Sometimes your knife gets stuck in someone. That's why the chronic knife fighters carry several on their person.
Zero Punctuation: The Last of Us
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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Let me offer a counterpoint.gjkbgt said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States
Even if you just look at the last 20 years (and this is just for the United States), you will see plenty of instances where people behave like animals just because they can. The 1991 Washington DC riots, the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles in 1992, the 2001 Cincinnati riots, the looting and unrest after Hurricane Katrina in 2005, two riots in consecutive years in LA after the Lakers win the NBA championship, all of these involved a large amount of people commiting crimes for no real purpose. The supposed cause of some is to "protest" some court decision or similar, but tell me how burning down buildings, robbing and looting from stores, and harming people who have nothing to do with the court decision count as protesting?
No, these and many of the other examples listed in the link acted this way because they were completely selfish and they felt they could get away with it. Even the various Occupy movements on Wall Street had numerous instances of theft and sexual assault because there are people who feel they can take what they want no matter what. And none of these situations involved some great calamity facing humanity as a whole such as the Cordyceps fungus in TLOU and other post-apocalyptic games/movies.
The people who have morals and cannot take a life are the ones who will die out first as the animals above take everything they can from them for themselves. Unless you are willing to fight with everything you have to survive, you won't make it. So, if defending oneself against senseless acts of violence would make me a murderer, then so be it, but I'm not just going to lay down and die.
Okay, since Yahtzee has this bad habit of occasionally actually "enjoying" a game, people seem to have forgotten that this is what he does. But everyone who automatically goes, "YAHTZEE IS THE SAVIOR" might need a nice cup of sit down and shut up.
Anyway, meh. I enjoyed the game for what it is. I actually kinda like the portrayal of how the whole thing happens and how the disease actually spreads. Yahtzee didn't a number of valid/slightly exaggerated reasons which are slightly understandable but also a bit overblown...because that's what he does.
Also: I'm pretty sure the story establishes that plenty of people try to do the whole peace thing but the dicks won out.
But of course everyone knows this, we've seen it all before, and plenty would rather not see it again. So I understand the criticism.
Buuuut I like slamming faces against thing...though I still wish Joel would learn there's more to life than that.
Anyway, meh. I enjoyed the game for what it is. I actually kinda like the portrayal of how the whole thing happens and how the disease actually spreads. Yahtzee didn't a number of valid/slightly exaggerated reasons which are slightly understandable but also a bit overblown...because that's what he does.
Also: I'm pretty sure the story establishes that plenty of people try to do the whole peace thing but the dicks won out.
But of course everyone knows this, we've seen it all before, and plenty would rather not see it again. So I understand the criticism.
Buuuut I like slamming faces against thing...though I still wish Joel would learn there's more to life than that.
After an apocalypse, resources, or access to resources would be severely limited, such as clean water, food, medicine. Maslow's heirarchy of needs. If the base needs aren't covered, people tend not to reach a psychological level of satisfying any morality needs.gjkbgt said:
There might be spoilers ahead* if you have any interest about this game, GO PLAY IT!
We all know that Yahtzee DOES THIS, ripping games apart for the sake of entertainment, it's true.
But you know what I respect, that he generally has the intelligence and intecrity to recognize what is good, he may be reluctant but he doesn't fail to praise Spec Ops, Silent Hill 2, Portal, or Shadow of the Colossus. Even when he finds a profoundly unexpected positive in an otherwise rather generic game, he makes it note, as he borderline praised the first Modern Warfare, and found positives even in the somewhat obscured Resistance 3.
And that is why this is such a disappointment coming from someone I have come to respect over the years. No, I don't take him too seriously... but I thought more of him. The Last of Us has issues, bigger issues than the petty complaints he found considerable enough to mention. For example, the inclusion of collectibles that completely rip the immersion out of the otherwise extremely conscientious and engaging exploration. Making us realize again that: hey, it's a game after all. Or the few sections where it scriptedly forces you into killing a number of enemies even when you have made great efforts to use stealth. Even how the Encounters are secluded and limited to certain areas that almost feel like monster closets contrasting with the very organic feel of the world.
Granted, there are smaller gameplay complaints, like the inclusion of weapons that are more or less usable to different playstyles (I actually did use smoke bombs efectively a couple of times), Or that the companion AI isn't always perfect (quite honestly it is much better than most other AI companions, and even had certain personality traits evolving with the story). But those are only minor problems that are present in almost any game that has weapons or AI companions.
(about that, every time a game comes up with AI companions, everyone destroys them, so I wonder: Have they EVER been any good? or are they one of those things that is only good in theory? to me TLOU is probably it's best implementation, but it still seems to get quite some hate)
About society, I find it a bit silly to complain about it's lack of care for human life. The truth is that there is A LOT of care, there even is PARANOIA, and the situation presented in the game is precisely so special because it pushes these characters into breaking the new social conventions that are much more strict and careful than they used to be.
