Zynga and the Rise of the New Gamer
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
Saying that Zynga are superior to Valve because their games are cheaper, more comforting and adapt better to your limited time schedule is like saying that hookers are better than wifes for...well the exact same reasons.
The sentiment of "oh, but it's good because it will attract more people to gaming" is one that I've seen expressed pretty frequently on this site. But that just seems to assume that alone the fact that more people are playing will somehow benefit players of bigger (and better) games such as myself.
But so what? What advantages do I draw from an increase of people playing games when the only games they'll play is boring, repetitive garbage like this? (And yes, I have tried Mafia Wars.) All I can see that will lead to is that developers of other, better games to also start making boring, repetitive garbage.
Very similar arguments were presented in favor of the Wii and the new, casual audience it attracted. So what if it did? All that accomplished was for other developers and companies to move to gimmicky, shallow motion controls: Natal and whatever the Playstation motion abomination is called.
But so what? What advantages do I draw from an increase of people playing games when the only games they'll play is boring, repetitive garbage like this? (And yes, I have tried Mafia Wars.) All I can see that will lead to is that developers of other, better games to also start making boring, repetitive garbage.
Very similar arguments were presented in favor of the Wii and the new, casual audience it attracted. So what if it did? All that accomplished was for other developers and companies to move to gimmicky, shallow motion controls: Natal and whatever the Playstation motion abomination is called.
Valve would be dominating if they pulled the same shit Zynga is. The creators of Steam, Counter Strike: Source and Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead not to mention all their other games amazing games that still all have dedicated communities. If they had a little icon that said: Go vote for us! on those programs, Zynga wouldn't stand a chance.
Very interesting article. It also brings up a thought about the nature of 'hardcore gamers' who dislike 'casuals'. We act like, for example, music snobs, who will decry anything the 'unwashed masses' enjoy. I admit I administer a little bit of music snobbery as well, always scolding my friends for listening to popular radio tracks (most I start to enjoy after they've been played to death). For all of the talk gamers have about wanting the industry to expand, they ultimately believe this is their hobby and put initiates through hell to ensure they only get the 'cream of the crop'.
I think that's why Zynga and the Zynganites are so unpopular, they are technically gamers, but they haven't been subjected to the rigors of playing complex games or trying to break into the gamer community. In spite of having nothing more than extra time and money, 'hardcore gamers' want to feel like part of an exclusive club, and Zynga and it's gamers are inadvertently shattering the myth of this exclusivity.
If people weren't so hung up on 'casual' and 'hardcore' trappings, everyone could just have fun.
(I totally think Zynga doesn't deserve to win MM, but)
I think that's why Zynga and the Zynganites are so unpopular, they are technically gamers, but they haven't been subjected to the rigors of playing complex games or trying to break into the gamer community. In spite of having nothing more than extra time and money, 'hardcore gamers' want to feel like part of an exclusive club, and Zynga and it's gamers are inadvertently shattering the myth of this exclusivity.
If people weren't so hung up on 'casual' and 'hardcore' trappings, everyone could just have fun.
(I totally think Zynga doesn't deserve to win MM, but)
The controversy is important since it brings up a good point which I can explain via a recent experience.
So, I was watching the season seven dvd set of Dragonball Z yesterday. Trunks and Goten dominated the competition in the younger division of the world tournament. That didn't mean they stood a chance in the adult division of the tournament.
I'm just saying that separation is important here, not just to quell the anger of the masses, but to be fair.
Money has nothing to do with it at this point. There's a big league and a minor league. REAL gamers know what category Valve and Square fall into, similarly we know where Zynga falls. They made something that fits their target market perfectly. Such action deserves commending, but this isn't Kansas anymore.
Them being in the competition shows a lack of effort on the creators. This needs to be split between casual game devs and hardcore game devs. That's what it all comes down to.
If a hardcore game dev tries for years and fails, does that make them less than casual game dev's that have extremely good income?
I don't see it that way.
So, I was watching the season seven dvd set of Dragonball Z yesterday. Trunks and Goten dominated the competition in the younger division of the world tournament. That didn't mean they stood a chance in the adult division of the tournament.
I'm just saying that separation is important here, not just to quell the anger of the masses, but to be fair.
Money has nothing to do with it at this point. There's a big league and a minor league. REAL gamers know what category Valve and Square fall into, similarly we know where Zynga falls. They made something that fits their target market perfectly. Such action deserves commending, but this isn't Kansas anymore.
Them being in the competition shows a lack of effort on the creators. This needs to be split between casual game devs and hardcore game devs. That's what it all comes down to.
If a hardcore game dev tries for years and fails, does that make them less than casual game dev's that have extremely good income?
I don't see it that way.
