^Sadly speaks the truth.Deathninja19 said:Yahtzee: funny until he picks on you.
^Sadly speaks the truth.Deathninja19 said:Yahtzee: funny until he picks on you.
Obviously, I intended to imply that PC users don't have any obligation to convince others. And I definitely don't think that gamers shouldn't be allowed to discuss the pros and cons of their chosen platform, only that when said discussion devolves into personal assumptions or accusations and claims of "objective superiority", then it becomes less a debate and more an opinionated shit-flinging contest dressed up in fancy words.debrox said:On need, you are using the straw man fallacy since no one ever stated his argument came out of necessity. On right, we certainly do, so your premise is false and unrelated to your conclusion.I_am_a_Spoon said:You have no need or right to "convert" others!
Fine. You've basically claimed that "objectively inferior" consoles are used primarily by the "delusional or ignorant".debrox said:Again, this is a straw man fallacy as you tacitly claimed we claimed that people will not buy whichever platform they prefer (when you said "WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?"). Of course, we did not claim that idiocy. Further, someone preferring something objectively inferior does not make its use subjective; it could be used by the delusional or ignorant. We've done our part to describe with facts the objective superiority of PC gaming. Where is your work to show that those objective premises are in fact only a matter of opinion, deeming the entire decision subjective?I_am_a_Spoon said:People will buy and use whichever platform they personally prefer... WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!
The claim that I own and employ both a PC and console is a personal testament to the subjective merits of both platforms, rather than evidence to support my statement, and I never presented it otherwise.debrox said:This is you saying a bunch of nothing since you basically stated you have the counter-evidence without actually giving it to us. Thus, this premise also does not lead to the conclusion.I_am_a_Spoon said:Each has their own merits... don't lecture others just so that you can feel superior. I have both a PC and 360, and like both for different reasons.
PC gaming is arguably better in some ways, and not in others. Not objectively so on average, as there are so many external factors to consider that comparisons from a purely-objective perspective are useless to a large degree.debrox said:It is not subjective. PC gaming is objectively better as we've shown. Again, why do you keep acting like we ever argued that the decision was not a choice?I_am_a_Spoon said:There are so many factors that come into play when determining platform choice (and it's just that, a choice) that all attempts to objectively juxtapose the pros or cons of any particular platform are irrelevant. It's almost ENTIRELY subjective.
The thing is a lot of people don't have time to learn to build a computer they have work and lives and when they come home they just want to relax for an hour or two before they have to do something else, with a console there's no need for extra work you can pop in a game and you can start playing. Don't get me wrong I love PC gaming but a lot of PC gamers do sound stuck up when they talk about 'dumbed down' console gaming, some people want to have immediate fun and who can blame them?Jamie Wroe said:Exactly. It does make me wonder sometimes if people actually belive this tripe that you need to remortgage your house every 6 months to have a decent gaming PC. The only time a console is better value than a pc is when it's first released, or if you don't have much knowlege about building PC's (and I bet everyone on the escapist could learn).
Affordability does play into the equation, regardless of what you think. Gaming is a luxury, not a necessity. If you even own a game, you bought it because you had spare cash lying around after paying rent, bills and for anything else you might need. A PC requires not only quite a bit of money to stay up to date, but also quite a bit of time. If you play on it a lot, it may be worth it. However, I don't game nearly enough to justify fixing my current PC and between car payments, gas and college bills, its kinda hard to even scrounge up the cash to do it.debrox said:That is like saying a $7 desert from a top restaurant is worse than a Snickers, because the Snickers is slightly more affordable. I don't think affordability (when the gap is so tiny -- only a few thousand dollars) should enter into the equation of supremacy. It can, however, enter into the equation of what is pragmatic for someone to buy, given his leisurely allowance.maddawg IAJI said:I have played both on the PC and on the Xbox. Both cost me around two hundred dollars. My PC can't run most of the latest games and I will need to spend quite a bit to get the right equipment needed for an upgrade. My Xbox on the other hand, has served me well and is always up to date.debrox said:Here is your conclusion. Let us examine if your premises bring us to it.I_am_a_Spoon said:Christ, the number of Escapists vehemently defending the PC is ridiculous.
