Zero Punctuation: Until Dawn

[Piecewise]

People can complain about "Tropes vs Women" and such but I think that honestly the problem with the portrayal of women is just a problem with story in games in general. Even the "Really good" AAA story games are fucking pathetic compared to even a moderately good book

Something like gone home, which had reviewers flipping their shit and declaring it the example of videogames being art and stuff, is like teen fiction level writing at best. And not even classic teen fiction you'd read in school. Just a random paperback you'd find on the barnes and noble shelf.

It just feels really weird to see these narrative based games which have basically no gameplay and yet are still complete shit in terms of writing. I mean, come on guys, it's the one thing you have to do!

I wonder how much of it relates to middle management and marketing forcing everything to be blandified for the mass consumer. Like what they did with the most resent fantastic four, or how they forced the newest "Thing" movie to use CGI rather then the fully practical effects they had because it "Looked too 80's"

 

[Adamantium93]

The game's a pretty clever take on slasher films, probably why it was so engaging despite being cliched. Also, no comment on hammy Peter Stormare, Yahtzee?

He's right about the butterfly effect stuff being all talk though. Basically nobody can die up until the last third with the exception of

Spoiler

Matt, if you attack the deer.

Spoiler

You forgot about Jess and Emily

With these sorts of games, you have to consider the trade off between an appropriately crafted story and branching story lines. If every character could die in the first few chapters, it would make for a pretty boring game. Also, decisions you make early can effect a character's chance to survive later

Spoiler

You can shoot Emily if you didn't give her the flare gun, Chris will die if he tries to shoot Ashley

. I'd rather a fairly linear game that has a good story than a completely dynamic one that's forced to be bland to accommodate any possible choice by the player.

And yes, that fact that you can only kill the one person there turns out to be a MASSIVE plot point later. I think we can forgive that one.

 

[IcePhoenix]

People can complain about "Tropes vs Women" and such but I think that honestly the problem with the portrayal of women is just a problem with story in games in general. Even the "Really good" AAA story games are fucking pathetic compared to even a moderately good book

Something like gone home, which had reviewers flipping their shit and declaring it the example of videogames being art and stuff, is like teen fiction level writing at best. And not even classic teen fiction you'd read in school. Just a random paperback you'd find on the barnes and noble shelf.

Different audiences/wants. Book people already have books. If you're playing a video game, you probably either want to run/drive really fast, kill stuff, or see tits(or possibly all three)! That doesn't really demand a lot of character development and plot.

 

[Davroth]

I don't like to be lied to.

I didn't like it when TellTale games started to do it (and that's a shame, since I liked the games they made before EVERY CHOICE MATTERS!!!).

I likely wouldn't like it in this game either.

I'll pass on it.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

You know, I'd like to play a game where you get to play as the killer in a teen slasher.

 

[Dalrien]

You know, I'd like to play a game where you get to play as the killer in a teen slasher.

You want an HD digital version of "Whack-a-mole"?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

You know, I'd like to play a game where you get to play as the killer in a teen slasher.

You want an HD digital version of "Whack-a-mole"?

Of coarse not! I want to be Jason Vorhees (or an expy there of) murdering unlikable dipshit teenagers.

 

[Lil_Rimmy]

Man, I love Zero P. but the bloody escapist player is ridiculous. I literally can't load past the first three seconds, even after sitting through an ad for the fifth time. To Youtube, I guess.

Fix that shit, yo.

 

[Ulquiorra4sama]

I don't like to be lied to.

I didn't like it when TellTale games started to do it (and that's a shame, since I liked the games they made before EVERY CHOICE MATTERS!!!).

I likely wouldn't like it in this game either.

I'll pass on it.

Until Dawn isn't lying though. Your choices really do make difference in how characters interact with each other, what your options are in dire situations, what information the characters have at their disposal, who's gonna help out who when shit hits the fan, etc, etc. Just don't expect the differences to be immediately apparent after you make the choices because the whole point of a butterfly effect is that things change in big ways down the line.

And as for Yahtzee's whole point about the characters being horrible stereotypes ripped from any of N slasher movies: That's kinda the point. That's what sets the tone for the whole first half; that you're playing a game version of some cliched 80's slasher flick. It does evove beyond that though. Not into any sophisticated level of horror writing, but it's still really good.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

This week, Zero Punctuation reviews Until Dawn.