Several times in the game npcs comment on how terrifying it would be to get an infected inside one of these enclosed human havens... but the thing is that the relative stability has been accomplished by force. Crisis does test the limits of society, and particularly throughout the game(With the subtle comments that David's followers make, or the survivor logs in different refuges) we learn that stability is only acquired through sacrifice.
About the unlikeability of characters, I think it says enough that we can speak about their intentions and motivations for so long. They are superbly realized, and even in his cynicism Yahtzee should see that. Their interactions make spec ops (and most other -spoken narrative- games up to date) seem blunt, coarse and hamfisted. Sure, I knew how the general plot would play up from the get go, but it is the grayness in the themes that really surprised me, there are no real villains and the heroes are the first to die. A character as Dark, pathetic but intensely relatable as Joel I think I had only seen fleshed out this well in literature.
Hollywood would definitely avoid this much moral conflict like the plague, and most games only give "evil" options as a possibility to fill up a red fiery bar. And still most of us managed to understand how hard the decisions were.
In this line, as people said before, the ending is not at all a "happily ever after" it is both of them knowing that it is all a based on a lie. It is slow burning anguish, faced upon the imperative to survive.
So what the hell was this, Yahtzee?
Is it your new found hatred for all things console? Is it your contempt for exclusives? Is it that you are so caught up in your dislike for the developer that you can't see what a special thing they've done? Or maybe it really is that you couldn't find anything worth your time in the game... in which case.. I'm starting to think that maybe you should change your line of work to... foreign north Korean political correspondent? Sour stamp licker? something where you may be able to enjoy the real good things in life...
We all know that Yahtzee DOES THIS, ripping games apart for the sake of entertainment, it's true.
But you know what I respect, that he generally has the intelligence and intecrity to recognize what is good, he may be reluctant but he doesn't fail to praise Spec Ops, Silent Hill 2, Portal, or Shadow of the Colossus. Even when he finds a profoundly unexpected positive in an otherwise rather generic game, he makes it note, as he borderline praised the first Modern Warfare, and found positives even in the somewhat obscured Resistance 3.
And that is why this is such a disappointment coming from someone I have come to respect over the years. No, I don't take him too seriously... but I thought more of him. The Last of Us has issues, bigger issues than the petty complaints he found considerable enough to mention. For example, the inclusion of collectibles that completely rip the immersion out of the otherwise extremely conscientious and engaging exploration. Making us realize again that: hey, it's a game after all. Or the few sections where it scriptedly forces you into killing a number of enemies even when you have made great efforts to use stealth. Even how the Encounters are secluded and limited to certain areas that almost feel like monster closets contrasting with the very organic feel of the world.
Granted, there are smaller gameplay complaints, like the inclusion of weapons that are more or less usable to different playstyles (I actually did use smoke bombs efectively a couple of times), Or that the companion AI isn't always perfect (quite honestly it is much better than most other AI companions, and even had certain personality traits evolving with the story). But those are only minor problems that are present in almost any game that has weapons or AI companions.
(about that, every time a game comes up with AI companions, everyone destroys them, so I wonder: Have they EVER been any good? or are they one of those things that is only good in theory? to me TLOU is probably it's best implementation, but it still seems to get quite some hate)
About society, I find it a bit silly to complain about it's lack of care for human life. The truth is that there is A LOT of care, there even is PARANOIA, and the situation presented in the game is precisely so special because it pushes these characters into breaking the new social conventions that are much more strict and careful than they used to be.
Several times in the game npcs comment on how terrifying it would be to get an infected inside one of these enclosed human havens... but the thing is that the relative stability has been accomplished by force. Crisis does test the limits of society, and particularly throughout the game(With the subtle comments that David's followers make, or the survivor logs in different refuges) we learn that stability is only acquired through sacrifice.
About the unlikeability of characters, I think it says enough that we can speak about their intentions and motivations for so long. They are superbly realized, and even in his cynicism Yahtzee should see that. Their interactions make spec ops (and most other -spoken narrative- games up to date) seem blunt, coarse and hamfisted. Sure, I knew how the general plot would play up from the get go, but it is the grayness in the themes that really surprised me, there are no real villains and the heroes are the first to die. A character as Dark, pathetic but intensely relatable as Joel I think I had only seen fleshed out this well in literature.
Hollywood would definitely avoid this much moral conflict like the plague, and most games only give "evil" options as a possibility to fill up a red fiery bar. And still most of us managed to understand how hard the decisions were.
In this line, as people said before, the ending is not at all a "happily ever after" it is both of them knowing that it is all a based on a lie. It is slow burning anguish, faced upon the imperative to survive.