On need, you are using the straw man fallacy since no one ever stated his argument came out of necessity. On right, we certainly do, so your premise is false and unrelated to your conclusion.I_am_a_Spoon said:You have no need or right to "convert" others!
Again, this is a straw man fallacy as you tacitly claimed we claimed that people will not buy whichever platform they prefer (when you said "WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?"). Of course, we did not claim that idiocy. Further, someone preferring something objectively inferior does not make its use subjective; it could be used by the delusional or ignorant. We've done our part to describe with facts the objective superiority of PC gaming. Where is your work to show that those objective premises are in fact only a matter of opinion, deeming the entire decision subjective?I_am_a_Spoon said:People will buy and use whichever platform they personally prefer... WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!
This is you saying a bunch of nothing since you basically stated you have the counter-evidence without actually giving it to us. Thus, this premise also does not lead to the conclusion.I_am_a_Spoon said:Each has their own merits... don't lecture others just so that you can feel superior. I have both a PC and 360, and like both for different reasons.
It is not subjective. PC gaming is objectively better as we've shown. Again, why do you keep acting like we ever argued that the decision was not a choice?I_am_a_Spoon said:There are so many factors that come into play when determining platform choice (and it's just that, a choice) that all attempts to objectively juxtapose the pros or cons of any particular platform are irrelevant. It's almost ENTIRELY subjective.
I prefer console gaming because it is easier and cheaper. We all have our reasons for liking what ever brand we buy, but I'll tell you right now, at the moment, the PC master race attitude doesn't make me want to go back to PC gaming and that is part of the reason why so many people dislike PC gamers.
Basically, you don't see impoverished people reviewing items, selecting only the least expensive ones as best. You see reviewers who consider what is affordable for most, not themselves.
That's fair enough, I used a console instead of a PC while at University (I didn't have the time to do much gaming so didn't care about having the best system). In my last post I was just trying to debate the point that a PC is significantly more expensive, because that's not the case for everyone and is never as significant as most people seem to think.Deathninja19 said:The thing is a lot of people don't have time to learn to build a computer they have work and lives and when they come home they just want to relax for an hour or two before they have to do something else, with a console there's no need for extra work you can pop in a game and you can start playing. Don't get me wrong I love PC gaming but a lot of PC gamers do sound stuck up when they talk about 'dumbed down' console gaming, some people want to have immediate fun and who can blame them?
Everything you said can be refuted with what I just wrote. That has nothing to do with which is actually the better product or experience. It has to do with your limitations to reach a product.maddawg IAJI said:Affordability does play into the equation, regardless of what you think. Gaming is a luxury, not a necessity. If you even own a game, you bought it because you had spare cash lying around after paying rent, bills and for anything else you might need. A PC requires not only quite a bit of money to stay up to date, but also quite a bit of time. If you play on it a lot, it may be worth it. However, I don't game nearly enough to justify fixing my current PC and between car payments, gas and college bills, its kinda hard to even scrounge up the cash to do it.debrox said:That is like saying a $7 desert from a top restaurant is worse than a Snickers, because the Snickers is slightly more affordable. I don't think affordability (when the gap is so tiny -- only a few thousand dollars) should enter into the equation of supremacy. It can, however, enter into the equation of what is pragmatic for someone to buy, given his leisurely allowance.maddawg IAJI said:I have played both on the PC and on the Xbox. Both cost me around two hundred dollars. My PC can't run most of the latest games and I will need to spend quite a bit to get the right equipment needed for an upgrade. My Xbox on the other hand, has served me well and is always up to date.debrox said:Here is your conclusion. Let us examine if your premises bring us to it.I_am_a_Spoon said:Christ, the number of Escapists vehemently defending the PC is ridiculous.
On need, you are using the straw man fallacy since no one ever stated his argument came out of necessity. On right, we certainly do, so your premise is false and unrelated to your conclusion.I_am_a_Spoon said:You have no need or right to "convert" others!
Again, this is a straw man fallacy as you tacitly claimed we claimed that people will not buy whichever platform they prefer (when you said "WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?"). Of course, we did not claim that idiocy. Further, someone preferring something objectively inferior does not make its use subjective; it could be used by the delusional or ignorant. We've done our part to describe with facts the objective superiority of PC gaming. Where is your work to show that those objective premises are in fact only a matter of opinion, deeming the entire decision subjective?I_am_a_Spoon said:People will buy and use whichever platform they personally prefer... WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!