You forgot the first rule of Branching Story Games; You play the game how the developers want you to, not how you want to.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

People can complain about "Tropes vs Women" and such but I think that honestly the problem with the portrayal of women is just a problem with story in games in general. Even the "Really good" AAA story games are fucking pathetic compared to even a moderately good book

Something like gone home, which had reviewers flipping their shit and declaring it the example of videogames being art and stuff, is like teen fiction level writing at best. And not even classic teen fiction you'd read in school. Just a random paperback you'd find on the barnes and noble shelf.

It just feels really weird to see these narrative based games which have basically no gameplay and yet are still complete shit in terms of writing. I mean, come on guys, it's the one thing you have to do!

I wonder how much of it relates to middle management and marketing forcing everything to be blandified for the mass consumer. Like what they did with the most resent fantastic four, or how they forced the newest "Thing" movie to use CGI rather then the fully practical effects they had because it "Looked too 80's"

That is the funny thing about the current obsession with "narrative" in gaming: 90% of the people talking about it and are trying to push it SUCK at writing. Guys like David Cage keep going on about story in gaming, but are so hilariously inept at it that they set a bad precedent. And there are two really obvious thing that nobody who's pushing this story-driven gaming likes to acknowledge.

1) This is not the first time this has happened. This idea of pushing narrative over gameplay, but ultimately driven by a bunch of hacks has happened before. We just called it the FMV Adventure Game phase last time. Though this time people have decided the best way to solve the FMV-era's highly-flawed, clumsy gameplay was to excise any gameplay at all.

2) Good narrative isn't new to gaming; we've had games that have delivered on great plots for decades, whether they be adventure games, RPGs, shooters, strategy titles, good stories are nothing new. And they've also done narrative without sacrificing gameplay. It's the revisionism of the whole movement that irritates me. They're allowed their own opinion, but not their own set of facts.

 

[Xman490]

So, this isn't as actually choice-driven as ... that game with that girl in high school with the time-reversing powers.
But is it quite as NOT choice-driven as Telltale's older heavy-hitter interactive stories?

EDIT: Oh yeah! That game is Life Is Strange! Oh, interactive stories and their boring titles.

 

[wellofthreefeatures]

One thing I wish you had mentioned was that if you picked up the clues the characters ACTUALLY PUT SHIT TOGETHER and NOTICED THINGS and made THEORIES, whereas if you didn't they remained their normal selves. You don't see a lot of that in games, it was a nice touch.

 

[FPLOON]

You know, I'd like to play a game where you get to play as the killer in a teen slasher.

Like a teen slasher version of Naughty Bear?

OT: Dammit... I wanted planning on playing this game, but now I want to just too see how long [REDACTED] can survive...

 

[iller3]

I can't believe he didn't rag on the "staying still" part of the QTE's.

No Kidding!! What the hell Yahtzee? If that's a "gameplay mechanic" then farting is a Gym Exercise

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I can't believe he didn't rag on the "staying still" part of the QTE's.

No Kidding!! What the hell Yahtzee? If that's a "gameplay mechanic" then farting is a Gym Exercise

It is if you need to perform intricate yoga poses to get the gas out of you. Sometimes I go to the gym just to bench-sit. I can bench sit my body-weight. I'm advanced...

 

[iller3]

I can't believe he didn't rag on the "staying still" part of the QTE's.

No Kidding!! What the hell Yahtzee? If that's a "gameplay mechanic" then farting is a Gym Exercise

It is if you need to perform intricate yoga poses to get the gas out of you. Sometimes I go to the gym just to bench-sit. I can bench sit my body-weight. I'm advanced...

That Awkward mental image of Yahtzee and Gabe in the gym wearing Yoga pants....

 

[Atmos Duality]

Huh, this actually sounds like a pretty decent concept, or at least, experiment in narrative flow.
Not really much of a "game" courtesy of the QTEs though.

 

[deadish]

I will never understand where this 'Yahtzee hates Nintendo especially" idea comes from given he in the A Link Between Worlds review word for word said:
"I find myself in a strange position of being unreservedly on your side, Nintendo. And why? Because you released a game console, not an inferior gaming PC."

I really wish people who don't understand the differences between how consoles and PCs work, regardless of the similarities in certain hardware components, would stop commenting on this.

 

[LenticularHomicide]

I will never understand where this 'Yahtzee hates Nintendo especially" idea comes from given he in the A Link Between Worlds review word for word said:
"I find myself in a strange position of being unreservedly on your side, Nintendo. And why? Because you released a game console, not an inferior gaming PC."

I really wish people who don't understand the differences between how consoles and PCs work, regardless of the similarities in certain hardware components, would stop commenting on this.

So, having to download and install day-one patches for games is "how consoles work", is it?