Zero Punctuation: Webcomics

[WlknCntrdiction]

It's funny how all the CAD lapdogs are kissing Tim Buckleys ass and are angry just because Yatzhee "dissed" their oh-so-precious webcomic. Grow a spine, please.
I honestly don't think Tim Buckley could give two shits about you guys.

Yatzhee, funny as always and so true.

 

[williamjg]

hehe this made me luagh extra hard because me and two of my freinds have this kind of argument all the time. i read penny arcade and think it is the best gaming webcommic and check in and read every issue when it comes out. they are avid CAD readers and think its the bees knees (soz i havnt said that phrase in a long time) so when ever were are together we argue wich is better... but yatzee is right, the whole abortion plot has made them uneasy and unsure now. they only really want the gaming ones.

 

[Tempdude0]

Okay, in the interest of fairness I went and read through a shitload of Penny Arcade comics.


Anyone who slags of CAD without Slagging Penny Arcade is now a douchébag of the highest order.


Seriously, what the hell? How can you POSSIBLY like one and not the other to such a polarised extent? I like CAD, but PA doesn't do anything for me. I don't hate it, I don't even dislike it, I just wouldn't actively read it. Why? Because it feels very much like CAD, except it is annoying in small ways that spoil it too much for me to like it.

Just because it doesn't do anything for you doesn't mean it's bad. It just means it's not your bag baby. Feelin' the groove ain't necessary to know that something is the cat's meow, ya dig?

So, what about it is annoying? Quite a few people have pointed out the exact reason we both dislike CAD, and the reason those issues make it terrible. All I ask is that if you're going to make a statement, explain your point and have a real go of it.

Honestly, I don't care enough to get worked up over this. I've read CAD, i don't hate it or love it. Its neither the best or the worst webcomic out there. Seeing as i know nothing about Tim Buckley as a person, I can't comment on that either. I find Penny Arcade and PVP funnier
(i don't consider artwork to be all that relevant, its the humour that counts), but my current favourite web comics aren't gaming related: i.e. Dr McNinja, Red meat, White Ninja Comics.
I do however feel people a bit unfair in criticising Buckley. If you don't like someone, any action they take will have a negative spin for you. Some might call the miscarriage storyline brave or challenging (im not saying it is, this is a hypothetical), but if you've already decided you don't like the comic or the artist, it wouldn't matter if he was giving out free sweeties and money, you'd still criticise them regardless. Thats the nature of a subjective opinion, people find it easier to maintain it than to change it.

It's only unfair if you let that dilike of the person taint your opinion of their work. I dislike both the person AND the work for separate and valid reasons I've already gone into. Others have done the same. I realize it gets hard to see that sometimes, but those of us doing the WALL OF TEXT expositions actually keep the two separate.

I find it annoying that some people say that, no matter how funny some people may find it, CAD is not, in fact, done well. What annoys me about this is, again, its a personal point of view, an opinion and nothing more. Webcomics aren't cars, there's no base standard for what makes it "good" beyond what YOU feel makes a webcomic good. I like CAD, its not the best webcomic I've ever read, but its ok, and I think the miscarriage arc was done well, if not completely tastefully. Some people will say I'm wrong and there is no way to believe its good, even if people like it, but to that I say this: Fuck You.

Because there aren't established meathods of detirmining the quality of writing beyond ones enjoyment of it. Nooooo, it's all OPINION maaan. If you don't like it, it's what you feeeeeel duuuude, ya know? I hate that argument because it means everything, EVERYZING! is good if people like it. You can like something and it still be bad. Don't worry, we all have guilty pleasures. The main thing is to just be able to admit that you like something that isn't really that good.

What is it with you people and having to justify your love of something? Why must it be good and deep and well written to be the object of your affections? Where does it say "If people like it, it's good"? Good grief, a little objectivity here please?

 

[Friendly_Neighborhood_Misanthrope]

I find it annoying that some people say that, no matter how funny some people may find it, CAD is not, in fact, done well. What annoys me about this is, again, its a personal point of view, an opinion and nothing more. Webcomics aren't cars, there's no base standard for what makes it "good" beyond what YOU feel makes a webcomic good. I like CAD, its not the best webcomic I've ever read, but its ok, and I think the miscarriage arc was done well, if not completely tastefully. Some people will say I'm wrong and there is no way to believe its good, even if people like it, but to that I say this: Fuck You.

