Zero Punctuation: The Last of Us

[EXos]

I think it's time for Mailbag Showdown 2!

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/37-Mailbag-Showdown

In short, GO TEAM RETARD!

This could be very interesting. ^^

I'm actually looking forward to a possible response.

 

[Yahtzee Croshaw]

I think it's time for Mailbag Showdown 2!

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/37-Mailbag-Showdown

In short, GO TEAM RETARD!

This could be very interesting. ^^

I'm actually looking forward to a possible response.

hmm I don't think I'd like it...
I mean, he won't reconsider, he can't...
So it's simply going to become a "follower bashing" episode.
I didn't like it when he did it back in the day, and I don't even like SSB ( I agree with a lot of his observations about the game ). That said, I suppose I would like him to show some awareness about the disappointment several ZP viewers, but somehow I don't think that will make a big difference.

 

[EXos]

This could be very interesting. ^^

I'm actually looking forward to a possible response.

hmm I don't think I'd like it...
I mean, he won't reconsider, he can't...
So it's simply going to become a "follower bashing" episode.
I didn't like it when he did it back in the day, and I don't even like SSB ( I agree with a lot of his observations about the game ). That said, I suppose I would like him to show some awareness about the disappointment several ZP viewers, but somehow I don't think that will make a big difference.

Well to be honest seeing the amount of projecting that has been going on; how he's not a serious reviewer but a entertainer or even the accusation that he didn't play the game! Those people deserve a good bashing.

I've liked several games that yahtzee annihilated but I don't mind. I know I enjoyed it, like the Witcher.
So if you can't stand a negative review of your new favourite game then just put it past while playing it and wait for next week.
On the flip side I have bought some games according to his reviews like Just Cause 2.
Yahtzee is a good reviewer and unlike most "mainstream" reviewers he will go against popular releases. I've read plenty that would never cross a AAA-publisher.

To all those people, you included, that think that your opinion is the correct one. Suck it up buttercup.

 

[[REDACTED]]

Yahtzee is just frustrated because he is cursed with the ability to imagine better games. Or that he has to keep reviewing awful games as a career. He literally has the worst job I can possibly imagine for myself. I would rather do anything than have to play these games for a living, much less say anything about them in public. I'd rather be in prison.

If you disagree with him, you just have low standards. He is right on the mark.

Says somebody who's already admitted to not having played the fucking game yet. How do you know if he's right on the mark? Oh yeah, you don't. Come back when you've actually played the game and actually have an informed opinion rather than just blatantly agreeing for no good reason.

That was in response to Yahtzee's reviews in general. I've seen everyone of them. Of the games I've actually played? Next to none. All thanks to Yahtzee, sweet wonderful Yahtzee. I would say what I think about people who've already played this game at its 50$ plus price point, but I will probably be banned. As much as that would be for my better. I can't help myself.

Please don't tell me you have a candlelit shrine to him. That would be bad.

 

[thewatergamer]

I agree with yahtzee on most points, however the story was amazing, and I loved the main characters (even though like he said predictable)

but I also can say that it doesn't deserve a perfect score and all the praise its getting
Aside from the story there's almost nothing that appeals to me, don't get me wrong its still a very good game but I just don't think it deserves all the praise and perfect scores its getting, drop the story and the gameplay is kind of weak...

 

[Yahtzee Croshaw]

This could be very interesting. ^^

I'm actually looking forward to a possible response.

hmm I don't think I'd like it...
I mean, he won't reconsider, he can't...
So it's simply going to become a "follower bashing" episode.
I didn't like it when he did it back in the day, and I don't even like SSB ( I agree with a lot of his observations about the game ). That said, I suppose I would like him to show some awareness about the disappointment several ZP viewers, but somehow I don't think that will make a big difference.

Well to be honest seeing the amount of projecting that has been going on; how he's not a serious reviewer but a entertainer or even the accusation that he didn't play the game! Those people deserve a good bashing.

I've liked several games that yahtzee annihilated but I don't mind. I know I enjoyed it, like the Witcher.
So if you can't stand a negative review of your new favourite game then just put it past while playing it and wait for next week.
On the flip side I have bought some games according to his reviews like Just Cause 2.
Yahtzee is a good reviewer and unlike most "mainstream" reviewers he will go against popular releases. I've read plenty that would never cross a AAA-publisher.

