg of marketing. Finding someone who enjoys your product and actively encourages others to try is a huge deal.

Now i'm not saying they spent $10,000 on each youtuber.

and about demos well.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QM6LoaqEnY


When new games come out that are actually good, people play them. It's simple as that. There may be a bunch of let's plays on Shovel Knight but all of them being paid by the publisher/dev makes that even less likely.
i agree people will play good games. The issue is that its being played by people who don't play new games on their channel. Continue has never played a new game.... ever let alone do a 2 part episode on the day the game was released.

We know Gamegrumps does sponsored games as they have done it before.
 

Thanatos2k

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Is this guy with the conspiracy nonsense for real? He can't seriously believe this tripe.....can he?
 

DanHibiki

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step1999 said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
Have you played the Rise of the Triad remake? It's a really good 90's style shooter that came out last year
No it's not...
It's bad.

Shadow Warrior reboot however was amazing. Play that instead!
 

bobdole1979

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Thanatos2k said:
Is this guy with the conspiracy nonsense for real? He can't seriously believe this tripe.....can he?
are you saying advertising is a conspiracy? You do know developers do this right? Pay youtubers and twitch players to play their game right? Like this isn't some big secret.
 

step1999

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DanHibiki said:
step1999 said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
What always irritated me about the current state of the industry (ooh look at me jumping on commentator vocabulary bandwagon) is that as soon as new games stopping doing things we liked, the first instinct was to ditch EVERYTHING and go back to the NES. To paraphrase Yahtzee, "What has been the point of the last thirty years of game development and evolution if you're just going to remake [insert ol skool title here] again?"

So, are publishers and their development fuckpuppets to blame or have the people who complained the loudest about how "games these days suck" just no realized yet that they've become obsolete?

What I want is a return to 90's FPS's, where you carry twelve guns and run around huge, non-linear maze levels looking for the exit. You know, DOOM! Brutal Doom is a step in the right direction, but imagine how good it would look on the Unreal 3 engine. Or what about a console space shooter, like Wing Commander, or Starlancer (Christ, I loved that game.)? Or hell, even Tachyon:the Fringe?

Has everything from the PS2 onward been for nought!?
Have you played the Rise of the Triad remake? It's a really good 90's style shooter that came out last year
No it's not...
It's bad.

Shadow Warrior reboot however was amazing. Play that instead!
It's just a matter of opinion. I love both games, but I didn't mention SW2013 because it's more first person slasher than first person shooter imo.
 

Hutzpah Chicken

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I never cared for the NES, mainly because I had a Sega Genesis when I was young. With that said, I agree that running back to the 8-bit era is silly. The 16-bit era gives a better feel for me, but the whole idea of 8-bit is to appeal to the kids from the late 80's.

Shovel Knight looks like a good time so I'll probably pick it up when it's a dollar on Steam. If Super Amazing Wagon Adventure was enjoyable, maybe this will be too.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Enlong said:
"Grind for the Treant soul"? Oh dear. Yeah, soul-grinding in [X] of Sorrow is a miserable business indeed. I recall Treant being a particularly nasty one, as the game doesn't like the idea of you getting your magic back easily.
Uratoh said:
Oh that treant soul...

And I'll agree, the magic spell items in the game really are overkill...the game's quite beatable without them (and nets you an achievement for doing so), but several sections are a LOT harder, especially without the 'briefly become completely intangible and invulnerable to all damage' and the 'dash forward at high speeds in mid air' spells.

Now I'm kind of curious which of the DSvania games Yahtzee likes best...knowing him, my best guess would be Ecclesia, since while it has flaws, it doesn't reek of unfufilled potential like Ruin (though Ruin has some great stages) and doesn't have Dawn of Sorrow's 'use contrived stylus gimick to kill boss or you have to fight it again' thing.
Quoted, for being the only people I now know who seem to have played Dawn of Sorrow and got the Treant soul. I mean, it could be worse, you could be going for the Iron Golem Soul... or the Final Guard Soul... or the Arc Demon Soul... or the Great Axe Armor Soul... or pretty much any 3-rarity soul.

Also, I'd agree with Order of Ecclesia. And on Hard Mode. Seriously, when I realized I could use the Zombie as a literal meatshield against the Bone Pillars' rapid-kill projectiles in Skeleton Cave, or against the constant stream of bats in Ruvas Forest, I knew this was the best of Castlevania: it had the difficulty of the NES games, and the (eventual) non-linearity of the Metroidvanias, and even the linear stages- like Dark Souls- rewarded exploration with rewards; quest items, healing items, and new glyphs.

And Ecclesia has the best hard mode, too. Yeah, on Normal you can simply just overpower enemies with enough dodging and timing, and with Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin they only cranked dodging skill requirements up to 11 and boosted enemy stats, but Ecclesia forces you to actually THINK about how you can use your resources creatively, efficiently, and strategically if you're even going to survive through the level in one piece.