So what the hell was this, Yahtzee?
Is it your new found hatred for all things console? Is it your contempt for exclusives? Is it that you are so caught up in your dislike for the developer that you can't see what a special thing they've done? Or maybe it really is that you couldn't find anything worth your time in the game... in which case.. I'm starting to think that maybe you should change your line of work to... foreign north Korean political correspondent? Sour stamp licker? something where you may be able to enjoy the real good things in life...
gjkbgt said:
"If you are in a hostile environment full of zombies then shelter is hard to find alone"
Actually that may or may not be true depending on the rules and circumstances of a given zombie scenario.
"we evolved to be nice as a survival strategy. same for evolving to not wanting to kill our fellow man."
Human history as well as studies of human behavior tell a different and more complicated story. Wars, genocide, murder, mass murder, suicide. All of these things have happened a lot throughout human history and continue to happen. Scientific research tells that humans rank among the most violent of species. Violence, and the desire for it, is a part of human nature.
Of course human nature isn't all bad. But it's certainly not all good either.
You seem to be speaking of good human behavior via logic and reasoning. But one of the problems is that human beings don't always behave rationally or logically. And even reason and logic might not encourage or support good behavior depending on certain factors such as the limitations of resources or the matter of dealing with other people who aren't thinking or behaving rationally or logically.
yeah pretty much my thoughts. I understand he's got to critique and all, but these complaints were formed as if he read the wikipedia page and based it all off that.Legion said:
I was counting my lucky stars that I didn't actually have to watch Ellie though. And the fact she could dance around enemies was more amusing than irritating to me.
That being said, I don't know if people were playing on lower difficulties or what, cause Ellie still gets attacked a lot. In zombie swarms they would corner her and I had to kill her attackers before the meter ran out or gets her throat bitten off, and similar things happened occasionally with bandits if she got really separated during some intense firefights.
I'm still going to get the game, because it really does seem like an interesting experience and if the story is good, then that's really all I could ever hope for.
The only thing that really surprised me is that Ellie can't die. That's a bit strange and I agree with Yahtzee that they should have just used the mechanics from Resident Evil 4, since they enable the player to carry out their protection duty more effectively.
The only thing that really surprised me is that Ellie can't die. That's a bit strange and I agree with Yahtzee that they should have just used the mechanics from Resident Evil 4, since they enable the player to carry out their protection duty more effectively.
FallenMessiah88 said:
Actually Ellie can die and she does get attacked sometimes. Sometimes an enemy will grab her and you have a limited amount of time to help before she gets killed. It's the same deal with all the other friendly AI companions you work with throughout the game. Friendly AI characters do sometimes get attacked, just not as often as the player character.
And for what it's worth here's my advice.
Don't take Yahtzee's "review" of this game seriously. I assure you that he does not do the game justice.
OT: The fact that Yahtzee didn't say one positive thing about this video has me disappointed. I know his specialty is nitpicks but he typically points out and acknowledges the good things in games he likes. As to why he's hating on this game so hard, I haven't a clue.
I would think he'd be above crass fanboyism of Microsoft, as that's really the only actual reason one can have for not giving this at least one tentative thumb up even if you're completely sick of shooting games, zombie games, and hate Naughty Dog.
I would think he'd be above crass fanboyism of Microsoft, as that's really the only actual reason one can have for not giving this at least one tentative thumb up even if you're completely sick of shooting games, zombie games, and hate Naughty Dog.
His use of the word orifice earlier in the video combined with the motorboat joke conjured up scary memories. Whatever you do, don't google image search "The Last Orifice". I would have considered it quite suspicious for him to have made two references to it coincidentally but he tends to utilize the word orifice fairly often.Pink Apocalypse said:
That's funny, I find smokebombs the most broken item in the game. Just drop at feet of enemy and they'll sit in the smoke doing nothing for the full 3 or so minutes it takes for it to go away.Legion said:
Just wanted to say... holy crap that giraffe scene. I can understand the apathy syndrome though. What a grim dark world.
Also, the shiv upgrade to defend against clickers takes care of the one hit problem. It's annoying that's where your first upgrades will always go.
Also, the shiv upgrade to defend against clickers takes care of the one hit problem. It's annoying that's where your first upgrades will always go.
Let's not forget the classic "Yahtzee isn't a reviewer, he's a comedian, and he has to make everything seem bad because it's funny."Zachary Amaranth said:
So... this is the first time I've ever really COMPLETELY disagreed with Yahtzee. It feels like we played a totally different game. Oh, actually, I did agree with one thing. Smoke bombs ARE fairly useless. They have a minimal degree of use, but they're far less useful than literally everything else in the game.