To all those people, you included, that think that your opinion is the correct one. Suck it up buttercup.

Hah, it would be a little stupid if I didn't think my opinion was correct.. If I thought my opinion was incorrect, then I'd probably change it.

And yeah, I'm one of the few that suggested that he hadn't played the complete game since his grasp of some of the basic components of it was shallow and (more than occasionally) straight up incorrect (Detached from liking the game on a more personal level, no-one can really expect anyone else to like the same things one does).
It is quite clear to most, how the game executes what he has lauded as great gameplay design choices, yet there is no mention of how successful it is in that sense (and even if it's not perfect it does a good job with several game-play systems). Moreover, not only does he point out "issues" that have been present in many recent games but he had previously ignored, but also he fails to mention other very noticeable problems in the mechanics of the game that would be very valid criticism.

In fact, as many have said, it simply feels different to most episodes, very uninspired and rather superficial.
I'm extremely nit-picky of even the games that I love, and I rarely find anything flawless (TLOU is far from flawless), but I try to keep the game's qualities separated from external factors. For example, I wouldn't let a certain developer cloud my judgement of a game's merits, I can say that Uncharted 2 was a great adventure game with spectacular sections, while I can honestly describe Uncharted 3 as a tiresome bloated AAA iterative exercise. This doesn't condemn or save Naughty Dog, so I think it should be possible to judge The Last of Us as its own game, very distinctive from the previous games by the company.
Seems to me that Yahtzee left too many external factors cloud his judgement on this one...

Maybe he didn't like it; Maybe he condemned it because of how much universal praise the game is getting and he doesn't want to fall into the mainstream; Maybe he really just can't disassociate Naughty Dog's stamp or its console exclusive status with the game, ...
But anyway it appears something external to the game itself prevented him from observing even what he himself often praises. Now I'm not up in arms about it, I don't like the game more or less because of this review, but I do feel that it has made a dent in my personal appreciation of ZP.

But hey, to each his own, I'm quite aware that in most forums online it's either black or white.

 

[DarkSeraphim02]

I'm pretty sure what I'm about to say has in one form or another been repeated by several posters by now, but I'm something of a lazy bugger and am not going to read through all 8 pages of comments before saying this.

The Last of Us doesn't need defending, Yahtzee himself has said that if you like a game then what he has to say shouldn't bother you. I enjoyed The Last of Us quite a bit, and am in fact replaying it, so while I found his review of the game amusing, I'm not bothered by what he said, hell even his motorboating joke didn't bother me that much. Yahtzee has made far worse jokes than that, specificly the miscarridge joke he made in his webcomics video.
Another game that I really liked that he pretty much completely dismissed was Castlevania Lords of Shadow, and he wrote that one off simply because it has a portal reference in it. I still got a laugh out of the video though.

Yahtzee is the reason I came to the escapist, and while I enjoy hearing his opinions on games they are just that, his opinions. Ultimately what he thinks of any given game has no bearing on how I feel about it.


P.S My apologies if I spelled miscarridge wrong, I don't have any kind of spell checker on this thing.

 

[Demongeneral109]

I was seriously planning on getting a ps3 just to play this game
but now i'm not going to.

I got into a massive argument after the E3 2012 gameplay demo

i hated how after an apocalypse everyone just starts killing everyone else for no real reason

As the man says now these less of us surely the value of human life should have gone up. I mean if everyone i ever cared about was dead i'd do everything i could to avoid more pointless death.
Yes people would be angry and hate filled but at the ones who took there loved-ones away. The clickers not the humans (don't want to get into that)

So yes great review saved me a lot of heartache and £160

I think thats the point of the game from what everyone else is saying. From the comments im getting the feeling that the game fully calls out the violence against fellow men, portraying humans as selfish and irredeemable if they cant even pull together in the face of extinction. Its not like The Walking Dead, which sees each life as precious and everyone is, on some level, aware of that. This is a game of selfishness and desperation. Joel doesn't care about humanity, he cares about ellie, and he knows how selfish that is but he doesn't care.

Yahtzee sometimes misses the point in games, even though he lauds story, it seems like he occasionally really misses the mark on good storytelling. He doesn't seem to understand subtle or unstated development, which is the real strength of TLoU. I'd recommend to give this one a chance, if reviewers and the internet are agreeing on something, its generally at least worth checking out methinks.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

If you could buy me the time to play these games too then that would be splendid.