Which again makes me wish Konami renders the entire Lords of Shadow staff jobless and begs Koji Igarashi back for the next Castlevania game. Oh, and if they had the person who even came up with the idea of Lords of Shadow commit public seppuku for the last 4 years, that'd be a nice touch, too.

EDIT: On second thought, Igarashi will probably never go back to Konami. Here's to Chasm and funding whatever Kickstarter Igarashi can set up.
 

Uratoh

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Grenge Di Origin said:
Also, I'd agree with Order of Ecclesia. And on Hard Mode.
You ever try what I called 'Heaven or Hell Mode' (after the DMC mode)? It's Hard Mode, with your character maxed out, but you *MUST* have a Death Ring equipped for the entire playthrough of the game. Bosses are by and large a joke, with Eligor and the Giant Enemy Crab being notable exceptions, but merely navigating the stages becomes an incredible challenge. I got so much more use out of Robo-Noa than I ever thought I would beating the game like that.
 

Roger

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Veylon said:
Roger said:
Was I the only constantly getting a trifle miffed over Yahtzee's thorn in the side of "NES can't parallax scroll"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltuRuGM271Q

I don't know how Shovel Knight does it, but the NES could totally Parallax.
It depends on how you define Parallax, lest we get down to semantics.

Shovel Knight parallaxes in a particular way that the NES couldn't. In all of the examples shown in the video, the parallaxing tiles do not intrude on the non-parllaxing tiles. Either they have their own height to scroll separately on, or the (system-imposed) blockiness of the foreground tiles is hidden with careful color selection and/or shadowing. Except in the case of Megaman 3, in which the "parallaxing" starscape was accomplished using sprites that, being sprites, were even in front of the landscape.

In shovel knight, there are multiple layers of parallaxing on top of each other and using non-block boundaries. Both of these things would be impossible on the NES, though clever programmers of that era could've managed something similar by sectioning off different horizontal bands for different levels of parallaxing, as seen in the Ninja Gaiden 3 section of the video, which has foreground as well as background parallax scrolling.

It's more of a technical nitpick than anything else and even standard-bearers Megaman 9 & 10 had the occasional miss in fidelity on that front. Skipping out on a technical limitation that a great amount of work was spent disguising - to the point of it occasionally forgotten that it even existed - is hardly a black mark in my book. It'd be like docking points for when too many sprites are on the same scanline and not imposing flicker or slowdown.
Fair enough. I hadn't seen what Shovel Knight's look was.
 

Lunar Templar

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Uratoh said:
Oh that treant soul...

And I'll agree, the magic spell items in the game really are overkill...the game's quite beatable without them (and nets you an achievement for doing so), but several sections are a LOT harder, especially without the 'briefly become completely intangible and invulnerable to all damage' and the 'dash forward at high speeds in mid air' spells.

Now I'm kind of curious which of the DSvania games Yahtzee likes best...knowing him, my best guess would be Ecclesia, since while it has flaws, it doesn't reek of unfufilled potential like Ruin (though Ruin has some great stages) and doesn't have Dawn of Sorrow's 'use contrived stylus gimick to kill boss or you have to fight it again' thing.
Since he's soul hunting probably Dawn of Sorrow, or Aria of Sorrow if he's gotta GBA compatible DS.


OT:

THANK YOU. Thats exactly why I favor 'retro' games over most AAA games. They are doing the things I want.
 

Veylon

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Roger said:
Fair enough. I hadn't seen what Shovel Knight's look was.
The "look" is a bit more SNES or Genesis or maybe even pre-Windows 95 DOS, or at least that initial outdoor level gave that impression. It does adhere to the four-color palette rule of the NES, though - which is something most allegedly 8-bit games pass on - "cheating" only with sprites, which is something that's been done on the original hardware via layering, most notably with Megaman. Beyond that, it's something that the NES hardware could've managed.
 

orangeapples

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I just want to say, bobdole1979 totally made this whole thread. Sure typically people will talk about Yahtzee's "review" or the game itself, but bobdole1979 took this to a whole nother level.
 

Cabamacadaf

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bobdole1979 said:
Egoraptor donated a lot of money to the Shovel Knight kickstarter, he's friends with the composer of the game, and they played the demo on the show long before the game itself came out. I'm pretty sure they weren't paid by Yacht Club Games to play it, especially since he donated so much money to them, it wouldn't make sense if he was then paid in return to play it. They might be playing it as a favour to them, but I think he just likes the game a lot.
 

thy beachwear zones

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I just don't see how a knight charging into battle with a shovel is interesting. And from what I've seen, it isn't really used in a shovelly way (to dig holes, to bury things, to knock people out with a shovel to the back of the head, whatever) which just makes it worse. I challenged myself to think of a better thing for him to carry, and succeeded within 60 seconds (a gun that fell through a time portal, which he uses as a club).
 

TheZaius

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IS there a Knighty Knight in this game? He wears a nightcap and fights you with a pillow.