Because there aren't established meathods of detirmining the quality of writing beyond ones enjoyment of it. Nooooo, it's all OPINION maaan. If you don't like it, it's what you feeeeeel duuuude, ya know? I hate that argument because it means everything, EVERYZING! is good if people like it. You can like something and it still be bad. Don't worry, we all have guilty pleasures. The main thing is to just be able to admit that you like something that isn't really that good.

What is it with you people and having to justify your love of something? Why must it be good and deep and well written to be the object of your affections? Where does it say "If people like it, it's good"? Good grief, a little objectivity here please?

No, Dumbass, it means what one person thinks makes good writing is not necessarily the same thing. And, if you'd read what I wrote properly, you would realize as opposed to it being EVERYTHING is subjective, I just feel things like webcomics are more up to personal opinion.

Its like this, one critic may say some author is a good author, and his book is written well, but another disagrees and says it was tasteless and done badly. You read the book, and find you enjoy it. Now obviously, since you and the second critic have a difference of opinion, the content which makes something good or worth reading is different for you.

So no, people don't necessarily like something DESPITE how bad it is, they actually think its good, because their view of what makes something good is DIFFERENT.

 

[Kovash86]

Oh, god...when I read you say that everzing is good in someone's opinion, I think I puked a little in my mouth, I've seen enough intar-wubz to know the true horrors available, which can be summed up in the internet rules seen here:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rules+of+the+internet

 

[LaughingTarget]

I find web comics in general difficult to stomach. Even the major ones in the gaming circle. Penny Arcade is particularly atrocious as they failed to move beyond humor typically found in the 6th through 8th grades. The granddaddy of the gaming webcomics leans heavily on a stable of four letter words and does little more than pepper them around in an almost perfect transcript of whatever the current event happens to be. Hard hitting, witty, smart and funny are not words that can be used to describe PA. I am surprised they went four strips without a single vulgarity lately, though it is just a shallow copy of Balls of Fury (calling it a shallow version tells you something when the movie was already weak). The rest just get worse.

I used to pay attention to User Friendly, being a tech geek and another old-school one, Kevin and Kell, but those two have dramatically dropped in quality. As of late, the only webcomic I can still enjoy on a regular basis is Dr. McNinja. Chris Hastings never stops amazing me with his irreverent plot twists and events that remind me of the good old days of screwball comedies like Airplane! and The Naked Gun.

Of course, I tend to blame the Internet on this. There may be good webcomics out in the wild, but they tend to be drowned out by the mountains of poorly written garbage that fills the annals of places like Keenspot. Adding a completely unregulated arena for anyone to cheaply and easily produce their work creates an additional hassle of the discerning consumer to actually find something worth consuming.

Of course, if we were to listen to the hundreds of webcomic writers, we apparently owe them our lives to read their work or make one of our own. Apparently we aren't allowed to call something bad and refuse future patronage unless we offer a competing product. Though this is a common problem among any form of media work that turns out to be a dud.

 

[rebochan]

Oh, god...when I read you say that everzing is good in someone's opinion, I think I puked a little in my mouth, I've seen enough intar-wubz to know the true horrors available, which can be summed up in the internet rules seen here:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rules+of+the+internet

So have I. Ctrl-Alt-Del is derivative, but it is nothing compared to the pit of /b/.

 

[-Rykan-]

Ahhh, I'm a follower of CAD, but I gotta admit, WTF at the latest storyline.
However, you totally just ruined it for my fella, he's been meaning to catch up with it for a while. I know no specific comics were mentioned, but it's gonna be pretty obvious now.

 

[Friendly_Neighborhood_Misanthrope]

Oh, god...when I read you say that everzing is good in someone's opinion, I think I puked a little in my mouth, I've seen enough intar-wubz to know the true horrors available, which can be summed up in the internet rules seen here:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rules+of+the+internet

Jesus fucking christ, how the hell does "I feel this particular medium is more about opinion than some things" turn into "Evarything iz up 2 opinion DUR"?

 

[Blayze]

It's not just the painfully bad exposition.

At least the exposition in the comic you linked to knew its place, and didn't threaten to overwhelm the actual images and drown the characters in a sea of speech bubbles.