Full time student here who also works a full time job. Trust me, I know what it means to be busy and I've had days where I leave the apartment at 5 in the morning and don't get back until 11:00 at night, I still manage to find the time to at least enjoy a few games and on my days off, when I don't have plans or errands to run, you can bet your ass I power played my way through Last of Us and a few other games. Anyway.

50$ is just too much to pay for a game in my book.

Fine, that's understandable, but with the used game market being as big as it is, there isn't an excuse for being able to pick up a triple A game for 20-40 bucks. Heck, Left 4 Dead 2 on Steam is down to 5 bucks. You can get the komplete (sic) edition of MK9 for 30 bucks if fighters are your thing. Maybe you prefer the Sims or something and if so, you can grab that at 15.00 bucks at Gamestop if its used. Fallout New Vegas? 20 bucks. Battlefield 3? 20 bucks. Arkham City GOTY edition? 20 bucks. [/quote]

People who buy them before that time are just being taken advantage of by the publishers, and I can't blame the publishers for that, but its basically just a class based system, first class, second class, etc, for people with more money than they know what to do with.

Or you can do what a good portion of those gamers do, buy the game, play it, enjoy it, beat it and then sell it back while the buyback price is still high. Take Bioshock Infinite for example. I bought at full price, played it, beat it, Loved it! and then returned it for 40 bucks, lowering my net loss from 60 to 20 dollars, a price you wouldn't be able to get now. If you know how to play the system, you can be an avid gamer and still save money. I work in retail, its not like I make a lot of money, but I can find ways to pay my bills and still have a way to support a hobby that I've enjoyed every since I was a little kid.

 

[gjkbgt]

'

I keep on getting this response I didn't like E3 demo because you brutally killed a bunch of guys for no reason other then, it's the post apocalypse at that stuff happens.
And people defend that but saying yeah but it knows that killing people is bad and uses that to show how how horrible and evil people can be.

This is utterly stupid as far as arguments go.
The reason i didn't like the E3 demo was i didn't have context for why they were trying to kill me and i them.
And rather then giving context the game points at all the murder and goes "isn't it tragic people killing each other for no reason"

This is the worsted kind of storey telling the kind that really gets me mad where the writer makes up something doesn't explain it then points to the thing it made up as evidence for some bullshit theory.

So no not buying the game thank fuck for that

 

[luvd1]

Did naughty dog jilt Yahtzee at the alter? Coz he really doesn't like 'em. Great review, don't agree with it... well some of it....well ok, the zombies, elle being invisable, allies runnning about like one man band loons are all valid but not the ending but then I am a selfish bastard of a man. Just ask the girlfriend and kids.

 

[D-Class 198482]

Elizabeth in BioShock Infinite had the exact same problem of floating through combat with nary a scratch, but he never found that to be an issue in that game.

Except there was an actual reason behind that. The enemies weren't supposed to be shooting at her, so they didn't.

OT: You know, it's rather nice to see that, besides me and Shadman, there is actually another person who doesn't think this game is 10/10 FOREVAH, BEST GAME, PERFECT GAME, IS SO GUD!
I actually think it is worth more of a 6/10...

 

[A1]

'

I keep on getting this response I didn't like E3 demo because you brutally killed a bunch of guys for no reason other then, it's the post apocalypse at that stuff happens.
And people defend that but saying yeah but it knows that killing people is bad and uses that to show how how horrible and evil people can be.

This is utterly stupid as far as arguments go.
The reason i didn't like the E3 demo was i didn't have context for why they were trying to kill me and i them.
And rather then giving context the game points at all the murder and goes "isn't it tragic people killing each other for no reason"

This is the worsted kind of storey telling the kind that really gets me mad where the writer makes up something doesn't explain it then points to the thing it made up as evidence for some bullshit theory.

So no not buying the game thank fuck for that

The demo might not give context. But the game itself does. You might want to actually experience the game for yourself before making that kind of judgement call.

 

[A1]

I was seriously planning on getting a ps3 just to play this game
but now i'm not going to.