This is you saying a bunch of nothing since you basically stated you have the counter-evidence without actually giving it to us. Thus, this premise also does not lead to the conclusion.I_am_a_Spoon said:Each has their own merits... don't lecture others just so that you can feel superior. I have both a PC and 360, and like both for different reasons.
It is not subjective. PC gaming is objectively better as we've shown. Again, why do you keep acting like we ever argued that the decision was not a choice?I_am_a_Spoon said:There are so many factors that come into play when determining platform choice (and it's just that, a choice) that all attempts to objectively juxtapose the pros or cons of any particular platform are irrelevant. It's almost ENTIRELY subjective.
I prefer console gaming because it is easier and cheaper. We all have our reasons for liking what ever brand we buy, but I'll tell you right now, at the moment, the PC master race attitude doesn't make me want to go back to PC gaming and that is part of the reason why so many people dislike PC gamers.
Basically, you don't see impoverished people reviewing items, selecting only the least expensive ones as best. You see reviewers who consider what is affordable for most, not themselves.
It has to do with the fact that I get more bang for my buck with the console and that alone makes the experience more enjoyable.debrox said:Everything you said can be refuted with what I just wrote. That has nothing to do with which is actually the better product or experience. It has to do with your limitations to reach a product.maddawg IAJI said:Affordability does play into the equation, regardless of what you think. Gaming is a luxury, not a necessity. If you even own a game, you bought it because you had spare cash lying around after paying rent, bills and for anything else you might need. A PC requires not only quite a bit of money to stay up to date, but also quite a bit of time. If you play on it a lot, it may be worth it. However, I don't game nearly enough to justify fixing my current PC and between car payments, gas and college bills, its kinda hard to even scrounge up the cash to do it.debrox said:That is like saying a $7 desert from a top restaurant is worse than a Snickers, because the Snickers is slightly more affordable. I don't think affordability (when the gap is so tiny -- only a few thousand dollars) should enter into the equation of supremacy. It can, however, enter into the equation of what is pragmatic for someone to buy, given his leisurely allowance.maddawg IAJI said:I have played both on the PC and on the Xbox. Both cost me around two hundred dollars. My PC can't run most of the latest games and I will need to spend quite a bit to get the right equipment needed for an upgrade. My Xbox on the other hand, has served me well and is always up to date.debrox said:Here is your conclusion. Let us examine if your premises bring us to it.I_am_a_Spoon said:Christ, the number of Escapists vehemently defending the PC is ridiculous.
On need, you are using the straw man fallacy since no one ever stated his argument came out of necessity. On right, we certainly do, so your premise is false and unrelated to your conclusion.I_am_a_Spoon said:You have no need or right to "convert" others!
Again, this is a straw man fallacy as you tacitly claimed we claimed that people will not buy whichever platform they prefer (when you said "WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?"). Of course, we did not claim that idiocy. Further, someone preferring something objectively inferior does not make its use subjective; it could be used by the delusional or ignorant. We've done our part to describe with facts the objective superiority of PC gaming. Where is your work to show that those objective premises are in fact only a matter of opinion, deeming the entire decision subjective?I_am_a_Spoon said:People will buy and use whichever platform they personally prefer... WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!
This is you saying a bunch of nothing since you basically stated you have the counter-evidence without actually giving it to us. Thus, this premise also does not lead to the conclusion.I_am_a_Spoon said:Each has their own merits... don't lecture others just so that you can feel superior. I have both a PC and 360, and like both for different reasons.
It is not subjective. PC gaming is objectively better as we've shown. Again, why do you keep acting like we ever argued that the decision was not a choice?I_am_a_Spoon said:There are so many factors that come into play when determining platform choice (and it's just that, a choice) that all attempts to objectively juxtapose the pros or cons of any particular platform are irrelevant. It's almost ENTIRELY subjective.
I prefer console gaming because it is easier and cheaper. We all have our reasons for liking what ever brand we buy, but I'll tell you right now, at the moment, the PC master race attitude doesn't make me want to go back to PC gaming and that is part of the reason why so many people dislike PC gamers.
Basically, you don't see impoverished people reviewing items, selecting only the least expensive ones as best. You see reviewers who consider what is affordable for most, not themselves.