My god, that's insanely accurate, except for the guy's last line. In the picture he's painting, even though the information would be available, nobody would ever CARE about what future generations think about the specific books you read. They'd care about how many points those books would have given them.Epoetker said:
Frankly, it's terrifying.
I can only hope that as this trend continues, people start rebelling against it and look for actual fantasy again, in much the same way they are now looking for "authenticity." But more likely, this complacent society won't fall until some supposedly backwater tribe or gang of thugs who couldn't give a damn about their precious "points" shows up to kill them all and take their stuff.
The problem with that is, a fair chunk of FB's userbase probably can't even figure out how to do that [http://blog.nerdstargamer.com/2010/thoughts-and-links-about-the-facebook-login-fiasco/], so the spam gets through to them.DMac the Knife said:
Uh, yes. Someone who plays video games.dogstile said:
Zynga's "games" are in fact, applications, a blatant rip off of another at that.
A "casual" gamer would play video games casualy, or stick to wii titles, the sims, what have you. But that still makes them a gamer, they play video games.
Playing Mafia Wars does not make you a gamer. At all.
No one that plays video games cares that Zynga makes popular Facebook flash games. We don't care about their business model, why they are popular, or what demographic plays them. We don't care how much people micropay to make their number higher. We don't care how easy it is for grandmaw to pick them up and play. We don't even care how good, bad, or otherwise Zynga's products are. We don't care how this impacts the future of everything. Why? Because we play video games. If Zynga ceased to exist tomorrow, I highly doubt people who play video games would even notice.
That isn't to say we aren't interested in these things intellectually, in the same way we might be interested in new treatments for cancer or the progress of peace in Iraq. However, neither the cultural significance of their development and popularity nor the means by which they achieved them make Zynga a relevant or significant player in video games. In the same way, we could be interested in the explosion of Texas Hold'Em online Casino games and their impact socially or legally, and perhaps how they ruined someones life. Or perhaps the proliferation of video trivia at bars and wings restaurants. We might even be interested in the history of "hit the monkey" banner ads. However, no video gamer would really care about any of these things, because none of these things are what any discerning individual would call a video game.
I think what it is clear that we do care about is video games. We all understand and may even be interested that flash based Facebook games are popular. Zynga's addictive flash based social competition games are undeniably games, but they are not video games, and nor is Zynga a video game developer. While I may throw a ball through a hoop while playing arcade "hoopz", I am not playing basketball. While I may drive a realistic car around a realistic track on my XBox, that does not make me a racecar driver nor does it qualify me to compete against Michael Schumacher. While Matchbox may make cars, I never hear them mentioned in the current financial recession news. While Newgrounds may let you play flash games on their site, I never hear them mentioned in the same context as Steam or Windows Live.
People, please, don't be distracted by non sequiturs. Don't be dragged into endless arguments about cultural significance or a cultured playerbase. Don't let yourself be trolled by facts that are irrelevant to the actual discussion. These are justifications to classify Zynga's games as full fledged video games, and they never will be. There is a clear distinction between games that are actual video games that we care about and games that are just games, like football, solitaire, kick the can, or even a word association thread on a forum. It's an easy stance to maintain. Just say, "I agree that is culturally significant, and at the same time wholly irrelevant to my concerns."
That isn't to say we aren't interested in these things intellectually, in the same way we might be interested in new treatments for cancer or the progress of peace in Iraq. However, neither the cultural significance of their development and popularity nor the means by which they achieved them make Zynga a relevant or significant player in video games. In the same way, we could be interested in the explosion of Texas Hold'Em online Casino games and their impact socially or legally, and perhaps how they ruined someones life. Or perhaps the proliferation of video trivia at bars and wings restaurants. We might even be interested in the history of "hit the monkey" banner ads. However, no video gamer would really care about any of these things, because none of these things are what any discerning individual would call a video game.
I think what it is clear that we do care about is video games. We all understand and may even be interested that flash based Facebook games are popular. Zynga's addictive flash based social competition games are undeniably games, but they are not video games, and nor is Zynga a video game developer. While I may throw a ball through a hoop while playing arcade "hoopz", I am not playing basketball. While I may drive a realistic car around a realistic track on my XBox, that does not make me a racecar driver nor does it qualify me to compete against Michael Schumacher. While Matchbox may make cars, I never hear them mentioned in the current financial recession news. While Newgrounds may let you play flash games on their site, I never hear them mentioned in the same context as Steam or Windows Live.
People, please, don't be distracted by non sequiturs. Don't be dragged into endless arguments about cultural significance or a cultured playerbase. Don't let yourself be trolled by facts that are irrelevant to the actual discussion. These are justifications to classify Zynga's games as full fledged video games, and they never will be. There is a clear distinction between games that are actual video games that we care about and games that are just games, like football, solitaire, kick the can, or even a word association thread on a forum. It's an easy stance to maintain. Just say, "I agree that is culturally significant, and at the same time wholly irrelevant to my concerns."
Being able to hide the game-generated spam is fine. It doesn't block my family members who are avid players from posting links and add requests for their friends, but I can ignore those.
The problem with Zynga is the blatant copyright infringement. Look at an image for Farmville and compare it to an image of Farm Town. It's a blatant ripoff.
They make their so-called free game cost you real-life money if you want to get any kind of halfway decent experience.
They come off more as scam artists than anything resembling a game company.
This isn't nerdrage over casual games, or even these new social-networking games.
If social gaming was going to be on here, I would have far rather seen the creators of FB's Castle Age take the spot. Their quests were not mindless job-tiers, but actually held a true story progression, and the descriptions told your story as you moved through a fantasy land. You recruited generals, ammassed powerful armies, gained special armor and weapons, and fought mighty dragons.
It was reasonably polished, did not get spammed with "Fill out these offers or give us tons of money if you want to progress" and most of all, it was *original*.
This company I would have been far happier seeing getting recognition than Zynga.
Zynga doing so well in the MM polls is due to the conditioning their players have to spam links and click buttons. Many also have more than one FB account for their Zynga games. (Many of my friends have 2 or 3 FB accounts to help get consumables needed for jobs without wasting their "main" player's energy, or because they don't want to add 500 strangers to the account where they discuss what's going on in their life.
So, the "true gamers" are getting one (two with Twitter) votes. The Zynga drones (for drones is truly what they are) get 3, 4, or even 5.
I played MW and FV for about 6 months. It felt like a job. More than my WoW raid grind, more than my Pokemon "gotta catch 'em all" grind, it was a job. I didn't want to play right at that moment but if I didn't blow my energy, my regen would go to waste or my short-grow crops would wither and die.
It was ridiculous, so I quit.
As far as the "difficulty" of getting into games in terms of understanding terminology to be able to play, I disagree.
Both of my kids (7 and 5) play games. Without any help or real direction my youngest at age 4 was able to run around Assassin's Creed's Masyaf and defeat most of the guards that he attacked (even in packs of two or three). My oldest at age 3 was able to kill and loot mobs in WoW and got himself up to level 4 in about half an hour. (I'm sure someone will bring up letting a 4yr old play AC, but it was my husband that let him play, and figuring that because it was in the "safe town" that our youngest would just run around for 10 minutes, get bored and go do something else.)
Most games are pretty easy to get into gameplay wise. Either through tutorials or a little trial and error, I've run across few games that I couldn't hand to a non-gamer and have them figure out the basics in a short period of time.
As for the cost, Zynga's Godfather Points and FarmCash scams easily cost as much for the dedicated player as a real game.
Zynga themselves are doing nothing for the game industry. There are many more free and/or inexpensive online games for new gamers to sink their teeth into. And I have yet to see a single Zynga fan say "Mafia Wars really turned me onto gaming in general."
They are doing nothing for the industry except skewing numbers in polls like these and propagating our culture's current mentality that "the cheap and tawdry is better than the innovative and artistic" that is slowly destroying every other form of entertainment.
The problem with Zynga is the blatant copyright infringement. Look at an image for Farmville and compare it to an image of Farm Town. It's a blatant ripoff.
They make their so-called free game cost you real-life money if you want to get any kind of halfway decent experience.
They come off more as scam artists than anything resembling a game company.
This isn't nerdrage over casual games, or even these new social-networking games.
If social gaming was going to be on here, I would have far rather seen the creators of FB's Castle Age take the spot. Their quests were not mindless job-tiers, but actually held a true story progression, and the descriptions told your story as you moved through a fantasy land. You recruited generals, ammassed powerful armies, gained special armor and weapons, and fought mighty dragons.
It was reasonably polished, did not get spammed with "Fill out these offers or give us tons of money if you want to progress" and most of all, it was *original*.
This company I would have been far happier seeing getting recognition than Zynga.
Zynga doing so well in the MM polls is due to the conditioning their players have to spam links and click buttons. Many also have more than one FB account for their Zynga games. (Many of my friends have 2 or 3 FB accounts to help get consumables needed for jobs without wasting their "main" player's energy, or because they don't want to add 500 strangers to the account where they discuss what's going on in their life.
So, the "true gamers" are getting one (two with Twitter) votes. The Zynga drones (for drones is truly what they are) get 3, 4, or even 5.
I played MW and FV for about 6 months. It felt like a job. More than my WoW raid grind, more than my Pokemon "gotta catch 'em all" grind, it was a job. I didn't want to play right at that moment but if I didn't blow my energy, my regen would go to waste or my short-grow crops would wither and die.
It was ridiculous, so I quit.
As far as the "difficulty" of getting into games in terms of understanding terminology to be able to play, I disagree.
Both of my kids (7 and 5) play games. Without any help or real direction my youngest at age 4 was able to run around Assassin's Creed's Masyaf and defeat most of the guards that he attacked (even in packs of two or three). My oldest at age 3 was able to kill and loot mobs in WoW and got himself up to level 4 in about half an hour. (I'm sure someone will bring up letting a 4yr old play AC, but it was my husband that let him play, and figuring that because it was in the "safe town" that our youngest would just run around for 10 minutes, get bored and go do something else.)
Most games are pretty easy to get into gameplay wise. Either through tutorials or a little trial and error, I've run across few games that I couldn't hand to a non-gamer and have them figure out the basics in a short period of time.
As for the cost, Zynga's Godfather Points and FarmCash scams easily cost as much for the dedicated player as a real game.
Zynga themselves are doing nothing for the game industry. There are many more free and/or inexpensive online games for new gamers to sink their teeth into. And I have yet to see a single Zynga fan say "Mafia Wars really turned me onto gaming in general."
They are doing nothing for the industry except skewing numbers in polls like these and propagating our culture's current mentality that "the cheap and tawdry is better than the innovative and artistic" that is slowly destroying every other form of entertainment.
My wife, and her friends have played farmville, yoville, cafe world for many months. It's been an immense frustration to me, but not because I class myself as an 'elite gamer' or that I feel a facebook game by it's very existance can't qualify as entertainment...
My main area of frustration is that there is no GOAL to these games. They are repetitive, unchallenging and time-consuming. They are also designed with only one purpose - making as much money for the developers as possible. The cost of success in these *basic* games is so excessive it's unethical.
I have since introduced my wife to the Sims 3 and she has stopped playing the Zynga games. While finding it tricky to begin with has got used to the control mechanism (which is similar to Zynga games really) and has so far enjoyed creating a home, life, job and romance! Having started playing the game she has realised how limiting these other games were.
In addition to this, my eight year old daughter thoroughly enjoyed playing Portal. My six year old son is totally addicted to Little Big Planet. Both have enjoyed EyePet and eyetoy games as well as all the wii sports games. To say that Zynga games are more accessible and thus appeal to casual gamers is just lazy.
It was mentioned somewhere (I've read a lot about this Zynga thing tonight...!) that to liken these games to the mainstream console games is mimicking the popularity of McDonalds versus a fillet steak meal. Sure the chemicals in the fast food will keep you coming back, but if you want to really enjoy food you should look for that perfect cut of meat cooked in that ideal source (sic).
My main area of frustration is that there is no GOAL to these games. They are repetitive, unchallenging and time-consuming. They are also designed with only one purpose - making as much money for the developers as possible. The cost of success in these *basic* games is so excessive it's unethical.
I have since introduced my wife to the Sims 3 and she has stopped playing the Zynga games. While finding it tricky to begin with has got used to the control mechanism (which is similar to Zynga games really) and has so far enjoyed creating a home, life, job and romance! Having started playing the game she has realised how limiting these other games were.
In addition to this, my eight year old daughter thoroughly enjoyed playing Portal. My six year old son is totally addicted to Little Big Planet. Both have enjoyed EyePet and eyetoy games as well as all the wii sports games. To say that Zynga games are more accessible and thus appeal to casual gamers is just lazy.
It was mentioned somewhere (I've read a lot about this Zynga thing tonight...!) that to liken these games to the mainstream console games is mimicking the popularity of McDonalds versus a fillet steak meal. Sure the chemicals in the fast food will keep you coming back, but if you want to really enjoy food you should look for that perfect cut of meat cooked in that ideal source (sic).
edit: Catherine's post above almost identically mimics and highlights what I was trying to say far better than I could!Catherine Lyons said:
Well, because i am a regular reader and admirer of Shamus, i can give him the benefit of the doubt that he gave thought to this article. Like i said, he didn't say anything untrue, but his point would have been better made by arguing for the success of Plants vs. Zombies by PopCap, a game that earned its success by being simple, fun, and accessible, rather than for the success of Zynga, whose games are only well-known because of their presence on facebook and their aggressive, shady, business techniques.VoyagerI said:
You, sir, had the perfect response to our shared frustration. You introduced them to the better casual games that they would have noticed otherwise.junkmanuk said:
Really, if Farmville was able to introduce its players to other games in the "casual" genre, i wouldn't mind as much as i do, but if the players ever leave their farm unattended for too long real-time, they're punished. It strangles the players, preventing them from moving on to other games if they want to be successful.
Insidious, i say.