I got into a massive argument after the E3 2012 gameplay demo

i hated how after an apocalypse everyone just starts killing everyone else for no real reason

As the man says now these less of us surely the value of human life should have gone up. I mean if everyone i ever cared about was dead i'd do everything i could to avoid more pointless death.
Yes people would be angry and hate filled but at the ones who took there loved-ones away. The clickers not the humans (don't want to get into that)

So yes great review saved me a lot of heartache and £160

I think thats the point of the game from what everyone else is saying. From the comments im getting the feeling that the game fully calls out the violence against fellow men, portraying humans as selfish and irredeemable if they cant even pull together in the face of extinction. Its not like The Walking Dead, which sees each life as precious and everyone is, on some level, aware of that. This is a game of selfishness and desperation. Joel doesn't care about humanity, he cares about ellie, and he knows how selfish that is but he doesn't care.

Yahtzee sometimes misses the point in games, even though he lauds story, it seems like he occasionally really misses the mark on good storytelling. He doesn't seem to understand subtle or unstated development, which is the real strength of TLoU. I'd recommend to give this one a chance, if reviewers and the internet are agreeing on something, its generally at least worth checking out methinks.

Keep in mind that in The Walking Dead the apocalypse just happened very recently whereas in The Last of us it happened twenty years ago.

That's twenty years of resources drying up, the infection spreading, and people dying through all kinds of causes. I wonder what the setting of The Walking Dead would look like after twenty years of in universe time?

 

[gjkbgt]

The demo might not give context. But the game itself does. You might want to actually experience the game for yourself before making that kind of judgement call.

My god, did you even carry this thought through. did you think even for a micro second before you posted this absurdly dumb statement.
I'm not going to spend £160 to play a game i don't think i'm going to like.
That's why i watch review. Can't trust the game stop/ IGN reviews as they basically go by the games budget (10/10 of Cod Bl op 2)

review not overwhelmingly negative but critises the parts that were turning me off already. --> not buying game.

Also i got to say that this forum is really throwing up some read flags for me.

My problem is that everyone seems to except violence as justified automatically as part of the Zombie trop.
If that's the admission price to enjoy this game i'm not going to enjoy it.

It's just dumb I mean say the clickers where aliens not zombies, there is no way you would except an post alien invasion game where the main enemy if humans.
Or a terminator game where the main enemy are human bandits but it is just as likely and dumb.

So well done this game has gone from not worth buying a PS3 for, down to: Prob not worth getting even after i buy a PS3

 

[A1]

The demo might not give context. But the game itself does. You might want to actually experience the game for yourself before making that kind of judgement call.

My god, did you even carry this thought through. did you think even for a micro second before you posted this absurdly dumb statement.
I'm not going to spend £160 to play a game i don't think i'm going to like.
That's why i watch review. Can't trust the game stop/ IGN reviews as they basically go by the games budget (10/10 of Cod Bl op 2)

review not overwhelmingly negative but critises the parts that were turning me off already. --> not buying game.

Also i got to say that this forum is really throwing up some read flags for me.

My problem is that everyone seems to except violence as justified automatically as part of the Zombie trop.
If that's the admission price to enjoy this game i'm not going to enjoy it.

It's just dumb I mean say the clickers where aliens not zombies, there is no way you would except an post alien invasion game where the main enemy if humans.
Or a terminator game where the main enemy are human bandits but it is just as likely and dumb.

So well done this game has gone from not worth buying a PS3 for, down to: Prob not worth getting even after i buy a PS3

If you do not believe a product is something that you're going to enjoy then so be it. It's only logical that you not buy it. But even so not having the means and/or the will to experience something for yourself still doesn't give you the right to make that kind of judgement call about it without having done so (experiencing it for yourself). If you don't have the means or the will then the best and most mature thing to do would be to withhold judgement indefinitely (even if indefinitely ends up meaning the rest of your life).


And there are simply many people who understand the plausibility of human on human violence in those kinds of situations. And there are very good reasons for understanding this.

But even so if you find that you are bothered or irritated by the things that people are saying on these forums then I'm afraid you have only yourself to blame.

No one is forcing you to read or respond to any of these posts on these forums. If you don't like what you've been reading around here then my suggestion would be to go somewhere else. Perhaps somewhere where people share your beliefs and opinions.

 

[gjkbgt]

[.

Wow this might actual be fun.

