So wait, you're attributing the game's quality to how into it a couple of let's players were? Are we getting to some weird point where Let's Play enthusiasm decides game quality now?Silentpony said:
Zero Punctuation: Until Dawn
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Awwww, classic Yahtzee, once again making my sides burst with guffaws!
Seriously, in the zone! Perhaps because it's a genre you like (slasher), that get's you into things a bit more?
Seriously, in the zone! Perhaps because it's a genre you like (slasher), that get's you into things a bit more?
People can complain about "Tropes vs Women" and such but I think that honestly the problem with the portrayal of women is just a problem with story in games in general. Even the "Really good" AAA story games are fucking pathetic compared to even a moderately good book
Something like gone home, which had reviewers flipping their shit and declaring it the example of videogames being art and stuff, is like teen fiction level writing at best. And not even classic teen fiction you'd read in school. Just a random paperback you'd find on the barnes and noble shelf.
It just feels really weird to see these narrative based games which have basically no gameplay and yet are still complete shit in terms of writing. I mean, come on guys, it's the one thing you have to do!
I wonder how much of it relates to middle management and marketing forcing everything to be blandified for the mass consumer. Like what they did with the most resent fantastic four, or how they forced the newest "Thing" movie to use CGI rather then the fully practical effects they had because it "Looked too 80's"
Something like gone home, which had reviewers flipping their shit and declaring it the example of videogames being art and stuff, is like teen fiction level writing at best. And not even classic teen fiction you'd read in school. Just a random paperback you'd find on the barnes and noble shelf.
It just feels really weird to see these narrative based games which have basically no gameplay and yet are still complete shit in terms of writing. I mean, come on guys, it's the one thing you have to do!
I wonder how much of it relates to middle management and marketing forcing everything to be blandified for the mass consumer. Like what they did with the most resent fantastic four, or how they forced the newest "Thing" movie to use CGI rather then the fully practical effects they had because it "Looked too 80's"
Kingjackl said:
You forgot about Jess and Emily
With these sorts of games, you have to consider the trade off between an appropriately crafted story and branching story lines. If every character could die in the first few chapters, it would make for a pretty boring game. Also, decisions you make early can effect a character's chance to survive later
You can shoot Emily if you didn't give her the flare gun, Chris will die if he tries to shoot Ashley
And yes, that fact that you can only kill the one person there turns out to be a MASSIVE plot point later. I think we can forgive that one.
Different audiences/wants. Book people already have books. If you're playing a video game, you probably either want to run/drive really fast, kill stuff, or see tits(or possibly all three)! That doesn't really demand a lot of character development and plot.Piecewise said:
Of coarse not! I want to be Jason Vorhees (or an expy there of) murdering unlikable dipshit teenagers.Dalrien said:
Until Dawn isn't lying though. Your choices really do make difference in how characters interact with each other, what your options are in dire situations, what information the characters have at their disposal, who's gonna help out who when shit hits the fan, etc, etc. Just don't expect the differences to be immediately apparent after you make the choices because the whole point of a butterfly effect is that things change in big ways down the line.Davroth said:
And as for Yahtzee's whole point about the characters being horrible stereotypes ripped from any of N slasher movies: That's kinda the point. That's what sets the tone for the whole first half; that you're playing a game version of some cliched 80's slasher flick. It does evove beyond that though. Not into any sophisticated level of horror writing, but it's still really good.
You forgot the first rule of Branching Story Games; You play the game how the developers want you to, not how you want to.Yahtzee Croshaw said:
That is the funny thing about the current obsession with "narrative" in gaming: 90% of the people talking about it and are trying to push it SUCK at writing. Guys like David Cage keep going on about story in gaming, but are so hilariously inept at it that they set a bad precedent. And there are two really obvious thing that nobody who's pushing this story-driven gaming likes to acknowledge.Piecewise said:
1) This is not the first time this has happened. This idea of pushing narrative over gameplay, but ultimately driven by a bunch of hacks has happened before. We just called it the FMV Adventure Game phase last time. Though this time people have decided the best way to solve the FMV-era's highly-flawed, clumsy gameplay was to excise any gameplay at all.
2) Good narrative isn't new to gaming; we've had games that have delivered on great plots for decades, whether they be adventure games, RPGs, shooters, strategy titles, good stories are nothing new. And they've also done narrative without sacrificing gameplay. It's the revisionism of the whole movement that irritates me. They're allowed their own opinion, but not their own set of facts.
So, this isn't as actually choice-driven as ... that game with that girl in high school with the time-reversing powers.
But is it quite as NOT choice-driven as Telltale's older heavy-hitter interactive stories?
EDIT: Oh yeah! That game is Life Is Strange! Oh, interactive stories and their boring titles.
But is it quite as NOT choice-driven as Telltale's older heavy-hitter interactive stories?
EDIT: Oh yeah! That game is Life Is Strange! Oh, interactive stories and their boring titles.
One thing I wish you had mentioned was that if you picked up the clues the characters ACTUALLY PUT SHIT TOGETHER and NOTICED THINGS and made THEORIES, whereas if you didn't they remained their normal selves. You don't see a lot of that in games, it was a nice touch.
It is if you need to perform intricate yoga poses to get the gas out of you. Sometimes I go to the gym just to bench-sit. I can bench sit my body-weight. I'm advanced...iller3 said: