Zero Suit Samus has a great character model

[Lugbzurg]

I like this new design. Samus looks way more cool than I've ever seen her before.

Besides, this is quite an improvement over Brawl. I find it absolutely ludicrous that people are crying "sexualized" over this. Uhh... hello!? Did you just conveniently forget her design in Brawl?

 

[mecegirl]

You seem to be pretty willfully ignorant if you don't see the incentives despite them being explicitly spelled out in her trailer.

She got by without those things fine in the previous game. Those features do not improve her abilities; they only change them.

Actually, she was noted by most players as lacking in heavy hitting attacks, which drove down her usability greatly. The idea of introducing equipment to improve her ability to deliver powerful attacks was a direct response to these criticisms. Even the highest tier players struggled to overcome this limitation. It took a couple years for even the best players to figure out how to make up for this massive disadvantage.

So no, she did not get by fine without them in the previous game at all.

I would think that it probably shouldn't have too many heavy hitting attacks. I understand how they could make the character easier to use, but when you consider how the suit works in the Metroid games it makes sense. She has been striped down to the bare essentials. She has a single weapon at her disposal. Yes she's going to be a bit weak.

She is faster though(or at least I feel she is, not sure what other players have noticed), and that has its benefits.

 

[furthestshore]

I don't know how to reply to any of this

I'll try more serious and straightforward replies to your points.

she was one of the first to have a bikini cheat code

The "Justin Bailey" code let you play as Samus wearing a gymnast's leotard (not a bikini). It was 1988, and having the hero turn out to be a woman was enough of a novelty that it's understandable they'd sneak in a mode where you could play as Samus out of her armor. But that mode was just a hidden novelty, like the "Big Head Mode" of Arkham Asylum, not the way the vast majority of players played the game.

rewarded the player with variously increasing levels of undress based on their speed in completing Metroid games.

Yes, depending on how fast you beat the game you could see armored Samus facing away, armored Samus facing you, Samus without her helmet, Samus outside of her suit in a leotard, and Samus outside her suit in a bikini. And each of these would only appear on the screen for a few seconds - it took far more time to play the game to the end, and even more to get good enough that you'd unlock any of those endings.

A character's appearance tells the audience a lot about them. In Samus' case she wore the armor while handling everything serious, and took it off when she was done, like you'd expect any soldier to do after battle. It humanized her while still presenting her as one of the more serious action heroes of the period.

Personally I was amazed when the Zero Suit was a thing, because it's basically a body stocking. We're way past being guarded about how she's portrayed at this point,

Not everyone is. There was always some negativity directed toward the Zero Suit, but at the time people were told that it would be used only for one part of one game, and besides, Prime had already presented her less sexualized than ever. But it keeps being pushed more and more, and the addition of high heels and it becoming so prominent that it's a playable character... some of us definitely have a problem with this trend, and are not happy with being told that there was some deadline for criticism that's already passed.

This hurts nobody

Considering the size and scope of the industry, it doesn't seem very logical to assume that games, unlike other media, have no influence.

 

[JimB]

I was amazed when the Zero Suit was a thing, because it's basically a body stocking.

Tony Stark wore the same body stocking the first time he put on the Mark II suit in the movie. I'm not saying that having a man wear the outfit makes it okay--I'm aware that the context of society's responses to a woman's body versus a man's would make that a false equivalence--but I am saying that at least conceptually, the zero suit doesn't bother me. It seems like a reasonable undergarment for power armor.

The specific uses that concept have been put to are increasingly problematic, though.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

I have no problem with sexualization. It just makes it nice to look out, I don't give a shit if people find it offensive or complain about it.

 

[Qvar]

Zero suit ruined Samus for me, period.

 

[Nazulu]

You mean the part where Ripley walks around in incredibly low cut panties and an almost see through tank top and stretches in front of the camera? Are we working on a different definition of fan service here?

That was fan service, but not the fan service people are complaining about. You said you didn't understand why people feel it's a betrayal to Samus's character, and it's clearly because her body wasn't used for advertising before, it was about the combat and the world. But I still just disagree in general.

Fan service doesn't have to be a marketed selling point for it to be there. And who said the images were offensive? Fan service is not inherently offensive unless you think sexiness for the sake of sexiness is inherently bad. But there is a difference between sexualization as important character building and sexualization for eye candy. Samus clearly falls into the latter category, and she always has (with the single arguable exception of the very first metroid.)

And I am not sure how old you are, maybe you are too young to have been there, but do you know how many rumors floated around about being able to make Samus go topless? I will agree that the first Metroid ending arts were way to pixelated to be considered sexy, but they stepped up their game hard for Metroid 2, Super Metroid, and especially Fusion. Those games ending artworks were created for sex appeal.

Well, I reckon it does have to be marketed because how is anyone going to know about it then? It's not much of a service when you have no idea it exists. It's so minimal in explaining anything that none of what you say is proof.

And I think you took what I said about being offensive too literal. I meant that it's not really sexual at all. As I said, it's just too ugly for it to be eye candy (I'm talking Metroid, 2 & 3 were too pixelated. Maybe if they were presented like Chun Li I would agree. But she wasn't represented as such). And a women in just a top and undies doesn't automatically mean she's just showing her goodies either. I don't agree how clear it is to you because I never saw it like that, it's just not enough. If it is meant to be sexual servicing, it's really bad.

As for those rumours, they were for many games. I used to buy every Nintendo magazine and you won't believe the rumours people brought up in the mail board section. It was hilarious. Some of these people just made up these rumours about performing these really really difficult challenges to show the characters naked, and so many fell for it.

And they have done a great job of compartmentalizing it, which is why you were so easily able to dismiss it in the first place. In almost all her main games Samus is the badass bounty hunter with the side serving of fan service. It was only when the franchise was handed to misogynistic jerks that this ever became a problem (with Other M.)

Well that's partly why people see it as a betrayal to her character, the suit was just the beginning. I reckon the problem came with Fusion, it just all went down from there, clearly establishing a basic cliche' anime sexy look, of course it was gonna spread. Though Fusion was the last Metroid game I liked.

 

[Wizardly-K9]

Once again, another case of people pouncing on anything they deem "inappropriate," and doing nothing but kicking up dust clouds. So Samus is wearing heels in the new Smash Bros. So what? Is her being elevated an extra two inches off the ground really sending female game characters back to the virtual Suffrage?

God forbid how people would react is they did something drastic like give her piercings, or reveal that she likes ponies, or turn her into a feminist.

 

[DrOswald]

I guess I see very little difference between someone like Maria Sharapova and current Samus. A quick image search of Maria Sharapova gives me a dozen pictures of her in a bikini and she has no visible muscle definition.

I imagine google's bikini shots would give off the wrong impression. She's a 6'3 tennis player with an athletic figure, (for me at least) it seems a fair comparison.

Well, the bikini shots are the only ones that reveal enough of her body to show abs and the such, and even in the shots of her actively playing tennis none of the ones I saw show significant muscle definition in her arms. So sorry about that, my bad.

I am not mad at all about this, and I am not trying to deny that Zero Suit Samus is the fan service for this game. That is obvious. I am just confused when people try to claim that Nintendo using Samus for fan service is a betrayal to her character

I see people make this kind of argument and I agree it is the wrong way to go about it. As many have pointed out Samus never had much of a character (and as the game's wiki apparently points out) this was a deliberate choice thus to allow the player to "project themselves" onto the character. Normally I'm not a fan of this style of protagonist but given Nintendo's track record with giving Samus a 'personality' I prefer the blank slate.

My issue with the zero suit is little to do with Samus' character and more to do with the Zero Suit being aesthetically dull as fuck and (more importantly) the juvenile rationale required to feel it necessary to strip Samus out of her armour so she can parade around in heels and a pink and blue latex leotard.

Well, I would disagree with you on some points but over all you make totally reasonable and fair arguments. The Zero Suit is pretty boring, which is the big reason why I like the new design. It actually gives it a designed look instead of the painted on latex we got before.

As for the uses of the zero suit, I think pretty much all the uses pre other M are fine. In Zero Mission it allowed for a really good stealth segment (and they couldn't very well dress her in the bikinis she had been wearing before zero mission for that.) The prime games only ever showed it as the ending mini cutscene as before, and the smash bros games are out of canon messing around (in this case, can Samus be an effective warrior without her suit?) None of these things seem at the detriment of the character for me.

Other M, on the other hand, handled this at a juvenile level because the entire game was done this way. It was a cluster **** of failure. But I am willing to pretend that Other M never happened, everyone makes mistakes sometimes. In this case, the mistake was handing total creative control over to a level designer. 9/10 games good or great is not a bad record.

 

[DrOswald]

You seem to be pretty willfully ignorant if you don't see the incentives despite them being explicitly spelled out in her trailer.

She got by without those things fine in the previous game. Those features do not improve her abilities; they only change them.

Actually, she was noted by most players as lacking in heavy hitting attacks, which drove down her usability greatly. The idea of introducing equipment to improve her ability to deliver powerful attacks was a direct response to these criticisms. Even the highest tier players struggled to overcome this limitation. It took a couple years for even the best players to figure out how to make up for this massive disadvantage.

So no, she did not get by fine without them in the previous game at all.

I would think that it probably shouldn't have too many heavy hitting attacks. I understand how they could make the character easier to use, but when you consider how the suit works in the Metroid games it makes sense. She has been striped down to the bare essentials. She has a single weapon at her disposal. Yes she's going to be a bit weak.

She is faster though(or at least I feel she is, not sure what other players have noticed), and that has its benefits.

She is a very fast character, and that does have benefits. But when the objective is to send you opponents flying off screen as fast as you can, a character who lacks powerful hitting attacks is going to be extremely handicapped until you spend some serious time figuring out have to make up for it. The problem is that Smash Bros is supposed to be a party game as much as anything. From a game design perspective, making a character bad for 98% of your player base is a really bad idea. Like I said, it took even tournament level players a couple years to figure out how to make up for her inherent disadvantages.

Each character need to be moderately balanced a casual level and at a tournament level. Zero Suit Samus was not.

 

[DrOswald]

Actually, she was noted by most players as lacking in heavy hitting attacks, which drove down her usability greatly. The idea of introducing equipment to improve her ability to deliver powerful attacks was a direct response to these criticisms. Even the highest tier players struggled to overcome this limitation. It took a couple years for even the best players to figure out how to make up for this massive disadvantage.

So no, she did not get by fine without them in the previous game at all.

Maybe I'm just some kind of savant, or maybe I'm lucky, but I never had a particular problem with her. Then again, I play that game mostly without looking at the screen at all and just hitting buttons with my palm like a monkey trying to imitate the players trying to ring in on a game of Family Feud, so I dunno.

I am mostly kidding about that second sentence, but let's be serious for a moment here. As best I can tell, your argument in support of the Gaga heels is, "Zero Suit Samus didn't have powerful attacks, so Gaga heels are the only way to make up for that failure." I don't think that logic tracks. If you want to insist she needed rocket boots, then fine, whatever. If you want to insist they have to look external to the suit, then again, fine, I don't have a particular reason to argue that. But for them to look like that is just fucking disrespectful of the audience.

I never said that the heels were the only way to make her work, just that she did not work. Something had to be done to fix the problem. Now, they could have just made her kick hard without the rocket heels, and that would have been just fine. They chose to give her more fantastical equipment as a justification. That is also fine.

The part that confuses me is why the heel design is so incredibly disrespectful to the audience. I just don't see it.

 

[mecegirl]

She is a very fast character, and that does have benefits. But when the objective is to send you opponents flying off screen as fast as you can, a character who lacks powerful hitting attacks is going to be extremely handicapped until you spend some serious time figuring out have to make up for it. The problem is that Smash Bros is supposed to be a party game as much as anything. From a game design perspective, making a character bad for 98% of your player base is a really bad idea. Like I said, it took even tournament level players a couple years to figure out how to make up for her inherent disadvantages.

Each character need to be moderately balanced a casual level and at a tournament level. Zero Suit Samus was not.

I always wondered if they needed to make her a playable chracter. It is one thing to have her show up when the suit falls off, it adds to the strategy. But she really has nothing going for her in the zero suit. Zero suit Samus being "weak" may make her a less valuable character in Smash Bros, but it is true to the Zero suit form in the Metroid games. Her emergency gun in Zero mission could only paralyze enemies. In smash it is treated like a full on lazer and they even added the ability to turn into a whip. But if she is powerful enough outside of the suit to deliver a strong energy based attack then what is the point of her even having the suit?

 

[The Inquisitive Mug]

I'm sorry, but regarding the discussion about how practical Zero Suit Samus was as a fighter in Brawl, I can't see how this bears any relevance to whether or not her character design is overtly sexual or a "betrayal" to her character. She's in the game because the developers thought it would be a selling point. There's nothing in her combat attributes that belies some statement about women or sexuality. Even if Samus with her power suit on was 10x better than Zero Suit, Zero Suit is there because the developers thought it would be fun to play as. I don't even see how there would be a sexuality angle to her in-game skill. If she was the best character in the game, but was completely topless, would that somehow make it okay?