Firstly. it is bad etiquette to imply that the reason someone didn't like something is that the subject matter is beyond them.
The whole may people understand this, implied shame you're not one of them.
You don't know how i am could be a nuclear physicist or a games designer. i could work conflict resolution for the un. A professional writer, a doctor, aid work & army major.
could be more or less qualified then you so don't assume. (one of those is my real job BTW)

The fun part. I originality posted to say i found the review useful in my decision about buying the game. You asked me to justify you accuse me for not giving the game a fair trial. I explain why i didn't give the game a fair trial you tell me it's my right not to give give game a fair trial as long as i don't make statements judgments on it's quality. Forgetting it was you who asked me to make statements judging the games quality.
also like you're so holy i bet you make/laugh at twilight is shit jokes

And as for your closing statement that i found to be almost sexual it was deliciously ironic

beware the circle jerk. never go places where everyone agrees.
No i don't have to read/reply neither do you if you disagree then you can feel free to go somewhere else too.
Also surely its people who like the last of use who should go somewhere else as this is the comments from a video that doesn't like that game.
I came her to review the posted ZP can sometimes miss out details and clearly it's a much loved game. I wanted to know why . The results were useful, they reaffirmed my discussion.

Well that was fun.
Any other point you want to resolve just shout

 

[A1]

[.

Wow this might actual be fun.

Firstly. it is bad etiquette to imply that the reason someone didn't like something is that the subject matter is beyond them.
The whole may people understand this, implied shame you're not one of them.
You don't know how i am could be a nuclear physicist or a games designer. i could work conflict resolution for the un. A professional writer, a doctor, aid work & army major.
could be more or less qualified then you so don't assume. (one of those is my real job BTW)

The fun part. I originality posted to say i found the review useful in my decision about buying the game. You asked me to justify you accuse me for not giving the game a fair trial. I explain why i didn't give the game a fair trial you tell me it's my right not to give give game a fair trial as long as i don't make statements judgments on it's quality. Forgetting it was you who asked me to make statements judging the games quality.
also like you're so holy i bet you make/laugh at twilight is shit jokes

And as for your closing statement that i found to be almost sexual it was deliciously ironic

beware the circle jerk. never go places where everyone agrees.
No i don't have to read/reply neither do you if you disagree then you can feel free to go somewhere else too.
Also surely its people who like the last of use who should go somewhere else as this is the comments from a video that doesn't like that game.
I came her to review the posted ZP can sometimes miss out details and clearly it's a much loved game. I wanted to know why . The results were useful, they reaffirmed my discussion.

Well that was fun.
Any other point you want to resolve just shout

Okay. There seems to be stuff to clear up. I don't know where most, if not all, of that stuff you just brought up is coming from.

I never implied that the subject matter was beyond you. It's possible that you might have felt like I was doing that but I wasn't and I didn't. I know that I don't know anything about you and I never implied or insinuated that I did. And I didn't assume anything. What I did was counter the arguments you made about humanity.

I never asked you to justify anything. I never accused you of not giving the game a fair trial. I only suggested that you might want to experience the game for yourself before making judgement calls about it. That was not an accusation. That was a suggestion and it was made after you had already established that you hadn't played the game.

I never asked you to make statements judging the games quality. In fact I never asked you to do anything.

You also seemed to indicate that what people were saying on these forums was bothering you. I made a suggestion based on that.

And while I don't speak for anyone else here I myself never said or implied that what anyone on these forums was saying was bothering me.


EDIT: And you seem to be making fun of at least one of the things I said. So you really don't seem to be in a position to accuse anyone of bad etiquette.

 

[Something Amyss]

Meh, I thought I was having a thoughtful conversation .. not just a rhetorical exercise with someone just shielding on cynisism ... you clearly didn't pay much attention to what I said..

I don't get why you feel the need to be disingenuous out of the box, but it makes me less interested in what you have to say.

I'm sorry that you see me criticising you for making up points on which to attack Yahztee as a defense of cynicism, but I'm beholden to honesty, and that wasn't honest. I don't enjoy Yahtzee's cynicism outside the context of it entertains me.

And again, nobody seems to mind his cynicism when it's a game they don't like. but whatever.

 

[Something Amyss]

you often tend to be here just to tell people how dumb and wrong they are being for having a certain opinion...

See? See right there? that's kind of my point. I'm not sure if you're lying or just incorrectly inferring, but that's simply not true. You are attacking a made-up point. You did this to Yahtzee, and you're doing it to me.
EDIT: and apparently, you know how wrong it is, since you've changed it since I clicked on the link.