But aside of that... first, I'd like to say that some of the things he says are just plain wrong. Ellie CAN be attacked by zombies. So can the rest of your support characters. Maybe he was playing on a lower difficulty to get through the game faster? I'm honestly not sure if that's outright removed on easy or normal.
And what he said about the story is really baffling to me. I don't know how he just seemed to completely miss the entire point and every single theme the game slaps right in your face.
Also, I found it ironic that he complained about Ellie adding nothing to gameplay after not saying a word about Elizabeth in Infinite. All Liz did was make the game unnecessarily easy. Ellie is actually a great help. If you're stealthing she tells you if enemies are coming from a direction you're not facing and that you need to move. If you're in combat she assists you with taking out enemies.
Also odd? A lot of things that he praises about literally any other game that has certain features, he didn't even mention here. Like being able to carry all weapons and the lack of regenerating health. I have no idea HOW he made a comparison between TLoU and the generic model that lots of AAA games use with some shooting here and stealthing there and setpieces inbetween. Those games barely have stealth, and if so it is for one or two sections of the game. TLoU is BASED around stealth. And TLoU doesn't even have setpieces unless you count the prologue and... something close to the very end of the game, I guess. TLoU doesn't even make you press anything to get in cover. They just let you position yourself behind it by your own methods. Actually, Yahtzee praised Resistance 3 for literally every single one of these things and mentioned none of them here...
I feel like a lot of people are being dramatic about this on both ends of the spectrum, both with the "praise yahtzee now I know to never get this game" and "this review is a betrayal I used to trust you". I am on neither side. I still love the guy and his work. I have disagreed with Yahtzee on games many times before. This is just the first instance where it's not a case of us just being into different things, but simply... I don't even know. I don't want to say he's wrong, but I think most of his points are invalid. There are valid reasons to not like TLoU. But he stated only one of them.
But aside of that... first, I'd like to say that some of the things he says are just plain wrong. Ellie CAN be attacked by zombies. So can the rest of your support characters. Maybe he was playing on a lower difficulty to get through the game faster? I'm honestly not sure if that's outright removed on easy or normal.
And what he said about the story is really baffling to me. I don't know how he just seemed to completely miss the entire point and every single theme the game slaps right in your face.
Also, I found it ironic that he complained about Ellie adding nothing to gameplay after not saying a word about Elizabeth in Infinite. All Liz did was make the game unnecessarily easy. Ellie is actually a great help. If you're stealthing she tells you if enemies are coming from a direction you're not facing and that you need to move. If you're in combat she assists you with taking out enemies.
Also odd? A lot of things that he praises about literally any other game that has certain features, he didn't even mention here. Like being able to carry all weapons and the lack of regenerating health. I have no idea HOW he made a comparison between TLoU and the generic model that lots of AAA games use with some shooting here and stealthing there and setpieces inbetween. Those games barely have stealth, and if so it is for one or two sections of the game. TLoU is BASED around stealth. And TLoU doesn't even have setpieces unless you count the prologue and... something close to the very end of the game, I guess. TLoU doesn't even make you press anything to get in cover. They just let you position yourself behind it by your own methods. Actually, Yahtzee praised Resistance 3 for literally every single one of these things and mentioned none of them here...
I feel like a lot of people are being dramatic about this on both ends of the spectrum, both with the "praise yahtzee now I know to never get this game" and "this review is a betrayal I used to trust you". I am on neither side. I still love the guy and his work. I have disagreed with Yahtzee on games many times before. This is just the first instance where it's not a case of us just being into different things, but simply... I don't even know. I don't want to say he's wrong, but I think most of his points are invalid. There are valid reasons to not like TLoU. But he stated only one of them.
CLICKERS! GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING CLICKRS! I knew I wasn't the only one that thought they were cheap as hell, I KNEW IT! Yahtzee knows my pain, those cheap override everything 1HKO's are bullshit. My friends didn't believe me, they said I just sucked but DAMMIT I knew it wasn't just me. Well either that or Yahtzee sucks too.
MOTHERFUCKING CLICKERS!
MOTHERFUCKING CLICKERS!
What you're assuming is that people will act rationally under widespread panic and destruction which they clearly will not.
I didn't play the game, but watched a friend play it, and he never used a single smokebomb, so i guess I can agree with yahtzee on how useful they are. Then again, from watching him it seems that the "stealth" in the game is completely arbitrary, as he'd just go and brick everything in the face rather than sneak anywhere.
Also, once again, since i didn't play it, can anyone tell me how joel has super hearing that let's him see through walls or whatever? or is that never explained ingame?
anyways, i liked the review, made me laugh.
Also, once again, since i didn't play it, can anyone tell me how joel has super hearing that let's him see through walls or whatever? or is that never explained ingame?
anyways, i liked the review, made me laugh.