I'm not saying there should be no opinions expressed about her new character design. After all, every consumer should be able to voice their opinion about what they want in a product, but let's tone it down before people start talking about this being "character assassination". Seriously. It's on the first page of this thread, you can check for yourself. People are upset about the alleged character assassination of a fictional bounty hunter in a robot suit that fights space pirates that are led by a giant brain. Remember before the internet, when people could be offended without being overcome with the need to thrust their offense onto others? Remember when people wouldn't be offended because someone else was offended and be overcome with the need to convince the latter otherwise?

Money talks. Just look at the reaction to Other M. If you think the character design is telling of a game that makes Samus look weak or like nothing more than a sex object, don't pick it up right away. Wait for a review or something. If you think the character design is perfectly fine, also cool. Just bear in mind when expressing your opinion that people disagreeing with you are not a big deal.

(Incidentally, I find think the heels look stupid, but I take no offense to the character design. I actually find it less sexual than her Brawl suit.)

 

[JimB]

The part that confuses me is why the heel design is so incredibly disrespectful to the audience. I just don't see it.

They could have chosen pretty much any other design to justify the powers they want to give her, but instead went for the one that most evokes Team Ninja's handling of the character, dressing her like a stripper and putting her in poses human beings don't (and often can't) strike for seemingly no other reason than a belief that this is what we want, to see a powerful female character reduced to a fetish object. It reminds me, in type if not in scope, of the last time I went to Deviantart to look for pictures of Wonder Woman and how many images I found of her being bound and raped.

 

[KikReask]

You know what I hate the most about this controversy? This is the first bit of attention Metroid has had in 4(!) years, and it's mostly just people hating it. And while I do consider Other M to be crap, it's been 4 years and we still can't shut up about it? Sorry Nintendo, it looks like NO ONE likes Metroid anymore, you don't have to give this series anymore attention. (I mean, it's not like you guys were going to make a new game anyway)

 

[Dragonbums]

Sorry Nintendo, it looks like NO ONE likes Metroid anymore, you don't have to give this series anymore attention. (I mean, it's not like you guys were going to make a new game anyway)

We like Metroid. We just don't like anything associated with Other M, and zero suit Samus as a standalone is very much from Other M, and we hate the fuck out of that game.

Nintendo should know that, and not be fucking surprised by the reactions to it.

But hey, I guess those basement dwelling Otakus over in Japan are paying them good money for that schtick.

 

[Dandres]

I love the Metroid games (except for M) for the game play, story and character. But this does not shock me. Like most games from the past the game makers have no clue how to make a modern game from the classic. Heck Mega Man 9 & 10 were just 8 bit throw backs because they were afraid of making him modern, rightly so. These days I cringe when someone says that a game is going to be remade by some AAA studio. Back to the point the boots are of bad taste along with the whole zero suite thing. How does the zero suite have as much power and resistance as her other suite? It does not. Nintendo needs to stop objectifying her and give a decent game that I will let my kids play.

 

[furthestshore]

Once again, another case of people pouncing on anything they deem "inappropriate," and doing nothing but kicking up dust clouds.

Ad hominem attack.

So Samus is wearing heels in the new Smash Bros. So what? Is her being elevated an extra two inches off the ground really sending female game characters back to the virtual Suffrage?

A little bit, yeah.

reveal that she likes ponies,

Liking ponies isn't an absurd sexualization that's bad for your health and puts you at an extreme disadvantage in a fight.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

I'm just going to leave this here, not as my opinion, but one that I found interesting on the matter.

 

[MrFalconfly]

Once again, another case of people pouncing on anything they deem "inappropriate," and doing nothing but kicking up dust clouds. So Samus is wearing heels in the new Smash Bros. So what? Is her being elevated an extra two inches off the ground really sending female game characters back to the virtual Suffrage?

God forbid how people would react is they did something drastic like give her piercings, or reveal that she likes ponies, or turn her into a feminist.

As I see it, it's less about the heels being "inappropriate" or "sexualizing" or "objectifying", and more about the heels being generally a shit design for combat footwear.

I know I wouldn't want to constantly trip around in shoes like that. Give me slippers, snickers, shoes, boots. Anything with proper ankle support and good traction.

And for pete's sake don't justify it with "rockets".

We've already seen how rocket boots can look realistic (and they don't have heels).

Spoiler