 

[spungemonkey]

*Facepalms*

It's his opinion, get over it

 

[Soviet Joe]

It's funny how all the CAD lapdogs are kissing Tim Buckleys ass and are angry just because Yatzhee "dissed" their oh-so-precious webcomic. Grow a spine, please.
I honestly don't think Tim Buckley could give two shits about you guys.

Nah, he'd probably try and sue them for defending him.

 

[doctrzombie]

GREATEST. VIDEO. EVER.

And not just because of all the insanely uncomfertable similiarities between the review and my Webcomic.
Seriously, how'd you get into my house?

 

[Moo64c]

That was great. Tim Buckley should totally stop having balls in his mouth (can't stand CAD anymore since about a year ago. Shit's just not funny).

Also Yahtzee, you charismatic stallion, you forgot all about the copy-paste from tile A to tile B while slightly changing the facial expressions!

 

[versino]

everyone keeps saying CAD and that just sounds silly, since to me CAD means computer aided design so i'm a bit lost here, someone tell what you think it stands for so me and my technical terms can go play.

 

[Xullea]

I think Yahtzee makes a great point and though it does take a shot at a LOT of webcomics, I think it's a necesarry bullet graze to try and make more people aware of the monotone writing and character/plot design that seems to plague most webcomics today. Too often do we see video-game based webcomics that are quick to jump on the latest PA or , no offense, Yahtzee's reviews, and draw up a witty four panel basically saying the same thing we've all heard. As a reader and avid artist, I would appreciate it more if someone went out, actually played the game, much like Yahtzee or the guys behind Penny Arcade, and THEN presented their thoughts. Even if those thoughts are contradictory to popular opinion at least you're being an original writer and not a two-bit hack.
For example: I thought Portal was an amazing game, but the fan-hype that followed shortly after almost robbed Portal of some the qualities that made it good. That's right, fans can ruin a game/ t.v./movie series very easily. We get that the cake is a lie, you don't have to repeat it every time someone mentions baked goods like you're some kind of malfunctioning speak-n-spell.
See? That wasn't so hard.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

everyone keeps saying CAD and that just sounds silly, since to me CAD means computer aided design so i'm a bit lost here, someone tell what you think it stands for so me and my technical terms can go play.

Ctrl+Alt+Del, a webcomic.

 

[Fisher_King]

Oh the CAD hate is mountainous! While I agree with many of the criticisms of CAD, I find the way in which they are expressed rather... tasteless. What else should I expect from the internets?

However, when I came across this shining gem of brilliance:

That was great. Tim Buckley should totally stop having balls in his mouth (can't stand CAD anymore since about a year ago. Shit's just not funny).

I was compelled to take the time to register and say my piece and let the feelings of futility swarm upon me as I shout into the blackened void that is anonymous communication via the internet.

I know we all want to jump on the Yahtzee bandwagon because he criticized webcomics. In the words of the all-mighty criticizer himself, "That's fine." I have no problem with people criticizing what they don't like. But there is a distinction between your criticisms (the "balls in mouth" comment being a good example) and Yahtzee's. The sound bite version of this distinction is that Yahtzee has class and most of you don't.

Notice that Yahtzee never specifically mentions any webcomic or webcomic creator that he is criticizing. Granted, the refereces to CAD are pretty overt but he never personally insults Buckley. I'm not sure if Yahtzee agrees with me (but I'm guessing he does) in that it's impportant to separate a creator from what he creates. Just because what Buckley creates is bad (I certainly believe so) doesn't mean he should be demonized (in the way that anyone we don't like can be demonized on the internet thanks to the aforementioned anonymity.)

This brings me to my second and most crucial point:

Even if I believed that CAD was the greatest slight against the English language and art ever concocted in the halls of mediocrity, I would still hold Mr. Buckley in a far higher esteem than you lot. I will always praise the person who tries and fails over the mindless masses that ridicule him for his failure. That failure can be taken for what it is and be criticized , such as Yahtzee did with CAD's drama debaucles, but the most wretched people on this Earth are those who engage in such a hypocrisy as to think less of a man for his failures.

 

[Roffey123]

Wowsas, over 600 comments in just over 24 hours - that's gotta be some kind of record. Keep this up and we'll have a mountainous flame/troll/fanboy hybrid/bastard child thread to control THE MASSES :O

 

[Salad Is Murder]

Can you show me conclusive evidence that there are, in fact, no ball's in his mouth at this time?